What is wrong with the Lamborghini Murcielago in this game?

[kd283]

You should drive the Lotus Elise at the Top Gear-special events.

You will have the laugh of your life....a car, well know for its unbelievable grip and drivability, let you have the drift challenge of your life.

it is a joke, but it is on economy tyres in that challange.

 

[niky]

The mechanic took the same car for a test drive, came back white and said it was the scariest thing he had ever driven.

Reminds me of a common issue we have here... where secondhand Japanese performance cars are delivered on container ships wearing snow tires... narrow ones, at that. An acquaintance almost killed himself driving in a straight line... in... of all things... a Civic Type R.

Snow tires in humid tropical weather, in the rain... not a good combination.

Almost as much fun was another acquaintance's Silvia K's turbo... also on the tires it was imported in on... some really low-grip passenger car tires... very squirrely and edgy, even in the dry. Test drove it for him and suggested a few changes... fix the brakes, replace the worn out rear lowering springs and shocks... and dump the tires as soon as possible.

Really wish PD would sim the drivers control options in the ferraris and other cars that had adjustable driving aids, instead of the generic gt options of 0-10 and etc.

The problem is it's difficult to simulate all the different types of traction control, stability control and dynamic yaw control systems out there within just one video game.

These cars have entire computers dedicated to controlling the fuzzy logic of these driver aids... to model all such within what is, in the end, a mere video game, would be an exercise in frustration.

Agree with the rest of your post, though.

 

[Mike712]

Yeah I have mine set on max, I get massive arm pump the day after playing for a few hours Still it is not the same as driving a real car, in a real car all your senses work together to feel exactly what the car is doing, I'd love to try an x-sim setup and I'd love it if something like this existed for the PS3.

The pedals are a big thing to, I can't wait to upgrade because my GT Pro pedals are far too soft and I find myself pressing them much more than I do in a real car but then GT has always let you do this and get away with it so now that I am getting into more realistic sims I need to train myself to not press them so hard. I think upgrading to a new setup might help kick bad habits, I hope.

You should try to get hold of a G25/G27, the pedals have allot of resistance and the force feedback is really strong and accurate, so strong in fact that I had to take a break for a day because I was getting blisters from the wheel lol, yeh and driving with the FF on high can be a real workout with some cars.

 

[7HO]

I was planning on buying a Fanatec setup until I read the news about the Thrustmaster, now I'm thinking of holding off until we know more details.

 

[keitshi]

I bought the murcielago and did some testing on a regular track and on toscana with the track creator. It seems that the reason for the weird handling in the special event is due to the forced skid recovery force.

I drove the murcielago on toscana with skid recovery off and then on. There is a big difference in handling. With skid recovery force on, the car will start sliding and oversteering in bizarre circumstances sometimes, as if the recovery force turned the car into the slide. Same on a regular track. In toscana this seems more apparent because of the big elevation changes in corners.

So i dont think there is anything wrong with the physics, just with the driving aid. They should have not forced it in the event. I think op and others who disagreed with him were both right. The murcielago is not handling like it should on the special event, but without the aid its drives fine.

One other thing i noticed is that the lights dont show properly on uphills, like the beams would be cut. Seems as if the lights are pointing horizontally regardless of the cars angle. That allso makes the special event a bit tough.

 

[Zonda R]

Oh my god, the Elise. You can't touch the throttle while the wheels are turned without stepping out.

But thanks for expressing my outrage, Oversteerin'. When I was doing the challenge I kept saying "Show me a Murci that handles like this in real life" out loud in frustration.

Exactly the same, I take it you are referring to the Toscana special event. That took me a lot of attempts to win that. No 4WD, high downforce supercar would handle like that surely...

 

[IROC89CAMARO]

Is all guys that get to test drive Exotic Sports cars an asshole like this guy?

 

[shaundesjardins]

You'd think that people that drive exotic cars would have better things to do than to be on here.
You know like being out DRIVING EXOTIC CARS!

 

[Oversteerin']

This is where you lose some credibility. I'm not a kid and I have also had the pleasure of driving a wide variety of cars including some exotics mostly through employment. What I have also done that you have not is fit a set of crappy, narrow, old hard tyres to a performance car to deliver it to a mechanic and I can tell you unless you have done this no amount of experience driving the car with good tyres can prepare you for it. The mechanic took the same car for a test drive, came back white and said it was the scariest thing he had ever driven.

While the Elise in Top Gear was worse than I'd expect even with those tyres I have never driven one to the limit (I have driven one excitedly but it was a customers and on public road) and I can imagine a real one would handle similar to that with terrible narrow tyres when pushed hard. Try this in the Top Gear challenge, take off with moderate throttle, short shift it and take corners slow, suddenly it handles a lot more reasonably. My verdict is the comfort hard tyres are terrible.

One more thing to consider is your wheel set up and how you drive. One thing I have noticed when driving high powered cars in the game is I need to make a effort to try to drive them realistically, because my pedals are nothing like a real car and because there are no g forces I often find myself driving far more spirited than I would in a real car. It's a lot harder to feel the car in the game and in real life I'd never get away with the amount of throttle I use in game often in some of the real cars I have driven.

FWIW I haven't had enough playing time with the cars in question to give a thorough assessment so I'm not defending their physics absolutely and I will say that the physics in the game do leave a little to be desired in general, especially the brakes but from what I have experienced I think the premium car physics are the best from any GT title in the series.

The point I'm trying to make is even if you do really have as much experience as you claim you obviously have very little experience with terrible tyres and definitely have no experience with terrible tyres on a performance vehicle so whatever experience you do have doesn't count for much when we are discussing a performance car on terrible tyres.

C'mon, man, really? Look, I have never claimed to be a pro race driver, nor have I claimed to have more automotive experience than any other human being alive today. What I have said is that I have driven a wide range of high performance cars, from Ferraris and Lambos to Porsches and others (both on and off track), and have been tracking my own personal cars for the last decade or so, and as such, I think I am in a better position to comment about some of this game's inaccuracies with respect to certain cars than a bunch of kids whose experience consists solely of playing Gran Turismo - that's all.

As far as tires are concerned, do you really think that in all these years that I've never run a set of cheap tires past their prime? Really? Dude... I've run tires down to the cord on more than one occasion, including garbage sumitomo all-seasons priced at $40/tire on my DD (cheapy tire to save my r-comps in between track days), and while I wouldn't recommend hard driving on them (especially when they are that worn down) they still have FAR more adhesion that the tires in that lotus challenge, and no matter how you cut it, that's just not realistic.

Also, please keep in mind that the tires in the lotus challenge, while they may be econo tires (and I'm sure that's the point of the challenge), they are NEW tires! They are not old, bald, worn out tires that have no business being on a performance car, so please, let's just stop arguing about this nonsense.

 

[Oversteerin']

Sweet car . Are you the stig by any chance? Seeing a list of cars you have driven .

But i do wonder, are not all modern lambos and ferraris and etc heavily electronically controlled and handled depending on what preset setting you set in the car, and that CST option in the ferrai's lest in the 599 and a few others just stands for "commence suicide training" cause turning off all aids in most of these modern sports cars is just that suicide unless you are michael schumacher or someone like that.

And what is the first thing most of us do? turn off asm, and other driving aids in the options and then take the cars out and end up wrecking the car if it was real life and possibly killing ourselves, cause we are pushing the cars at the extreme limits.

Really wish PD would sim the drivers control options in the ferraris and other cars that had adjustable driving aids, instead of the generic gt options of 0-10 and etc.

The CST switch can be a doozy in the hands of a novice driver, for sure, but it's not a hard car to drive with the aids turned off if you know what you're doing. I myself have disabled CST and had the tail out on more than one occasion during low speed corners, but I don't have the balls to pull those shenanigans in fast corners (not on the street, at least ). Either way, that's not what's wrong with the murci in the game.

 

[Oversteerin']

You'd think that people that drive exotic cars would have better things to do than to be on here.
You know like being out DRIVING EXOTIC CARS!

Lol, driving the cars isn't a daily affair, man. I wish it was, but I can't complain...

 

[Mike712]

The CST switch can be a doozy in the hands of a novice driver, for sure, but it's not a hard car to drive with the aids turned off if you know what you're doing. I myself have disabled CST and had the tail out on more than one occasion during low speed corners, but I don't have the balls to pull those shenanigans in fast corners (not on the street, at least ). Either way, that's not what's wrong with the murci in the game.

I've driven and 599 but they wouldn't let me turn any of the aids off and I got told off when I tried to heel toe to get the back end to shift.

 

[Fastlap]

Ok, I really have to back up Oversteerin´ here, as I have encountered a similar problem with another car that might be related.

I have driven a MKIV R32 for two years irl, and have taken it lots of times to the Nordschleife and been driving on the limit pretty regularly. Of course I was looking forward to drive the car in GT5 since I knew that it was in there.

Then I realized it was a standard car, but what can you do. This is not the place for that discussion.

The problem with standard cars is that you have to wait for days for them to show up in the used car section. I think this solution is not ideal to say the least.

Well a couple of days ago I saw it and bought it. First thing I did (after changing the oil) is drive it completely stock on the tgtt. First thing I noticed is that the sound is horrible. The R32 has a very distinct exhaust note that is very nice, and the car in the game could not have been further away from that. Well, GT has never been famous for great engine sounds, so I kinda expected that.

Optics were ok for a standard car, not really 2010 graphics but what the hell.

Now the important part. The car oversteered like crazy of the throttle and during braking. Even at moderate speeds (>100 km/h) the rear end started to step out. This is absolutely not how the real life car behaves.

I have driven the car on the track very often (irl) and it was absolutely stable. You could only get the rear end to step out by using the handbrake or reall flicking it into a corner (like a scandinavian flick). I have never ever experienced this tendency to oversteer.

This seems to effect only a handful of cars though. Most cars I have driven in the game are absolutely fine. Maybe its a bug? I don´t know. But I can definately say that the feeling of the R32 ingame is very different from the one in real life.

Just my two cents.

 

[skywolf23]

Yea i am just saying the most of the time people complain because they turn stuff off mod the hell out of the car and wonder why it is exactly it handles like garbage.

The lambo in that challenge has its own issues, one it seems one aid is on by default which sporks the cars handling entirely.

I mean that challenge is handful the way that car handles period. Think i missed 2nd by a hair when i lost the car on the last leg and was happy to have bronze and not been back since.

Did you take that r32 and get the body and engine rebuilt? i mean it is a used car see if that makes any difference.

 

[psavi]

I bought the murcielago and did some testing on a regular track and on toscana with the track creator. It seems that the reason for the weird handling in the special event is due to the forced skid recovery force.

I drove the murcielago on toscana with skid recovery off and then on. There is a big difference in handling. With skid recovery force on, the car will start sliding and oversteering in bizarre circumstances sometimes, as if the recovery force turned the car into the slide. Same on a regular track. In toscana this seems more apparent because of the big elevation changes in corners.

So i dont think there is anything wrong with the physics, just with the driving aid. They should have not forced it in the event. I think op and others who disagreed with him were both right. The murcielago is not handling like it should on the special event, but without the aid its drives fine.

One other thing i noticed is that the lights dont show properly on uphills, like the beams would be cut. Seems as if the lights are pointing horizontally regardless of the cars angle. That allso makes the special event a bit tough.

Maybe you should all listen to this guy. I sense some wisdom on his words. That and the fact the guy is from Finland, maybe the land with the bigger good-driver-per-capita in the world.

 

[7HO]

C'mon, man, really? Look, I have never claimed to be a pro race driver, nor have I claimed to have more automotive experience than any other human being alive today. What I have said is that I have driven a wide range of high performance cars, from Ferraris and Lambos to Porsches and others(both on and off track), and have been tracking my own personal cars for the last decade or so, and as such, I think I am in a better position to comment about some of this game's inaccuracies with respect to certain cars than a bunch of kids whose experience consist of playing Gran Turismo - that's all.

As far as tires are concerned, do you really think that in all these years that I've never run a set of cheap tires past their prime? Really? Man, I've run tires down to the cord on more than one occasion, including garbage sumitomo all-seasons priced at $40/tire on my DD (cheapy tire to save my r-comps in between track days), and while I wouldn't recommend hard driving on them (especially when they are that worn down) they still have FAR more adhesion that the tires in that lotus challenge, and no matter how you cut it, that's just not realistic.

Also, please keep in mind that the tires in the lotus challenge, while they may be econo tires (and I'm sure that's the point of the challenge), they are NEW tires! They are not old, bald, worn out tires that have no business being on a performance car, so please, let's just stop arguing about this nonsense.

I've also worn out good tyre right down to the wire, I stripped the paint off half one side of my car doing it once and I can tell you a good wide tyre worn all the way down still offers more grip than a cheap narrow tyre. The thing you are missing is how you are driving in that challenge, do it again (I just did and got gold again just for the hell of it) but this time slow down to the same speeds you would drive on the street, I'm sure you will find the car responds much better.

The thing that is exaggerating the issue is it is a hard challenge and the other cars are going real fast with ease, the challenge is forcing you to drive right at the limit of the tyres performance and then some. If anything it is an unrealistic challenge because you would never drive that hard in real life on those tyres, you wouldn't be allowed to because their speed rating wouldn't pass scruitineering but that is what makes it so fun. What isn't fun is when you go too far because just like skinny tyres in real life when you do there is little chance of recovery.

 

[7HO]

Then I realized it was a standard car, but what can you do. This is not the place for that discussion.

Actually in this conversation it can't be ignored, the physics on standard cars is not realistic and not comparable to the premiums. I haven't driven a standard car in the game that handles realistically. The '71 Charger SuperBee is a prime example, almost no body roll, you can throw it into a corner as hard as you like and power oversteer your way through it, it just takes everything you throw at it with ease and never bites you, it is nothing like the real thing.

 

[Oversteerin']

I've also worn out good tyre right down to the wire, I stripped the paint off half one side of my car doing it once and I can tell you a good wide tyre worn all the way down still offers more grip than a cheap narrow tyre. The thing you are missing is how you are driving in that challenge, do it again (I just did and got gold again just for the hell of it) but this time slow down to the same speeds you would drive on the street, I'm sure you will find the car responds much better.

The thing that is exaggerating the issue is it is a hard challenge and the other cars are going real fast with ease, the challenge is forcing you to drive right at the limit of the tyres performance and then some. If anything it is an unrealistic challenge because you would never drive that hard in real life on those tyres, you wouldn't be allowed to because their speed rating wouldn't pass scruitineering but that is what makes it so fun. What isn't fun is when you go too far because just like skinny tyres in real life when you do there is little chance of recovery.

I already beat the challenge a while ago - that was never the problem. While I understand what you are saying, I think the issue here is that the tire dynamics in this game are just a little wonky, and you just don't see it because you keep wanting to equate the tires in this challenge to much worse ones in real life. The tires in this challenge are NOT bald, they are brand new. They are also NOT narrower than factory spec. They are simply a hard compound econo tire, and they should not behave the way they do in this game. Period. Anyway, I've gotta get back to work now, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Take it easy...

 

[skywolf23]

I've driven and 599 but they wouldn't let me turn any of the aids off and I got told off when I tried to heel toe to get the back end to shift.

Buy the car then you could turn aids off and kill yourself any way you wish.

How did Mr. Clarkson put it? I think it went like.

Driving a Ferrari 599 is like having a relationship with an axe murderer, you do not know when they kill you, but they will kill you.

So no if someone came in to test one out off the street, or was just driving a buddies car or whatever yea i would not let them turn aids off just to see how sideways you could get it .

 

[yeldar2097]

At least with the ChromeLine Murcielago you can take some comfort in the fact that the AI crashes it to hell if you 'Demo' it from your garage. Never got to drive the thing due to YLOD but all of a sudden the crazy AI crashing my shiny new car all makes much more sense

 

[CelestialVoyage]

Tuscomo Tarmac challenge in the Grand Tour. My god. I'm going to have fun fixing out this bad boy.

The Top Gear challenge with the Lotus was downright hilarious. I wasn't expecting this. At all.

 

[casual]

What a whopper of a tale I have? What do you want, pictures of our cars? Sure, I could post up various photos I've taken when I've had the cars out, but what's the point? You'll probably just make some obnoxious comment about how I probably just took pictures at a local car show.

No, I am not going to play that game. You don't want to believe me, fine. I couldn't care less what some jealous kid on the internet thinks about my credibility. Oh, and why exactly did you attach a link to an internet speed check site in your reference to a forum thread that my "whopper story" would be a good fit in?

You have a right complex, thats for sure. I cant believe you are so immature that you waggle it about so much. That is NOT very mature of you!

 

[VcRpPT94]

I hated driving the murcielago in the special event , but the elise was quite fun...

 

[Mike712]

Buy the car then you could turn aids off and kill yourself any way you wish.

How did Mr. Clarkson put it? I think it went like.

Driving a Ferrari 599 is like having a relationship with an axe murderer, you do not know when they kill you, but they will kill you.

So no if someone came in to test one out off the street, or was just driving a buddies car or whatever yea i would not let them turn aids off just to see how sideways you could get it .

I can tell you one thing even with all the driving aids on it was better than sex, the acceleration you get from the V12 pulled from the Enzo is brutal, I've been in and driven some quick cars before but the 599 is mind blowing, my dad drove it too, he liked it so much he's thinking of getting one, don't think he'll let me drive it though, not after what I did to his poor mitsubishi

It's a far more visceral experience than the Lambo, Ferrari's are drivers cars, lambos are posers cars.

 

[Oversteerin']

You have a right complex, thats for sure. I cant believe you are so immature that you waggle it about so much. That is NOT very mature of you!

You're right, it's immature to make light of the fact that it's ridiculous for a bunch of kids who've never driven a car to tell someone who has how it drives.

You might want to rethink that one, buddy. Regardless, I think it's you who is immature, my friend, for coming into a thread and stirring the pot on something that has already been settled. Have a nice day, and please, spend the rest of it doing something other than trying to irritate people. 👍

 

[RedSuinit]

You're right, it's immature to make light of the fact that it's ridiculous for a bunch of kids who've never driven a car to tell someone who has how it drives.

You might want to rethink that one, buddy. Regardless, I think it's you who is immature, my friend, for coming into a thread and stirring the pot on something that has already been settled. Have a nice day, and please, spend the rest of it doing something other than trying to irritate people. 👍

I think he was being sarcastic. I think he was playing on words turning "tale" into "tail", and trying to make a joke. It was just a really bad joke.

 

[Oversteerin']

^Sounded like he was trying to get a rise out of me, but who knows... Doesn't really matter, I suppose. Anyway, I came home a little early and am going to try to get a couple races in real quick before doing the dishes (promised the wife they'd be done when she got home, lol). Later...

 

[skywolf23]

I can tell you one thing even with all the driving aids on it was better than sex, the acceleration you get from the V12 pulled from the Enzo is brutal, I've been in and driven some quick cars before but the 599 is mind blowing, my dad drove it too, he liked it so much he's thinking of getting one, don't think he'll let me drive it though, not after what I did to his poor mitsubishi

It's a far more visceral experience than the Lambo, Ferrari's are drivers cars, lambos are posers cars.

Yea that beast of a enzo engine is why the thing is so skittish with the CST option on. I love the car it is a gorgeous piece of art if you ask me one of the best looking ferrari's out there. Italia is gorgeous also but the 599 is so classic looking.

Still if the stig could not keep a CST enabled 599 on the tg track i sure would make sure you got a wide open area with lots of run off preforably surrounded by sand to dig the car in when things go wrong, cause they almost certainly will.

Dunno if i would go sofar as to call lambos posers, i just think the newer lambos all look the same and do not look that great to begin with. Fast cars no doubt but lost something when they go bought out and had germans designing them, not that germans do not make epic cars, but lambo was more lambo before the take over.

 

[Tommy_861]

Yea that beast of a enzo engine is why the thing is so skittish with the CST option on. I love the car it is a gorgeous piece of art if you ask me one of the best looking ferrari's out there. Italia is gorgeous also but the 599 is so classic looking.

Still if the stig could not keep a CST enabled 599 on the tg track i sure would make sure you got a wide open area with lots of run off preforably surrounded by sand to dig the car in when things go wrong, cause they almost certainly will.

Dunno if i would go sofar as to call lambos posers, i just think the newer lambos all look the same and do not look that great to begin with. Fast cars no doubt but lost something when they go bought out and had germans designing them, not that germans do not make epic cars, but lambo was more lambo before the take over.

While they are owned by Audi, germans are not designing them, they are still being put together in the same place by the same folks, and designed in the same way, just with some German influence (like how they all are AWD now).

 

[FaLLeNAn9eL]

While they are owned by Audi, germans are not designing them, they are still being put together in the same place by the same folks, and designed in the same way, just with some German influence (like how they all are AWD now).

Explains why the windshield wipers on the Lambo turn themselves on.