Wheel size and removal of rear wing

[Tangofry]

Sorry if this has been answered already but if you install bigger wheels or remove rear wing does in affect performance in any way?

 

[Mirado_7]

I don't know about wings, but wheels no. But bigger wheels will prevent you from entering a lobby that is tuning prohibited.

 

[DolHaus]

Removal of the wing will reduce rear downforce a bit, they don't generate much anyway so the effects are fairly negligible. Wheels are purely visual, changing them does nothing to performance (the outside circumference remains the same)

 

[Tangofry]

Brilliant, thanks guys. I've been attempting the rx7 seasonal and just fitted the 2nd size wheels on. Looks sweet! Doesn't seem to have slowed me down

 

[et_]

bigger wheels affects the gearbox, bigger wheels require higher "final gear" value. atleast in patch 1.05 it did.
and I do feel that the car becomes a bit more "direct", it responds to steering a bit faster, but grip is'nt really higher anyway. so it's not really faster either...

I've not felt any difference between standard wing and no wing, but it might be there, who knows?
However a custom or generic wing makes a huge difference, it gives you better grip but slower straight line performance.
Standard or no wing is usually the fastest way to go with low powered cars, but there are circumstances where a rear wing really helps, namely high powered rear wheel drives, and especially on twisty tracks.

 

[DolHaus]

bigger wheels affects the gearbox, bigger wheels require higher "final gear" value. atleast in patch 1.05 it did.
and I do feel that the car becomes a bit more "direct", it responds to steering a bit faster, but grip is'nt really higher anyway. so it's not really faster either...

What is your evidence for this? I've never noticed a change in feel or speed when different wheels are fitted. The outside circumference and mass of the wheel stays the same so there should be no change in gearing, I'm 99% sure its just a visual skin change but if you have evidence to the contrary then I'm curious to see it.

 

[et_]

I dont have any direct evidence to show you, I just know that after tuning a gearbox for a specific track, it maxed out at 6'gear @7000rpm, and after fitting +1" wheels, it maxed out @ just 6600rpm at the end of the straight.
and another time when I used a tune of a friend, I did'nt fit bigger wheels, and actually hit the rev' limiter! (and he knows how to drive fast, and he knows how to tune a gearbox properly, so its not that.)

edit, and if you recall, there was a bug in patch 1.03 and earlier where you'd always get 4 equally wide tyres, and that became a problem on RUF's etc because they have wider rear tyres, and it was well known that the cars became almost undriveable because of it, so its not just visual.

 

[JHB434]

Not sure about the wing as I found on the Nissan GTR after removing the wing, there was still wing settings in the menu.....hmmm......

 

[KinLM]

I dont have any direct evidence to show you, I just know that after tuning a gearbox for a specific track, it maxed out at 6'gear @7000rpm, and after fitting +1" wheels, it maxed out @ just 6600rpm at the end of the straight.
and another time when I used a tune of a friend, I did'nt fit bigger wheels, and actually hit the rev' limiter! (and he knows how to drive fast, and he knows how to tune a gearbox properly, so its not that.)

edit, and if you recall, there was a bug in patch 1.03 and earlier where you'd always get 4 equally wide tyres, and that became a problem on RUF's etc because they have wider rear tyres, and it was well known that the cars became almost undriveable because of it, so its not just visual.

I really don't want to come across as rude, but your logic is greatly flawed my friend. Not just in this thread, but in the SRF one as well.

Don't be mad at me, I know I sound like a 🤬 probably. But it might be a good idea to back up your "ideas" with more factual evidence before you post them here.

If your car maxed out at 7000 RPM and then at 6600 RPM, something is greatly greatly wrong with the physics.

 

[Awong124]

I dont have any direct evidence to show you, I just know that after tuning a gearbox for a specific track, it maxed out at 6'gear @7000rpm, and after fitting +1" wheels, it maxed out @ just 6600rpm at the end of the straight.
and another time when I used a tune of a friend, I did'nt fit bigger wheels, and actually hit the rev' limiter! (and he knows how to drive fast, and he knows how to tune a gearbox properly, so its not that.)

edit, and if you recall, there was a bug in patch 1.03 and earlier where you'd always get 4 equally wide tyres, and that became a problem on RUF's etc because they have wider rear tyres, and it was well known that the cars became almost undriveable because of it, so its not just visual.

I noticed that cars have different top speeds with different tires. Racing softs will have a higher top speed than sport softs, for example. I don't know why PD did this, it doesn't really make any sense. Could you have switched tires as well as wheels when you noticed the different top speeds?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I noticed that cars have different top speeds with different tires. Racing softs will have a higher top speed than sport softs, for example. I don't know why PD did this, it doesn't really make any sense. Could you have switched tires as well as wheels when you noticed the different top speeds?

How much higher top speed? And are you referring to all out top speed or top speed on a circuit?

 

[et_]

Not sure about the wing as I found on the Nissan GTR after removing the wing, there was still wing settings in the menu.....hmmm......

Maybe thats why I did'nt feel any difference

I really don't want to come across as rude, but your logic is greatly flawed my friend. Not just in this thread, but in the SRF one as well.

Don't be mad at me, I know I sound like a 🤬 probably. But it might be a good idea to back up your "ideas" with more factual evidence before you post them here.

If your car maxed out at 7000 RPM and then at 6600 RPM, something is greatly greatly wrong with the physics.

Do I seriously need more? I know my idea of the SRF is unorthodox, and I dont seriously believe it myself, I'm just saying that it might be this way. Thats all.

In this instance however, I think I have enough evidence, go try it yourself.

And why is the physics flawed? appears to me thats a perfectly natural side effect of changing wheel size. Here is an example:

Lets say your car maxes out at 200kmh, the wheels are 205/45-R17 (circumference is 199.3cm), and the differential (final gear) has a gear ratio of 3.5:1, and the ratio of 6'th gear is 1:1, that means the engine is revving at 5853rpm

Now lets say you slap on a pair of 245/35-R19 (mind you, that is just following standard recommendations, the wheel diameter is just 1.9 cm taller, I guarantee you wouldn't notice), the circumference is now 205.5cm. With the same differential, same gearbox, at the same speed (200kmh) your engine is revving at 5653rpm

Formula:
km/h ÷0,0006 =cm/min
cm/min ÷wheel circumference (cm)= wheel rotations/minute
wheel revs/minute * differential gearing = engine revs/minute

To make it simple: 1cm taller wheel makes for roughly 50rpm less/100kmh (assuming total gear ratio of 6'th and final gear combined is 3,5:1

Meaning a 3cm taller tire (still not that noticeable) at 300kmh (186.4mph) drops the revs by 450rpm.

Not to be rude or anything, but maybe you should go back to school.

 

[DolHaus]

Only the diameter of the rim changes, not the tyre, it just runs a lower profile tyre to fit a larger rim.
Lets say the car has a wheel diameter of 18" from the top of the tyre to the ground, it has a 15" stock rim and 3" of tyre side wall. When you select +2" rim size the rim becomes 17" but now has a tyre wall of 1", the overall diameter of the wheel is still 18" and therefore the wheel spins at the same rate as before.
If viewed as a single object (rim + tyre) the circumference is identical whether you have stock wheels or +2".
I will test this and check for myself but I think you are confusing real life logic with how its done within the game.

 

[et_]

Only the diameter of the rim changes, not the tyre, it just runs a lower profile tyre to fit a larger rim.
Lets say the car has a wheel diameter of 18" from the top of the tyre to the ground, it has a 15" stock rim and 3" of tyre side wall. When you select +2" rim size the rim becomes 17" but now has a tyre wall of 1", the overall diameter of the wheel is still 18" and therefore the wheel spins at the same rate as before.
If viewed as a single object (rim + tyre) the circumference is identical whether you have stock wheels or +2".
I will test this and check for myself but I think you are confusing real life logic with how its done within the game.

Yes, thats the idea, but IRL, thats never going to happen, it will always differ to some degree.
try naming 2 different tyre sizes that has the same circumference.
In addition, the difference between a new tyre and a worn out one is about 1,5-2cm in diameter.

 

[KinLM]

Maybe thats why I did'nt feel any difference

Do I seriously need more? I know my idea of the SRF is unorthodox, and I dont seriously believe it myself, I'm just saying that it might be this way. Thats all.

In this instance however, I think I have enough evidence, go try it yourself.

And why is the physics flawed? appears to me thats a perfectly natural side effect of changing wheel size. Here is an example:

Lets say your car maxes out at 200kmh, the wheels are 205/45-R17 (circumference is 199.3cm), and the differential (final gear) has a gear ratio of 3.5:1, and the ratio of 6'th gear is 1:1, that means the engine is revving at 5853rpm

Now lets say you slap on a pair of 245/35-R19 (mind you, that is just following standard recommendations, the wheel diameter is just 1.9 cm taller, I guarantee you wouldn't notice), the circumference is now 205.5cm. With the same differential, same gearbox, at the same speed (200kmh) your engine is revving at 5653rpm

Formula:
km/h ÷0,0006 =cm/min
cm/min ÷wheel circumference (cm)= wheel rotations/minute
wheel revs/minute * differential gearing = engine revs/minute

To make it simple: 1cm taller wheel makes for roughly 50rpm less/100kmh (assuming total gear ratio of 6'th and final gear combined is 3,5:1

Meaning a 3cm taller tire (still not that noticeable) at 300kmh (186.4mph) drops the revs by 450rpm.

Not to be rude or anything, but maybe you should go back to school.

Nowhere did I say your logic is flawed (and I still AM in school, but nice try at talking to me in a condescending way)

I'm saying that you have no EVIDENCE that the tire size actually increases. Sure it would be hard to see. But that's what we need- evidence that the tire size actually changes.

Is that clear enough? Or do you need new glasses haha I'm kidding.

 

[Awong124]

How much higher top speed? And are you referring to all out top speed or top speed on a circuit?

All out top speed. Generally the difference is about maybe 2%-3% between racing and sport tires. Try it yourself at SSRX.

 

[et_]

Nowhere did I say your logic is flawed (and I still AM in school, but nice try at talking to me in a condescending way)

I'm saying that you have no EVIDENCE that the tire size actually increases. Sure it would be hard to see. But that's what we need- evidence that the tire size actually changes.

Is that clear enough? Or do you need new glasses haha I'm kidding.

Well, I have to apologize here, I took out my Supra RZ to try this and there was no difference at all in speed/rpm when changing rims. So sorry for that, but fact is it was a difference in patch 1.05. or 1.04, dont remember wich one.
also I didnt mean to sound condescending

@Awong124 : tried Racing soft aswell, and even tho the top speed was about the same, the rpm was dropped from 7300 to 6900!

 

[fewzo]

Has the wheel glitch been fixed? earlier changing wheels took away the front and rear width differance and made cars with different width wheels, like the ruf, all the same width and very slippery! I heard nothing about this being fixed, but hope it has!

 

[et_]

Has the wheel glitch been fixed? earlier changing wheels took away the front and rear width differance and made cars with different width wheels, like the ruf, all the same width and very slippery! I heard nothing about this being fixed, but hope it has!

Yes, that is fixed now with patch 1.4 I think..

 

[Intronium]

Has the wheel glitch been fixed? earlier changing wheels took away the front and rear width differance and made cars with different width wheels, like the ruf, all the same width and very slippery! I heard nothing about this being fixed, but hope it has!

Yea it was fixed a while ago.

Tree'd dammit.

 

[ALB123]

What is this stuff about Ruf wheels? Different sizes? Isn't that common? The countach IRL comes with like 225's in the front and 345's in the rear. Are you saying that in Gran Turismo the game uses 4 tires with exactly the same size? Except for the Ruf? Maybe someone can explain what's going on, for me... hah! Thanks!

 

[et_]

What is this stuff about Ruf wheels? Different sizes? Isn't that common? The countach IRL comes with like 225's in the front and 345's in the rear. Are you saying that in Gran Turismo the game uses 4 tires with exactly the same size? Except for the Ruf? Maybe someone can explain what's going on, for me... hah! Thanks!

there was a bug where if you bought aftermarket wheels (rims), you'd get 4 wheels of the same width (4 front wheels it seems). that made rear grip go away. And yes, the Countach was one of the affected cars, so was the RUF's, BMW M5, Cizeta, Corvette C6, Merc C65 AMG etc.
But its fixed now. The fix came with patch 1.04 I think...

 

[FussyFez]

What is this stuff about Ruf wheels? Different sizes? Isn't that common? The countach IRL comes with like 225's in the front and 345's in the rear. Are you saying that in Gran Turismo the game uses 4 tires with exactly the same size? Except for the Ruf? Maybe someone can explain what's going on, for me... hah! Thanks!

It's not an issue anymore.

On release, fitting any car with staggered wheels as standard, with aftermarket wheels, made the wider rear wheels the same width as the front, causing handling issues.

No longer an issue.

 

[ALB123]

Oh wow...That's bizarre. How did anyone even figure that out? It's not like the game tells you the exact size of the tires/wheels on your cars - does it??

 

[et_]

¨

Oh wow...That's bizarre. How did anyone even figure that out? It's not like the game tells you the exact size of the tires/wheels on your cars - does it??

People felt the cars became wierd, extremely tail-happy and considerably slower. then someone (dont remember who) pulled up 2 RUF's alongside eachother in photomode, lowered the camera and you could clearly see one of them had narrower rear tyres.

 

[Vegard]

All out top speed. Generally the difference is about maybe 2%-3% between racing and sport tires. Try it yourself at SSRX.

Generally? Are there small differences between all cars you have tested or are some cars immune?
This is a very interesting find 👍

tried Racing soft aswell, and even tho the top speed was about the same, the rpm was dropped from 7300 to 6900!

Which track?

 

[et_]

Generally? Are there small differences between all cars you have tested or are some cars immune?
This is a very interesting find 👍


Which track?

Top speed test, what do you think? SSRX

 

[Awong124]

Generally? Are there small differences between all cars you have tested or are some cars immune?
This is a very interesting find 👍

I haven't tested it extensively. I noticed it when I was tuning my cars on the test track for top speed. I noticed on a couple of the cars that I got different top speeds if I used different tires. So since then for consistency I always tested on Racing Softs. I haven't really tested this on a lot of different cars. I noticed that this was the case for a few cars so I just assumed it was the same for every car.

 

[UltimateLurker]

Good lord I wish you guys would stop using the word "rims." These are WHEELS we're talking about here, the rim is only the portion that holds the tire bead.

Sorry, pet peeve, carry on.

 

[et_]

@UltimateLurker : I can only speak for myself but... I know the difference and all, but its sometimes difficult to know which terminology to use when english is not your native language. sorry.