Where does Gran Turismo Sport stand in the order of racing titles? (on realism and difficulty).

[Scaff]

No !

 

[Scaff]

It's cute, now @bil coz is stalking my YouTube comments with his insults, oblivious to the fact that as its my channel I can simply delete them.

How about you address the points raised here first, as then I some more questions to ask?

 

[bil coz]

Here is @Scaff driving with ABS and traction control off, also catches quite sharp oversteer.



Great video and the VR looks gorgeous.

You're all so insecure about skills
I never made it about that or bragged cause I don't care about that.

THE PROBLEM IS GIVING YOUR OPINION AND POSING AS AN EXPERT WHEN YOUR EXPERIMENT PROCESS IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED.

go drive a '81 911 on comfort softs on the ring with TCS off then come tell us about the physics.

turning off TCS on higher grip and on lower grip tyres is noob logic.

Yes perhaps you would like to drive the car in my profile. I would bet you wouldn't find first gear let alone have the mental capacity to stop it. That being said,their video games. 🤬 video games. What the hell does it matter what you use. ABS, TC, DRS. Who the hell cares. Pro drivers sure as hell aren't using GT to practice anything.

Jesus and yet another one who doesn't get it.

Who cares what assists he uses as long as he doesn't pose as an expert cause he got 20 years blah blah so his opinion is worth something and he can make lists of which games have better physics.

I have nothing against people who aren't very skilled and everybody enjoying their game the way they want.

I have a problem with those who clearly should realize their judgement is worth zero, but instead make super serious claims.

 

[Scaff]

You're all so insecure about skills
I never made it about that or bragged cause I don't care about that.

No, that would be you projecting, I've not mentioned skill level at all, you, on the other hand, have consistently. You also forgot to tag me in the post again.

THE PROBLEM IS GIVING YOUR OPINION AND POSING AS AN EXPERT WHEN YOUR EXPERIMENT PROCESS IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED.

Is your keyboard broken?

go drive a '81 911 on comfort softs on the ring with TCS off then come tell us about the physics.

I don't do request, particulrly for those who try and bomb my channel with abuse and noise, which is now a futile act on your part (see if you can work out why I don't even need to delete them and you are now shouting in the wind).

turning off TCS on higher grip and on lower grip tyres is noob logic.

Quite the opposite.

The GT-86 has Traction Control in reality, so using it on the car is actually very representative of reality, the Corvette is a GTE class car and doesn't have Traction Control in reality, so not using it in the car is actually very representative of reality.

So when driving them in a comparison with reality its actually utterly sound logic to do so (which you will also remember is what I said right back, in the beginning, was my rationale behind using driver aids).

By the way, bypassing the swear filter, not using basic grammar are all AUP violations, so don't get upset that you've been reported again (and the repeated double posting will not help your cause either).

 

[bil coz]

Leaving aside the fact he's said he doesn't always use TCS, throttle induced loss of traction is only one element of a car being at the limit. In the current daily race A, for example, there is no throttle induced loss of traction at any point in the lap, even with a completely binary use of the throttle and TCS off. Yet you can still exceed the limits of the car, the best players are still doing the fastest times by achieving the most perfect speed at each point to be at the limit but not beyond it.

Even with cars and tracks where you can get throttle induced loss of traction, it's typically a fairly small part of what is differentiating players, most of the differentiation is the same elements as the current race A.

just look at yourself in the eye in the mirror, and say you can really feel what a racing game is about with traction control on.
"He doesn't always use it" meaning, he takes it off when high grip combo.. which is backwards. ffs he tested the rain physics with TCS on.

 

[Scaff]

just look at yourself in the eye in the mirror, and say you can really feel what a racing game is about with traction control on.
"He doesn't always use it" meaning, he takes it off when high grip combo.. which is backwards. ffs he tested the rain physics with TCS on.

Bypassing that swear filter again, oops.

Have you ever actually driven a GT-86 in the rain? I mean in reality, not in a game?

I ask because if you had, and actually pushed it, you would know exactly how backwards your own argument is (not to mention that again you are oblivious to the fact that the Corvette C7 is a GTE car - which doesn't have traction control), its more than possible to get the rear of a GT86 to still step out even with TC switched on, and even more so in the wet.

So if in your mind the TC in GTS makes it impossible to get the back out or reach the limit of traction in the GT86 in the wet, well then something is wrong with GTS's physics engine. Oops, see what you did, you just rubbished GTS's physics engine with your own logic!

 

[bil coz]

No, that would be you projecting, I've not mentioned skill level at all, you, on the other hand, have consistently. You also forgot to tag me in the post again.


Is your keyboard broken?


I don't do request, particulrly for those who try and bomb my channel with abuse and noise, which is now a futile act on your part (see if you can work out why).


Quite the opposite.

The GT-86 has Traction Control in reality, so using it on the car is actually very representative of reality, the Corvette is a GTE class car and doesn't have Traction Control in reality, so not using it in the car is actually very representative of reality.

So when driving them in a comparison with reality its actually utterly sound logic to do so (which you will also remember is what I said right back, in the beginning, was my rationale behind using driver aids).

By the way, bypassing the swear filter, not using basic grammar are all AUP violations, so don't get upset that you've been reported again (and the repeated double posting will not help your cause either).

I never said your skills invalidate your opinions.
What invalidates your opinions is the conditions in which you experiment.

You are still completely wrong about TCS, if they're racing a street 86 of course the fast racers will want to turn it off, but if they're racing a RedBull on SuperSofts it might make sense to then to use some TCS.

I wrote the important part in caps cause it seems your lot has trouble with reading comprehension so I thought let's make it easier.

Bypassing that swear filter again, oops.

Have you ever actually driven a GT-86 in the rain? I mean in reality, not in a game?

I ask because if you had, and actually pushed it, you would know exactly how backwards your own argument is (not to mention that again you are oblivious to the fact that the Corvette C7 is a GTE car - which doesn't have traction control), its more than possible to get the rear of a GT86 to still step out even with TC switched on, and even more so in the wet.

So if in your mind the TC in GTS makes it impossible to get the back out or reach the limit of traction in the GT86 in the wet, well then something is wrong with GTS's physics engine. Oops, see what you did, you just rubbished GTS's physics engine with your own logic!

You're behaving like a manchild and you're not owning me.
I know you must be under a lot of stress because you're aware of your limitations and you know that these people have no reason to be sucking up to you and you're scared ****less to lose face in front of them.
Chill.

recap of my points.

You are not a very good driver and it is perfectly fine.

It certainly does not disqualify you from having an opinion on things if you actually test them like they need to be tested, which you don't.

You are confused about TCS. yes they have it on street cars for those rich people who are just interested in looking good in their nice car, but those who take it to the track would want to disable it 100% and be 100% right. On the other hand with extremely high levels of grip it makes sense to have some TCS on even if you are Ayrton Senna.

 

[Scaff]

I never said your skills invalidate your opinions.
What invalidates your opinions is the conditions in which you experiment.

Actually you did, repeatedly, that's why you were told to stop playing the man. You also seem to forget that I can quite easily post up the youtube abuse here if I wish!

You are still completely wrong about TCS, if they're racing a street 86 of course the fast racers will want to turn it off, but if they're racing a RedBull on SuperSofts it might make sense to then to use some TCS.

Was I racing? No (not that it matters - I will come back to this)

Was I doing a comparison of a GT-86 in two titles with reality? Yes

Does the GT86 have TCS in reality? Yes

Do real-world drivers take advantage of late activation TCS systems when racing if they can? Yes, they certainly do.

I wrote the important part in caps cause it seems your lot has trouble with reading comprehension so I thought let's make it easier.

Ahh back to playing the man (or in this case men, or people).

OK, let's get a few (real world) basics in place. Traction Control is not a magic wand or hand of God. Its an active driver safety system that exists in many, many different forms and (much like ABS) is in reality far better at doing its job that the vast majority of drivers (including professional racing drivers). Your claim that Traction Control makes it impossible to test the limits of a car is utter nonsense, it will help you, but it will not stop you getting to the limit or even over the limit.

I've driven AMG E45 and C65's at Mercedes Benz worlds handling circuit both with and without TCS and its utterly possible to get them sideways with TCS on, I've driven numerous GT86's on the road and track in a variety of weather conditions (I came very close to buying one) and the TCS system in the car is a late intervention system, combine that with the narrow (and low grip as OEM fit tyres) and you have a car that will most certainly break traction at the limit even with TCS switched on (and if you don't believe me, GT86 and BRZ forums are full of owners who have experienced the exact same).

As such testing cars that come equipped with TC in reality, in a title is utterly sound logic, as you most certainly can still test the limits of the car (or you should be able to) and you can also test how well the physics engine is actually modelling the TCS system as well (and guess which one, in a head to head with PC2 does this best - you will not like the answer).

You're behaving like a manchild and you're not owning me.
I know you must be under a lot of stress because you're aware of your limitations and you know that these people have no reason to be sucking up to you and you're scared ****less to lose face in front of them.
Chill.

I'm not the one stalking someone's youtube comments or throwing insults and abuse about.

recap of my points.

You are not a very good driver and it is perfectly fine.

How gracious of you.

It certainly does not disqualify you from having an opinion on things if you actually test them like they need to be tested, which you don't.

Oh dear, you still don't get it, do you?

How many wet track days have you actually been to? If you go to one and it pouring down, damn right you leave TC switched on, as binning your own car doesn't get fixed with a quick restart!

You are confused about TCS. yes they have it on street cars for those rich people who are just interested in looking good in their nice car, but those who take it to the track would want to disable it 100% and be 100% right. On the other hand with extremely high levels of grip it makes sense to have some TCS on even if you are Ayrton Senna.

The original NSX had TC and was neither that powerful or had that much grip, was Senna wrong?

And TCS is only for rich people, nope not at all.

 

[GTV0819]

 

[bil coz]

Actually you did, repeatedly, that's why you were told to stop playing the man. You also seem to forget that I can quite easily post up the youtube abuse here if I wish!


Was I racing? No (not that it matters - I will come back to this)

Was I doing a comparison of a GT-86 in two titles with reality? Yes

Does the GT86 have TCS in reality? Yes

Do real-world drivers take advantage of late activation TCS systems when racing if they can? Yes, they certainly do.



Ahh back to playing the man (or in this case men, or people).

OK, let's get a few (real world) basics in place. Traction Control is not a magic wand or hand of God. Its an active driver safety system that exists in many, many different forms and (much like ABS) is in reality far better at doing its job that the vast majority of drivers (including professional racing drivers). Your claim that Traction Control makes it impossible to test the limits of a car is utter nonsense, it will help you, but it will not stop you getting to the limit or even over the limit.

I've driven AMG E45 and C65's at Mercedes Benz worlds handling circuit both with and without TCS and its utterly possible to get them sideways with TCS on, I've driven numerous GT86's on the road and track in a variety of weather conditions (I came very close to buying one) and the TCS system in the car is a late intervention system, combine that with the narrow (and low grip as OEM fit tyres) and you have a car that will most certainly break traction at the limit even with TCS switched on (and if you don't believe me, GT86 and BRZ forums are full of owners who have experienced the exact same).

As such testing cars that come equipped with TC in reality, in a title is utterly sound logic, as you most certainly can still test the limits of the car (or you should be able to) and you can also test how well the physics engine is actually modelling the TCS system as well (and guess in a head to head with PC2 does this best - you will not like the answer).

I thought you deleted it now you gonna post it here?
I never made it about skills, these were just side observations that y'all can't take your attention off from.

Stop insisting that I'm playing the man when you've all tried to make it sound like I was the worst piece of *** bragging about my skills which I never did and which I would never, partly because there's nothing to brag out, partly cause I'm not a child.

Actually you did, repeatedly, that's why you were told to stop playing the man. You also seem to forget that I can quite easily post up the youtube abuse here if I wish!


Was I racing? No (not that it matters - I will come back to this)

Was I doing a comparison of a GT-86 in two titles with reality? Yes

Does the GT86 have TCS in reality? Yes

Do real-world drivers take advantage of late activation TCS systems when racing if they can? Yes, they certainly do.



Ahh back to playing the man (or in this case men, or people).

OK, let's get a few (real world) basics in place. Traction Control is not a magic wand or hand of God. Its an active driver safety system that exists in many, many different forms and (much like ABS) is in reality far better at doing its job that the vast majority of drivers (including professional racing drivers). Your claim that Traction Control makes it impossible to test the limits of a car is utter nonsense, it will help you, but it will not stop you getting to the limit or even over the limit.

I've driven AMG E45 and C65's at Mercedes Benz worlds handling circuit both with and without TCS and its utterly possible to get them sideways with TCS on, I've driven numerous GT86's on the road and track in a variety of weather conditions (I came very close to buying one) and the TCS system in the car is a late intervention system, combine that with the narrow (and low grip as OEM fit tyres) and you have a car that will most certainly break traction at the limit even with TCS switched on (and if you don't believe me, GT86 and BRZ forums are full of owners who have experienced the exact same).

As such testing cars that come equipped with TC in reality, in a title is utterly sound logic, as you most certainly can still test the limits of the car (or you should be able to) and you can also test how well the physics engine is actually modelling the TCS system as well (and guess which one, in a head to head with PC2 does this best - you will not like the answer).




I'm not the one stalking someone's youtube comments or throwing insults and abuse about.



How gracious of you.


Oh dear, you still don't get it, do you?

How many wet track days have you actually been to? If you go to one and it pouring down, damn right you leave TC switched on, as binning your own car doesn't get fixed with a quick restart!



The original NSX had TC and was neither that powerful or had that much grip, was Senna wrong?

And TCS is only for rich people, nope not at all.

do you go to the wet track day to then give your opinion on the physics of this universe?

if that makes you feel better post the YouTube stuff here, I know you dying for mom to see them. I mean do it or stop mentioning it cause what good is it in the discussion, unless you really want to play the man?

I'm really sorry about the consecutive messages but it's really hard to do the multiquote whatever on my phone

 

[Scaff]

do you go to the wet track day to then give your opinion on the physics of this universe?

if that makes you feel better post the YouTube stuff here, I know you dying for mom to see them. I mean do it or stop mentioning it cause what good is it in the discussion, unless you really want to play the man?

So not having an answer sends you straight back to personal digs (but yes vehicle physics and dynamics do get discussed quite a bit at track days).

I may be a retired member of staff, but the AUP hasn't changed and you are seriously risking your membership here, so how about you actually address the points I've raised.

If GTS is the sim you claim it to be, then why are you under the impression that it's not possible to reach a car's limit of traction if you have TCS switched on in GTS? In reality you most certainly can, so why (in your view) doesn't GTS recreate this.

 

[super_gt]

I know you must be under a lot of stress because you're aware of your limitations and you know that these people have no reason to be sucking up to you and you're scared ****less to lose face in front of them.
Chill.

Don't worry, there were a lot of people like you over the years who challenged his knowledge, they all failed because he understands physics very well and never gave me a reason to doubt his knowledge.

 

[zorrofox]

Please God, let there be a Season 2!

 

[FoRiZon]

It's cute, now @bil coz is stalking my YouTube comments with his insults, oblivious to the fact that as its my channel I can simply delete them.

How about you address the points raised here first, as then I some more questions to ask?

Report the comments on Youtube. Youtube will likely strike him as harassment.
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2802268

 

[Boston77]

Good gosh.

Scaff, you have the patient’s of a saint.

It’s always a pleasure reading your thoughts on different sims. I learn a lot from it. Plus you do this community a great service by being unbiased in your opinions and thoughts.
I also really like how you deal with asshats (did not bypass filter )

strong

 

[FoRiZon]

A pedant here but it seems for your video thumbail, the text is swapped between both screenshots.

 

[praiano63]

I don't want to to take part to any kind of polemic in this thread but i have a question .
I don't have any experience with real cars physics , just a good notion of basic physic like anybody who went to school and i was also mechanic in the french navy when a very young adult. That's all but that is also enough to find very strange the traction control behaviors in gts.
I understand that TC act directly on the longitudinal grip , avoiding the wheel to spin in a fraction of second. Ok.
But why in gts , traction control have the same effect in case of lost of lateral grip ??? When you loose the rear accelerating out corner for example , stopping the torque on your wheels ???
Is is the case in real life ? Or does the TC only control longitudinal grip on real cars ??

 

[Donnced]

I don't want to to take part to any kind of polemic in this thread but i have a question .
I don't have any experience with real cars physics , just a good notion of basic physic like anybody who went to school and i was also mechanic in the french navy when a very young adult. That's all but that is also enough to find very strange the traction control behaviors in gts.
I understand that TC act directly on the longitudinal grip , avoiding the wheel to spin in a fraction of second. Ok.
But why in gts , traction control have the same effect in case of lost of lateral grip ??? When you loose the rear accelerating out corner for example , stopping the torque on your wheels ???
Is is the case in real life ? Or does the TC only control longitudinal grip on real cars ??

From what you are saying I think you're confusing TC (traction control) with ESC (electronic Stability control)

TC (tries) to avoid wheelspin in starts or exiting corners, meanwhile ESC manage the torque of lateral grip if I remember correctly

 

[praiano63]

From what you are saying I think you're confusing TC (traction control) with ESC (electronic Stability control)

TC (tries) to avoid wheelspin in starts or exiting corners, meanwhile ESC manage the torque of lateral grip if I remember correctly

But i've never used esc. What i describe is happening with any car in gts with TC only setted at 2 or above.

 

[breeminator]

But i've never used esc. What i describe is happening with any car in gts with TC only setted at 2 or above.

Dynamic friction is lower than static friction, so once the wheel is spinning, you only have dynamic friction, and lateral grip is reduced. When TC prevents the wheelspin, it prevents that change to dynamic friction, retaining lateral grip.

 

[super_gt]

Interesting video:

 

[Try_Rebooting]

People who are good at sim-racing are probably good at video games in General. If you take any racing driver and ask them to play video games, I'd put money on them, with a little bit of practice, being better than the average player.

Can sim-racing games be used as training for the real world? Yes. This is because video games *played in moderation* have been proven to develop the brains ability to track multi objects at the same time and to improve ones eyesight, specifically detecting objects from shades of grey. These are all skills that would be vital to someone who wants become.....say.....a racing driver?

As to how realistic is one sim compared to another? How scientific do you want to get? lmao. Microprose Grand Prix was realistic in the sense that you actually had to make pit-stops for tyre changes. How cool is that?! In the real world things get a little more complex. Rubber compound, tyre branding, track surface, track temperature, driver style, car setup, car weight, all go into into determining how long tyres take to go off. And arguing the different levels of realism between any of the current, *commercial* sim-racing programs is fairly laughable. There's a reason Pro-drivers use expensive sims, and the tech is often guarded between teams.

The point is that we have fun doing it, right?

 

[Donnced]

Rubber compound, tyre branding, track surface, track temperature, driver style, car setup, car weight, all go into into determining how long tyres take to go off.,

Well.....

If you want those features...take a look to assetto corsa...

Where you have to be aware to rubber compound,tyre pressure,track surface, track temperature,car set-up, driver style,car weight..to determine how long will last your tyres to go off,at which temperature they start to work...a which temperature they lose grip due overheating

Same thing goes for Project cars 2.....

And there you have to be aware in pit strategy in endurance races between day and night ambient and track temperature, because a hard tyre compound doesn't work as soft at night...or maybe lowing the pressure in the next set of tires in the pit stop is enough

Soooo.... maybe some *commercial* simgames are getting on very reasonable realistic levels,non expensive and still fun...

And take an eye into this article.... assetto corsa competizione surprised Andy Souseck, Spanish Pro driver of the Bentley team in the Blancpain GT series that started playing with an *commercial* sim due the covid-19 outbreak..
Without any expectation he was surprised how close the game is to his own racing car and experience

https://www.elconfidencial.com/depo...ndy-soucek-simulador-bentley-esports_2525876/

You will have to translate it with Google translate,but sure worth the reading.

Not so laughable anymore the levels that current *commercial* simgames achieve technically

 

[Groundfish]

Far as this topic, I’ve found steady improvement over time heeding Ross Bentley’s book Ultimate Speed Secrets.
I just try to apply that best I can to GTS (first driving game since Ridge Racer-I’m not a gamer)
Re tire wear, in this game that’s mostly driver skill.
I’ve found this game rewards fundamentally sound race driving techniques.
I learned quickly in this game that I thought I knew a lot about performance driving having read Alain Prost at 16 and with 30 years driving experience, but I was caught out.
Really knew little about proper race driving and expanding my limits...The sr dips were rage outbursts...DR dip was intentional...


Thanks Ross

 

[Try_Rebooting]

Well.....

If you want those features...take a look to assetto corsa...

Where you have to be aware to rubber compound,tyre pressure,track surface, track temperature,car set-up, driver style,car weight..to determine how long will last your tyres to go off,at which temperature they start to work...a which temperature they lose grip due overheating

Same thing goes for Project cars 2.....

And there you have to be aware in pit strategy in endurance races between day and night ambient and track temperature, because a hard tyre compound doesn't work as soft at night...or maybe lowing the pressure in the next set of tires in the pit stop is enough

Soooo.... maybe some *commercial* simgames are getting on very reasonable realistic levels,non expensive and still fun...

And take an eye into this article.... assetto corsa competizione surprised Andy Souseck, Spanish Pro driver of the Bentley team in the Blancpain GT series that started playing with an *commercial* sim due the covid-19 outbreak..
Without any expectation he was surprised how close the game is to his own racing car and experience

https://www.elconfidencial.com/depo...ndy-soucek-simulador-bentley-esports_2525876/

You will have to translate it with Google translate,but sure worth the reading.

Not so laughable anymore the levels that current *commercial* simgames achieve technically

im not sure you understood my point.

 

[JayRS200]

Jul 16, 2018....

Thanks to a member here who suggested changing to a softer compound for the rear tyre and harder on the front, it changed the entire feeling of the game. Cars no longer over steer like crazy and the physics feel spot on with this set up. Its a band aid affect for now but it just goes to show how much potential GT sport has if they fixed the tyre model. It would rank pretty high up there.

How times change. Or physics I should say.

What made PD make this game with major oversteer then introduce more understeer over time to what it is now. It was good at one point maybe 5 or 6 months ago(?). Challenging Gr3 MR cars, stable FR, and the Nissan GTR rightly had the most understeer of the bunch. I really wonder if they just change it for reasons other than the pursuit of realism.

Now I would rull out GT from being a top sim game. Fun and good looking yes.

 

[Deadpool]

For me, I like/dislike certain aspects of each sim.

At the moment here’s my ranking.

1) Assetto Corsa
2) Pcars 2
3) GT Sport
10) Forza (it became extremely arcadey)

I love the immersive FFB in both Assetto and Pcars 2, significantly better than GT Sport. BUT I find sometimes the physics on edge to be a bit too “slidey” and easy to maintain the slide. While GT can sometimes be too snappy. I think the best would be somewhere between the two.

With Iracing I have to go with the consensus of current Pro drivers who have raised issue with the oversteer, something many have been complaining about for years. The physics/tire model are fantastic up until you go over the limit. Unlike real life where you can still control a slide past the limit, in Iracing it’s like falling off a cliff which is far from realistic. This is a huge problem Iracing needs to fix.

In regards to the rambling TCS discussion. I don’t think one should use TCS to evaluate a physics engine. Why? Because the games TCS is a one size fits all garbage bin. It doesn’t replicate real life TCS systems, it’s rudimentary at best.
If you want/need to use it then go for it, as long as you enjoy the game then who cares. But it’s not useful for evaluating the physics engines because of its poor implementation.

 

[DYLAN777-is-not]

This got me thinking where does GTS stand in order of realism, difficulty of play (as 2 different examples) etc. For example, AC and PCars and DiRT Rally would be considered to be more realistic that GTS and Forza 7, nfs less real than GT.
Any other ideas about this? Doesn't just have to be about circuit racing.

TRY AND MAKE IT UNBIASED IN NOT HATING ON GAMES YOU DON'T LIKE.

Why do you allow anyone to answer such a question... When asking realism you should obviously be reserving this question only to people that have amble experience racing the cars in question IN REAL LIFE. Has the answer-er raced full speed WRC modern rally cars on dirt, gravel, mud and tarmac? Have you driven IRL 190mph in gr3 racercars down Fuji IRL? If not then hush... Have you raced an Aston Martins road car flat out around the Nurburgring? If not then how can you claim what's realistic? This is what biased is. Just talking big with zero experience in real life means you can't ever explain why one game feels more real to the other one. This is such a pet peeve of mine. I can talk big. I drive down highways, I've driven fast on dirt roads IRL before in a jeep with a locked rear end drifting it up and down a mountain. Have I raced on race tracks or real rally cars? No never once. So can I give advice on whats realistic? NOPE and nor should you.

 

[DYLAN777-is-not]

I did a little chart highlighting what I think.

View attachment 751504

FORZA AHEAD OF GTSPORT. What a meme...

 

[Northstar]

Why do you allow anyone to answer such a question... When asking realism you should obviously be reserving this question only to people that have amble experience racing the cars in question IN REAL LIFE. Has the answer-er raced full speed WRC modern rally cars on dirt, gravel, mud and tarmac? Have you driven IRL 190mph in gr3 racercars down Fuji IRL? If not then hush... Have you raced an Aston Martins road car flat out around the Nurburgring? If not then how can you claim what's realistic? This is what biased is. Just talking big with zero experience in real life means you can't ever explain why one game feels more real to the other one. This is such a pet peeve of mine. I can talk big. I drive down highways, I've driven fast on dirt roads IRL before in a jeep with a locked rear end drifting it up and down a mountain. Have I raced on race tracks or real rally cars? No never once. So can I give advice on whats realistic? NOPE and nor should you.

FORZA AHEAD OF GTSPORT. What a meme...

If we can’t give our opinions on how realistic a title is, how than can we say what one is more realistic than another?