Who is the current best passing F1 driver?
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Roo
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Easily Hamilton. He overtakes - and drives - completely by instinct, and always makes for exciting racing. Button gets an honourable mention too, although until Turkey he hadn't really shown this season the sort of moves he pulled off last year. I know picking those two sounds like patriotic bias, but I really can't think of anyone better.
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lol
kimi overtakes really good
he is/"was" just awesome
but some overtaking manoeuvre of him was just "crazy" (for him its normal but the peoples in front of the tv were shocked sometimes)
example:ICEmanvs Alo in suzuka
kimi overtakes really good
he is/"was" just awesome
but some overtaking manoeuvre of him was just "crazy" (for him its normal but the peoples in front of the tv were shocked sometimes)
example:ICEmanvs Alo in suzuka
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I think Jenson is one of the best out there, really this is down to 4 or 5 drivers.
Hamilton - doesn't need explaining unless you haven't watched the past 3 seasons.
Button - not as obvious as Hamilton, but he has made some excellent overtakes over the years and especially at the one race where it really counted (Brazil 2009).
Alonso - again, doesn't really need explaining.
Webber - he makes more mistakes than the above three, but he too can pull off some very aggressive but daring moves.
Barrichello - there were several good ones last year and one can never forget Hockenheim 2000.
All of them have had bad moments and there are scenarios where they just cannot overtake because of the terrible wake current cars make (Jenson on Schumacher, Hamilton on Sutil, Alonso on Petrov, Webber on Vettel, just to name a few from this year). But all 5 have made memorable overtakes many times.
Its interesting to note that all but Button are very aggressive overtakers, usually using pressure and squeeze to get through. Button tends to favour the out-brake method but he's very good at it.
I can't decide so I haven't voted.
I like Kobayashi's style a lot, ultra aggressive stuff, very Formula Ford style but he manages to pull it off! It hurts his pace in the race usually (though he was good at Abu Dhabi 2009 and Istanbul this year) but he is very exciting to watch. Time will tell if he is just kamikaze or very good at racing on the knife edge.
Hamilton - doesn't need explaining unless you haven't watched the past 3 seasons.
Button - not as obvious as Hamilton, but he has made some excellent overtakes over the years and especially at the one race where it really counted (Brazil 2009).
Alonso - again, doesn't really need explaining.
Webber - he makes more mistakes than the above three, but he too can pull off some very aggressive but daring moves.
Barrichello - there were several good ones last year and one can never forget Hockenheim 2000.
All of them have had bad moments and there are scenarios where they just cannot overtake because of the terrible wake current cars make (Jenson on Schumacher, Hamilton on Sutil, Alonso on Petrov, Webber on Vettel, just to name a few from this year). But all 5 have made memorable overtakes many times.
Its interesting to note that all but Button are very aggressive overtakers, usually using pressure and squeeze to get through. Button tends to favour the out-brake method but he's very good at it.
I can't decide so I haven't voted.
I like Kobayashi's style a lot, ultra aggressive stuff, very Formula Ford style but he manages to pull it off! It hurts his pace in the race usually (though he was good at Abu Dhabi 2009 and Istanbul this year) but he is very exciting to watch. Time will tell if he is just kamikaze or very good at racing on the knife edge.
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Hamilton is certainly the more decisive of all the drivers. Turn 1 he wasn't backing out and his drive at Turkey in GP2 is a driver i'll never forget watching, not believing what I was seeing.
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I've had to through it up between Button, Barrichello and Kubica. Why no Hammy or Fred? Well here you are:
I find Hamilton to be an immature passer. In the F1 of 20 years ago I think he would have been the perfectpasser- aggressive, ready to push at any moment. Back in those days you could push at any moment. The cars aero was much cleaner, and all it took was a little, harmless slip up from your opposition to get the opening. These days however, I rank him amongst the worst. The reason? He doesn't overtake. He puts his car in a risky position and dares his opponent to crash into him and recieve the Vettel/Webber style backlash. Call me old fashioned, but the onus of a safe overtake is on the passer, something that Hamilton has failed to achieve many times. I am not going to uselessly flame though, I will concede that he has had some spectacular overtakes that were clean. Unfortunately, it seems that most of his most popular overtakes, the ones labelled by fans as 'aggressive', are what I label as 'violent'.
Fred? His proven to be one of the best drivers on the grid, and is truly earned a place with the Scuderia. However, I have always found that he seems more a 1960s racer, who put a lot of emphasis on machismo, just having to pass that next man rather than hold back and bring it home. Also, while I recognise the talent of his two WDC, it seems that many people fail to attribute any of that to the tyre advantage of 2005, and the engineering advantage of much of 2006 (We can all agree that Renault had to most efficient Mass-Damper system before it was banned).
I hope I have explained myself sufficiently that we do not end up with 40 pages of debate on one members choices.
I find Hamilton to be an immature passer. In the F1 of 20 years ago I think he would have been the perfectpasser- aggressive, ready to push at any moment. Back in those days you could push at any moment. The cars aero was much cleaner, and all it took was a little, harmless slip up from your opposition to get the opening. These days however, I rank him amongst the worst. The reason? He doesn't overtake. He puts his car in a risky position and dares his opponent to crash into him and recieve the Vettel/Webber style backlash. Call me old fashioned, but the onus of a safe overtake is on the passer, something that Hamilton has failed to achieve many times. I am not going to uselessly flame though, I will concede that he has had some spectacular overtakes that were clean. Unfortunately, it seems that most of his most popular overtakes, the ones labelled by fans as 'aggressive', are what I label as 'violent'.
Fred? His proven to be one of the best drivers on the grid, and is truly earned a place with the Scuderia. However, I have always found that he seems more a 1960s racer, who put a lot of emphasis on machismo, just having to pass that next man rather than hold back and bring it home. Also, while I recognise the talent of his two WDC, it seems that many people fail to attribute any of that to the tyre advantage of 2005, and the engineering advantage of much of 2006 (We can all agree that Renault had to most efficient Mass-Damper system before it was banned).
I hope I have explained myself sufficiently that we do not end up with 40 pages of debate on one members choices.
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No, not dragging that Renault around in 2008 and 2009 or anything. I have to laugh when people use the "he had a dominant car" excuse for why a driver has won a championship. What else is he meant to win with?
Schumacher and Raikkonen weren't far behind those years and there were several other drivers (Button, occasionally the Toyotas, etc) to contend podiums and wins with.
I don't get why people feel the need to play down the significance of winning the World Championship, let alone 2 of them.
Not only that, but it has nothing to do with this topic. You will notice though that many of the drivers are considered great overtakers have had top machinery at some point.
Schumacher and Raikkonen weren't far behind those years and there were several other drivers (Button, occasionally the Toyotas, etc) to contend podiums and wins with.
I don't get why people feel the need to play down the significance of winning the World Championship, let alone 2 of them.
Not only that, but it has nothing to do with this topic. You will notice though that many of the drivers are considered great overtakers have had top machinery at some point.
ROAD_DOGG33J
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It's difficult to decide. I would probably lean towards Hamilton and Alonso. A blend of Button and Hamilton would probably be the ideal. Hamilton is too aggressive and Button is too conservative. Somehow I don't see Button making his way from the back of the field like Alonso or Hamilton does or even Schumacher.
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I'm not talking about his World Championships. I'm talking about his ability to pass, since that's what this thread is about. When was the last time we saw Alonso stage a pass, much less one like Button on Hamilton in Turkey? It's not like he got by Vettel for the lead in Bahrain with both cars running at 100% ...
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An attempted overtake which didn't stick?
Alonso has made a fair few passes this season, china springs to mind. If we are talking extremely good overtakes, last year at circuit de catalunya? half on the grass at over 150mph, its one of the most daring and committed overtakes I have seen in Formula 1.
I would have to give Alonso a close second to Lewis Hamilton, as the best overtaker in F1.
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freshseth83
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Button got past hamilton in turkey because of the same issue as the red bulls. put hamilton in fuel saving mode and button not, since he wasn't attacking the way hamitlon was he had a bit more fuel. When hamilton seen the pass he wasn't having for it. He said forget the save fuel, I'm winning this race. He's a team player but to a degree. He didn't give up with Alonso as his teammate, why would he do any differently for Button?
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I don't think he's violent. As you said 20 years ago he would be fine but he has to be that aggressive. As has been mentioned usually it is the car, but in this day and age he is one of the only drivers actually overtaking.
Safe overtaking? These day's it wont happen. As you said the onus is on the passer, I think you're very wrong in this assumption. Both drivers have equal responsibilities in these situations and I think Hamilton is a victim of other drivers practically saying 'You're going to have to drive me off the road to overtake me.' So what's a safe overtake? I mean Hamilton's Pass/Crash ratio is pretty good.
You mention Button, I see his overtakes in Brazil last season and even Turkey last weekend to be as 'dangerous' as they come. Look at the pass in Brazil, he literally did driver him off the road to make sure the pass happened.
I mean we criticise Formula 1 for being so boring and criticise it for having no overtaking. Just look on Youtube and there are Lewis Hamilton Overtake Compilations. In a sport with little to no overtaking that is impressive.
He's in a sport which if he wasn't that aggressive in this overtakes, nothing would ever get done.
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Hamilton doesn't really pass where you wouldn't expect it in my opinion-he's just very good at setting up said passes, and makes it very easy for himself.
Button is similar to Barrichello-a very 'passive' passer. He just gets on with it, with no hysterics or attempts to put the defender in a silly position. However, both can pull off some pretty clever stuff.
Webber is inventive-if need be, he'll just do a wall-of-death around the outside of you. Stuff like his pass on Piquet in China, 08 shows that if he screws up the first try, he may as well get you on the next go. His passback on Alonso in Spain last year was exemplary.
Juan Pablo Montoya can pull some pretty crazy stuff-around the outside at the bus-stop in Spa was fun, and into the 180 degree corner at the bottom of the Nurburgring. However, he does do a lot of 'let me through, or woe be you' kind of stuff.
Button is similar to Barrichello-a very 'passive' passer. He just gets on with it, with no hysterics or attempts to put the defender in a silly position. However, both can pull off some pretty clever stuff.
Webber is inventive-if need be, he'll just do a wall-of-death around the outside of you. Stuff like his pass on Piquet in China, 08 shows that if he screws up the first try, he may as well get you on the next go. His passback on Alonso in Spain last year was exemplary.
Juan Pablo Montoya can pull some pretty crazy stuff-around the outside at the bus-stop in Spa was fun, and into the 180 degree corner at the bottom of the Nurburgring. However, he does do a lot of 'let me through, or woe be you' kind of stuff.
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You have to bear in mind that a) they're a compilation of all Hamilton's passes from 2007 onwards, and b) if they made one of every pass from Australia 2007 to Turkey 2010, they'd be covering the better part of about seventy races. So while videos dedicated to all his passes might be impressive, it's not like he made all of those passes in one race or whatever.
And the last one I saw was made by a very keen Hamilton fan, and he slipped in what looked suspiciously like Hamilton lapping a driver once or twice.
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I think Alonso has the most passes this season since he has been starting from the back lately. We just haven't seen any spectacular passes of them on the Telly.
ROAD_DOGG33J
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The poster above your post was talking about his championships though.
Last time we saw Alonso pass? Dear lord, have you not been watching this season? I think I can remember a pass by Alonso in every single race so far, mostly because he's been starting way down the grid quite a lot.
If you can only remember Bahrain, you really need to pay more attention to more drivers before you decide to make sweeping generalisations about their skill or lack of.
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Button, Hamilton, Barrichello, Alonso, Schumacher.
Very few other people come close to those five. Of course, they've all had the best car on the circuit at one point or another, but then I can't think of many drivers who've won races with the worst car...
I'm not saying that all have shone this year though - Rubens is a late entry, Schumi is hampered by lack of practice and a car not up to it's best, and Alonso has really only had to pass backmarkers.
Hamilton and Button's little battle in the last race is a perfect example of aggressive and inspired, yet also clean racing. It's not the first time I've seen either driver race side-by-side with another for that long either, yet it's the first I've seen them do it and it was brilliant. Rubens has done similar in the past, and he's on my list because of Silverstone a few years back where he pulled off some of the best passes I've ever seen in F1, and did so repeatedly. It's one thing being opportunistic, it's completely another setting a driver up for a pass half a lap before you pull it off, gradually spoiling their racing line corner by corner and then outbraking them perfectly.
As for Button, he's always been a good passer, it's just often been hard to tell when he's had bad cars. I can remember him racing at Austria a good few years back, soon after he started in F1. He was passing pretty much everyone at pretty much every corner. Brilliant to watch. Somewhere I have a DVD of a race back in his F3 days at Pembrey in Wales where he made some brilliant passes - and that skill has obviously never left him.
For the poll I've gone for Button, mainly because of his pass in Brazil last year, when it really mattered. It was a bold move under a fantastic amount of pressure and he made it work perfectly.
Very few other people come close to those five. Of course, they've all had the best car on the circuit at one point or another, but then I can't think of many drivers who've won races with the worst car...
I'm not saying that all have shone this year though - Rubens is a late entry, Schumi is hampered by lack of practice and a car not up to it's best, and Alonso has really only had to pass backmarkers.
Hamilton and Button's little battle in the last race is a perfect example of aggressive and inspired, yet also clean racing. It's not the first time I've seen either driver race side-by-side with another for that long either, yet it's the first I've seen them do it and it was brilliant. Rubens has done similar in the past, and he's on my list because of Silverstone a few years back where he pulled off some of the best passes I've ever seen in F1, and did so repeatedly. It's one thing being opportunistic, it's completely another setting a driver up for a pass half a lap before you pull it off, gradually spoiling their racing line corner by corner and then outbraking them perfectly.
As for Button, he's always been a good passer, it's just often been hard to tell when he's had bad cars. I can remember him racing at Austria a good few years back, soon after he started in F1. He was passing pretty much everyone at pretty much every corner. Brilliant to watch. Somewhere I have a DVD of a race back in his F3 days at Pembrey in Wales where he made some brilliant passes - and that skill has obviously never left him.
For the poll I've gone for Button, mainly because of his pass in Brazil last year, when it really mattered. It was a bold move under a fantastic amount of pressure and he made it work perfectly.
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I personally found that pass quite dirty. He did what I said drivers like him and Hamilton do- Make an outright dangerous move, and dare the other driver to allow an accident to occur.
I'm still not so sure on how fair that was. On excitement calue I will accept it, but passing on the grass on the way down to the pitlane is the sorta thing that we see junior drivers being reprimanded for.or Alonso on Massa in the pitspretty Hamilton-esque
But hey, to each his own I guess.
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No opinion because I have not seen a lot of overtaking in the last 10 years; and a fading memory does not help.
Recently, I would agree with most and say the group of Hamilton, Button, Alonso and Kubica.
Bring on Montreal!
Recently, I would agree with most and say the group of Hamilton, Button, Alonso and Kubica.
Bring on Montreal!
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Yeah, I agree on the passing in pit entry. You would think the driver ahead would put his guard down right at the entry thinking that their is no racing in pitlane anyway and then you get a sudden pass in the grass. So wouldn't that count as a shortcut pass too?
Funny how you can kinda associate a drivers actual personality to how they race specially when you also consider them as a friend. You would most likely tell who would stab you in the back at times of desparation and who you could trust at those very same moments.
