Who Owns Cummins? It's a Shocker.

[dhandeh]

dhandeh what's your opinion?

I think we are trying to compare apples to oranges here, so it's a bit pointless really. It's a matter of budget, terrain, cost, comfort and a hundred other things.

I'm not say Land Rovers are bad machines, I do indeed like them and I would love to beat one up out in the sticks. I'm merely just agreeing with @Zenith's points.

See above.

 

[Tornado]

I've demonstrated I cannot work out which truck is better. and the land rover was built for the army in 1948 so it is built from the ground up for military use.

The one designed in 1948 was. The one designed in 1983 was, and still is. The one that appears in countless rap videos, which makes up the overwhelming majority of Land Rover sales and public consciousness, was not. It's no different from how the original Jeep all the way up to the early 1980s was still fit (albeit increasingly outdated) for nearly all military duty, but the current Wrangler is so far removed from the requirements that it required a substantial retrofit to even be used as a light duty vehicle.

The hard bit I'm struggling to work out is why no one else in the world uses these great american off road trucks.

Because they aren't made for European roads. They aren't built in or built for export to European countries. They aren't designed for European taxation schemes. They don't fit the same purposes that they are generally used in Europe. They weren't designed to be used by the military. "Being good off road" isn't the only reason militaries choose infantry vehicles anymore than "able to fire bullets" is the only reason militaries choose infantry firearms.


And your sarcasm, though a laugh riot, only really works as an argument in itself when you have a pot to piss in to begin with. "Clarkson said this" and "But the military uses this one that I wasn't until this point talking about" does not meet that litmus test.

 

[Zenith]

Because no one can afford the gas they suck up.

Wrong. 2004 Land Rover Discovery gets 12/16 MPG. 2004 F-150 gets 15/19 MPG.

Ah, so it's actually sort of useless because the Land Rover gets the job does as well for less expense and less fuel. Which leads me again to a conclusion that Land Rovers are better.

Wrong. Land Rovers are more expensive than a similar pickup. It also won't get the same jobs done as a pickup.

Yes, I know this the Ford F-series is. But if they are so great, why aren't they used by anyone in other countries.

Because American life is different than European life. It is common to have to haul loads to places, sometimes places that are not accessible by road, to work in America. A Land Rover is not capable of this. A pick-up is. It's almost as if people living different lives use different tools.

Land Rovers and Pickup Trucks are different vehicles. One is a passenger/luxury vehicle that can go off-road. One is a work vehicle that can go off-road. This is like comparing a van to an SUV or a Porsche to a BMW.

If you want to know why a Land Rover is inferior off-road to a Raptor or similar off-road truck, the reasons are weight, ground clearance, suspension travel, traction, and storage capacity. The LR is worse in these respects. If you listened to car reviewers who actually know what they're talking about, this thread would be much simpler

 

[Slash]

Really? I thought they did better on gas than the pickups. That's interesting.

 

[SniperRed3]

What 2004 Land Rover Discovery are we talking about? What Engine?
Edit: as I can see you were comparing a V8 to a v6. I should have made my elf clear the most common land rover used for off roading is the Discovery TD5 which has a 2.5l 5 cylinder Turbo Diesel enginehttp://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=20324&id=19980

 

[dhandeh]

Disco's are used for the daily school run, so using them as an example for off road vehicles is a moot point.

 

[Dennisch]

This is an offroad Landrover. The Discovery and Range Rover are nowadays made for asphalt first.

 

[Zenith]

What 2004 Land Rover Discovery are we talking about? What Engine?

4.6L Discovery S, SE, HSE. They're all rated the same.

Way to ignore the rest of my post.

Disco's are used for the daily school run, so using them as an example for off road vehicles is a moot point.

I was being nice. The Defender gets 11/14. The high perfomance race truck inspired Raptor I drove in gets better mileage than that...

 

[SniperRed3]

You've clearly never seen Camel trophy or an ordinary Britsh off road meeting
and yes I agree the newer land rovers are more of 50-50 mix of off road and on Road
The school run warrior is the Range rover sport with the v8 in.

 

[Zenith]

You've clearly never seen Camel trophy or an ordinary Britsh off road meeting
and yes I agree the newer land rovers are more of 50-50 mix of off road and on Road
The school run warrior is the Range rover sport with the v8 in.

None of this matters. You asked about pickup trucks. You compared them to road going land rovers. I am addressing that. We are talking about vehicles that people buy to work with and live with. Nobody cares about Land Rover meet ups, nobody called them bad off-roaders, take a step back and think about what we are discussing before you continue.

 

[SniperRed3]

We are talking about vehicles that people buy to work with and live with.

Again thousands (may be more) of farmers depend on Defenders. As well as multiple agencies.

 

[Slash]

Again thousands (may be more) of farmers depend on Defenders. As well as multiple agencies.

And again, millions of farmers, contractors, builds and average Americans rely on pickups.

 

[SniperRed3]

My personal experience with the Land Rover discovery is as follows. My father owned a 1997 land rover discovery td5with a 2.5l engine in 2005. We have a family of six so it could accommodate us all. We ran it on chip fat to decrease running costs. At the time we had a big caravan weighing around 1.6 ton it handled that excellently as the max towing weight is 3.5 ton after all. In regards to reliability after years of school runs, work runs and off road abuse it never failed on us once.

 

[Zenith]

My personal experience with the Land Rover discovery is as follows. My father owned a 1997 land rover discovery td5with a 2.5l engine in 2005. We have a family of six so it could accommodate us all. We ran it on chip fat to decrease running costs. At the time we had a big caravan weighing around 1.6 ton it handled that excellently as the max towing weight is 3.5 ton after all. In regards to reliability after years of school runs, work runs and off road abuse it never failed on us once.

Entirely irrelevant.

 

[SniperRed3]

So my experience in living with a landie, my household depending on its very existence for income, education and survival is "entirely irrelevant?

 

[Slash]

My personal experience with the Land Rover discovery is as follows. My father owned a 1997 land rover discovery td5with a 2.5l engine in 2005. We have a family of six so it could accommodate us all. We ran it on chip fat to decrease running costs. At the time we had a big caravan weighing around 1.6 ton it handled that excellently as the max towing weight is 3.5 ton after all. In regards to reliability after years of school runs, work runs and off road abuse it never failed on us once.

My dad once hauled 2.5 tons of ledge rock on pallets in the bed of his truck on broken leaf springs over his max carrying capacity 30 miles at highway speeds and over a leach field in reverse. So what.

 

[SniperRed3]

Ohh leaf springs how retro.

 

[Zenith]

So my experience in living with a landie, my household depending on its very existence for income, education and survival is "entirely irrelevant?

In this discussion, yes.

 

[SniperRed3]

We are talking about vehicles that people buy to work with and live with

I was replying to this

 

[Bopop4]

There's also people with a 20 year old Mercedes that've never had any problems.

 

[Slash]

Ohh leaf springs how retro.

Funnily enough, they are actually better with a solid axle for offroading. And the truck is 30 years old.

Funny how they still use them to this day....

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This has nothing to do with off road vehicles...still

 

[Omnis]

This thread makes me want to sit down with a bubba keg and snack on a squeeze tube of vagisil.

 

[IforceV8]

Does Ford own vagisil too? 💡

 

[AnthonyD1993]

This thread makes me want to sit down with a bubba keg and snack on a squeeze tube of vagisil.

Funniest thing I've read all day!


On another note, how does a thread about Ford having a stake in Cummins turn into a Land Rover vs. US pickup truck thread?

 

[Dennisch]

This thread makes me want to sit down with a bubba keg and snack on a squeeze tube of vagisil.

Are you his muse?

 

[Tornado]

My personal experience with the Land Rover discovery is as follows. My father owned a 1997 land rover discovery td5with a 2.5l engine in 2005. We have a family of six so it could accommodate us all. We ran it on chip fat to decrease running costs. At the time we had a big caravan weighing around 1.6 ton it handled that excellently as the max towing weight is 3.5 ton after all. In regards to reliability after years of school runs, work runs and off road abuse it never failed on us once.

My dad once hauled 2.5 tons of ledge rock on pallets in the bed of his truck on broken leaf springs over his max carrying capacity 30 miles at highway speeds and over a leach field in reverse. So what.

My grandfather once pushed his truck 15 miles in the snow on square wheels uphill both ways. And he was thankful to do it.

 

[TheCracker]

On another note, how does a thread about Ford having a stake in Cummins turn into a Land Rover vs. US pickup truck thread?

Are you new around these parts?

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Are you new around these parts?

I've lurked around this site for a year before joining, so I know that anything can and will become a pissing contest in an instant. It's just the topic that made it happen made no sense initially. I could understand the Semi vs. Light Duty Diesel argument, but the national utility vehicle war still seems completely pointless IMO.

 

[Omnis]

Are you his muse?

Cummins is my muse, my sparkless flame.