Who Used A Wheel?

[Simon Tibbett]

Yeah but this is a close friend who is not under a contract to prevent him from saying negative things about GT Academy. Seriously if you have all this seat time, then you most likely have a defective unit or have something wrong with the settings. Plenty of other people around here have no issue.

Oh sorry I thought you meant one if the winners or something.

I don't think it's defective I just bought it brand new and just used it on iRacing a few minutes ago with no issues. Maybe I just need to mess with the settings more and get a better feel for how GT gives information through the wheel.

 

[Simon Tibbett]

So, tried it again this morning for a couple of hours. There's a massive difference in the ways some cars drive, as there should be, it seems like some of the exotics are the ones that have the most issues in keeping straight. For example I ran a F40 at the Nurburgring. You have to death grip the wheel (FFB at 4) to keep it staight, if there's any small input the car will start tank slapping and just become uncontrollable.

I drove the FRS track edition model at Silverstone, it still had VERY little feeling like that, overall it was a pleasant experience.

Drove a GT car at Bathurst, nothing out of the ordinary, felt good.

Civic at Willow Springs, perfect.

So I am thinking maybe some cars just are hard to drive with a wheel? I also noticed the Ring specifically causes a much higher level of feedback through the wheel, seems to me because of the uneven road surface and maybe that also really upsets the physics in some cars like the F40? I drove a modified 370Z around there and it was still sort of difficult, but not at all like the Ferrari was.

In general, most cars have a "sway" feel to them down straights especially at higher speeds, if you let go of the wheel and sort of tug it in one direction, the wheel will start turning back and forth, like the tank slap feel I am trying to explain. Some sims I have played do this if you let go of the wheel, but while holding the wheel it just feels like small road surface changes. Turning FFB down helps with this greatly, but I feel anything below FFB4 makes it less realistic.

In general, I do see far more positive now than I did when I was pissed off last night about it, I can jump in some cars and out of the box be as fast or faster than I ever was with the controller first try, THAT is how it should be IMO. It definitely makes GT6 feel more sim like than before. I drove the FRS then immediately went to iRacing and drove an MX-5 Cup car, the overall feel was very similar in the way the cars react, iRacing seems to be a little better in the physics engine for example I still can't get as much realistic rotation in GT6 as I can in iRacing, but they are all just video games and hard to really replicate the real thing 100%.

So with all that said, I retract my "it's horrible" attitude for "it's great if you have the right car."

 

[grannyshifter]

I also noticed the Ring specifically causes a much higher level of feedback through the wheel, seems to me because of the uneven road surface and maybe that also really upsets the physics in some cars like the F40? "

Did you know the spring rate and dampener settings determine the feedback "effect"?

This is why GT doesn't have more options for wheel feedback, it is programmed based on the car settings!

What at first appeared to be a lack of option/customization (PD!) Is actually a very cool feature! Ensuring each car drives differently and if your wheel is jerking you around on the 'ring, it is a sign you should put a softer tune on that bad boy!

 

[BWX]

There is a thing on the G25 that I remember that my CSR totally fixes. It is when just cruising down straight, sometimes the wheel will start "pendulating".. Like it starts going back and forth on it's own, which causes problems and makes you fight it.

I am not sure if that still exists in GT, because I have not used a G25 on GT5 in years, or GT6 ever.. I'm not sure how the CSR fixes this issue, but there is none of that at all, and it is using exact same FF algorithms.

In those cases you just have to hold on to the wheel tight, and not let it get out of hand. It is annoying though. The G27 is a better wheel construction wise though. Better bearings, nice leather, aluminum structure. A thing of beauty for the price..

That's why it was tough to leave behind the G25 (similar to G27 as you know) in favor of a lower "quality" wheel. The thing is, the CSR has all kinds of adjustments that let you fine tune the rotation, spring, force feedback, "drift" setting, damper, deadzone (not used), etc.. And it makes GT6 (and GT5) a much nicer experience. The problem is the wheel is plastic and the bearings are not as bullet proof, and there's no leather, just small alcantara pads.


Anyways the point of that was to let you know that it may be that pendulum affect you are seeing.. And if it is still there in GT6 with the G27, you just need to run FF lower. I think 5 or 4 is the best bet.

Also there is a way to limit rotation to 720, 500, or something like that, 360, etc on the G27. I run between 650 and 720 on my CSR and that seems right for most cars. Maybe try to limit rotation to 720 or so and that might help.. Even lower for drifting. There's a thread around somewhere with instructions how to do it.

About MR cars tail "happi-ness".. Yeah, that is just all about learning to drive them, and it is tough in GT6 sometimes. Some cars seem almost broken, while other MR cars seem perfect. I think they'll be tweaking them in the future to behave a little more like you think they should, tail happy, but not impossible to drive. Like in real life.

 

[IROC89CAMARO]

I bought a G27 yesterday and i can say it's a whole new game, i would never go back to a controller after driving like this. Everyone says the six speed and clutch isn't realistic but i can tell you for a fact it is. It teaches you how to drive a manual the right way. Not burn the clutch up on the second lap way.

 

[IROC89CAMARO]

Hit the clutch put it in gear and release the clutch, no it's not faster then straight cut gears or sequential gearbox and it shouldn't be, but it feels like a game in itself to pull off a combination of perfect shifts in a race. All the hate for being realistic around here is starting to freak me out.

 

[IROC89CAMARO]

All you kids bitching need your ass busted is what KAZ would say! そこに出、あなたが怠惰な赤ちゃんを知らずに、実際の車の物理学を運転。

 

[Simon Tibbett]

All you kids bitching need your ass busted is what KAZ would say! そこに出、あなたが怠惰な赤ちゃんを知らずに、実際の車の物理学を運転。

Seems like someone is upset.

Anyway, yeah FFB is on 4, I'll try to adjust the degrees of rotation.

As for the spring rates comment, I don't know if I believe that. lol

 

[BWX]

I bought a G27 yesterday and i can say it's a whole new game, i would never go back to a controller after driving like this. Everyone says the six speed and clutch isn't realistic but i can tell you for a fact it is. It teaches you how to drive a manual the right way. Not burn the clutch up on the second lap way.

Hit the clutch put it in gear and release the clutch, no it's not faster then straight cut gears or sequential gearbox and it shouldn't be, but it feels like a game in itself to pull off a combination of perfect shifts in a race. All the hate for being realistic around here is starting to freak me out.

All you kids bitching need your ass busted is what KAZ would say! そこに出、あなたが怠惰な赤ちゃんを知らずに、実際の車の物理学を運転。

Triple post for the loss.. :-/

Also the clutch is not completely broken, but it goes into *N* in situations it should not.

It also is impossible to drift correctly while shifting because you cannot leave gas on at all and shift, which is wrong, and broken. You also have to depress clutch just about the the floor, or you get the big *N*, which is also wrong, and broken. Also it is not as progressive as it should be, the bite point is tiny, ands there is not a lot of travel to slip the clutch.. which is wrong. Besides all that, yeah it's fine. I played most of the career mode (with cars that have a clutch and shifter) with clutch and H shifter..

 

[stb155]

GT6 is way better with wheel than DS3, some cars are really hard to drive with DS3 but a joy with the wheel because you can feel and use the weight shifting, also it is so much easier to control brake/throttle and steering sensitive enough to drive without any aids.

But i know what Simon Tibbett means, some effects are just way overdone and feel tatal unrealistic. In a real car you don't have to grip the wheel like crazy and fight tank slappers all the time, in a real car the wheel will alwys self-center and try to correct an upset car (speaking of road cars).

But i think it is a good compromise as they try to let you feel things in the wheel that you normally feel with your body (seat of the pants) and that would be lost othereise as you don't have a full motion simulator.

 

[skazz]

But i know what Simon Tibbett means, some effects are just way overdone and feel tatal unrealistic. In a real car you don't have to grip the wheel like crazy and fight tank slappers all the time, in a real car the wheel will alwys self-center and try to correct an upset car (speaking of road cars)..

You most certainly don't have to fight tank slappers the whole time in GT6, not in any car.
There are three things you mustn't forget:
1. Sense of speed is lower in a sim than in real life, so you are probably going much faster than you realise.
2. Most consumer wheels don't have enough torque to spin the wheel as fast as the wheel in a real car autocorrects. Sometimes, especially on cheaper wheels like the DFGT or G27, you have to "help" the wheel because the motors aren't powerful enough to deliver realistic forces.
3. Screen input lag. If you are watching the screen and it's 50+ms behind, then obviously you will constantly be reacting too late. You need to anticipate.

If the car is getting out of control, a very fast aggressive move of the wheel to countersteer immediately is the best approach. The slower you are to react, the larger you need to turn the wheel to compensate, and the more difficult it gets. Tank slappers are caused by not understanding the 3 points above and reacting too slowly.


P.S. Simon's experience of tank slappers in GT6 while not having the same in PC sims could be explained if he is running GT6 on a TV with significant input lag. Perhaps try game mode on the TV or otherwise turn off TV functions to reduce input lag?

 

[BWX]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/g27-g25-dfgt-undocumented-wheel-lock-settings-guide.286646/

Wheel rotation adjustment on G27..

Found it..

 

[Devil240Z]

Can anyone drift with a wheel? it seems impossible to steer fast enough. Maybe the newer wheels move quicker but my old DFP just cant turn fast enough to drift with.

I completed virtually all of career mode with a DS3, and whilst waiting for more seasonal content to arrive, i thought I'd go back and try and gold things I'd just quickly passed through. I still had a few problems on some... so out came my DFP. It definitely helped me gold the X1 at Goodwood, and has been useful elsewhere in putting the fininshing touches to challenges.

I am definately slower with the DFP as on the Hudson and latest 15th Aniv TTs I'm a good few seconds off my DS3 time. However I've moved my grinding to doing the RedBull Jnr and NASCAR championships and 24m Le Mans and I feel it's a much better experience to use a wheel. Though the wheel can't stay out forever (as it's attached to an ironing board see above) and it can be quite a faff to set up for a quick race. So I think I'll mainly be DS3, but if the new RedBull challenges have the X1 in (as I'm sure they will), then the wheel is coming back out!

yeah I did most of the career with a controller. then I moved some stuff around and hooked up my DFP. I should have played that way from the start. You aren't slower cause the wheel isn't good enough. its just cause you're slow. gotta practice and the potential is much greater than with a controller. And im not talking about YOU specifically I just mean in general. But for me i'm not sure if I will play with a controller much anymore now that my setup is decent.

 

[BWX]

I did all the drifting challenges with the wheel and passed them all with gold, but it wasn't super- easy.

On CSR.. I turned down rotation to about 450, I reduced FF force limit to 80% (on wheel). I reduced linearity to 30%, I used "drift" setting 4 to 6.. I changed the sequential sifter up shift (back towards me) into a hand brake.. but then I had to use paddle shifters which were spinning around, so I ended up using sequential shifters and no e-brake which wasn't ideal.

And then it even took me a while to ace some of the more difficult drift challenges with gold scores.. but it was possible.

In a real car I can drift - like in the snow or dirt, not sure about high speed tarmac stuff, but I think I could do it with a little practice and some huge attachments.. In GT6 drifting can be a pain.. to balance the throttle and steering angle seems unnatural and the rear end seems like it constantly wants to step out or else the car under-steers. Weight transfer doesn't seem to work properly, it's more about speed and angle of gas pedal... not power of engine. That's just subjective stuff though obviously.

 

[CBH]

I bought a G27 yesterday and i can say it's a whole new game, i would never go back to a controller after driving like this. Everyone says the six speed and clutch isn't realistic but i can tell you for a fact it is. It teaches you how to drive a manual the right way. Not burn the clutch up on the second lap way.

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