why do loads of the cars have 276bhp???

[lbsf1]

title sums it up.

i have seen that lots of the cars have 276bhp this can't be what it is in real life.


just wondering why.

 

[Detroitbb]

Something to do with Japanese regulations... I think.

 

[EA11R]

Yes, it's a result of the 'gentlemen's agreement' to produce cars with power not exceeding 276 hp. Of course, they did produce more powerful cars, and only advertised 276 hp.

So, if you buy these cars, I believe the hp rating goes up to perhaps 300hp or so.

 

[daan]

Been discussed here loads of times in the GT4 forum

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83752

 

[FRR35H]

Basically, there are regulations in Japan ( or so there was) where you could not produce a car with more than 205kw (276hp) for obvious safety reasons and from what ive gathered, so that you cant run from the Police.
most cars had well over this power figure from factory but were DETUNED to accomidate the rules. i own in real life a Mitsubishi GTO MR '96, and when i first had it, it was detuned to 205kw, lucky enough my car is an easy fix and by simply removing a wire from the ECU it was no longer detuned but at its max power output which was close to 270kw+ from what ive gathered.
its like in GT4 when you buy a car and take it to the oil change shop. you suddenly get a power jump.
kinda like that but in real life

 

[jmb27]

I think that some cars might have been detuned for the JDM market. I used to have a 300ZX that was rated at 300 HP stock, 276 in Japan because of the regulation.

 

[Scaff]

Basically, there are regulations in Japan ( or so there was) where you could not produce a car with more than 205kw (276hp) for obvious safety reasons and from what ive gathered, so that you cant run from the Police.
most cars had well over this power figure from factory but were DETUNED to accomidate the rules. i own in real life a Mitsubishi GTO MR '96, and when i first had it, it was detuned to 205kw, lucky enough my car is an easy fix and by simply removing a wire from the ECU it was no longer detuned but at its max power output which was close to 270kw+ from what ive gathered.
its like in GT4 when you buy a car and take it to the oil change shop. you suddenly get a power jump.
kinda like that but in real life

I think that some cars might have been detuned for the JDM market. I used to have a 300ZX that was rated at 300 HP stock, 276 in Japan because of the regulation.

JDM spec cars are not de-tuned in any way.

They manufacturers simply state a lower bhp figure than the cars actually output. It is however true to say that JDM cars are limited (via the ECU) to 99mph.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Nauraushaun]

It's a bit ridiculous really, it sort of cuts Japan out of the high-class sports car market. The law isn't in place now, but when it was it meant that Honda's "supercar" NSX, which was originally pitted against the 270hp Ferrari 328, wasn't allowed to be upgraded as Ferrari came up with the 348, 355 and 360 within the NSX's lifetime, the 360 which had 400hp. Suddenly Honda's Ferrari beater didn't have a chance against the smallest, least powerful Ferrari on sale, and Japan's place in the supercar market became non-existent.

 

[SiNiST3R]

It's a bit ridiculous really, it sort of cuts Japan out of the high-class sports car market. The law isn't in place now, but when it was it meant that Honda's "supercar" NSX, which was originally pitted against the 270hp Ferrari 328, wasn't allowed to be upgraded as Ferrari came up with the 348, 355 and 360 within the NSX's lifetime, the 360 which had 400hp. Suddenly Honda's Ferrari beater didn't have a chance against the smallest, least powerful Ferrari on sale, and Japan's place in the supercar market became non-existent.

Then came "Godzilla"....

 

[Nauraushaun]

^ Well actually no, Godzilla was always around, he was just restricted to 276hp. He didn't exactly come along, it's just that the GT-R was finally able to increase its power. Skyline GT-Rs have had 276hp since the R32 or something.

 

[FRR35H]

JDM spec cars are not de-tuned in any way.

They manufacturers simply state a lower bhp figure than the cars actually output. It is however true to say that JDM cars are limited (via the ECU) to 99mph.


Regards

Scaff

no dude im afraid your wrong
as an active member amongst the GTO/3000gt forums i have found that they ARE limited. by limiting the car too 180km/h your actually cutting off the fuel that gets fed to the engine, thus taking away potential power. whilst its not really detuning in the sense that it has parts or that its been tuned to run less power, it is limited so that you can get the maximum potential, thus when the power figures that get advertised ( though not always correct themselves) you get 276hp/205kw. belive me i have since de-limited mine and there is a noticeable differance through the entire rev-range and gear changes. if you don't believe me go and check out some of the forums 3si.org is a good place to start

 

[SiNiST3R]

^ Well actually no, Godzilla was always around, he was just restricted to 276hp. He didn't exactly come along, it's just that the GT-R was finally able to increase its power. Skyline GT-Rs have had 276hp since the R32 or something.

Sorry Bro, thats wrong.

Godzilla gets his name from having ridiculous power. They always have said they made 276hp, BUT in reality they always make over 300hp, the R32's were making 310 out the Box, and the R33's and R34's make even more not to mention the V Spec and Nur editions that usually came with more aggressive cam profiles and even higher HP, ALWAYS marked at 276 regardless of what they actually make.. The fuel cut was still there but that's a top speed governor, not a hp governor.

Keep in Mind They make over 300whp Stock, With a AWD system how much do you think they make at the crank?

My Point was however, that the NSX was big news with the intro of V-Tec, but got Squashed by Godzilla

My Bud Has a R32 GTR I fortunately have had the pleasure of ridding around in it.

no dude im afraid your wrong
as an active member amongst the GTO/3000gt forums i have found that they ARE limited. by limiting the car too 180km/h your actually cutting off the fuel that gets fed to the engine, thus taking away potential power. whilst its not really detuning in the sense that it has parts or that its been tuned to run less power, it is limited so that you can get the maximum potential, thus when the power figures that get advertised ( though not always correct themselves) you get 276hp/205kw. belive me i have since de-limited mine and there is a noticeable differance through the entire rev-range and gear changes. if you don't believe me go and check out some of the forums 3si.org is a good place to start

What your talking about is a speed Governor, That only cuts fuel at Top speed and doesn't limit the HP. Get on a Dyno do a 4th gear pull (4th is most time closest to 1 to 1) You wont hit the speed limiter rendering it irrelevant, but YOU WILL get the best WHP reading from your car. Butt Dyno's mean nothing, sorry but they are allot of the time your mind playing tricks on you. J-spec cars WERE Speed limited, Not HP. And the speed limiter is EASILY got around with a variety of ways depending on car, from simply e-prom flash, ecu chip, to bypass wires, and piggie-backs or Stand alones etc. Regardless if your fuel is cut off the HP level is not dictating this and UP until the speed causes the fuel cut, the HP is not limited, and I hope you know your using more then 1 gear

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Keep in Mind They make over 300whp Stock,

Not a chance that would have been close to 400BHP at the crank on a 4WD car and the name godzilla has been around since the 90s when an australian magazine nicknamed the R32 it.

 

[Perfect Balance]

no dude im afraid your wrong
as an active member amongst the GTO/3000gt forums i have found that they ARE limited. by limiting the car too 180km/h your actually cutting off the fuel that gets fed to the engine, thus taking away potential power. whilst its not really detuning in the sense that it has parts or that its been tuned to run less power, it is limited so that you can get the maximum potential, thus when the power figures that get advertised ( though not always correct themselves) you get 276hp/205kw. belive me i have since de-limited mine and there is a noticeable differance through the entire rev-range and gear changes. if you don't believe me go and check out some of the forums 3si.org is a good place to start

You mad bro?

EDIT: BTW your car does not have 370hp. Unless the wire you cut led to some kind of electronic wastegate and now it just stays closed all the time.

 

[SiNiST3R]

Not a chance that would have been close to 400BHP at the crank on a 4WD car and the name godzilla has been around since the 90s when an australian magazine nicknamed the R32 it.

Its more like 350-380hp at the crank, and YES They do make that power stock, I have bud with a STOCK R32 GT-R (well it was stock) and it put down 310 with 200K kilometers on it. Then with a 3inch DP and a boost controller, it makes 320whp with a moderate (Close to stock) boost level of 12psi, but making peek boost faster and holding it longer. So peek hp isn't increased that much, but power across the power band is increased quite a bit, I believe around 17hp mid rpm's if my memory serves me right. Godzilla is Notorious for making ridiculous power out the box, a whole lot more then advertised.

When was the NSX Big news? 89 (All the V-Tec and MR Buzz) My Point exactly who named the GTR Godzilla is irrelevant The car was more relevant and more competitive killing the Buzz that once was for the NSX.

So my point, is that The NSX was Japans Supercar until Godzilla, & Godzilla has progressed along the years while the NSX has stayed relatively the same. The GT-R is Now a 470hp Monster & is still the Japan Supercar. Nobody saw the GT-R coming, when the NSX was all the Rage from Concept, the GT-R made its mark at the track.

@ FRR35H

Like 221 kW (296hp to 300hp) or something like that, was the Stock figures. However I'm not sure about weather or not they go over the limit like Godzilla does, that car is special.

 

[Tornado]

JDM spec cars are not de-tuned in any way.

I thought that certain JDM cars actually were detuned when sold in Japan? I seem to recall reading somewhere that USDM 300ZXs (and I think Mk. IV Supras as well) had higher boost pressures in the turbos than the original JDM models.

When was the NSX Big news? 89 (All the V-Tec and MR Buzz) My Point exactly

I'm pretty sure that the NSX was a big deal until well into the life of the F355. Regardless, the Skyline GT-R was targeted at Porsche Carreras. The NSX was targeted at the next level up.

 

[SiNiST3R]

I thought that certain JDM cars actually were detuned when sold in Japan? I seem to recall reading somewhere that USDM 300ZXs (and I think Mk. IV Supras as well) had higher boost pressures in the turbos than the original JDM models.


I'm pretty sure that the NSX was a big deal until well into the life of the F355.

I thought that certain JDM cars actually were detuned when sold in Japan?

I think some of them may be. While other fudge the numbers.

I'm pretty sure that the NSX was a big deal until well into the life of the F355. Regardless, the Skyline GT-R was targeted at Porsche Carreras. The NSX was targeted at the next level up.

That's fine, My point is that Godzilla became and still is More relevant. I never said the NSX wasn't a big deal or was a crap car. I'm only saying it's NOT & hasn't been the Big deal it was, While Godzilla became and IS.


The NSX was great, & then there IS Godzilla.

F355 is the next level up from a 911? I thought it was a Baby Ferrari, Doesn't the 911 kill the F355?. Just Joshing yah

 

[FRR35H]

You mad bro?

EDIT: BTW your car does not have 370hp. Unless the wire you cut led to some kind of electronic wastegate and now it just stays closed all the time.

ahh dude my car isnt entirely stock either and where did i say 370hp?


im going by my car specs
it has mild work done to it to make it that bit more powerful even still though with the car standard it would bring it around 300hp easily

 

[FRR35H]

@ FRR35H

Like 221 kW (296hp to 300hp) or something like that, was the Stock figures. However I'm not sure about weather or not they go over the limit like Godzilla does, that car is special.

it does go well over the limit as i said the figures were fudged from factory but i do know that the was more power unleashed due to the fuel cut off
every manufacturer had different ways of making that "gentlemens agreement"

 

[Tornado]

That's fine, My point is that Godzilla became and still is More relevant. I never said the NSX wasn't a big deal or was a crap car. I'm only saying it's NOT & hasn't been the Big deal it was, While Godzilla became and IS.

By the time people began giving up on the NSX, the Skyline was already under serious threat from Mitsubishi, so I wouldn't call it any more relevant.

 

[SiNiST3R]

it does go well over the limit as i said the figures were fudged from factory but i do know that the was more power unleashed due to the fuel cut off
every manufacturer had different ways of making that "gentlemens agreement"

I'm just saying its not more power unleashed. I understand what your saying. Believe me. I also understand the logic you are using. Im talking about a speed Governor. You car makes the right power in all gears leading to the gear your going to get fuel cut from the governor, dictated by vehicle speed.

It very well may be that your car WAS limited, but Beyond a speed governor.

If we are talking about a Speed Governor, what your saying is Correct, BUT then only about 1 gear. So your not getting all the power you could be from 1 gear. Well your getting the power (torque) just not the full use of that torque (pushing it into high rpm's) in that 1 gear, but the rest are getting all they should be.

If there is something beyond the speed governor that was restricting HP, then it very well may be what your talking about.

@ Toronado Umm I'm pretty sure, I made a one line comment saying "And then there was Godzilla" Are you trying to make this more then what it is? Are you looking for a fight?That's the way it looks. Grow up! This "Who has the last word" game is pretty lame.

 

[FRR35H]

I'm just saying its not more power unleashed. I understand what your saying. Believe me. I also understand the logic you are using. Im talking about a speed Governor. You car makes the right power in all gears leading to the gear your going to get fuel cut from the governor, dictated by vehicle speed.

It very well may be that your car WAS limited, but Beyond a speed governor.

If we are talking about a Speed Governor, what your saying is Correct, BUT then only about 1 gear. So your not getting all the power you could be from 1 gear. Well your getting the power (torque) just not the full use of that torque (pushing it into high rpm's) in that 1 gear, but the rest are getting all they should be.

If there is something beyond the speed governor that was restricting HP, then it very well may be what your talking about.

.

yeh see with my car that's what i was saying its a bit different to the other JDM cars from what ive read. there is a Speed Limiter which i removed and when i did that my cars performance Jumped heaps. it aloud it to go furthur faster with out any hesitations where as when i first raced down the 1/4mile it had the limiter in place and it ran a 13.00 time. since then i removed the limiter and the car is in the 12's easily and ive done nothng but de limit it..
so im saying that because the speed is limited via a fuel cut off its also alowed for more power.

 

[SiNiST3R]

@ FRR35H

I think your talking about Electronically Limited.

I'm almost POSITIVE what you did was cut the wire going to pin 66 on the (it's the yellow one with white trace) on the ECU.

What you probably did was remove the sensor telling the ECU your in 4th or 5th gear so as to not limit the fuel or RPM in those gears (That's a guess though) This would result in more power being felt in those gears, while 1, 2, 3, would remain the same.

If your breaking into the 12's in a 1/4 mile your doing it well over 100mph, & the limiter would of held you at 100mph making it hard to impossible to bust 13. I run 13.9 at 110mph in my MKII GTi VR6.

Keep in mind, Ive only seen GTO's break into the 12's with a boost controller pushing the boost to 15psi (and a few other goodies) I think stock boost is caround 9psi, but i could be wrong. Breaking 12 stock even with the Electronic Limiter removed is sketchy, unless you got some other goodies...

 

[FRR35H]

@ FRR35H

I think your talking about Electronically Limited.

I'm almost POSITIVE what you did was cut the wire to pin 66 on the (yellow with white trace)on the ECU.

What you probably did was remove the sensor telling the ECU your in 4th or 5th gear so as to not limit the fuel or RPM in those gears (That's a guess though) This would result in more power being felt in those gears, while 1, 2, 3, would remain the same.

If your breaking into the 12's in a 1/4 mile your doing it well over 100mph, & the limiter would of held you at 100mph making it hard to impossible to bust 13. I run 13.9 at 110mph in my MKII GTi VR6.

Keep in mind, Ive only seen GTO's break into the 12's with a boost controller pushing the boost to 15psi (and a few other goodies) breaking 12 stock even with the Electronic Limiter removed is sketchy...

not entirely true

but you are right about the ECU wire
its more 3rd gear that i feel it though and 4th gear as well
its definately busting over 100mp/h but it was struggling to make speeds over that when limited now its smooth accelaration through the gears

 

[SiNiST3R]

@ FRR35H

 

[FRR35H]

@ FRR35H

LOL
you think the msg is across for this thread yet?
i think the moral over story is: dnt whinge if your cars not fast enough, make it faster!

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Its more like 350-380hp at the crank, and YES They do make that power stock, I have bud with a STOCK R32 GT-R (well it was stock) and it put down 310 with 200K kilometers on it. Then with a 3inch DP and a boost controller, it makes 320whp with a moderate (Close to stock) boost level of 12psi, but making peek boost faster and holding it longer. So peek hp isn't increased that much, but power across the power band is increased quite a bit, I believe around 17hp mid rpm's if my memory serves me right. Godzilla is Notorious for making ridiculous power out the box, a whole lot more then advertised.

Yeah you are definitely getting WHP and HP mixed up no stock GTR with stock boost is ever going to be making 350-380 at the crank it's going to be 320-325 at the crank max.

310WHP is around 387HP and your saying that with a DP and boost increase with the stock fuel pump makes 400bhp you have no chance and also the ceramic turbine wheels melt or break at around 400bhp hence why you never see stock turbo cars making 400+bhp

BTW Fast and Furious isn't real life.

 

[Scaff]

no dude im afraid your wrong
as an active member amongst the GTO/3000gt forums i have found that they ARE limited. by limiting the car too 180km/h your actually cutting off the fuel that gets fed to the engine, thus taking away potential power. whilst its not really detuning in the sense that it has parts or that its been tuned to run less power, it is limited so that you can get the maximum potential, thus when the power figures that get advertised ( though not always correct themselves) you get 276hp/205kw. belive me i have since de-limited mine and there is a noticeable differance through the entire rev-range and gear changes. if you don't believe me go and check out some of the forums 3si.org is a good place to start

Lets see, I come from a family that has imported and run a number of different JDM spec cars over the years; in addition to that I have worked for a manufacturer that took a JDM spec car and converted it to UK use (Nissan with the R34).

In all cases all that was done to the cars was to simple remove the speed limiter on the ECU (well actually the R34's also had an oil cooler fitted to the rear diff - but that's not a factor here at all).

Speed limiting a car is not de-tuning it in any way at all, particularly as the ECU speed limit only applies in higher gears.


I would also point out that the AUP here at GT Planet states quite clearly that good grammar is to be used at all time. That means starting sentences and nouns with a capital letter and not using text-speak.

Please do not continue to break this part of the AUP, or action will be taken.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Tornado]

@ Toronado Umm I'm pretty sure, I made a one line comment saying "And then there was Godzilla" Are you trying to make this more then what it is? Are you looking for a fight?That's the way it looks. Grow up! This "Who has the last word" game is pretty lame.

My Point was however, that the NSX was big news with the intro of V-Tec, but got Squashed by Godzilla

When was the NSX Big news? 89 (All the V-Tec and MR Buzz) My Point exactly who named the GTR Godzilla is irrelevant The car was more relevant and more competitive killing the Buzz that once was for the NSX.

Nobody saw the GT-R coming, when the NSX was all the Rage from Concept, the GT-R made its mark at the track.

 

[SiNiST3R]

Yeah you are definitely getting WHP and HP mixed up no stock GTR with stock boost is ever going to be making 350-380 at the crank it's going to be 320-325 at the crank max.

If the car had been put on a engine Dyno I might have clear readings for the Crank. However All it was put on was a Dyno giving us whp, and the car made 310 2 weeks after being shipped, and the car had 200k kilometers on the odometer. 10hp more when the DP And Electronic Boost controller got put in play (Might of changed the wastgate spring to require more boost to actuate, but I cant remember if that was before the dyno Trip (it was 3 years ago)

YES with a DP, and boost controller, it peaks at 320whp, you can argue all you want but those the facts.

Could the guy the car was bought off done a little something we may have overlooked? Yeah. Could it of been a really cold winter day up here in Canada? Could of been. Does it matter? Not really, its seams your arguing for arguments sake, and talking like a Child with that F&F crap. My apologies (sarcastically) There MAY have been a manual controller peaking boost at 9psi.

310WHP is around 387HP and your saying that with a DP and boost increase with the stock fuel pump makes 400bhp you have no chance and also the ceramic turbine wheels melt or break at around 400bhp hence why you never see stock turbo cars making 400+bhp

I might underestimate the power train loss, your over exaggerating it. I only speak with certainty of what the HP reading was, your trying like a arse to twist that into me making crank figure claims, when I haven't. That's a sign of a weak argument. Not to mention The Stock Turbo can go QUITE high, Ive actually heard of a guy making over 487whp on a STOCK turbo. It goes well above 7psi, Although above 12psi it starts flowing like crap. How long can it hold out like that? Who cares, the Stock Snail usually doesn't stay in long if your looking for high stable power. We are also talking about a Dyno Pull, and not a finished tune.


@ Toronado

Sooo, your looking to start a Flame war? If that's what you want, just keep going...