Why do real-life hot-lappers jerk the steering wheel back and forth when cornering?



In a lot of fastest-lap vids I see, such as this GT-R nurburgring lap, i've noticed that drivers are rarely smooth when cornering, instead they jerk the wheel back and forth on most corners. i suspect that this is to maintain a perfect driving line, am i right? Do you guys steer like this when hot-lapping Nordschleife in GT5? Just seemed like something worth noting.
 
The 'ring is really bumpy so if you kept the wheel smooth you wouldn't actually take the racing line, you'd probably understeer...
 
Actually to go fast on the ring, even in the game you have to be a little rude in some corners, or you will understeer suddenly ;)
 
I think it is knowledge that you have understeer and by doing this helps you get into a corner better. I have started doing thus following the Fiat Expert Seasonal and found the best way to drive into these corners was to steer in, steer out and hard back in again, in quick succession. Makes sense?
 
In a lot of fastest-lap vids I see, such as this GT-R nurburgring lap, i've noticed that drivers are rarely smooth when cornering, instead they jerk the wheel back and forth on most corners. i suspect that this is to maintain a perfect driving line, am i right? Do you guys steer like this when hot-lapping Nordschleife in GT5? Just seemed like something worth noting.

It's down to a variety of reasons. Bumps and curbs kicking back through the wheel and the driver reacting to the car losing traction, probably down to the circuit not having a perfect surface.

You don't drive that way in GT5 because the only interface you have with what the car is doing is visually and maybe the odd bit of information the force feedback wheel provides - which is obviously artificial at best. The driver of the GT-R in the vid reacts to what he's feeling through the wheel and the seat of his pants as well as what his inner ear is telling him about the balance of the car. It's information that GT5 just can't provide the player with.
 
It's down to a variety of reasons. Bumps and curbs kicking back through the wheel and the driver reacting to the car losing traction, probably down to the circuit not having a perfect surface.

You don't drive that way in GT5 because the only interface you have with what the car is doing is visually and maybe the odd bit of information the force feedback wheel provides - which is obviously artificial at best. The driver of the GT-R in the vid reacts to what he's feeling through the wheel and the seat of his pants as well as what his inner ear is telling him about the balance of the car. It's information that GT5 just can't provide the player with.

He explained it all. Basic driving experience tells it all.
 
I can not get that video to play, but if it is small fast movements back and forth then I certainly do this. Especially out of long fast corners. I unconsciously do it to feel out the grip and if the car is sliding slightly. If I move the wheel a bit and the car does not exactly respond to the input then I know the car is sliding. I've seen F1 drivers do it also which put a smile on my face when I saw it.
 
I can not get that video to play, but if it is small fast movements back and forth then I certainly do this. Especially out of long fast corners. I unconsciously do it to feel out the grip and if the car is sliding slightly. If I move the wheel a bit and the car does not exactly respond to the input then I know the car is sliding. I've seen F1 drivers do it also which put a smile on my face when I saw it.

There was some great footage of Alonso wrestling with his car at one stage at the Silverstone GP. Looked a real handful...
 
Do you guys steer like this when hot-lapping Nordschleife in GT5?
You do realise that, while GT5 tries to be as realistic as possible, it is still only a video game and therefore nothing more than a representation of reality?

You could try your smooth driving lines on the Nurburgring in real life - but you'd probably be hip-deep in the armco after about three corners.
 
You do realise that, while GT5 tries to be as realistic as possible, it is still only a video game and therefore nothing more than a representation of reality?

You could try your smooth driving lines on the Nurburgring in real life - but you'd probably be hip-deep in the armco after about three corners.

GT5, as realistic as possible?

LULZ.
 
Excepting the steering kicks caused by a bumpy track, you can basically break down what's doing in each corner in to 3 segments...

Turn in
Unless the car is already loaded laterally in the opposite direction to the turn (due to the car transitioning from a previous turn) his first steering input is almost always smooth... though this initial movement may be very brief, it's still smooth to ensure he doesn't overload the outside front tyre and create understeer. Because the car is right on the grip limit, and he's using trail braking, the car is most often starting to slide neutrally once the inital action of initiating the turn is started - though in some corners he's getting a bit of turn in understeer and other a bit of oversteer, depending on how accurate he is with his trail braking, entry speed and steering input. This means as soon as he's initiated the turn he needs to use the steering to balance the grip front and rear... winding minute amounts of lock on and off rapidly to maintain a neutral balance.

Mid corner
Almost always a constant steering angle unless he's riding the kerbs, or there are bumps - easiest to see in the longer, constant radius turns, where understeer is the primary handling trait.

Corner exit
In the GTR, the rearward torque split coupled with how early (usually just after the apex) and how hard he's getting back on the gas mean's he's generally getting a bit of oversteer... so he has to wind the lock off quite quickly to handle the rapid change from mid corner understeer to exit oversteer. The GTR's electronics are having an effect here too... moving torque from back to front as it senses oversteer... so there's a bit of fight between driver and car for who's actually in control.

At the Nurburgring there are a lot of quick transitions from right to left or left to right. These cause rapid lateral weight shifts and as the car is loaded he's having to manage some turn in oversteer at times, which makes the steering inputs look violent... but you need to look at the way he manages turing in from a straight in to a long or constant radius turn to see the true technique he's using.

If you watch this video you'll see there's far less 'sawing' at the wheel on the initial turn in... yes, occassionally, he gets a bit of understeer, meaning he has to add a bit of extra lock quickly to get the car turned in, but most of the time his inputs are smooth and measured. Of course a car running on slicks with lots of downforce will generally slide less and so will require less steering corrections. Most of the short, sharp inputs in this video are caused by the bumps kicking back thorugh the steering...

 
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I know most GT purists don't want to hear this title but... NASCAR. Watch any race and you'll see the severe "jerking" of the wheel for all of the reasons above. Understeer, oversteer, aero differences (when in packs), bumps, and even older tires creates this. I think it's awesome.
 
which is still not the case. :P

Sawing generally appears when you have a difficult car, as the driver has to both provoke and correct the car often to compensate for the handling imperfections. The more sorted a car is, the less work the driver has to do, and he can track a natural path when the chassis and suspension setting do most of the work.

if you want to see some serious sawing, look at this.



It's a constant battle to exploit the front tire's slip angle while rotating the car with the throttle, and counter steering when the car's balance is just going over to oversteer.
 
It's down to a variety of reasons. Bumps and curbs kicking back through the wheel and the driver reacting to the car losing traction, probably down to the circuit not having a perfect surface.

You don't drive that way in GT5 because the only interface you have with what the car is doing is visually and maybe the odd bit of information the force feedback wheel provides - which is obviously artificial at best. The driver of the GT-R in the vid reacts to what he's feeling through the wheel and the seat of his pants as well as what his inner ear is telling him about the balance of the car. It's information that GT5 just can't provide the player with.


This ^ And jerking the wheel aslo helps with traction on the steering [road wheels]. I used this technique many years ago when racing through forests in my rally days as the front wheels started to loose grip and understeer I would pre-empt it by using this method to bring wheels straitish and turn again making the car turn better. Similar in fact to ABS and how that works by applying then releasing brake pressure if you know what i mean, brakes on brakes off very quickly = no skid, steering turn in then out slightly then in again helps to maintain driving line and road wheel grip. As stated by Cracker its done in conjunction with the feedback of the car, Hence the old saying driving by the seat of your pants LOL

Edit : It also works on opposte lock whilst countering Slides.
 

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