Why do the "Pro's" use bumper cam?

[niky]

At the fastest level of racing and in timed competitions, everyone uses bumper cam... which is where the "pro" comment comes from.

It's not that you aren't good if you use cockpit cam... far from it... if you use cockpit cam and are as fast as everyone else, then you're pretty good... it's just that bumper cam is used in most serious racing situations.

Someone mentioned a hood cam... this kind of camera would be perfect actually... and the best representation in terms of realism given the limited field of view you can get through a single monitor... but GT doesn't have a hood cam and the roof cam, as many have mentioned, is too high.

 

[Narasumas]

The only case where I feel confortable using the cockpit view is when driving an open wheeler. Maybe because there's no roof... Otherwise roof/bumper cam. I think my prefered view would be the roof cam if the virtual mirror was available.

 

[analog]

At the fastest level of racing and in timed competitions, everyone uses bumper cam... which is where the "pro" comment comes from.

It's not that you aren't good if you use cockpit cam... far from it... if you use cockpit cam and are as fast as everyone else, then you're pretty good... it's just that bumper cam is used in most serious racing situations.

Maybe if you're a "pro" and participate in the fastest level of racing the Bumper cam offers the view most likely to help gain fractions of seconds although i'm not any faster using it.

But i don't consider myself a "pro" or even care much about being the fastest driver, which i know i'm never going to be.
I consider myself to be a reasonably skilled car enthusiast who when racing online using cockpit view, almost always battle in front of the pack and often win, but it's the experience cockpit view brings to me which i find the most fun, and having fun is the reason i play GT.

GT is a driving sim with the main focus on racing, so if you want to be the fastest and you're main concern is performance and battling than it can be a pure racing sim for you.
But it isn't the main focus for me, it is a platform to celebrate the automobile for me allowing me to enjoy driving all those cars i'm not able to IRL.
And the best thing is GT allowes both, i can understand both arguments and understand some people mainly use it to race, just hope the understanding is mutual because it isn't exclusive to either one.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I think my prefered view would be the roof cam if the virtual mirror was available.

This.

When I'm not using the cockpit view, I use the roof cam. I just hope in GT5 they allow you to turn on the rear view mirror for roof cam. That's the biggest problem I have with it.

 

[Zer0]

I actually prefer cockpit view not only because of its gorgeous graphics or its perfect modelling or even knowing which car i'm actually driving but also because i get a better sense of the cars overal dimensions and the loss of view everyone seems to complain about just takes getting used to, it's actually not that much and worth the "sacrifice".
Bumpercam or Hoodcam always leave me feeling completely detached, like i'm driving an extremely fast first person skate board.

I was going to post exactly that, better car position, better lines. More close to the feeling of driving inside a real car.

Always played previous GT in bumper view and since day one I found the cockpit view faster and confidence.

Are you getting enought lap times differences to make this such a big deal or is only a matter of being accustomed?

 

[Lemminkainen]

I think I'm definitely in the minority in that I preferred the roof cam in GT4. That view always gave me the best sensation of what the car was actually doing (understeer, oversteer, lack of aero grip, etc.).

 

[Racer Dee]

I've been using the bumper cam since GT1,it gives the sense of speed,but with the addition of the cockpit view in GT5.It might make it as my favourite viewing cam...

I still don't own a PS3 or GT5P.I'm waiting for GT5,then I'll buy the PS3.

Sorry if I have bad english,I'm from Malaysia..

 

[TokyoDrift]

The whole point of a racing game is not only driving as fast as you can, it's also about enjoyment or the experience it provides whilst driving as fast as you can, besides GT isn't just a racing game only.
I actually prefer cockpit view not only because of its gorgeous graphics or its perfect modelling or even knowing which car i'm actually driving but also because i get a better sense of the cars overal dimensions and the loss of view everyone seems to complain about just takes getting used to, it's actually not that much and worth the "sacrifice".
Bumpercam or Hoodcam always leave me feeling completely detached, like i'm driving an extremely fast first person skate board.

So, you know GT is a racing game involving a variety of cars. You load the game and go through the menu and pick you car, then race your car on a track, with the sound of the engine, speedometer etc., and also see other cars on track. If after all of that you still think you are on a skateboard...

Look, I know why people prefer it - because it gives (some would say) a better impression that you are driving a car, but being frank, neither interior view or bumper cam is realistic. With interior view you lose the majority of your peripheral vision, and with bumper can, you don't see the interior at all. It is, as you said, all about preference and what you get used to, and I'm used to bumper/hood cam. The same lap times will be achievable with both, and car placement is just something you get used to in a given view.

As for GT not being just a racing game only, what else is it? The whole point is to race either against the clock, or other cars. In each case, the idea is that you drive as fast as you can while maintaining control of the vehicle. Forget the rest of the game that happens before you race - that's got nothing to do with the topic in question.

 

[G.T.Ace]

This topic has already been discussed in another thread and the whole real versus unreal arguments also and are frankly irrelevant, as it's mostly just personal preference.
If you use a wheel it might be strange to have another in front of you and an option like the one in Dirt whereby 2 cockpit views are accessible ( one with and one closer to the front screen without wheel ) could solve this.
As a DS3 controller user i don't have any problem with the steering wheel, i just love cockpit/interior view and it's the only view i use, even if i would lose some seconds on each lap ( which i don't ).
It's the most immersive and enjoyable experience which GT has to offer regarding viewpoints in my opinion and can't wait to drive all those 950 cars in GT5 from behind the dashboard ( bumper cam, etc. make each car completely anonymous and the experience boring, so i wouldn't use it even if it made me faster, it's about fun and for me cockpit view is the most fun ).

Same for me, plus im slower with the bumper cam, i tested it with the TT demo. I used the roof cam in GT4 btw.

 

[analog]

Are you getting enought lap times differences to make this such a big deal or is only a matter of being accustomed?

Don't make it a big deal, as it's just personal preference, and the lap times are almost identical whether i'm using bumper cam or interior view.
Could be some people get significantly better lap times using bumper cam but not me, at least not considerably better to change my preference.
Just find it the more fun option and grew accustomed to it and therefor maybe more able to deal with any disadvantages regarding loss of view.
But like i said before, GT isn't about all out performance all the time for me, just love experiencing all those cars from within those cars.

 

[analog]

As for GT not being just a racing game only, what else is it? The whole point is to race either against the clock, or other cars. In each case, the idea is that you drive as fast as you can while maintaining control of the vehicle. Forget the rest of the game that happens before you race - that's got nothing to do with the topic in question.

The whole point for you might be only racing against the clock or against other drivers/cars and that's fine, just don't expect everyone to share the same opinion and being somehow strange if you don't.
There is no basic idea for GT, it can be many things to many people, and granted the main focus is racing but just driving on some tracks in a great car is sometimes all i want to do.
It is after all called "the real driving simulator" for a reason, if you want it to be a racing sim only you could, i just think there's much more to it than just trying to improve lap times and always gunning your car for glory.
Sometimes all i want to do is race online, other times i just want to enjoy the cars, just limiting this game to one thing only is a shame in my opinion.

Again sorry for double posting, if someone could merge these posts please do. ( Isn't done intentional, just forgot the last post was mine too )

 

[zujo 19]

To me speed is not matter, just the fun .

 

[Ollie1066]

I just wish they put a bonnet, or "hood" as some say, cam in. Its what I would probably use if I'm desperate for a fast time. But cockpit cam just because its cool.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

GT is a driving sim with the main focus on racing, so if you want to be the fastest and you're main concern is performance and battling than it can be a pure racing sim for you.
But it isn't the main focus for me, it is a platform to celebrate the automobile for me allowing me to enjoy driving all those cars i'm not able to IRL.
And the best thing is GT allowes both, i can understand both arguments and understand some people mainly use it to race, just hope the understanding is mutual because it isn't exclusive to either one.

Same thoughts.

I am never going to be a sim racer, I do not have, or want to spend, that much time 'racing', which you need to be good to be good , or to be a 'pro'.

But when I do race I like being in the car, rather than perched on the bumper (which has a more 'game' feel).

To each their own.

And remember without the tail enders, you would only have mostly two car races. A gold medal doesn't mean much when you only had one opponent

And I keep going in a race even if I am last, just in case the car ahead makes a few mistakes and I can catch them up.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

Whenever you're driving in real life you're not looking at the steering wheel in your hands and then at a second one further away with another pair of hands that replicates your movements

In real life you shouldn't be looking at the wheel when driving !!!

You are meant to be looking where you are going, could explain all the rammers online in Prologue I suppose.

 

[paulpg87]

If you play it for simulation you have to use cockpit view... other views are like cheating.

 

[rydeen]

i hope there will be a hood view in GT5. I like hood or roof view because u can see more and u can see where the wheels are.

 

[Dan_]

I'm far from being a "Pro" as you stated, but I'm sure everyone who uses bumper cam appreciate, the better feel of the road, the greater sense of speed and to me there's a detail which is very relevant: The cars sound better when using bumper cam. I'm not saying they sound good, but better than in cockpit view.

 

[TokyoDrift]

The whole point for you might be only racing against the clock or against other drivers/cars and that's fine, just don't expect everyone to share the same opinion and being somehow strange if you don't.
There is no basic idea for GT, it can be many things to many people, and granted the main focus is racing but just driving on some tracks in a great car is sometimes all i want to do.
It is after all called "the real driving simulator" for a reason, if you want it to be a racing sim only you could, i just think there's much more to it than just trying to improve lap times and always gunning your car for glory.
Sometimes all i want to do is race online, other times i just want to enjoy the cars, just limiting this game to one thing only is a shame in my opinion.

Again sorry for double posting, if someone could merge these posts please do. ( Isn't done intentional, just forgot the last post was mine too )

So you race online - you are still racing, the point of which is to go faster, or be better (however that might be) than your opponents. Also, you mention simply enjoying the cars. Fine, but in what context? Just browsing and looking at them (which we can all do irrespective of camera angle), or do you mean driving them around aimlessly? The thing is, I don't get why people want to make out that the game is so much more than a racing game. It isn't. It's a game with cars and tracks and a few different game modes. That's it, nothing more, nothing less. Sure it has pretty cars that people like to collect and admire, but that doesn't mean the game is some kind of racing RPG or whatever. Sure, it has a reasonably comprehensive tuning element to it, while fun in itself, is only a precursor to the race itself, and why bother tuning if the aim is not to make it better/faster?

Don't get me wrong, I love the GT franchise and can't wait for GT5, but I have no problem accepting what it really is - a console racing game.

 

[ralph89]

I haven't been using the bumper cam in a long time, because for me the car seems too slow and the road bumps looks unrealistic, and when your breaking, the suspension seems like it's very soft in a weird way. It's mostly in-car view that I use, because I get better lap time with it. Maybe I'm slow at 2:18's NSX-R in Suzuka Circuit 550pp in GT5, which I can be sure that the Clio can beat. But I get those times with In-car view. I probably suck at bumper cam view, if you want to call me that, but driving in-car view is what I got used to. The only time I used bumper cam was back in GT 1 to 4 days which is just an arcade racer back then. But after playing some Rfactor and LFS I got used to it. So In-car view for me.

 

[machschnel]

If you play it for simulation you have to use cockpit view... other views are like cheating.

Cheating? How is that exactly? I'd say using any view on Gran Turismo is a handicap - none of them are exactly realistic are they. By the way, you realise the guy who won Time Trial recently used bumper cam? So he's a cheater right

 

[machschnel]

In real life you shouldn't be looking at the wheel when driving !!!

You are meant to be looking where you are going, could explain all the rammers online in Prologue I suppose.

I've heard this argument many times and to be honest, it makes no sense. You are 100 % right, when driving a real car I dont focus on the steering wheel and quess what? I dont in Gran Turismo either, It sits basically in my lap, in my hands about a foot below my level of vision, dont think I've looked at it once. However, if I use cockpit cam, there is a steering wheel and it's unavoidably in my field of vision. How am I meant to not look at it, squint?

 

[analog]

So you race online - you are still racing, the point of which is to go faster, or be better (however that might be) than your opponents. Also, you mention simply enjoying the cars. Fine, but in what context? Just browsing and looking at them (which we can all do irrespective of camera angle), or do you mean driving them around aimlessly? The thing is, I don't get why people want to make out that the game is so much more than a racing game. It isn't. It's a game with cars and tracks and a few different game modes. That's it, nothing more, nothing less. Sure it has pretty cars that people like to collect and admire, but that doesn't mean the game is some kind of racing RPG or whatever. Sure, it has a reasonably comprehensive tuning element to it, while fun in itself, is only a precursor to the race itself, and why bother tuning if the aim is not to make it better/faster?

Don't get me wrong, I love the GT franchise and can't wait for GT5, but I have no problem accepting what it really is - a console racing game.

Well if it is nothing more to you than just racing, fine, and not getting the fact some people make it out to be much more isn't my problem.
As someone who loves cars and car culture the game brings a lot more than a rather limited racing only approach, that you don't seem to appreciate or even able to understand that is you're godgiven right.

Yes i do drive around aimlessly, it's a game which i play for fun, don't set any aims for something which is just casual amusement in my spare time.
And when i feel like it, i race online with a different focus and mindset, but i love the fact it offers so much more and i'm not the only one who enjoys the riches it provides ( different contexts require different mindsets ).
And although i don't like RPG's it is somewhat similar in structure, like i said before if you want it to be a racing only sim it can be if you choose it to be.
It can also be just aimlessly driving around, testdriving and learning about cars, enjoying cars for other reasons than outright speed only, etc. etc.

It's about choice, offering things some might like and others don't, not just focussing on one aspect makes GT the immersive game it is, limiting that choice is also a choice.
Just choosing you're own context, and respecting someone else who has a different frame of reference or a more broadminded view or even a more narrowminded view.

 

[eSZee]

Don't get me wrong, I love the GT franchise and can't wait for GT5, but I have no problem accepting what it really is - a console racing game.

Don't get me wrong but if that was the case, isn't it called "The real racing simulator?
Racing and driving aren't the same thing. You aren't forced to only race, you can just jump in a car and drive or do whatever you want to it. My main objective in GT games has never been racing. It was just something I did between doing car setups or something I did to get certain cars.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

I've heard this argument many times and to be honest, it makes no sense. You are 100 % right, when driving a real car I dont focus on the steering wheel and quess what? I dont in Gran Turismo either, It sits basically in my lap, in my hands about a foot below my level of vision, dont think I've looked at it once. However, if I use cockpit cam, there is a steering wheel and it's unavoidably in my field of vision. How am I meant to not look at it, squint?

Dude, it's called "attention focus", if you are noticing the wheel when racing then you are clearly at a disadvantage, have you tried doing some mental exercises to try and improve your concentration?

Just a thought, but seriously, you shouldn't be noticing steering wheel's when you are in "race mode", there are techniques you can practice to block out or at least notice and then disregard unhelpfull information.


Out of curiosity, if you are in a competitive race with someone for more than a lap or two, do you still notice the wheel?, it's an entirely different thing to say you "see" the wheel and "notice" it during play, sure I see the wheel all the time, but I never pay any attention to it, so my mind manages to ignore it as it doesn't help me go any faster.

It's there for the times when you are viewing a replay etc, or someone is watching someone else drive, how weird would it look to have no wheel and no hands ! But again, the old grey matter would overcome this wierdness and after a few laps it wouldn't pay any attention to it.

 

[eSZee]

^tunnel vision?

 

[Cimanu]

I use cockpit because I like the dials etc. But when i'm going for it it's roof/hood cam. But in full game i'll prob use cockpit to see what the insides of all the cars are like :]

 

[TokyoDrift]

Well if it is nothing more to you than just racing, fine, and not getting the fact some people make it out to be much more isn't my problem.
As someone who loves cars and car culture the game brings a lot more than a rather limited racing only approach, that you don't seem to appreciate or even able to understand that is you're godgiven right.

Yes i do drive around aimlessly, it's a game which i play for fun, don't set any aims for something which is just casual amusement in my spare time.
And although i don't like RPG's it is somewhat similar in structure, like i said before if you want it to be a racing only sim it can be if you choose it to be.
It can also be just aimlessly driving around, testdriving and learning about cars, enjoying cars for other reasons than outright speed only, etc. etc.

Just choosing you're own context, and respecting someone else who has a different frame of reference or a more broadminded view or even a more narrowminded view.

Did I say it was your problem?! You can dress the foreplay up however you like - the fact is, your test driving and learning about the cars is for the same end-goal as pretty much everybody else who plays a racing game - to drive a car to the best of their ability to win a specific race, beat a certain time etc. Don't make the assumption that I don't understand, because I do. I just don't, as you say, appreciate it in the same way.

If you play it for simulation you have to use cockpit view... other views are like cheating.

Please explain your reasoning. Cockpit view with a static camera is, like the others, nothing like being sat in a real car, except you get a bit of eye candy and lots of restriction.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

^tunnel vision?

You might call it that, but it's not anywhere near the concentration required to be "in the zone" as they say, but if you are concentrating on what you are doing, driving a car as fast as you can, then your brain will filter out all the unnecessary stuff.

For instance, if I mess up a lap, I drive slowly for the remainder of the lap, taking in the sights and sounds my brain usually discards when racing, etc.

Then when I get to the start of the lap, all that pretty scenery might as well not be there, if you know what I mean?

On a side note, I use in car view because I think it the more "authentic" view, also, if I switch to bumper cam I am instantly a little faster, not sure why, but I still prefer in car view. I wouldn't call bumper cam cheating as such, I would just say that cockpit view is the more authentic and the one I prefer.

 

[analog]

Did I say it was your problem?! You can dress the foreplay up however you like - the fact is, your test driving and learning about the cars is for the same end-goal as pretty much everybody else who plays a racing game - to drive a car to the best of their ability to win a specific race, beat a certain time etc. Don't make the assumption that I don't understand, because I do. I just don't, as you say, appreciate it in the same way.

No some cars aren't even much cop at racing, still enjoy them for other reasons than speed ( yes that is possible ).
You make the assumption pretty much everybody plays the game like you play it, a lot probably do but a large amount of people don't or not all of the time.
I sometimes drive around the Nurburgring just for fun, without aiming to perfect a set up or even set a new Ring record or prepairing for a race ( all of which i probably already did ).
Just because i love that track and the car i'm driving in at that time without an end-goal and i love the prospect of doing that again using cockpit view.
So don't accuse me of assumption, when you assume everyone wants or should want the same experience you have, i do not want to limit myself or others to one way of playing a game.
Understand you're prefering a racing only game, you can, just don't expect everyone is pretty much the same, nuff said.