Why do the "Pro's" use bumper cam?

  • Thread starter Thread starter machschnel
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Just not progressive enough for a street tyre that's all, when it breaks loose, it's too sudden

But yes it drives better than Prologue on N3, but I think it's more to do with the better physics engine. Just easier to drive overall when your under the limit
 
CoolColJ
Just not progressive enough for a street tyre that's all, when it breaks loose, it's too sudden
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I think you're spot on with that. I have done track days on street tyres, the first few I was a bit slower but the last few have really shown me the lack of grip the street tyres has over the semi's. What is most apparent though is, just as you say, the progression of the loss of grip on a street tyre. Its not as sudden or sharp as the demo makes out. Particularly evident during change of direction on a chicane or such, towards the limit the car will start to squirm and move around on the tyres before braking traction completely.

I believe this is to do with the tyre model itself and not he actually physics of the game. With the right tyre model for each tyre, i believe the way the demo plays would be much more representative of real life.
 
kayman
I believe this is to do with the tyre model itself and not he actually physics of the game. With the right tyre model for each tyre, i believe the way the demo plays would be much more representative of real life.
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So, are implying that the tyre models are not physics based and are not part of the overall physics model?
 
airjoker88
Just needs a little more camera movement on acceleration and hard breaking



I wanna say "Oh shiat" while I'm driving :)
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it does quite a bit, pretty noticable with a controller in the normal car, hit accelerate and the nose lifts a lot.
But theTuned car in the vid above is a lot stiffer, harder and lower as expected. It's not meant move around as much

Much better than Prologue where the cockpit view feels really weird


TokyoDrift
So, are implying that the tyre models are not physics based and are not part of the overall physics model?
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Tyre moels can easily be changed, as witnessed by the different tyre compounds you can get in GT. But things like weight transfer and such are what you call physics
 
I only use in car,the cramped view in the Ford GTLM was awesome.



The vid doesn't show it that well,but on S2's with that view it adds that extra level of immersion,cant wait for it with the updated physics.

I do think there will be adjustment options,and hopefully if the headtracking is in and working it will step the immersion factor.
 
CoolColJ
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Tyre models can easily be changed, as witnessed by the different tyre compounds you can get in GT. But things like weight transfer and such are what you call physics
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Yes thanks cool, this is what I meant.
 
Gaz Vonhammer
I only use in car,the cramped view in the Ford GTLM was awesome.

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The vid doesn't show it that well,but on S2's with that view it adds that extra level of immersion,cant wait for it with the updated physics.

I do think there will be adjustment options,and hopefully if the headtracking is in and working it will step the immersion factor.
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Yes, but the thread title asks why PRO'S use bumper cam?! ;)
 
Funnily enough me and my brother have always used the outside the car view, I just prefer to be able to see more, but all my friends prefer the bumper view, and I only know one guy who actually uses the cockpit view, I like it, I think it looks great, but I'm slower when I use it so avoid using it. And I do think the camera is set too far back, in a real car my peripheral vision only sees the top of the steering wheel.
 
machschnel
I was quite excited when I first played Prologue - I'd never experienced a good cockpit view in a racing game and I'd heard Prologues' was one of the best. But when I started to drive in cockpit view it just felt wrong - seeing a steering wheel (a pair of hands as well) on screen when there is already one in my hands isn't that annoying, it's more the fact that a realistic view would not incorporate the wheel, or most of the dash for that matter. The odd thing is though, the general consensus seems to be that cockpit views are realistic, which I for one can not fathom.

Is it just me?

I don't think so. Sebastian Loeb, Lucas Ordonez, Kazunori Yamauchi himself, even most of the GT5 demo stands I've seen set-up are played through bumper cam.

Now I'm not saying bumper cam is realistic, but the cockpit view certaintly isn't. What I would propose is a view similar to one that can be found on Supercar Challenge. All you see is the windscreen and the very top of the dash - much more realistic. I know this doesn't give the greatest peripherals, but there is the option to "look" left/right to check for cars and if Eyetoy is implemented, the problem won't exist.
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man I hope PD doesn't read this forum....the cockpit view is amazing! you guys are dumb for coming up with all these little damn problems. you wonder why GT has been postponed and postponed again, maybe because they probably see all this; awwww the trees look like cardboard, awwww theres no skidmarks, awwww the cars sounds like vaccum cleaners and now the cockpit view is un-real....STFU! It makes me think this forum is full of goddamn 12 year olds, and seriously who wants to race with 12 year olds. Posts like this make me want to stop coming to the forums. All it is is negative CRAP! you should be complaining awww i dont have a ferrari Italia and never will! how can you HATE on a game that hasnt been released.

GROW UP THERE IS NO PERFECT VIDEO GAME! THE ONLY WAY TO GET WHAT YOU GUYS WANT IS....BUY THE CAR YOURSELF, YOU CAN PUT ANY KIND OF PART ON YOU WANT, RACE ANYWHERE YOU WANT, GRAPHICS ARE TOP NOTCH, PHYSICS ARE TOP NOTCH, FREE ROAM THROUGHT CITIES, EXCITING COP CHASES! LOL, as for PD great job guys cant wait to see the final product.

and this has been my rant of the day :ouch:
 
GTP_ProjectR
man I hope PD doesn't read this forum....the cockpit view is amazing! you guys are dumb for coming up with all these little damn problems. you wonder why GT has been postponed and postponed again, maybe because they probably see all this; awwww the trees look like cardboard, awwww theres no skidmarks, awwww the cars sounds like vaccum cleaners and now the cockpit view is un-real....STFU! It makes me think this forum is full of goddamn 12 year olds, and seriously who wants to race with 12 year olds. Posts like this make me want to stop coming to the forums. All it is is negative CRAP! you should be complaining awww i dont have a ferrari Italia and never will! how can you HATE on a game that hasnt been released.

GROW UP THERE IS NO PERFECT VIDEO GAME! THE ONLY WAY TO GET WHAT YOU GUYS WANT IS....BUY THE CAR YOURSELF, YOU CAN PUT ANY KIND OF PART ON YOU WANT, RACE ANYWHERE YOU WANT, GRAPHICS ARE TOP NOTCH, PHYSICS ARE TOP NOTCH, FREE ROAM THROUGHT CITIES, EXCITING COP CHASES! LOL, as for PD great job guys cant wait to see the final product.

and this has been my rant of the day :ouch:
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Awwww, somebody spat their dummy out...diddums. So, you come on here complaining about people complaining. A bit hypocritical don't you think? Why not take some of your own medicine and STFU yourself?

There is absolutely no need to go calling people dumb, and the old "if you want a perfect driving experience, go and buy and race a real car" is pathetic. What "problems" do you think people here created for PD? Have the facts do you? Did he tell you he delayed just because of a post he read on here? :rolleyes:

Personally, I happen to think that while it looks pretty, the cockpit view does not work too well as a fixed camera. Too much of the peripheral vision is lost. If you are happy with that and you like that view best, good for you. Not everybody feels the same way, and that's fine too. Calling people dumb for it, is not.
 
GTP_ProjectR
"you guys are dumb"
"It makes me think this forum is full of goddamn 12 year olds"

12 year olds call people dumb...please grow up or leave.
 
GTP_ProjectR
It makes me think this forum is full of goddamn 12 year olds, and seriously who wants to race with 12 year olds.
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Checks personal internet history... that's funny...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1199549&postcount=61
I had pretty good grammar for a six year old back in 2004. And when I was moderating on another site back in 2000, I had pretty good moderating skills for a two year old...

GTP_ProjectR
Posts like this make me want to stop coming to the forums. All it is is negative CRAP!
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Seems like perfectly calm, constructive criticism to me:

Now I'm not saying bumper cam is realistic, but the cockpit view certaintly isn't. What I would propose is a view similar to one that can be found on Supercar Challenge. All you see is the windscreen and the very top of the dash - much more realistic. I know this doesn't give the greatest peripherals, but there is the option to "look" left/right to check for cars and if Eyetoy is implemented, the problem won't exist.
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GTP_ProjectR
you should be complaining awww i dont have a ferrari Italia and never will! how can you HATE on a game that hasnt been released.
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How can he be hating on a game that hasn't been released when he's talking about GT5P and the TT-demo?

Do the words: "Get a grip" or "learn how to read" mean anything to you?
 
I'm a pro and I don't use bumper cam all the time :lol:

no no seriously. I think from experience the bumper cam can get me quicker lap times, I guess you have a much clearer view of the track and whats around about you with bumper cam. Perhaps that has something to do with it?
 
Heath_1
I'm a pro and I don't use bumper cam all the time :lol:

no no seriously. I think from experience the bumper cam can get me quicker lap times, I guess you have a much clearer view of the track and whats around about you with bumper cam. Perhaps that has something to do with it?
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That, and it's what you get used to and how quickly you can adapt. I almost universally use bumper or hood cam in racing games. No matter how much I try cockpit views, I always find them too restricting. The odd few in different racing games seem to be the exception for some reason, but until I get a 3 screen setup, or they implement an effective dynamic camera, cockpit views will always remain pure eye candy for me.
 
TokyoDrift
That, and it's what you get used to and how quickly you can adapt. I almost universally use bumper or hood cam in racing games. No matter how much I try cockpit views, I always find them too restricting. The odd few in different racing games seem to be the exception for some reason, but until I get a 3 screen setup, or they implement an effective dynamic camera, cockpit views will always remain pure eye candy for me.
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I found cockpit cam too restrictive too, Ford GT as an example, almost impossible to see anything besides your own car, bumper cam really enables me to clock faster laps but it takes away some of the unique character of each car that cockpit cam offers. Ford GT as example again: using the cockpit cam you get the perfect sense of height of that particular car, you feel really low on the road, the same sense that you get from an bimmer Z4, bumper cam takes this height sensation away, and that's a big loss to me. ;)
 
regnar
The bumper cam view is probably preferred because it's less distracting, seeing more of the track gives you more time to react to a situations.

My personal preference is using the cockpit view, though I still find it to be to too static,
the in-car camera appears be fixed, not independent of the car. The video below of GT5,
shows the drivers head/camera not really fighting much the with g-forces in the turns or bumps. the experience is still too calm.
After playing NFS:Shift barring some of it's faults, the camera seems to reacts to acceleration & deceleration, movement accross bumps etc.,
making for a more realistic experience.
Maybe allowing for adjustments of FOV & seat hight & some simulation of peripheral view might make the cockpit view more desirable.

The examples below are not meant to be a GT vs Shift, but that the movement in the cockpit view in GT could be enhanced a bit more.




GT5




NFS:Shift

:)
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The Normal 370z in the Time Trial moves around quite a bit more, as per a softer stock car and a newer build code

 
does nobody prefer 3rd person?
i like to actually see the car, the reason i play is because it's enjoyable to watch the race, including my car. Plus drifting looks sick from behind, first person view reminds me too much of that first initial d game that came out and was hogged by all the asian "drift kings". Its all good though once i played that game i realized its lame and never wasted another quarter on it again. Has anyone ever played battle gear 3? IMO opinion the most realistic/responsive game ive ever played, reminds me of driving my second gen fc in real life.

back to subject, i find first person way too artificial and find it hard to feel side motion, at least in cockpit view you can use the dash and hood to relate that motion to what the car is doing.

ill always stick with 3rd person tho, the way ive played since gt and welll before that
and cockpit view for fun sometimes, especially if if can get used to it or drive as fast as 3rd person
 
NosOsH
does nobody prefer 3rd person?
i like to actually see the car, the reason i play is because it's enjoyable to watch the race, including my car. Plus drifting looks sick from behind

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ill always stick with 3rd person tho, the way ive played since gt and welll before that
and cockpit view for fun sometimes, especially if if can get used to it or drive as fast as 3rd person
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Well, clearly somebody does! ;)

But, not me. I hate that view, as I find that you have no real sense of how much the wheels have turned until the car turns, and then you find you have overcooked it, so you counter steer, but you do so too much, and I often find myself weaving a lot down the straights.

As I've said, it's what you get used to, but I like to see where the car is pointing from something approaching the drivers perspective, so bumper, hood, roof, or cockpit cam. My post preferred being hood cam if available.
 
Bumper cam fan over here, have been driving the whole GT series with bumper cam, so it's second nature to me. The cockpit view is eye candy but ends up being too distracting. Some race cars have too much stuff on the way. The Denso SC430 for example, there's very little of the screen actually showing the race track, feels like sitting in a tank's driver seat, with very little forward visibility. Then there is that steering wheel moving left and right, the delayed shifts from the on screen driver.

Bumper cam in the end is more responsive and less intrusive.
 
I'm about as far from a "pro" as anyone could be without being a griefer, but I've found I drive a lot better in bumper cam. Dash view is fun for a while, but I always drive the best in bumper cam. Not sure why.
 
All I can say to everyone who says the fov isn't accurate becuase it shows too much, next time you are sitting in the car, look out the windshield at the car in front of you.

While still looking straight ahead, notice that you can see your whole dash, you can probably even see your lap!

Notice that you can see your sunvisors as well as a large portion of the roof of your car.

What many people fail to realize is that what you FOCUS on while driving is just what's visible outside the windshield most of the time, but a real field of view is quite large. If they didnt' include he full fov in the game which can't focus like your brain does) you would not be getting to see what you really see.
 
I'd love to drive with the cockpit view but it is just way too shaky and unrealistic. The bonnet view defenetely gives a small adventage as you can see further ahead and also in tight situation you can see how much room there is.

I've explained here why the cockpit view as it is now is useless for me:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4936735#post4936735

What pd should do is to provide two options we could turn off. The first one is an option to turn off the shaking, vibration and all other effects when driving in the cockpit view.

The 2nd option would be to have an option to turn off (hide) the steering wheel and hands when using the cockpit view. I already have a steering wheel and a pair of hands here and I don't need 2nd ones on the screen.

So to put it bluntly people use the bumper cams and bonnet view because the cockpit view just plain sucks.
 
I drive on the in car view as it gives me a greater sense of speed and rotation than bumper or roof cam.
also, has anyone who uses bumper cam tried it with all the hood off? the cockpit view is definitely best for realism, as in real life you don't get all the gauges you get in gt5, just the speedo and rev counter basically :P
as an added point, I can't drive yet, so it gives the best perception of being in a car
 

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