Why even Australia?

[Emmcee]

Has there been a game that has accurately recreated a city, end-to-end, 100 accurate? I can't think of any off the top of my head. I would imagine that these cities would be fairly large in real life, so it would be hard to even get a city accurately made in the process.

Yakuza and shenmue games did portray a pretty accurate area of Japan with recognisable land marks and such, initial d and it's down hill roads, identical to the real ones same as the mountain passes in the kaido racer games, the wangan and aqua line in wangan midnight so it certainly can be done. I think people are missing my point, what Iam trying to say is if they incorporated such iconic locations in Australia that are rich with tourism etc etc. that atleast that particular area should be as accurate as possible, then blend the surrounding areas in to where it's done. If Asetto Corsa can laser scan race tracks to make every bump and kerb exactly the same as its real life counterpart, Iam sure just implementing certain areas 100% accurate wouldn't be that hard, so there must be a reason behind why they did it this particular way. Only thing I can think of is to keep the racing flowing but if you had to slow and weave in and out of traffic I think that would be cool just as long as AI does the same and not just plow cars out the way.

 

[Northstar]

Iam sure just implementing certain areas 100% accurate wouldn't be that hard, so there must be a reason behind why they did it this particular way.

I'm guessing time is the main reason. developers that do insanely detailed tracks can do so as there is relatively little to model, pretty much just the track, pits and the scenery visible from the track (and they usually don't do that great of a job on the last one). Compare that to Horizon and other open world games where they have to build every detail on the entire map.

I get your complaints and to some extent I agree, but it's kind of like going to see an action movie, you just know the actors would never be able to survive but you suspend disbelief in the name of having a good time.

 

[Emmcee]

I'm guessing time is the main reason. developers that do insanely detailed tracks can do so as there is relatively little to model, pretty much just the track, pits and the scenery visible from the track (and they usually don't do that great of a job on the last one). Compare that to Horizon and other open world games where they have to build every detail on the entire map.

I get your complaints and to some extent I agree, but it's kind of like going to see an action movie, you just know the actors would never be able to survive but you suspend disbelief in the name of having a good time.

I just don't see how they just couldn't have photo scanned the locations they wanted and just computer generate them. I know I make it sound easier said than done but I just feel if they wanted to do it exactly that they could've but there's a reason behind it and that's open to opinion I guess but like I said, I do like the game anyway. Needs exhaust tip patch to allow customisation of the exhaust tip.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well, I wasn't thinking it should be 1:1 because very few games could generate maps that large.

I beg to differ concerning Driveclub it has at least recognisable sections for its locations (again, not to scale because no one really expects that.) Other than the Urban Scottish city, the locations and tracks were based on real location layouts, with some alteration. There have even been posts by users here taken from Google Earth for some of them.

There are recognisable sections of Australia in FH3, too. So, in light of the Narnia comment, I fail to see a difference.

Why is it acceptable in one title, but not in the other?

If Asetto Corsa can laser scan race tracks to make every bump and kerb exactly the same as its real life counterpart, Iam sure just implementing certain areas 100% accurate wouldn't be that hard, so there must be a reason behind why they did it this particular way.

Yeah, not too hard. A dense, highly-trafficked public area, with countless roadside variations in terms of buildings and scenery, versus the relative emptiness (both in surroundings, and traffic) of a race track.

To put things in perspective, Kazunori Yamauchi gave an interview before GT5's release about how then-new tracks based on real-world cities like Madrid took the team two years to complete. That's a relatively small bit of the city, and it's also the entire length of time between Horizon titles.

 

[Emmcee]

If they can make a life like street in gta 5 Iam sure developers could do the same thing but just make it as realistic as possible. You can get the correct surfers layout for the race circuit in various racing titles. I just feel it could be done if they wanted to.

 

[ImaRobot]

If they can make a life like street in gta 5 Iam sure developers could do the same thing but just make it as realistic as possible. You can get the correct surfers layout for the race circuit in various racing titles. I just feel it could be done if they wanted to.

Gta 5 is far from accurate. Very far.

 

[Emmcee]

Gta 5 is far from accurate. Very far.

How you know that? You from Los Santos?

 

[ImaRobot]

How you know that? You from Los Santos?

Los Santos isn't an actual place. Its a made up city loosely based off downtown Los Angeles and neighboring cities. Its not an accurate representation llike youre saying.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

If they can make a life like street in gta 5 Iam sure developers could do the same thing but just make it as realistic as possible.

Yes, Rockstar can indeed make a fairly life-like street in a completely fictional setting.

You can get the correct surfers layout for the race circuit in various racing titles.

How many of them are laser-scanned?

I just feel it could be done if they wanted to.

Which is true of most things. All evidence points to Playground not wanting to painstakingly recreate even part of a city though, and so far your idea that they could is predicated on little more than "because I want it".

 

[Emmcee]

Los Santos isn't an actual place. Its a made up city loosely based off downtown Los Angeles and neighboring cities. Its not an accurate representation llike youre saying.

I aware of that so even if it's similar to LA it doesn't matter as its there "own" city. In FH3 it's not, they claimed it was in Australia and can race through surfers, yeah you can but they don't state it's "there" version of the locations. Not that Iam really fussed anymore as Iam enjoying the game like I stated.

Yes, Rockstar can indeed make a fairly life-like street in a completely fictional setting.



How many of them are laser-scanned?



Which is true of most things. All evidence points to Playground not wanting to painstakingly recreate even part of a city though, and so far your idea that they could is predicated on little more than "because I want it".

my evidence is confirmed it is indeed possible. I asked my brother who was an ea games developer for the past 7 years and he said yes it can be done. However the main reason it's probably not is to do with copyright laws. All the little shops and businesses would have to be painstakingly removed and would take a long time, instead of just creating something similar to give you the vibe about the place. But then again he also said it depends on how good of a game they feel like making and what budget is available.

 

[SVX]

It's all about usage of resources. No where on the tin is it explained that it's an entirely accurate simulation of the areas within Australia, but instead a representation. It's much the same in visual art today - we are given an Australia that is presented to the player on how it's interpreted through media. The deserts, forests and cities all have the 'similarity' of being within Australia, without the dead accuracy of it. Why spend time on making it accurate if Joe from America or Adam from Ireland wouldn't have the faintest idea? Instead the map can be structured to be fun as possible so the players would be able to create a positive opinion on the area. If they were greeted with dull grids and straight lines everywhere, it'd be hardly exhilarating right?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I aware of that so even if it's similar to LA it doesn't matter as its there "own" city. In FH3 it's not, they claimed it was in Australia and can race through surfers, yeah you can but they don't state it's "there" version of the locations.

Except they did, as early as E3 when the game was officially unveiled. In numerous interviews Dan said it's an amalgamation of different parts of Australia; it's Playground's vision of the country.

Again, this is not a new concept: it's happened countless times in not just the driving genre, but just about every one in gaming history.

my evidence is confirmed it is indeed possible. I asked my brother who was an ea games developer for the past 7 years and he said yes it can be done. However the main reason it's probably not is to do with copyright laws. All the little shops and businesses would have to be painstakingly removed and would take a long time, instead of just creating something similar to give you the vibe about the place. But then again he also said it depends on how good of a game they feel like making and what budget is available.

I can only assume it's the same brother that conveniently appears when you need "proof" of your claims.

Of course it could be done, if a company had neither time nor budget restrictions. That's, uh... sort of obvious. And more or less what the rest of us have been saying this entire time.

Also: don't double post.

 

[SVX]

Except they did, as early as E3 when the game was officially unveiled. In numerous interviews Dan said it's an amalgamation of different parts of Australia; it's Playground's vision of the country.

Again, this is not a new concept: it's happened countless times in not just the driving genre, but just about every one in gaming history.

It's deepened further than that, even, within film - taking Tokyo Drift, for example which was primarily filmed in California despite being set, and titled as being within Japan. The mountain pass scene wasn't even one of the Japanese filmed areas, either, and it's noticeable to people who directly know the Californian and Japanese mountain passes that it's not accurate. But the difference is, despite all that was given to us that a Mustang and 350Z were racing on a dark mountain pass which could be anywhere, and in this case, America, the majority of the audience still believed it was filmed in Japan.

And why? The same reason the Horizon roads aren't dead accurate. Yes, the entire film could've been filmed within Japan, but why? If you can make it convincing enough, what's the point to beat a dead horse only few would acknowledge?

 

[ImaRobot]

I aware of that so even if it's similar to LA it doesn't matter as its there "own" city. In FH3 it's not, they claimed it was in Australia and can race through surfers, yeah you can but they don't state it's "there" version of the locations. Not that Iam really fussed anymore as Iam enjoying the game like I stated

Like I said, GTA 5 is not accurate either. Its far from it. There are things that resemble the areas ofthe cities, all fused into one map, but the actual representation of the city is off.

Its "similar" to LA much like FH3 is "similar" to Australia.

 

[Imari]

The immediate impression I got was it would be pretty accurate ...

Not entirely sure where you got that impression, as far as I'm aware they've been pretty clear in their marketing that it isn't an accurate rendition of any real place.

...so there must be a reason behind why they did it this particular way.

What's the reason for doing it your way?

 

[McLaren]

Well that's what street racing is about isn't it not? Racing on streets or similar type roads. If you want fast flowing bends do a race around spa on project cars.

First off, you realize the game actually separates street racing from the "festival" setting, right? The majority of road races in the game wall off intersections to keep the races restricted to the participants. All it's missing are barriers along entire routes, but other than that, the festival races aren't much different from real world races on city streets.

Second, street racing in real life and street racing in the game are 2 entirely different worlds. Street races in real life are done in less than a minute, and are never anything like what video games project them to be.

Gta 5 is far from accurate. Very far.

I don't think he's taken into account the enormous time frame Rockstar had to create Los Santos in the first place. They spent several months researching California for their inspiration.

 

[Emmcee]

Geez what's with the witch hunt people? I simply expressed my opinion and how I interpreted the game before release, I never said I hated the game, all I simply said was I was dissapionted it wasn't an accurate remake. That is all. Massive snowball effect here lol.

 

[NLxAROSA]

They needed a backdrop for an Australian-themed game, that's it. So they put in some Australian cars, Australian NPCs and provided a few Australian landmarks. No need to look further than that.

I don't think he's taken into account the enormous time frame Rockstar had to create Los Santos in the first place. They spent several months researching California for their inspiration.

Same for GTA IV, e.g. the borough where you start is a mixture of Brooklyn, Queens and Brighton Beach. All nicely fused together to give an impression of how these areas look in real life, but no bearing on the real thing.

Same for The Crew, which did it on a nationwide scale.

 

[Imari]

Geez what's with the witch hunt people?

What witch hunt? You voiced your opinion. A lot of people disagree and voiced theirs. Welcome to the internets.

Nobody has even been particularly rude. They've just pointed out that the game was never advertised as an accurate depiction (entirely the opposite, actually), and for various reasons having it be accurate would actually make the game worse.

Your response has been "...but ACCURACY".

 

[UKMikey]

Geez what's with the witch hunt people? I simply expressed my opinion and how I interpreted the game before release, I never said I hated the game, all I simply said was I was dissapionted it wasn't an accurate remake. That is all. Massive snowball effect here lol.

We're expressing our opinions too. I don't think anyone who played FH1 or FH2 expected this game to be geographically accurate so holding it up as a game failing seems a bit odd to most of us. The layouts in Shenmue, The Getaway and MSR all took longer to develop than FH3 and the driving is arguably not as fun.

 

[Emmcee]

Sorry I've taken some responses out of context by the look of it and I apologise but this seems to be my own fault for being to busy with AC,Dirt,f12016,PC, to even have a proper look into the game before hand. Like I said though, even though I was disappointed AT FIRST for not living up to expectations I've seemed to have set for myself, I've come to thoroughly like this game with all the different types of races available with different types of cars. Especially the inclusion of buggies. And it's a relaxing break from all my sim type games I spend most my time on. My main console is a ps4 and I have a g29 and full race rig setup and that's what I play most my games on so playing FH3 with a controller and just able to sit on the end of the bed in my room playing instead of full on race sims by my self in the spare room. So it's a nice break for me in that sense.

 

[MeanElf]

There are recognisable sections of Australia in FH3, too. So, in light of the Narnia comment, I fail to see a difference.

Why is it acceptable in one title, but not in the other?

Recognisable sections of a landscape and recognisable sections of road layout (even if liberally interpreted) surely aren't the same thing. My understanding of this debate is that the location Surfer's Paradise isn't recognisable in any of its road layout choices - that is the difference I am talking about.

...It's much the same in visual art today - we are given an Australia that is presented to the player on how it's interpreted through media. The deserts, forests and cities all have the 'similarity' of being within Australia, without the dead accuracy of it. Why spend time on making it accurate if Joe from America or Adam from Ireland wouldn't have the faintest idea? Instead the map can be structured to be fun as possible so the players would be able to create a positive opinion on the area. If they were greeted with dull grids and straight lines everywhere, it'd be hardly exhilarating right?

An interesting point there and I can certainly understand the rationale of the studio's choice in that respect. From the perspective of average people from the rest of the world though, I think you might be underselling their interest. I was certainly keen when playing Mad Max to see how the land portion of the game matched the Sydney harbour area and I'm always hearing of people heading out to Oz for an extended holiday. Australians too seem to be a proud lot as I've seen posts about a number of game that have a high proportion of Australian accents in it (well, Dead Island, Dead Island: Riptide and Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel) that the accents and cultural traits are a mockery etc. That could be just certain gamers though.

As for the full grid of streets, I don't think anyone was wanting that, just key locations.

Except they did, as early as E3 when the game was officially unveiled. In numerous interviews Dan said it's an amalgamation of different parts of Australia; it's Playground's vision of the country.,.

That is where the confusion might be stemming from then: An amalgamation of different parts of Australia to me says landscape - the physical parts - and of course, a bonus would be the lighting and atmosphere (most of which apparently they have captured well.) It just seems odd to create the amalgam of selected parts but then ignore how a city such as Surfer's paradise looks.

That's how it seems to me - I only dropped in when I saw that a few people were picking up on peripheral points of the OP instead of the key point.

 

[Emmcee]

Yeah I agree with that, if surfers is a main point then it should be accurate layout and surrounding areas of open road moulded to fit.

 

[Andrew R]

But it makes a pretty well un-drivable location. What would be the point of that? There's what, three long straight roads between basically southport and Broadbeach? Everything else is a tiny street between them or a one way street passed some shops? They have an esplanade, they have a basic gold coast highway, they have chevron-esque bridges, there's not really any other stretch of road in the area worth accurately recreating.

 

[ImaRobot]

Recognisable sections of a landscape and recognisable sections of road layout (even if liberally interpreted) surely aren't the same thing. My understanding of this debate is that the location Surfer's Paradise isn't recognisable in any of its road layout choices - that is the difference I am talking about

I'm not seeing it that way, since the examples his using of other games are no more accurate in any sense compared to FH3.

 

[Emmcee]

But it makes a pretty well un-drivable location. What would be the point of that? There's what, three long straight roads between basically southport and Broadbeach? Everything else is a tiny street between them or a one way street passed some shops? They have an esplanade, they have a basic gold coast highway, they have chevron-esque bridges, there's not really any other stretch of road in the area worth accurately recreating.

Your missing my point, the esplanade and in front of cavall mall should be bang on, there's not even a roundabout at the surf club end it at the look alike soul building. Cavill mall should look more than just an ally way. I just don't want people who have never been here go of that as how surfers is when it isn't. All surrounding areas are blended in like the game does it now.

 

[G219]

Would anyone here trade the graphics/lighting in Horizon 3 for the map size of The Crew (assuming physics, tuning, and all else stayed the same)?

 

[Switcher]

What did I just read

 

[Harakudoshi]

The best way to think about Horizon 3 is as the theme park version of Oz. it's what someone who's never been thinks Australia would look like.

My biggest issue is the part called the Outback doesn't really feel like it. The outback is flat and wide, hot arid desert. With lots of red sand and bush and scrub. Miles around with nothing but flat roads and desert.
The outback in the game doesn't feel like that. It's a splattering of hills with a bit of yellow Central African-esque sand, and surrounded by lush green farmland and forests. You never feel lost, looking up at sky that stretches to eternity, and a desert that does the same. They shoulda made the map about 2/3 bigger, and dedicated all that extra size to the outback. And made it less hilly. And include Ayers Rock. If they can include WA's pink lakes, they could've done Ayers as well.

Another problem is the roads don't feel like Australian roads. Aussie roads aren't this bloody wide, they're like American roads. Horizon 2 had the same problem. Shouldn't be able to fit 2 cars along side each other in one lane. Feels like they're race tracks designed for Supercars.

 

[05XR8]

That's the thing, they didn't incorporate any Supercars tracks. Surfers is driveable when laid out like the Gold Coast 500.

There's also no route to Mount Panorama. The Mecca of racing here. If the game is loosely based on Australia, at least those to locations could be accurate. T10/PG went through the trouble of allowing players to design their own races, drones, weather patterns. A drive around Bathurst both ways, pictures at the Bathurst Museum in front of the Brock statue, at top of the mountain for a photo op with other players, it all could have played out well.

I get the party atmosphere of the game. Thing is, the biggest "party" in Australian motorsport, is happening this week. I don't know what their budget was, but there is another missed opportunity.