Why GT2 never had a 60fps Hifi time trial mode as GT1?

[MadMax97]

With night tracks? Would it be amazing? Does it have to work with time costraints during development back then or hardware limitations?

 

[inkiphox]

Probably the former that you just said, if it ever existed at all in any point of GT2's development cycle and/or was being considered.

As well, GT1's HiFi mode doesn't use one of the graphics layers (to save resources), or something like that. Some of the 'backdrops' in the night tracks are missing if you look closely, maybe PD didn't want to do this again for whatever reason.

 

[Alex p.]

With night tracks? Would it be amazing? Does it have to work with time costraints during development back then or hardware limitations?

Good question.

Probably the former that you just said, if it ever existed at all in any point of GT2's development cycle and/or was being considered.

As well, GT1's HiFi mode doesn't use one of the graphics layers (to save resources), or something like that. Some of the 'backdrops' in the night tracks are missing if you look closely, maybe PD didn't want to do this again for whatever reason.

Good idea.

 

[Grayfox]

As well, GT1's HiFi mode doesn't use one of the graphics layers (to save resources), or something like that. Some of the 'backdrops' in the night tracks are missing if you look closely, maybe PD didn't want to do this again for whatever reason.

GT1s HiFi Mode did not have the buildings rendered, this would've reduced load on the GPU allowing it to do a crude 50fps/60fps

 

[inkiphox]

To be fair Rome-Night was the only 'night' track added, correct? (I haven't played the game in ages, might be wrong). Maybe that has some relation to why they didn't feel like carrying it over, there wasn't enough new stuff deemed 'reasonable' to use with the hifi mode that was worth it keeping around.

That, and it was basically a hi-framerate tech demo of sorts that PD were messing with out of curiosity if memory serves me right (and then actually managed to implement, more impressively, as a bonus mode), but it certainly did blow my mind when I first tried it out on Route 11 in GT1 lol.

 

[submaniac93]

GT Hi-Fi used its own variants of the tracks (unique files, i mean) with simpler track designs and scenery. The reason they used night tracks is very likely so you'd be less likely to notice the removal of half the scenery right away.
The most likely reason for it not coming back is GT2 is much more detailed and complex than GT1 ever was. Visually especially.
The average GT2 car almost has twice the polygon count, wheel models are 4 times more complex, so the game can't handle a clean 50-60fps even with simpler tracks.
Plus, it really was just a gimmick, and more of a tech demo rather than an actual feature anyways.

The feature being left over is more likely because GT2 runs on what's left of GT1's engine, at its core, and that frame limiter (pretty much what it is, 0 is 60, 1 is 30, 2 is 15 etc. you get the pattern) is part of that.

 

[inkiphox]

The average GT2 car almost has twice the polygon count, wheel models are 4 times more complex, so the game can't handle a clean 50-60fps even with simpler tracks.

This is something new I learned. I guess this solves the question in any case.

Plus, it really was just a gimmick, and more of a tech demo rather than an actual feature anyways.

Yeah, I kinda poked at that in my previous post. It's still cool though, lol.

 

[Grayfox]

The average GT2 car almost has twice the polygon count, wheel models are 4 times more complex, so the game can't handle a clean 50-60fps even with simpler tracks.

That makes sense.
After seeing how successful GT1 was, it is only logical to make sure you improve upon the first in terms of visual quality
Shame GT2 was rushed by sony, it could've been greater.
Less bugs, the Drag racing mode, additional cars?

 

[inkiphox]

additional cars?

I'm really unsure if this part of your post is a joke or not seeing as there's already about 600 of them in the game.

 

[pez2k]

I'm really unsure if this part of your post is a joke or not seeing as there's already about 600 of them in the game.

There are at least 45 cars known to have been cut at various points in development, so it's quite likely that some of them would have been finished off if the game had come out later.

 

[Grayfox]

I'm really unsure if this part of your post is a joke or not seeing as there's already about 600 of them in the game.

Some were cut.
Like the CLK-GTR that might have been added in if PD could get the licenses or had more time.

 

[Castrol96]

Some were cut.
Like the CLK-GTR that might have been added in if PD could get the licenses or had more time.

There's a weird issue with Mercedes, CLK GTR and 'CLK race car' sort of made their ways into GT3 and GT4.

Then there's the A Class, and two other Mercedes models which were cut I believe from GT6.

We saw A Class in GT Sport and they seem to have a Solid relationship with them recently.

 

[SestoScudo]

Some were cut.
Like the CLK-GTR that might have been added in if PD could get the licenses or had more time.

Some say EA is to be blamed for this as they took the CLK GTR for themselves.

Lots of rumours to be honest. Also the Mclaren F1 GTR was going to be in Test Drive 6 under the name of BMW still got cut.

Interesting how GT2 was going to feature Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Mclarens and Porsches thanks to licensing and maybe politics that these cars never made the cut.

 

[pez2k]

Like the CLK-GTR that might have been added in if PD could get the licenses or had more time.

The CLK-GTR was cut so early that not even the earliest demos feature the slightest scrap of it, unlike less famous cut cars like the HKS Celica and the Zonda. I'm not convinced that the screenshots of it were anything other than target renders. Even if they'd had another year I don't think it would have shown up.

I think they went for a DTM / ITC car instead, to match the Calibra and 155, but the C-Class DTM '95 was itself replaced by the CLK DTM 2000 concept from 1999, which was cut presumably when the revived DTM was announced to have completely different car performance to the mid-90s, as PD had reused the C-Class physics.

Interesting how GT2 was going to feature Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Mclarens and Porsches thanks to licensing and maybe politics that these cars never made the cut.

From the way the remnants of these cars are named, it looks like PD were trying to use a JGTC series license to get all of the 1997 to 1999 season cars. Unfortunately series licenses don't work that way, I believe they generally only include the teams, drivers and liveries, not the cars themselves. It wasn't just those that were cut either, there were three 1998 season Toyotas omitted too, suggesting more of an abandonment of the idea of covering the whole JGTC grid.

 

[inkiphox]

From the way the remnants of these cars are named, it looks like PD were trying to use a JGTC series license to get all of the 1997 to 1999 season cars. Unfortunately series licenses don't work that way, I believe they generally only include the teams, drivers and liveries, not the cars themselves.

Kinda reminds me of the Lamborghini Diablo fiasco with Gran Turismo 3 in this regard where they used a licensing loophole (going through the sponsors rather than the actual brand if I'm not mistaken) to have the car available in the Japanese version of the game.

There are at least 45 cars known to have been cut at various points in development, so it's quite likely that some of them would have been finished off if the game had come out later.

Given your post a lot of them were non-Japanese, wonder if PD scaled back due to the cost of international licences. (Or the fact there's obvious nationalism showing up, like the fact there were no European cars evidenced to have used dealerships, US ones did have them at some point before they were scrapped; kinda a theme with Japanese game-stuff in general - even to this day - for them to screw over/underrepresent everyone but themselves (and usually USA), particularly in niche genres of games like JRPGs. Yes, you read that right, they're a niche genre over here lol.)

 

[Grayfox]

Porsches thanks to licensing and maybe politics that these cars never made the cut.

RUF was PDs way around the Porsche licensing issue.

Good thing too.
It made that brand more well known and showed us some awesome cars like the CTR Yellowbird.

HKS Celica

Wish that car was in the game.
Not only do I like the look of the HKS livery.

But the HKS celica would've completed the set.

A FF HKS Drag
A FR HKS Drag
A AWD HKS Drag.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Wish that car was in the game.
Not only do I like the look of the HKS livery.

But the HKS celica would've completed the set.

A FF HKS Drag
A FR HKS Drag
A AWD HKS Drag.

It bugs me as well that we didn't have the complete set.

An obscure racing game on the PS1 (Option Tuning Car Battle R) has the R33 and Celica, but not the 180SX. Shown here on 11:50.



Part of me wishes HKS should've also built another one based off an NSX or MR2. Then we have all the drivetrains FF/FR/MR/4WD

 

[pez2k]

Part of me wishes HKS should've also built another one based off an NSX or MR2. Then we have all the drivetrains FF/FR/MR/4WD

I don't think the drag racing classes at the time distinguished between engine placements, just FWD, RWD and AWD, so for RWD HKS went for a traditional funny car with the 180SX, using the same sort of engine build as the GT-R. They did replace it later with a V8 Supra funny car though.