Why Kaz needs to go...

Do you think Kaz should retire from GT?


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Oh, I agree. There are some game types that get away with rehashing gameplay better than others as well. For example, story driven games need only be competent in terms of their gameplay and mechanics, because the real meat is elsewhere. A game can be completely ordinary to play, but still fun with a great story.

Unfortunately, for racing games traditionally they're almost entirely focussed on gameplay to the exclusion of anything else, so the fun has to come from gameplay. In those sorts of games you either innovate, which is the "accidentalness", or you're just another game.

I guess good developers build a solid base, then screen tons of new ideas for the ones that are really the most fun.

For me, story needs to correlate with the gameplay - you cannot just paint different stories over the same gameplay and expect it to gel in the same way. It's a matter of the cohesive whole, and requires serious design talent to achieve without masses of iteration (which still occurs with said talent). And most stories in videogames that I play are throwaway anyway, so the gameplay still counts. The only ones whose story matters most are those so-called "not-games", where gameplay is deliberately limited. Then you start getting into a whole discussion about "what is gameplay?", and for me the easiest answer is "all of it" - at least it should be.

When I say "accidental", I don't mean blindly stumbling around and going "ooh, this is good" when you find something that works. I mean, people know roughly what they want to achieve, but it's impossible to get it right first time, and to predict interactions with other systems (that holistic view again.) By taking mechanically similar games and applying different stories, or whatever, you are neglecting those interactions at the first step. That's what immersion is, that sense of cohesion in all of the game's systems.

One thing to be wary of when "screening for fun" is that a lot of developers use focus groups and other things that are popular in the film industry and elsewhere. This technique doesn't really work there, and is also responsible for a lot of the cabbage water that comes out of the games industry, in my opinion. "The most fun" depends on who you ask, so like you go on to say below, it's better that people / games are allowed to be what they ought to be, even if that makes them a total failure (usually a marketing issue, like the recent Thief game - not brilliant, not especially Thief-y, awful story and poor correlation between that story and the gameplay / level design etc., but better than the marketing implied).

The lines are blurring much more than they used to. Pre-3D graphics there were pretty strong limits on what was graphically possible and what sorts of games worked within those limitations. Nowadays, if you can imagine it you can probably have a fair go at doing it, or so it seems. A lot of great games are the results of taking what worked from two "genres" and sticking them together. And most of the best games largely ignore what people might expect them to be, and just do what they want.


GT arguably did this originally with aspects of racing games and RPGs. Unfortunately, the aspects that were so popular then really aren't so much now. Gaming has moved on from what was popular in 8-bit RPGs, but GT is still at heart the same formula. Possibly that's why some people feel that it's dated and needs an overhaul.


I still think Kaz is a perfect guy to have at the top. He's passionate, and from people that have met him extremely charismatic. But that doesn't mean that he needs to retain full creative control. He can be great at his job by promoting GT, supporting/motivating his staff and providing overall vision for what GT should be. Then people closer to the ground can figure out how to best make a game that supports that vision, and whether it's actually possible given the constraints that they know they have.

I remember an interview a long, long time ago where Kaz was talking about the importance of 1080p AND 60fps in GT5. He was mentioning how his engineers were saying that they could do one or the other, but that doing both just wasn't really going to be feasible. And Kaz said that he stuck to his guns, and eventually they found a way. The tone of the article was that it was his drive that pushed his team to make that breakthrough, but it struck me at the time as an example of not really listening to what the people around him were saying. Yeah, in the end they sort of pulled off 1080p/60fps, but it's pretty shaky and it remains so to this day.

I'm sure he has great staff around him, but perhaps he needs to pay a bit more attention to their opinions too. The days of big games being the creative vision of a single man (or woman) are largely over. One person simply cannot be expected to think of everything in a game of this size, and nor should they try to.

I think in more recent times Kaz has learned to do just that. Obviously he appears to take a personal interest in every aspect, and I think that's better than being only a "director", you definitely need that underlying technical knowledge (which would imply he knew the challenge with the resolution and framerate), the trouble is people like to take the easy route too often. The recent physics improvements and partnerships with the associated companies are probable promising evidence of Kaz trusting others, sound absolutely has to be, too (once it gets here). I can imagine people approaching Kaz, and him saying "what's the best way you could do it?" "What's stopping you now, what about the future?" Start now, and the future will be here sooner...

The developers at id constantly complained about Carmack's insistence on 60 fps in Rage (it uses a nice resolution scaling feature to manage the per-frame burden from moment to moment to maintain that figure better), and I'd say that's one of the best things about the experience, and will no doubt influence future games (or maybe they'll just try aping the fluid animations, and will be left with "floaty" nonsense in 30fps, and give up, because they missed the point). It's a nice thing to have, and graphics can be turned down a bit to compromise, it's not a real issue when that extra responsiveness counts for so much in an action game. Racing games benefit for similar reasons.

If we were just content with what came before, there wouldn't be any progress. It's better that these people work hard on solving such complex issues of balance, because that experience can be put to better use on future issues. It's better for them, usually, too. I'm sure there are plenty of examples outside of graphics, and I expect the new sound generation method was not without its detractors and difficulties, but arguably the game needs it more than better graphics, and if it's half as potent as I expect it could be, it'll be a game-changer. Whether people will think it was worth it, I couldn't say, even if I knew exactly what to expect.


I know that a lot of people think GT should be about racing, purely, but I don't think it ever really was. The racing was a backdrop for the relationship the player had with their car, specifically the driving. Lose a race? Was it me, or was it the car? Do I need to find a different car? And that is more in the sense of the aforementioned RPGs, (which I never really liked), more than something like GTR (which I also never really liked). It's like knowing you should be able to smash the gold time on the seasonals with an untuned car, but at what point do you admit your inadequacies and give in to making tweaks? Then of course there's the separate game with the leaderboards, which is more "traditional" tuning fare, but it still causes players to use cars they possibly wouldn't have otherwise.

Obviously, I'd prefer a more free-form approach to racing organisation in the game as an additional feature, and a return to the scale of player-car interaction encouraged by the much larger selection of "backdrops" (race events) in previous games, but I expect there is a real reason it's limited in the last couple of games: completion rate mainly, features to be added in the always-near future, the old formula feeling stale etc. Ultimately, there is probably an element of PD not wanting us to have that level of control, because you'll be less likely to try out so many different cars, which again is more the point of the game - the sheer breadth (not depth) of car selection. With new gameplay features (perhaps those planned for the near future), maybe that broadening of palette will be more natural for the general player, and any free-form racing / career aspects might follow.

Done in that way, PD can add features to GT that appeal to people asking for it to change, and simultaneously freshen up the feel of the game with their own ideas, without them having to change their fundamental approach and "philosophy". It'll just take time to find those solutions, I suppose, unfortunately.
 
986
Saudi Arabia
Riyadh
l1stPlacel
I'm going to step out of line here and I will get shot down massively by this but I have to say it.


I agree with him/her though.

I'm a little fed up of coming onto this forum to find more and more bitchy, whiny threads and posts from a bunch of anoraks complaining that a star in the sky isn't right, that the lighting is slightly off, or an update isn't on time. Games take ages to build and if they were easy to do then we'd all have our own by now and exactly how we want it.
If you can all make a game so well, with all the stuff you moan about on here, then why don't you all create your own racing game? Like they did with Project CARS (Community Assisted Racing Simulator).

If GT is so **** and Kaz needs to go then why don't you swap franchises? Get another racing game to replace it, hell, sell your PS3 and all of your games and buy Forza 5 or something. See how far away from the pram you can all throw your toys.

No one from Polyphony Digital gives a **** about what you all moan about on here. They have their money, their Ferrari's, their mansions. Why would they care about a few hundred people complaining like prepubescent girls about a game?.. Correct! They don't!
Be grateful they keep giving us free content and a game for you all to complain about.


I've said my piece and I will not defend myself against anything any of you may say as I cannot be arsed with it.

Chow.

Because even with all the negatives of GT6 its still top dog in the console business, and there's no other game that provides more cars (even if you delete duplicates), or tracks, and better physics. But when/if another racing game franchise reaches anything close to GT then you'll see a lot of people crossing over, provided that GT still has the same old problems and the other games don't.

Because they're basement dwellers! They have nothing better to do than complain!

Well, your an attic dweller who has nothing better to do than complain about complainers. :D
 
433
TRC_GeorgiaDawg
TRC GeorgiaDawg
Neither does deleting pointless posts like this one.

I think you guys should treat these types of posts even harsher. They are nothing more than a attempt to flame and troll people who are attempting to discuss their opinions of the game. If it were up to me I'd ban these people. I'd rather read a million posts by players/customers with legitimate complaints than one complain about complaining posts. All people like this do is derail otherwise productive threads with their childish hatred of anyone who dares have a problem with their favorite toy.

And this is a interesting topic. And a completely fair one at that. Video games now produce bigger numbers than high budget Hollywood films or sports teams. In fact, I see this topic as one that can compare very much with the coach of a sports team. Sometimes a coach "Kaz" can be in one place for so long that his message just doesn't get through to the team (the devs) and/or the fans (customers). It's not that he's a bad coach, in fact they are usually pretty good because they've been there long enough to have success and have their message grow stale.

What happens in these situations is usually one of two things. The coach is let go or he leaves on his own for another job. The coach goes onto to a new place and new job. With a whole new "team" his message is again fresh. He's envigorated and can go on to create new success.

The other thing that can happen is the coach is forced by management to hire new coordinators/assistant coaches. Typically the idea is to bring one in that can bring a new and fresh approach to a area where the team was struggling previously. For example, a football team might bring in a new defensive coordinator because they couldn't stop anyone the year before. This what I'd like to see in this case. Kaz is a legendary visionary. He has had undeniable success in creating a worldwide franchise in Gran Turismo. I think the problem is though is he's too focused on his vision that he can't see where he's failing. Which is gameplay. His vision has brought us the great physics and all the cars but on the gameplay side he seems stuck in 1998. The formula has not changed or adapted to the changing times and the changing technology. Which is where I think a new "coordinator" could be very effective. Someone who could take Kaz's vision and then apply new and fresh ideas to it regarding gameplay. The same old formula that has been there since GT1 is tired and stale...start off with crappy cheap car, race it, upgrade it, buy new car, repeat and repeat and repeat. Same for online. Online seems like a last second tack on in both GT5 and GT6.

So, I don't really have a option in the poll to cast a vote. What I'd like to see is Kaz stay, but have Sony force him to bring in someone else to handle the areas where the game is lagging behind where it should be.
 

Tenacious D

GT5 Standard rapscallion
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Nigel Fox
I think you guys should treat these types of posts even harsher. They are nothing more than a attempt to flame and troll people who are attempting to discuss their opinions of the game.
It would be fine if criticism was an actual attempt at discussion. Many, many, MANY times it is not.

By the way, Kaz really doesn't need am advisor, an assistant, an "occidental" consultant or wnatever. All he needs is for someone at GT Planet to wade through the sewage to find the real INTELLIGENT criticism and ideas for improvement and future development. We have plenty of solid ideas. Even I have a few. ;)
 

Vagabond

Biomechanics
Staff Emeritus
4,453
England
Teesdale
GTP_Vagabond
I'm going to step out of line here and I will get shot down massively by this but I have to say it.
You're entitled to your opinion, even if it is a little on the manic side of reason. A question though... Since when did the realisation that maybe no-one is paying attention make any difference to your opinions or the need to express them?

I'm guessing not very often, if ever.

Same for 99% of the rest of the human race.

The main difference between someone's opinion in a discussion forum and a game like GT, is that the opinions are already there and you can ignore them if you want, whereas GT cost us money and is part of a known and trusted franchise; that lends a certain air of expectation which, sadly, cannot now be ignored.
 
433
TRC_GeorgiaDawg
TRC GeorgiaDawg
It would be fine if criticism was an actual attempt at discussion. Many, many, MANY times it is not.

By the way, Kaz really doesn't need am advisor, an assistant, an "occidental" consultant or wnatever. All he needs is for someone at GT Planet to wade through the sewage to find the real INTELLIGENT criticism and ideas for improvement and future development. We have plenty of solid ideas. Even I have a few. ;)

I'd contend it is a attempt at discussion many, many, many more times than you're giving them credit for. From my experience, a complaint thread usually starts off fine with people discussing what they feel is wrong or needs to be fixed in pretty civil language. Then without fail people who think they're "defending" the game come in and start tossing inflamatory bombs (whiner, crybaby, entitled brats etc), which in turn turns the thread into a mud slinging competition.

And what Kaz does not need is some GT Planet advice. All due respect to this place, but it is again such a small part of the overall GT player community it is impossible to get a proper idea of what people really want. What Kaz does need is someone just like I said. A assistant coach who understands his vision, and also understands how to take that vision and get the most out of it. I think we can all agree that PD is not getting the most out of the potential that is GT.
 

Tenacious D

GT5 Standard rapscallion
Premium
7,449
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Nigel Fox
I'd contend it is a attempt at discussion many, many, many more times than you're giving them credit for.
Are you serious? This is the intranets, where napalm is the currency of the realm. And even in the early days, the caterwauling was rampant. It didn't increase in volume, much, it was always loud. Criticism like Griffith500 and I make are very rare. We're just not in the same universe, or your criteria for flaming is much lower.

Well, one more thing. What "people" want is all over the map. Casuals just want a lot of cars and tracks they can tear around or drift in. Some GT fans want nothing much more than GT4 HD. Some of us want GT Pro which has a section of PC sim style racing. How is one guy going to make that into a cohesive package that pleases everyone?

I do think my idea would. Basically, make GT4 HD with all the content from GT4, or most of the cars anyway, upgraded Standard cars and tracks and all that plus legacy tracks from previous GTs, all those events from GT4 through 6 and more, plus online and the stuff promised for GT6. And then add to it a GT Pro section of sim racing.

But see, that idea is already here, for free. No need for a new brainstorm guy.
 
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Squanto

GT1-2-3-4-5-6 Enthusiast
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Squanto666
I do think my idea would. Basically, make GT4 HD with all the content from GT4, or most of the cars anyway, upgraded Standard cars and tracks and all that plus legacy tracks from previous GTs, all those events from GT4 through 6 and more, plus online and the stuff promised for GT6. And then add to it a GT Pro section of sim racing.

But see, that idea is already here, for free. No need for a new brainstorm guy.

I really love the simplicity & beauty of your idea! Best post in days euh weeks even, Thanks!
 

Tenacious D

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7,449
Tetsumura / GTP_Tetsu
Nigel Fox
Thank you. :) I want to develop it into something comprehensive, and a post with that framework is sitting in a file. Just need to spend some time polishing that charcoal...

But truly, that post of mine is succinct and proven. Lots of people still love GT4's vast list of events and challenges. I raced them all, save for a few enduros. And a number of PC sim fiends talk a lot about that inclusion in GT7, including me. If Kaz would do that, bring back Race Mod and give us a Livery Editor, add in the online club and league manager stuff, with the Event Maker and Course Maker, GT7 would rule.
 
5,812
shmogt
I don't think he should retire. He made it what it is today. I just don't understand why they would take out things that were in GT5 from GT6. For example the copy tune feature. It took them so many months to put that feature into gt5 and everyone loved it. Was so easy to make a tune and just copy and paste it to another section (a, b, or c) to edit it a little more. For some reason they keep the sections, but take out copy and paste. It makes no sense. There are many other small things like that, that they took out. Gt6 should of been a minimum of gt5 plus more features. Instead it lost some really awesome things in gt5 and added just a few alright things. Doesn't really make it that much better overall.

However all these little problems could be fixed so easily to bring a better experience to the game. They seem a little scattered on the direction they want to go with it. Adding randoms features from one update to the next. Even in gt5 with the collecting horns and picture ticket things. What a huge amount of time and resources went into something that 0.01% would love. They could of used all that to make more cars premium which 100% of people would of enjoyed.
 

Tenacious D

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Premium
7,449
Tetsumura / GTP_Tetsu
Nigel Fox
^ Agree to just about all of it. I'd have to quote it all. ;)

Kaz really needs to look at what people have been loving about Gran Turismo through the series. And not just that, but what has people fired up about other racers. And he really needs to look into the communities in Europe and America, especially Europe, which buy the majority of his games. Making Pokemon collectibles for the small Japanese market has irritated most of the fans.

GT fans loved the huge number of events in GT4. Most people dig the huge car and track list in GT5 and 6, but lament that there's not much to do with them because the offline game is so small, and online features haven't been delivered. Plus, some people just want a solid single player offline game, like me.

Forza fans go wild for the Race Mod and Livery Editor features, and did love it when online tools supported user hosted events better.

PC sim guys love the league structure, entire racing seasons within those leagues, and wealth of tracks and events to enjoy them on, and most sims have great online tools.

And many of us want most or all of that in Gran Turismo. If Kaz could just keep in mind that his fanbase is overseas, and feed our tastes and needs - encompassing as much of the above as possible, he'd have no shortage of sales, and SONY would find a huge bump in PS4 sales.
 
433
TRC_GeorgiaDawg
TRC GeorgiaDawg
Are you serious?

I'm pretty sure I didn't make any indication that I was joking.

We're just not in the same universe, or your criteria for flaming is much lower.

The theory of a multiverse hasn't really been proven yet. (now that was a joke :sly:). And yes, more times than not it's the anti-complainers that come in tossing the gas on the flames. Fine example just a few posts above which you apparently like.....

......bitchy, whiny threads and posts from a bunch of anoraks complaining.....with all the stuff you moan about on here...... a **** about what you all moan.....complaining like prepubescent girls about a game.....Be grateful.....I cannot be arsed with it.

I guess that fits your ideas of intellectual currency. To me it's just rather obvious flaming/trolling. Especially when it continually comes from people who claim they're sick of reading complaints. Yet they find their ways into obvious complaint threads and oddly enough read and respond. :rolleyes:

Well, one more thing. What "people" want is all over the map. Casuals just want a lot of cars and tracks they can tear around or drift in. Some GT fans want nothing much more than GT4 HD. Some of us want GT Pro which has a section of PC sim style racing. How is one guy going to make that into a cohesive package that pleases everyone?

I do think my idea would. Basically, make GT4 HD with all the content from GT4, or most of the cars anyway, upgraded Standard cars and tracks and all that plus legacy tracks from previous GTs, all those events from GT4 through 6 and more, plus online and the stuff promised for GT6. And then add to it a GT Pro section of sim racing.

But see, that idea is already here, for free. No need for a new brainstorm guy.

What people want at GTP is all over the map. No doubt about that. But again, this is a small percentage. What most people really want? I think the vast majority would say they want a great racing game. That's where GT lacks. Granted, I never played GT4 so I have no frame of reference to that game. But I do have reference to PGR2, FM1 and FM2 which were at the time crushing GT in the online and racing gameplay department. Still, I'm not sure why you're so dead against my idea. New and fresh ideas are always a good thing. I think that's something even Kaz himself might agree on. Plus, might give him more time to get out there and really race and push that envelope.
 
926
machschnel
I'm a little fed up of coming onto this forum to find more and more bitchy, whiny threads and posts from a bunch of anoraks complaining that a star in the sky isn't right, that the lighting is slightly off

"As we became more focused and deeper in that project, worried about creating the stars and planets accurately, we started worrying about the details of the moon surface."

Guess who said that?

or an update isn't on time.

It isn't just one update - it's multiple updates, DLC, hell, even whole games haven't been on time.


Games take ages to build and if they were easy to do then we'd all have our own by now and exactly how we want it.
If you can all make a game so well, with all the stuff you moan about on here, then why don't you all create your own racing game? Like they did with Project CARS (Community Assisted Racing Simulator).

If I need to make my own game to judge another, wouldn't that go the same for you, regardless of whether your view is positive or negative?


See how far away from the pram you can all throw your toys.

OK, but no promises I'll get close to your effort.



No one from Polyphony Digital gives a **** about what you all moan about on here. They have their money, their Ferrari's, their mansions. Why would they care about a few hundred people complaining like prepubescent girls about a game?.. Correct! They don't!

It was at this point that I really started to take your argument seriously :rolleyes:


Be grateful they keep giving us free content and a game for you all to complain about.

Grateful? For what exactly? I don't generally feel grateful about things I've paid for, especially when they aren't finished. A few cars that are there to benefit large auto industry corporations don't really do it for me.


I've said my piece and I will not defend myself against anything any of you may say as I cannot be arsed with it.

Absolutely piss weak excuse. Stand up for what you believe in.
 

Tenacious D

GT5 Standard rapscallion
Premium
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Tetsumura / GTP_Tetsu
Nigel Fox
I'm pretty sure I didn't make any indication that I was joking.
Well, discussing the grouch factor is pretty pointless anyhow. People gonna do what people do, so no worries.

I'm not sure why you're so dead against my idea. New and fresh ideas are always a good thing. I think that's something even Kaz himself might agree on. Plus, might give him more time to get out there and really race and push that envelope.
It's not so much that I'm dead set against it, I wouldn't doubt that something positive would come of it. I have a sneaky hunch though that any guy who did get inserted into the team would be looked at by everyone there as an unwelcome barbarian intruder. Kind of like a class monitor, I remember them being not all that popular.

I get the impression that Kaz and the Polyphony team regard themselves as a sort of aristocracy, or some might see it as a mafia - and I'm sure many here would have fun playing with those ideas. :lol: But what I mean is that it seems to me that they silently resent SONY butting in on them and throwing down dictatorial orders like, "We'd really like GT PSP please (if you know what's good for you)," and "Add 3D to GT5 (if you want to keep your salary... and your job)." Whether or not those went down like that, it's an impression I've had that it feels like it to them. That if SONY suits would just shove off and play with their stock options and leave them bloody well alone, they could make the Gran Turismo they really want to. And to a lesser extent, they weary of the constant harping from the fans, though as many naysayers point out, criticism is an engine driving progress and improvement.

So with this mindset, I'm sure some outsider would have everyone going, "Oh god... please break a hip or something." And I am a little leery of unintended consequences, and this guy causing unnecessary friction. Then storming off in a huff, as he clutches his fat check.

And a community manager here... I can see that ending well too. ;) I mean, Jordan drops news hints, but how happy are the crowd here with that? I can see him counting fingers lately...

I would say that since things aren't likely to change either there or here, just keep making noise and putting things in the suggestion forum.
 
10,414
Canada
Canada
No one from Polyphony Digital gives a **** about what you all moan about on here.
Okay, that crossed the line my friend. If that's the case, then PD should fail and I'll root for pCARS. They should start caring because GT6 is at a 'garbage' state right now (hardy any features and problems people have encountered.) Now, I'm one of those people who defended PD for the longest time, but after GT6, it's time to wake up and face reality (Toko no blind no more yo).

So, yeah. Let PD cover their ears and continue ignoring every fan that SUPPORTED them throughout the years, because I predict GT7 will end up just like GT5/GT6 too. You know? 'Release it now and update later'.

Hey, that sounds pretty catchy. Release it now *boomboom* update later *boomboom* d(-_-)b Someone should make a song out of that. :)
 

Squanto

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Squanto666
The Sony bothersome part I can quite imagine that... (@Tenacious D 's post)
Last time around they probably bugged them with the payed credits system... <Sigh>
 
11,920
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Neomone/GTP_Imari
By the way, Kaz really doesn't need am advisor, an assistant, an "occidental" consultant or wnatever. All he needs is for someone at GT Planet to wade through the sewage to find the real INTELLIGENT criticism and ideas for improvement and future development. We have plenty of solid ideas. Even I have a few. ;)

We have the suggestions forum, which is a fairly organised way of presenting community feedback in a way that gets straight to the point and gives some indication of how important the community thinks each feature is.

Similar existed for GT5.

The information is there for PD to see, were they to try and look. I'd assume that Jordan or one of the mods has mentioned the existence of the Suggestions section to someone at PD, so they're likely aware of it.
 

SlipZtrEm

GTP Admin
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27,384
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SlipZtrEm
All right, look, one more post then I'm done with this.

So that's a no then, on finding anything to back up your claims?

But, Slippers doesn't see any marked improvements, so they don't exist. He never lost, so neither did we.

No matter how many times you make up a story and then repeat it, it doesn't make it true. Though note (again), that I actually posted a video about what I'm commenting on.

Okay, disussion over. Have a nice weekend.

Indeed it is over; so from now on, don't make up inane claims and put words in others' mouths. You've been warned about it before, so you'd be wise to actually heed it this time.

(EDIT) Missed a page; @Imari mentioned the Suggestion forum, and the different approach it provides in comparison to the old "Feedback" section during GT5 times was chosen by Jordan precisely because it makes it very easy to view requests for different aspects of the game in an orderly fashion. If people have ideas for future DLC (or even ideas for future GT titles), that's where they can go, and then you'll get a better - but by no means concrete, naturally - idea of what the community (here) really wants.
 
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172
United States
Florida
Maniacal_drifter
I just don't think you can have GT without Kazunori Yamauchi at the wheel (pun not intended). His vision and dreams for the franchise are what have brought it through 15 years to become (and remain) probably the zenith of console-based racing games (and I use game rather than simulator very intentionally). The guy's a genius.

He's also become a bit of a celebrity, though, and maybe bit distracted from the core of the game, it feels at times. I think he brings phenomenal concepts and visions to the series, I just do find myself wishing that maybe he had a bit more help on the administrative side these days. Don't get me wrong, I love that he's getting all of these amazing opportunities lately, but at the same time it feels as though his increasing presence outside of PD has led to a concurrent decrease in productivity within PD. His success is well-deserved, but I'm hard-pressed to see how he can be managing every detail back at PD while he's off running the N24, or Goodwood, or shooting "Kaz," or doing press junkets at car/video game shows.

Now it's entirely possible that they've already tried to shift some of the day-to-day administration of the franchise over to lower-level managers (although given Kaz' heart for the franchise, I'm not sure he'd accept that). Minor tweaks and improvements to the game are certainly coming, but I feel as though having a person dedicated to managing just those daily mechanical components that seem to be slipping through the cracks at PD lately would definitely improve the actual experience for us game players ourselves...
 
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United States
El-Cholo
I'm pretty sure that Kaz and some of the team are aware of these sims. While it would be okay to look at those games and try to copy something from them, I'd much rather that Kaz go attend a number of FIA GT, ALMS, DTM, B/WTCC, WRS, Formula 1 etc races, and bring back some videos. Then sit down with the team and say, "Let's recreate this, but more, and see if we can keep it fun."

And again, Turn 10 didn't create racing liveries or the livery editor, they just did one of the best so far. I'd still like to see a better one.
Well said my friend, big thumbs up to you.
 

Johnnypenso

Well known double poster
Premium
28,466
Canada
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
Are you serious? This is the intranets, where napalm is the currency of the realm. And even in the early days, the caterwauling was rampant. It didn't increase in volume, much, it was always loud. Criticism like Griffith500 and I make are very rare.
Best laugh of the week right there:lol: "Criticism like Griffith500 and I make are very rare." You mean like this?

"GT6 is great, fantastic, I even lose to the bots..yay it's so great".

"Chasing rabbits isn't racing"

"Yeah but Forza, Forza, PCars, Shift 2, Grid, Mario Kart, Forza...let's talk about everything but GT" :lol:

But I have to give credit where credit is due. A few more posts like this and we might find some common ground. :cheers:
^ Agree to just about all of it. I'd have to quote it all. ;)

Kaz really needs to look at what people have been loving about Gran Turismo through the series. And not just that, but what has people fired up about other racers. And he really needs to look into the communities in Europe and America, especially Europe, which buy the majority of his games. Making Pokemon collectibles for the small Japanese market has irritated most of the fans.

GT fans loved the huge number of events in GT4. Most people dig the huge car and track list in GT5 and 6, but lament that there's not much to do with them because the offline game is so small, and online features haven't been delivered. Plus, some people just want a solid single player offline game, like me.

Forza fans go wild for the Race Mod and Livery Editor features, and did love it when online tools supported user hosted events better.

PC sim guys love the league structure, entire racing seasons within those leagues, and wealth of tracks and events to enjoy them on, and most sims have great online tools.

And many of us want most or all of that in Gran Turismo. If Kaz could just keep in mind that his fanbase is overseas, and feed our tastes and needs - encompassing as much of the above as possible, he'd have no shortage of sales, and SONY would find a huge bump in PS4 sales.
There's just no reason GT can't pull much of the best from other games while retaining it's own character and not changing the core of the game. Options, options, options is always my warcry, the more options we have as gamers the better. The more things to do the better. Keep the core of the game intact, add other areas for us to explore if we see fit. Offer a way around the offline career if it isn't our cup of tea. Etc. etc. etc.

Before GT7 does any of that (it ain't gonna happen for GT6) they have to fix the core of the game. Whether Kaz can do this is the question. AI need to be at least industry standard with difficulty adjustment. Anything less in GT7 will be a travesty. Sounds need to be badly updated just to get near any other games. Standing starts, flag, qualifying offline etc.

Okay, that crossed the line my friend. If that's the case, then PD should fail and I'll root for pCARS. They should start caring because GT6 is at a 'garbage' state right now (hardy any features and problems people have encountered.) Now, I'm one of those people who defended PD for the longest time, but after GT6, it's time to wake up and face reality (Toko no blind no more yo).

So, yeah. Let PD cover their ears and continue ignoring every fan that SUPPORTED them throughout the years, because I predict GT7 will end up just like GT5/GT6 too. You know? 'Release it now and update later'.

Hey, that sounds pretty catchy. Release it now *boomboom* update later *boomboom* d(-_-)b Someone should make a song out of that. :)
Uh oh, Toko is saying goodbye to Bruce Banner, hello Hulk. Engage Beastmode!!!:mad::banghead:
 
2,403
Brazil
Curitiba
Kaz should stay as an icon, a mentor, a guidance to the "real driving simulator" concept. But PD needs a new game designer as fast as possible.

Kazuori wasn't a game designer, even when he started Poliphony Digital. GT and GT2 worked so well because, at that time, there weren't proper racing car games in console world, anything to compete against. They served to built the foundations of the series and PD.

But, as time passed, things changed: GT aren't the only racing game in the world, gaming design references are getting extremely complexes and we are playing a game that AI let you win with the same formula, and event names, that were seen on GT1.

Nowadays, Kaz is more of an image than a working asset. He is the PR guy, the racing driver who gets better with the game, the image of the passion about cars. He isn't a developer, a game designer guy, nor a visionary who'll push Gran Turismo to the great times of the past. He could stay, but he should hire people do design and develop a game to the 2014, 15, 16, 17... consumer, not the 98 guy (that I was).
 

Tenacious D

GT5 Standard rapscallion
Premium
7,449
Tetsumura / GTP_Tetsu
Nigel Fox
Before GT7 does any of that (it ain't gonna happen for GT6) they have to fix the core of the game. Whether Kaz can do this is the question. AI need to be at least industry standard with difficulty adjustment. Anything less in GT7 will be a travesty.
I really don't see anything like an industry standard bot A.I., other than polite cruise missiles which don't do a lot but keep a steady pace. If GT7's bots didn't overbrake in turns or the leaders slow down on the last lap, they would probably be the best in racing games. They have a little personality, without being crash happy tards as with a certain competitor.

We'll just have to see what happens, like everyone else stuck in the timestream.

it feels as though his increasing presence outside of PD has led to a concurrent decrease in productivity within PD. His success is well-deserved, but I'm hard-pressed to see how he can be managing every detail back at PD while he's off running the N24, or Goodwood, or shooting "Kaz," or doing press junkets at car/video game shows.

Now it's entirely possible that they've already tried to shift some of the day-to-day administration of the franchise over to lower-level managers (although given Kaz' heart for the franchise, I'm not sure he'd accept that). Minor tweaks and improvements to the game are certainly coming, but I feel as though having a person dedicated to managing just those daily mechanical components that seem to be slipping through the cracks at PD lately would definitely improve the actual experience for us game players ourselves...
One thing to take into account is that Kaz serves as a senior vice president at SCEI, so now he has corporate suit duties besides his racing "hobby." I can imagine he took that promotion with very mixed feelings, because I'm an artist too stuck in a bureaucracy, and we don't do well in that environment. He probably chafes at every function he has to deal with, and it likely hurts his time in Polyphony. I don't know how much time he has to spend at SONY, but he probably thinks every minute there is a minute forever lost.
 
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Johnnypenso

Well known double poster
Premium
28,466
Canada
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
I really don't see anything like an industry standard bot A.I., other than polite cruise missiles which don't do a lot but keep a steady pace. If GT7's bots didn't overbrake in turns or the leaders slow down on the last lap, they would probably be the best in racing games. They have a little personality, without being crash happy tards as with a certain competitor.
In 8 or 9 months (fingers crossed:lol:) this will be the new industry standard...in case you can't tell...the video game is on the right:lol:
 

Tenacious D

GT5 Standard rapscallion
Premium
7,449
Tetsumura / GTP_Tetsu
Nigel Fox
in case you can't tell...the video game is on the right:lol:
Thank you. I've been trying to keep quiet the fact that I can't read. ;)

It'll be interesting to see if P CARS can pull off humanlike A.I., because supposedly it's currently broken. Or anyone - and for SIMBIN to teach their bots how to navigate a chicane, though I have no knowledge of Race Room so maybe they have.

It still has to be less like a typical sim to be really cool, so we'll see how that goes too.

One more little thing. That driver view in P CARS looks great, and would be one small detail inclining me to get it. But the real deal is learning what we can do with those street cars. In Gran Turismo, I can "race mod" up a Ferrari, Lambo or Spirra and enter it in races with race cars and see how well it goes. And that's what I have the most fun doing in GT6. From the 240SX to the Ferrari Enzo, the car list in GT6 is luxurious, so that's really going to be the deciding factor for me. If I can do a ton of Forza-like things to those few dozen sports cars, they might get a sale from me.
 
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349
United Kingdom
London
fatkidgoblin
fatkidgoblin
I have never been one to participate in online forum talk. It has always been hard to sometimes understand peoples points of view from typed messages or convey my own. Others just act act in a manner which they wouldn't do outside of the internet. So find it easy to get away with in the virtual world. For these reasons I have usually stayed away. However, this topic has made me feel compelled to do so.

Having played every iteration of GT, and having brought two consoles specifically - which I am sure alot of other people on GTplanet have done as well - I am not sure it gives me more right to voice my opinions on this franchise that we all love or loved at one point, but it does give me some insight on my once favorite video games franchise, and it's gradual decline.

Now I am done with my introduction. Bear with me. Here is my two cents:

So much was promised with GT6, as it was with GT5 before it. And the promises haven't been kept, up until now! I honestly do not know of any other developer with such a bad track record. Or in this age of internet and communication, such lack of feedback to the buying public. Yes, the promised updates might arrive, but when? Alot of gamers might have moved on by then and feel cheated or disenchanted.
Yet, Kazunori Yamauchi finds time to take part in real GT races and participate in a documentary about himself. Yet he, and his company have recieved the profits of a unfinished product, with no idea if or when it will be completed.

I give you an example:

Say you hire a builder and his employees to build you an extension to your home. Something you could enjoy during an important family occasion, or the during the summer season. Say he draws a plan. Shows you prints, ideas, photos of what the extension might look like. You pay him the full amount of money for the labor and material costs. The work stops, and you were left with just a basic room, with no electricity, heating, or a big open patio. Things that you had payed for beforehand, believing you wouldn't have to wait long for it to be all completed. But now have no idea if or when they will be included. You have not been contacted by the main builder. And find out he is enjoying himself, indulging in his favorite pastime; mountain climbing? Would you be not be happy? Feel cheated? Yes, the amount of money involved would be to a completely different level. But can't parallels still be drawn between the two?

I know of no other developer that charges £20 for a larger than a glorified demo in the GT prologue editions. Consistently fail on their promises. And give complete lack of information on when these promises will be met. The amount of sales PD makes from the full and prologue versions far out do other racing game franchises, despite GT6's slow sales. Therefore, they are making enough profit to hire more staff. More sales, means more profit, means more money to spend. So what is their excuse to not hire more staff? It certainly isn't the lack of good programmers available. Other devolpers have proved that by, upstaging PD in some areas. and with alot less experience than the 15 years that GT has existed. But like they say, 'If you are already number 1, then why try harder?' I, along with other impatiant buyers am partly to blame.

Kaz has made himself available to the public eye. He is willing to accept awards. Streets named after him. Documentaries filmed about him. He is willing to accept the accolades that come with being the creator of the GT franchise. He has allowed himself to be put in the spotlight to accept the praise for GT's positives. He has chosen to be the face of GT. Therefore, is it not only fair that he accepts shortcomings, and the buying publics backlash of the franchises negatives?

I have voted yes with the other 29%.

Thank you for reading my post.
 
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