Why Kaz needs to go...

Do you think Kaz should retire from GT?


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R34EVO9

(Banned)
767
United States
USA.CT
h3llaflshh
See it would be a big diffrence if fan boys where the ones getting mad . But every time I go to play gt6 there's no one to race with.. you know why?? Because 90% of them gave up on the gt series when they messed up the pp in gt5. Now that the true fans of the series are getting fed up with the bs I agree that its time for a. Change. To many bad decisions are being made and no one is communicating anything to us. Jordan had to go out of his way to ask them if them if the update was even dropping. In my eyes that's unprofessional
 

Squanto

GT1-2-3-4-5-6 Enthusiast
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641
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Squanto666
I still think Kaz is not the problem here .... it's Sony's timelines which he has to obey to .... no matter what...

His silence might well be his defense ...
and maybe he is now talking to the Sony executives ... "look what mess you brought me in "

just an idea ....
 
2,404
Brazil
Curitiba
I still think Kaz is not the problem here .... it's Sony's timelines which he has to obey to .... no matter what...

His silence might well be his defense ...
and maybe he is now talking to the Sony executives ... "look what mess you brought me in "

just an idea ....

Thing is, GT6 is the only game they released on time. So...

And it isn't unreasonable ask to PD develop more. How many Forzas were launched on the last few years? Naughty Dog always deliver massive games, and they launched four of them on PS3. PD barely made two (the second one came out when PS4 was on the shelves). Rockstar did three (four, if you take LA Noire) enourmous games in the last generation...

This is why I do believe that GT7 is in the works to be launched later this year. PD can't afford to lose another start of generation.
 

MustangManiac

TeamJaguarUSA
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2,120
United States
Chicago
mustang622006
Didn't I read where Kaz said they were working on the next installment (GT6) before they released GT5? This is what they have after 3+ years of development? If I was Sony I would have told him to get off his 🤬 and get the game out the 🤬 door also! It's not like they were working on a brand new game, it was just a further development of an existing one for crying out loud. I don't think this would fit most peoples definition of tight time lines or rushed development.
 
11,222
United States
Chicago, iLL
GTP_Nismo
Nowadays, Kaz is more of an image than a working asset. He is the PR guy, the racing driver who gets better with the game, the image of the passion about cars. He isn't a developer, a game designer guy, nor a visionary who'll push Gran Turismo to the great times of the past. He could stay, but he should hire people do design and develop a game to the 2014, 15, 16, 17... consumer, not the 98 guy (that I was).

But the 2014, 15, 16, 17...consumer plays gt5/6 as if it was that 98 game.
GT5/6 have little in common with gt1/2 and in my opinion, that's part of the problem.
 
2,404
Brazil
Curitiba
But the 2014, 15, 16, 17...consumer plays gt5/6 as if it was that 98 game.
GT5/6 have little in common with gt1/2 and in my opinion, that's part of the problem.

Little in common? It's the same game, with much more cars and tracks, and improved visuals. The only thing that set 5 and 6 apart is that everyone is very tired of the same game, same formula, over and over again. Even the racing events on career mode have the same name, laps and structure...

In GT and GT2 we were in awe due to the fact that it was all new, nobody saw it coming. It was a very awesome game back then because we simply didn't know better.
 

Johnnypenso

Well known double poster
Premium
28,466
Canada
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
I still think Kaz is not the problem here .... it's Sony's timelines which he has to obey to .... no matter what...

His silence might well be his defense ...
and maybe he is now talking to the Sony executives ... "look what mess you brought me in "
just an idea ....
People mention Sony, Sony, Sony all the time as if that's some kind of an excuse for the state of GT6. Do you think they walked into Kaz's office on November 25, 2013 and said?, "Hey Kaz, remember that GT thing? Yeah, it's a go for December 6, pick up the pace a bit"

Everyone works on a timeline, that's business. To be successful in business you have to meet deadlines and be able to work with your partners to do so. If he's not capable of meeting those targets with the massive budget he has then that would be even further argument towards his replacement. Remember too, he's been there for 20 years now, I'm sure he's got a feel for how things work with Sony.
 
11,222
United States
Chicago, iLL
GTP_Nismo
Little in common? It's the same game
If you're only taking cars, tracks, and visuals under consideration, sure.
GT1/2 were great because while being challenging during license tests, they were very fun while racing. They didn't take themselves seriously when it came to being driving sims. You could dive bomb corners and ride walls to your advantage. Less limitations when it came to races.
The driving feel was just different enough to put it a couple steps above ridge racer, test drive, and NFS. Playing GT1/2 now just makes you laugh, in a good and bad way.
 
2,404
Brazil
Curitiba
If you're only taking cars, tracks, and visuals under consideration, sure.
GT1/2 were great because while being challenging during license tests, they were very fun while racing. They didn't take themselves seriously when it came to being driving sims. You could dive bomb corners and ride walls to your advantage. Less limitations when it came to races.
The driving feel was just different enough to put it a couple steps above ridge racer, test drive, and NFS. Playing GT1/2 now just makes you laugh, in a good and bad way.

Yes, all of that are true, but this racing feel that you mention is due to lack of power on PS1 console, rather than a concious game design.

And you still could dive bomb corners in GT6...
 

Squanto

GT1-2-3-4-5-6 Enthusiast
Premium
641
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Dordrecht
Squanto666
Thing is, GT6 is the only game they released on time. So...

I beg to differ ... What about the missing features ... They were "on time" with less then in GT5 ... And with a four year development cycle ...

Naughty Dog ... Kojima/konami are always on time with a complete game ... Flawless and complete ...

People mention Sony, Sony, Sony all the time as if that's some kind of an excuse for the state of GT6. Do you think they walked into Kaz's office on November 25, 2013 and said?, "Hey Kaz, remember that GT thing? Yeah, it's a go for December 6, pick up the pace a bit.

Yes, I think so, but lets say in august 2013, when it got clear Driveclub had to delay ... And GT6 still had a window until Q1-2014

What about DriveClub and SecondSon and WatchDogs ... Sony made them launchgames... But within 6 months they had to be delayed .... Is it the developer or Sony who is really wrong here ... Strange thing that four different developers are in trouble and can't meet the deadline ...

I think the developers knew perfectly which timelines it would need, but sony had other interests ... Launching PS4 before MS XB1 ...
 

Tenacious D

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7,453
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Nigel Fox
How many Forzas were launched on the last few years? Naughty Dog always deliver massive games, and they launched four of them on PS3. PD barely made two (the second one came out when PS4 was on the shelves). Rockstar did three (four, if you take LA Noire) enourmous games in the last generation...
Two major Gran Turismos, yes. But to be clear, PD has actually been pretty busy since the release of GT4 in February 2005.
  • Tourist Trophy, February 2006
  • Gran Turismo HD, Christmas Eve 2006
  • GT5 Prologue, December 2007 (Japan), April 2008 (NA)
  • GT PSP, October 2009
  • Gran Turismo 5, November 2010
  • Gran Turismo 6, December 2013
So considering all this activity, it's not like PD was tinkering with GT5 for five years straight. In particular, getting GT PSP ready for the 2009 holiday sales required the entire team to stop working on GT5 and focus on the PSP game.

I'm going to do some speculating. Which means pondering a few details and ruminating on them and making projectionated thoughts about what they might mean in the time space continuum. What I blame on the odd form that GT5 took was SONY insisting that Kaz do something to enhance the appeal of the game to the home market. And so the game which was a western oriented vast world to explore in GT4 became a casual-oriented short game with two sides, A-Spec / B-Spec, with a lot of collectible Pokemon style things to do in GT5. And some of this carried over into GT6, though I see GT6 as a rushed game trying to capitalize on the 15th Anniversary of GT, as well as the last big holiday sales season for PS3. Another factor involved, my opinion again, is that preliminary work on a PS4 game had to be shelved as SONY decided it was going to be a PS3 game. It's possible the shiny new GT6 engine was pared back from the engine built for PS4 and extensively tweaked for the Cells weird architecture. Kas hasn't been very open about this period or the goings on in PD with this project, and I doubt he ever will, as a loyal corporate officer. All being hypothecated and guesstimations within my head and all that.

By the way, one more thing to remark on.

In 8 or 9 months (fingers crossed:lol:) this will be the new industry standard...in case you can't tell...the video game is on the right:lol:
I was so enamored with the nice graphics and my adopted driver view in P CARS that I hadn't noticed the whole point of Johnny P's post.

These bots are the same old boring cruise missiles that... well, bore me. And make PC sims so boring. Can you tell they bore me? :P

I'm hoping that in GT7, and possibly maybe with a patch in GT6, we get the bots we have now. BUT the cars don't overbreak around turns, they don't give up when you get a one second lead on them, and the leaders don't slow down on the lead lap. This would produce a nice tight field and some competitive racing, and better single player experience than the usual racing game.
 
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Johnnypenso

Well known double poster
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Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
Do you have links to support this:
In particular, getting GT PSP ready for the 2009 holiday sales required the entire team to stop working on GT5 and focus on the PSP game
What I blame on the odd form that GT5 took was SONY insisting that Kaz do something to enhance the appeal of the game to the home market.
Another factor involved, my opinion again, is that preliminary work on a PS4 game had to be shelved as SONY decided it was going to be a PS3 game.
 

Tenacious D

GT5 Standard rapscallion
Premium
7,453
Tetsumura / GTP_Tetsu
Nigel Fox
Do you have links to support this:
In particular, getting GT PSP ready for the 2009 holiday sales required the entire team to stop working on GT5 and focus on the PSP game

From EDGE Online:

The PSP version’s been a long time coming. What challenges has it posed?
There were a lot of obstacles: the small screen, the lesser CPU power, the lower graphics processing power, and the small amount of memory. We went through and checked out a lot of the other racing games on PSP, and there’s not a single one that lives up to the Gran Turismo quality. We had to work very hard to get it to that level.

So what makes a GT game on PSP?
All of it, really – there was an unbelievable amount of material that had to make it on to this machine.

As a percentage, how much of Polyphony is working on this version, as opposed to Gran Turismo 5?
The balance varies from day to day. A lot of companies, when they make a PSP version of a game, license the development out to another company. There were times when 100 per cent of our efforts were on the PSP.


There was quite a debate about it at the time, and a lot of resentment that GT PSP would delay GT5, possibly a year or more - it did. The other stuff I posed as my opinion. You might note that I specifically mentioned Kaz hasn't discussed any of it. And I don't have telepathy or his personal email addy. ;)
 

Johnnypenso

Well known double poster
Premium
28,466
Canada
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
From EDGE Online:

The PSP version’s been a long time coming. What challenges has it posed?
There were a lot of obstacles: the small screen, the lesser CPU power, the lower graphics processing power, and the small amount of memory. We went through and checked out a lot of the other racing games on PSP, and there’s not a single one that lives up to the Gran Turismo quality. We had to work very hard to get it to that level.

So what makes a GT game on PSP?
All of it, really – there was an unbelievable amount of material that had to make it on to this machine.

As a percentage, how much of Polyphony is working on this version, as opposed to Gran Turismo 5?
The balance varies from day to day. A lot of companies, when they make a PSP version of a game, license the development out to another company. There were times when 100 per cent of our efforts were on the PSP.

There was quite a debate about it at the time, and a lot of resentment that GT PSP would delay GT5, possibly a year or more - it did. The other stuff I posed as my opinion. You might note that I specifically mentioned Kaz hasn't discussed any of it. And I don't have telepathy or his personal email addy. ;)

Quite a leap to go from:

The balance varies from day to day. There were times when 100 per cent of our efforts were on the PSP.

To:
In particular, getting GT PSP ready for the 2009 holiday sales required the entire team to stop working on GT5 and focus on the PSP game

"There were times" could mean a few hours or a few days. Your liberal interpretation of that quote makes it look like everything was dropped in favour of the PSP and that cannot be proven from the quote you gave.

You mentioned Sony insisting Kaz appeal to the home market but you didn't say it was an opinion, you stated as if it was a fact, which of course it's not.
 

Tenacious D

GT5 Standard rapscallion
Premium
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Tetsumura / GTP_Tetsu
Nigel Fox
"There were times" could mean a few hours or a few days.
Oh brother... I think a few days work by the team would yield a few headlights and turn signal models. ;)

Hey, maybe it could be that a few headlights really needed to be done, and a few windows in buildings, and the software guys needed two more races coded, or the game would be delayed till February like GT4 was. So they had all of Polyphony drop what they were doing for a few hours to crank those out...

You mentioned Sony insisting Kaz appeal to the home market but you didn't say it was an opinion, you stated as if it was a fact, which of course it's not.
Oh dear... ;) Fine, I'll go back and edit my post so that only a person who can't read, like me, would miss it, though the post makes no sense unless you take it as speculation, ya know, "Kaz never mentioned any of this."
 

Vagabond

Biomechanics
Staff Emeritus
4,453
England
Teesdale
GTP_Vagabond
That will do for derailment I think. We have enough wild conjecture to last at least until GT7 is released.
 
974
Sweden
GOTHEBURG
what he needs is sit 4hours with GT planet members and have a real live Q&A.
Split up each hour in topics.
Sound, Online, Physics, GT7
 
986
Saudi Arabia
Riyadh
l1stPlacel
Normal old-school companies try to go from point A to point B in a straight line. The "new way of thinking" young companies go from the same A point to the same B point, but they do it going sideways. Basically doing the same job, but in their own way.

Now PD is neither. It's a family company with no board of executives even. Yes PD is a part of Sony, but I feel that Sony -weather we like it or not- fully trusts PD/Kaz. Although the only thing that they might push Kaz in doing is releasing titles within timelines they both agreed on. Even if there were projects and project managers in PD, it won't be/work the same way as other mainstream companies or even governments.

I'm sure PD wanted all the cars and tracks to be premium/night-day/weather. And when they set the timelines in which how each team is going to move and do what, when, where and how; they ran into a few bumps that can turn sometimes down the line into big hills.

So each time they say "ok, we made that mistake. So next time we know how to do it right." Then guess what happens ? ... When "next time" turns up there's a new set/types of bumps that they never encountered before. And there goes the merry-go-round.

In reality, if they never ran into any bumps we would have what we want and when we want it (even if they seem to be understaffed). But that's not reality is it. So does PD employ more people just incase/when a bump comes along ? .. How would PD know where the bump is going to be so they would heir for that area ?

I don't know what to think anymore. :boggled:
 
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78
United Kingdom
wales
ccvampyre
What is Kaz's vision of GT as a VIDEO GAME (I seriously don't care that GT becomes a big name in car industry...if that does not make the game any better... I don't care about GT Academy if it does not make the game better...) ? The guy lost track about what makes a good game and what does not... I mean: at this point, does he even care what fans think? Still no official GT forum. Still no official english speaking PR, miscommunication everywhere, ...

And for those who say that it's not Kaz fault if the PS3 is not powerful enough... seriously guys... this is the worst defense ever. Working in a constrained environment is the core of a producer's job. If Kaz did not want eye candy everywhere, GT would have a smooth framerate, great sounds and...yes...probably no accurate constellations. That just shows that his sense of priorities is all over the place.

So now, who here thinks Kaz should leave to let someone else renew the series with fresh ideas and a real vision?

Frankly, at this point, i think it's a fair question.
...............................................................................................................................everything above line is a quote


Frankly, I think you need to go live in Ethiopia for a month, come back, and just sit down and be quiet.
Life is amazing when you can enjoy a game of gran turismo and Kaz is to blame for that. What did you ever do?[/quote]

Just totally irrelevant sorry
 
53
United States
Cleveland, OH
ChipChaserJ
...............................................................................................................................everything above line is a quote


Frankly, I think you need to go live in Ethiopia for a month, come back, and just sit down and be quiet.
Life is amazing when you can enjoy a game of gran turismo and Kaz is to blame for that. What did you ever do?

Just totally irrelevant sorry[/quote]
which part? the comment or how I didn't understand how the posting system works?
 
10,456
Canada
Canada
Is that really the problem? If anything, they've been too lenient. What would he do if it wasn't for Sony, one game every 25 years?
No way I'll wait for a game THAT long. O.O In fact no one should wait that long, even if he or she is a fan of said franchise. :crazy:
 
986
Saudi Arabia
Riyadh
l1stPlacel
Is that really the problem? If anything, they've been too lenient. What would he do if it wasn't for Sony, one game every 25 years?

Car manufacturers usually do model overhauls every 4-6 years ... So 5 years is fine by me, as long as the cars are updated at launch or through DLC, and there's no missing features at launch.

Edit: and all cars are full premiums :D

Edit: Kaz did say that the way GT6 is made makes it easier to update. So the only reason there's going to be GT7 is PS4. When GT7 is released on PS4 it will be the only GT on PS4. No need to bring out a new game, just updates.
 
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C_Raccoon23

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Is that really the problem? If anything, they've been too lenient. What would he do if it wasn't for Sony, one game every 25 years?

Yeah. I couldn't believe Kaz said he wanted 2 more years to work on GT5.
 
409
England
United Kingdom
Rob--M--
I think it just goes to show what PD are like when this site is their loyal fanbase and yet they can see all our unhappiness with the situation and they can't just say " Hi guys , sorry for the delays we willl have some updates soon"
 
158
England
York
TOM_GT_DRIFTERZ
For me, Its not "Kaz needs to go" its "Kaz needs to wake up, there is competion nowadays, people are gonna stop buying your games if you dont wake up"
C'mon Kaz, this is a wake up call.
 
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