Why So Many Vettel Haters?

[Sach]

Ken Block hasn't won any championships... in anything. Neither has Danica, though oval racing is quite fickle.

Vettel won a number of karting trophies, won Formula BMW, came second in F3 (behind... Di Resta), and was leading Formula Renault before being recruited permanently for F1. He has managed to create records for youngest driver in F1 to score a point, win a pole position and win an F1 Grand Prix. All before he got the RBR gig. After joining RBR, he became youngest champion, youngest double-world champion and scored the record for the most poles.

He was exciting to watch in cars that were not top-of-the-ladder, even though there were times when he made "rookie mistakes". That his drive in the RBR is not as exciting is more the fault of other teams not fielding a strong enough driver-car combo to beat him. McLaren-Hamilton should have been close, as he's the only one who could consistently push for poles against RBR (given Alonso had very little car to work with), but Lewis has had a spectacularly bad season.

This. 👍

 

[Dapper]

But Danica's hot

Reality begs to differ.
http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/dan...to_gallery_pictures#tab=most_recent&id=104741

On topic- I am a fan of every Red Bull athlete including Seb. 👍

 

[astrosdude91]

And seriously, I can't have an opinion?? I simply think he's overrated!

You can have an opinion. But it would be nice if your opinion was actually based on something.

 

[Camaroyenko]

Ken Block hasn't won any championships... in anything.

...Exactly why I can't stand him. Like I said, he's stupidly overrated for not winning anything.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm glad someone posted that as I was about to just now. Thought I'd check first...

You've got to hand it to Vettel - he's immensely talented and he comes across as an incredibly likeable chap too, with a genuinely good sense of humour.

I've come under fire from Vettel fans occasionally this year for saying that if anything, his talent and the dominance of the Red Bull actually makes him a fairly dull person to watch when racing - and I stand by that. Vettel's victories this season, by and large, have just been dominant victories, not special ones.

While he remains at the top we'll never really see whether he has that Schumacher/Senna/Button/Mansell-like ability to come through the field, picking off drivers one-by-one and making the race incredibly exciting, and as a result I still struggle to like him as a driver (though his sheer speed is mightily impressive).

Next year I want to see the competition at such a level that it makes it tougher for him, and I want to see him have some bad luck or make a bad call that puts him in a difficult position so we can finally see the breadth of his talent - and then I can feel comfortable about liking him in the car, and not just out of it.

 

[astrosdude91]

Seb is actually pretty funny! His Raikkonen impression was spot on!

I think that video shows that Vettel is an immensely likable guy. And even though you may not like to see him race, whether it be because your favorite driver is beat, or that the races turn dull when he is up front, it's hard not to like him based on his personality.

 

[m8h3r]

I don't hate Seb, I don't even dislike him, not by a long way. Its hard to hate someone who can potentially be the best current racing driver in the world. The only thing that annoys me is the whole season dominance, I want to see 50+ laps of racing not hot-lapping. I think we saw a small glimpse of what he can do this season but I think he lead 75ish% of the laps this year.

I really wanted to see Vettel have a new tyre put on in Abu Dhabi because a last to first possibility is mouth-watering. In my opinion there is one person who could go toe-to-toe with Vettel and thats Lewis Hamilton, unfortunately he has been in a "bad place", as he describes it, for all of this season. His form in the last few races has been hopefull for a more wheel-to-wheel championship next year. I'd love to see Vettel/Hamilton and Alonso, it's a shame but I don't think the Ferrari is able to compete.

 

[Raikkonen1337]

I love Vettel and am happy for him and the guys at Red Bull, he is close to my age im 25 he 24 and its amazing to see someone come up and win these races at being so young. I think most people hate him cause he dominated the 2011 season, but they shouldnt hate him for that, RBR had an amazing year, the other teams just were not on the same level, so i say hate the team your going for if they are not winning, dont hate the winner for having their gear together.

But with this dominance, im excited to see how next year will be, Ferrari having not won a CWC or WDC since kimi left, and Mclaren with Button will more than likely try to pressure RBR alongside competing against Ferrari and also the ice man is back so im glad to see how he will do at Lotus. I am excited

 

[maSonn09]

I'm glad someone posted that as I was about to just now. Thought I'd check first...

You've got to hand it to Vettel - he's immensely talented and he comes across as an incredibly likeable chap too, with a genuinely good sense of humour.

I've come under fire from Vettel fans occasionally this year for saying that if anything, his talent and the dominance of the Red Bull actually makes him a fairly dull person to watch when racing - and I stand by that. Vettel's victories this season, by and large, have just been dominant victories, not special ones.

While he remains at the top we'll never really see whether he has that Schumacher/Senna/Button/Mansell-like ability to come through the field, picking off drivers one-by-one and making the race incredibly exciting, and as a result I still struggle to like him as a driver (though his sheer speed is mightily impressive).

Next year I want to see the competition at such a level that it makes it tougher for him, and I want to see him have some bad luck or make a bad call that puts him in a difficult position so we can finally see the breadth of his talent - and then I can feel comfortable about liking him in the car, and not just out of it.

Remember his win in the Torro Rosso some years back. Think that's a good example of talent.

 

[Ardius]

I've come under fire from Vettel fans occasionally this year for saying that if anything, his talent and the dominance of the Red Bull actually makes him a fairly dull person to watch when racing - and I stand by that. Vettel's victories this season, by and large, have just been dominant victories, not special ones.

Monaco was pretty special, I don't know about you, but I thoroughly enjoyed watching that victory, despite the safety car and the red flag mucking it up.

But lets be fair, why is it that Vettel is blamed for not having interesting wins? Its pretty difficult to make a race interesting when you have one of the fastest drivers, in the fastest car, starting from pole. Pretty obviously, under normal conditions, this results in him running off to victory.
This isn't a trait of Vettel alone, Schumacher had this issue too, or has everyone forgotten how boring that period was?

Funny that, the drivers people prefer over Vettel, tend to make mistakes in the season and sometimes or even regularly do not perform to their maximum every race. Not to mention very few drivers have had such dominant cars at their disposal.

The reason Lewis Hamilton isn't doing what Vettel does is not because he is a more interesting driver. Its due to his own mistakes and the fact he's never had a car that could do that.
Button has had a car that could do that, and guess what, some of his wins in 2009 were relatively boring on the face of it. He did have to fight for some of them but others he easily won (Melbourne, Monaco, Turkey after the first lap).

I don't accept that Vettel is a boring driver. Circumstances play more of a part in making his wins boring than his driving. Lack of serious competition from his teammate and the other teams as well as the lack of his own mistakes means he is untouchable. Why should it be described as a weakness of Vettel?

 

[Blaze_409]

Anyone ever think that Vettel doesnt care? And that he has enough money to make people disappear if he wants lolololol.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Right, because the "KGB" actually stands for Komitet Gosudarsebvettel Bezopasnosti ...

 

[Raikkonen1337]

Monaco was pretty special, I don't know about you, but I thoroughly enjoyed watching that victory, despite the safety car and the red flag mucking it up.

But lets be fair, why is it that Vettel is blamed for not having interesting wins? Its pretty difficult to make a race interesting when you have one of the fastest drivers, in the fastest car, starting from pole. Pretty obviously, under normal conditions, this results in him running off to victory.
This isn't a trait of Vettel alone, Schumacher had this issue too, or has everyone forgotten how boring that period was?

Funny that, the drivers people prefer over Vettel, tend to make mistakes in the season and sometimes or even regularly do not perform to their maximum every race. Not to mention very few drivers have had such dominant cars at their disposal.

The reason Lewis Hamilton isn't doing what Vettel does is not because he is a more interesting driver. Its due to his own mistakes and the fact he's never had a car that could do that.
Button has had a car that could do that, and guess what, some of his wins in 2009 were relatively boring on the face of it. He did have to fight for some of them but others he easily won (Melbourne, Monaco, Turkey after the first lap).

I don't accept that Vettel is a boring driver. Circumstances play more of a part in making his wins boring than his driving. Lack of serious competition from his teammate and the other teams as well as the lack of his own mistakes means he is untouchable. Why should it be described as a weakness of Vettel?

x2 good post sir

 

[Blaze_409]

Right, because the "KGB" actually stands for Komitet Gosudarsebvettel Bezopasnosti ...

lol.

I did not know Vettel was a double agent with the KGB as well as the German Secret Service. hehehe. That man gets around.

on another note. How many people say "V"ettel? FWIW germans say "F"ettel. v is fau.
I say Vettel because i like the sound better.

 

[YellowG1]

90% of the posts here seem to be pure unadulterated adulation for Vettel and the 10% that aren't pro-Vettel seem to only say that he's a great driver but he's had a dominant car. So... where are all these supposed "Vettel haters"?

 

[The Outlaw]

90% of the posts here seem to be pure unadulterated adulation for Vettel and the 10% that aren't pro-Vettel seem to only say that he's a great driver but he's had a dominant car. So... where are all these supposed "Vettel haters"?

Good question

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http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/12/paul-di-resta-vettel-won-because-he-had-the-best-car/

“Vettel won because he had the best car” Posted on December 11, 2011

There is an interview with Paul di Resta in Gazzetta dello Sport today, ahead of an important week for the Scotsman, as he waits to learn of his confirmation in a race seat for 2012.

That announcement is due to be made on Thursday.

Di Resta was famously team mate to Sebastian Vettel in F3 back in 2006 and beat him in equal cars. The Scotsman is a year older than his celebrated former colleague and took longer to break into F1 because he didn’t have a BMW or a Red Bull to push him forward.

Invited to draw conclusions from what their past says about their relative situations today, Di Resta takes the bait,

“We had the same car, same engine, same tyres and I beat him,” said Di Resta. “I don’t want to diminish Vettel’s achievement (this year), but he won the championship because he had the best car. He did his job, but another driver in the same car would probably have achieved the same results. I hope one day to have the same opportunity.”

This is fighting talk from Di Resta and rather surprising, as he is normally pretty guarded in what he says. It smacks of jealousy of course, but he clearly wants to talk himself up and the fact that he feels he can say something like this illustrates that he’s obviously feeling confident with a new contract in his pocket. The expectation is that Force India will move forward with him and Nico Hulkenberg.

It is a comment that will play well with the fans who diminish Vettel’s achievement.

He says that his target for 2011 was “Only to prove that I deserve my place on the grid,” and notes that “in midfield you have around you three or four teams all running in more or less the same way,” so it’s a real battle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why you hatin', Di Resta?

 

[corporatesteve]

Remember his win in the Torro Rosso some years back. Think that's a good example of talent.

No its not.

Sebastian Bourdais who was the teammate had a time of 1:38.445 while vettel had a time of 1:37.555. However the first 2 qualf section times were nearly identical.

How can a driver like sebastian bourdais who had a terrible season was able to get into grid 3 on qualifying? its the car. They both used the same crappy car that got them to the front. Funny thing is Bourdais was viewed as the winner for that race but we all know what happened to him at the start.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

How can a driver like sebastian bourdais who had a terrible season was able to get into grid 3 on qualifying? its the car.

Okay first of all, Bourdais was fourth. Not third. And he started the race from pit lane.

Secondly, look at the Q2 times of some of the other drivers - Vettel was fastest with a 1:35.837, but Kimi Raikkonen and Lewis Hamilton were eliminated in fourteenth and fifteenth with a 1:37.522 and a 1:39.265 respectively. How do we account for this? Simple: tyre choice. With the weather closing in, Vettel made the right call. The likes of Raikkonen and Hamilton blew it.

Funny thing is Bourdais was viewed as the winner for that race but we all know what happened to him at the start.

Huh? How was Bourdais the "winner"? He started from pit lane because he stalled on the grid - his fault - and finished the race in eighteenth position, one lap behind Vettel.

 

[f40]

No its not.

Sebastian Bourdais who was the teammate had a time of 1:38.445 while vettel had a time of 1:37.555. However the first 2 qualf section times were nearly identical.

How can a driver like sebastian bourdais who had a terrible season was able to get into grid 3 on qualifying? its the car. They both used the same crappy car that got them to the front. Funny thing is Bourdais was viewed as the winner for that race but we all know what happened to him at the start.

Bourdais was "viewed as the winner", when he qualified 0.9 seconds slower?

Seriously man, Vettel didn't just win that race, he took 9 points finishes (inc. 7 top 6s) and finished 8th in the championship in his first full season, having already scored on his debut at Indy and 4th in China. If that doesn't point towards a very talented driver, then you, in your infinite wisdom ought to enlighten us all.

 

[corporatesteve]

Bourdais was "viewed as the winner", when he qualified 0.9 seconds slower?

Seriously man, Vettel didn't just win that race, he took 9 points finishes (inc. 7 top 6s) and finished 8th in the championship in his first full season, having already scored on his debut at Indy and 4th in China. If that doesn't point towards a very talented driver, then you, in your infinite wisdom ought to enlighten us all.

Bourdais’ race time was four seconds faster than Vettel’s. This make me believe that if bourdai had not stalled he would of won.

This graph shows the difference in seconds between the two drivers at the end of each lap. It’s created by adding together their lap times and calculating the difference between their cumulative time on each lap.

This gives us a much clearer impression of how the gap fluctuated – and where the mystery four seconds came from. Being behind and having the rain spray problem could have also affected this. There were many factors involved ( fuel strategy, tire trims, etc etc ). However, Its a clear indication that the results from Monza were more based on the car and not the driver.

 

[Blaze_409]

All seem to be missing 1 concept including DiResta and Bourdais.

So what if you beat Vettel in one season or in a single race. Do you think that drivers just sit on their laurels and stay slower than you. Has DiResta or any other inconsiderate ever considered the fact that Vettle has improved tremendously as a driver. Is that unfathomable that Vettel is faster than he was as a driver in his F3 days or in his Torro Rosso days?? Is he suppose to remain a slow driver. Then what the hell is the purpose of Torro Rosso??Clearly Buemi and Alguersari are getting faster than when they started out. Those DiResta comments are borderline ridiculous and reek of jealousy as has been said....Pompous....If he was so good then why didn't Mercedes snap him up?

Who cares about F3 days? Romain grosjean was a GP2 champ and he was junk in the renault that Alonso won in....

 

[f40]

Bourdais’ race time was four seconds faster than Vettel’s. This make me believe that if bourdai had not stalled he would of won.

This graph shows the difference in seconds between the two drivers at the end of each lap. It’s created by adding together their lap times and calculating the difference between their cumulative time on each lap.

This gives us a much clearer impression of how the gap fluctuated – and where the mystery four seconds came from. Being behind and having the rain spray problem could have also affected this. There were many factors involved ( fuel strategy, tire trims, etc etc ). However, Its a clear indication that the results from Monza were more based on the car and not the driver.

Considering that the field was under the safety car for the first couple of laps, the gap started at 117 seconds, not 164, and ended up at 160. While there are some factors involved, it doesn't back up at all your earlier claim that Bourdais would have won the race, since he ended up 43 seconds slower. The F1 Fanatic article you ripped your "evidence" from also stated- "It seems Bourdais just couldn’t match Vettel’s pace. It’s not the kind of data he’d want to see when his race seat for 2009 is on the line."

At the end of the day, Vettel didn't even just win that race in 2008, he took 9 points finishes, including 7 top 6s. He finished 8th in the championship ahead of numerous cars you wouldn't expect a rookie in an STR to beat, which only fits the pattern of his 2007 debut and Vettel's success and talent he has showed since then in the Red Bull.

 

[Fo Shizzle]

Becuz he has Vette in his name and everyone hates the Vette. /s

 

[F1 fan]

Who cares about F3 days? Romain grosjean was a GP2 champ and he was junk in the renault that Alonso won in....

Alonso never won in that car. He won two races the year before. One in questionable circumstances, the other a well deserved victory.

 

[Peter.]

People are underrating the STR3. Everyone wants to believe that it was a rubbish car and Vettel brought it to where it was on pure talent alone.

 

[Northstar]

People are underrating the STR3. Everyone wants to believe that it was a rubbish car and Vettel brought it to where it was on pure talent alone.

It could be argued though, look at how Bourdais did throughout the season.
Monaco- RET
Canada - 13
France - 17
Britian - 11
Germany - 12
Hungary - 18
Europe - 10
Belgium - 7
Italy - 18
Singapore - 12
Japan - 10
China - 13
Brazil - 14

That just screams mid-field car.

During that same span Vettel's worst non-retirement was 12th in France.

 

[Peter.]

This is Bourdais we are talking about. Great driver, yes, but we all know how he struggled to adapt himself to F1. He needed more time, and having a STR seat, meant that he wouldn't get that time with many other drivers waiting to step up as well.

He needed time to learn the tracks, too. The time spent away from the European tracks really hurt his performance. He'd have probably done better ad he entered F1 in around 2003.

 

[F1 fan]

All I'm reading in that post is excuses, excuses, excuses Peter. Seems to be the norm from you.

 

[Peter.]

What can I say? I'm an expert at finding excuses for any driver's performance.

 

[Stavelot]

What can I say? I'm an expert at finding excuses for any driver's performance.

Including your own....just because you can make an excuse doesn't mean all is forgiven, an excuse has to be good for it to be worth making in the first place.