Why Trial Mountain, Grand Valley, and Deep Forest Aren't in GT Sport (Yet)

Some race tracks are certain to debut in GTS. In 2018 I believe they will be added:

AUTOPOLIS, according to leak of images of the game, in 2015. The race track is near the headquarters of the PD. It's an exceptional circuit.

SHANGHAI, according to statements by Kazunori, who were digitizing the circuit. Great racetrack.

DEEP FOREST should appear with two or three original race tracks from the franchise.

In addition, Sarthe, Spa, Monza should appear because they are iconic circuits. It's my bets for 2018.
 
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250Cal
I don't understand why this isn't possible.

All the ******** VGT cars that no-one wants and none of the classic tracks. It's weird.

Clearly the game is aimed at someone else. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy what's there but if you've played previous GTs then what's there is limited.
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I do like VGTs, you should avoid taking their opinion as absolute truth.
 
BrunusCL82
Some race tracks are certain to debut in GTS. In 2018 I believe they will be added:

AUTOPOLIS, according to leak of images of the game, in 2015. The race track is near the headquarters of the PD, inclusive. It's an exceptional circuit.

SHANGHAI, according to statements by Kazunori, who were digitizing the circuit. Great running track.

DEEP FOREST should appear with two or three original race tracks from the franchise.

In addition, Sarthe, Spa, Monza should appear because they are iconic circuits. It's my bets for 2018.
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Based on the information we have, this could very well be true but there's no guarantees. However, the Autopolis track that we saw on a GT6 dev build could be linked to a future Super GT DLC, as PD were seen to be capturing the sound of an RC-F Super GT car. We don't know for sure if the Honda NSX and Nissan GT-R was also recorded, but I can't imagine just one Super GT car being implemented into a GT game. They might've been able to get their hands on an LC500 Super GT car and have the complete 2017 grid...
 
I believe that SUPER GT cars should be added, as well as some championship circuits, like Autopolis, Motegi and Fuji. Thinking about Sugo, Sepang and Okayama may be dreaming too much. However, they are excellent circuits. Perhaps it is a market strategy to bet PD on circuits that do not exist in other games.

Now I really wanted to know if the GT1 cars will be added in the future, like Mclaren F1, Maserati, Enzo GT, Ford GT, Pagani, Koenigsegg etc.
 
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Stu-Evo
Costs muchos $$$ to license each track sadly. But I agree would be great to have more real life tracks. I'd be happy seeing more daily races on the N24 though....
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Does it? Can you explain why relatively tiny budgeted games like AC and PCars can have so many real world tracks?
 
GT Kelv
No disrespect to PD, but they delayed this game a whole year. On my opinion there’s no reason why all the tracks from GT 1-4 aren’t in GT Sport.
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Would have made the track list incredible, but I think Kaz gave the reason in the article.
 
GT Kelv
No disrespect to PD, but they delayed this game a whole year. On my opinion there’s no reason why all the tracks from GT 1-4 aren’t in GT Sport.
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In the days of GT4 on the PS2, 1 track took 4-6 designers around 6 months... so, what are you basing your 'opinion' on?
 
Dan Vincent
How long does it take to make each car and track?
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I hear it takes months, but I wonder if that’s due to factors such as man power and how they create the car and track models. For example, is laser-scanning the fastest and best way to get the most detailed car and track models? I think they use a different method judging from the Kaz lecture he gave at a college if I remember correctly.

05XR8
Would have made the track list incredible, but I think Kaz gave the reason in the article.
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He did and it’s understandable, but I’m not game creator or designer. Tastes just something I would’ve had to include (not all GT tracks but at least the popular main ones) to give players that since of nastalgia. Maybe the creators wanted to take another path from past GT games. If they did that’s fine, but wasn’t “The Dragon Trail” in GT5 or GT6? If it was it made it into GT Sport. It’s a great track but it’s not favored over the GT originals that’s part of the reason why I feel that those tracks should’ve been included from launch. I think a PS4 of them would be epic.

MatskiMonk
In the days of GT4 on the PS2, 1 track took 4-6 designers around 6 months... so, what are you basing your 'opinion' on?
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I’m basing my opinion off of what I would’ve liked to see and what I what I would’ve done when it came to track selection for the game. I’m no game designer or creator though so it’s just an opinion (or even a suggestion)of what I feel. Since it took that long to make tracks and cars back then I would think that maybe it doesn’t take quite as long with modern day technology. But it could still take just as long or even longer with methods of capturing the car and track deminsions and texture and other visual renderings. Now with a 4-6 man staff working around the clock it’s gonna take a lot time because we can only do so much as humans that get physically tired and mentally drained. If they still have a small man team that made this title I’m impressed and I understand why we won’t see certain things. But I honestly hope that since GT is one of the most popular racing games ever created they have a much bigger staff.

If it were me I would’ve definitely included original GT tracks because 1. Even though the game is completely different from the GT games in the past it would be cool to give the players a little taste of home on a different world. 2. They would look amazing on the current PlayStation platform. 3. I feel the GT community would’ve loved and appreciated them. The game is great but if you have me a choice between releasing it how it is now before the latest update and delaying the game for another 3-6 months and it launch with more cars and tracks I’d 100% choose to delay it.

Let me ask you this though and be completely honest; wouldn’t you have liked to have some of the original GT tracks present in GT Sport? I honestly feel that anyone who had played the series from the first two would.
 
Laser scanning tracks is about getting the surface profile/scale correct, not about it making the circuit for you. Using it will make little difference to development time and effort.

Side-point, but Laser scanning does not make car models usefully. It could make a master template, but it is not a modelling tool as such. Where available the manufacturer CAD models would be much more useful. modelling for games is still about 3d modelling efficient accurate and good looking meshes.

Compared to GT4 now everything takes MUCH longer because the product back then was comparatively simple and in fact quite inaccurate. That said I do think a couple more classic tracks should have made it in.
 
GT Kelv
I’m basing my opinion off of what I would’ve liked to see and what I what I would’ve done when it came to track selection for the game. I’m no game designer or creator though so it’s just an opinion (or even a suggestion)of what I feel. Since it took that long to make tracks and cars back then I would think that maybe it doesn’t take quite as long with modern day technology. But it could still take just as long or even longer with methods of capturing the car and track deminsions and texture and other visual renderings. Now with a 4-6 man staff working around the clock it’s gonna take a lot time because we can only do so much as humans that get physically tired and mentally drained. If they still have a small man team that made this title I’m impressed and I understand why we won’t see certain things. But I honestly hope that since GT is one of the most popular racing games ever created they have a much bigger staff.

If it were me I would’ve definitely included original GT tracks because 1. Even though the game is completely different from the GT games in the past it would be cool to give the players a little taste of home on a different world. 2. They would look amazing on the current PlayStation platform. 3. I feel the GT community would’ve loved and appreciated them. The game is great but if you have me a choice between releasing it how it is now before the latest update and delaying the game for another 3-6 months and it launch with more cars and tracks I’d 100% choose to delay it.

Let me ask you this though and be completely honest; wouldn’t you have liked to have some of the original GT tracks present in GT Sport? I honestly feel that anyone who had played the series from the first two would.
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If they were still only creating PS2 level assets you're right, they could probably have done them a lot quicker, but they are not... if the cars have gone from ~3,000 polygons to ~500,000, imagine how much more involved the tracks are. If you want the tracks then fine... but you wanting them does not equal "no reason" why they're not included in the game. Fundamental disconnect.

Would I have liked to have seen the tracks in the game (as a player of the franchise since the first installment)? Yes, of course, but accepting that PD can only churn out tracks at a certain rate (because there is no alternative but to accept this) I can honestly say I would not have prioritised them over the new tracks.
 
MatskiMonk
If they were still only creating PS2 level assets you're right, they could probably have done them a lot quicker, but they are not... if the cars have gone from ~3,000 polygons to ~500,000, imagine how much more involved the tracks are. If you want the tracks then fine... but you wanting them does not equal "no reason" why they're not included in the game. Fundamental disconnect.
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To be honest, the PS2 is no comparison to the PS4.
 
I see your point, but my opinion was from a gamer’s stand point because I’m not a gamer designer or developer. But from a creator’s standpoint you make a very valid point.
 
F2X M3CSL
I have read the whole thread and several people seem to think alike. Obviously Kaz also stumbled across the idea that the classic fictional tracks need to be reworked in order to make them look authentic. Long before GT Sport was released I also thought that they need an overhaul because it was just odd for me to see e.g. GT500 race on circuits with natural barriers and zero run-off areas.

So back in 2015 I have started working on a modernized version of Trial Mountain. Because I really suck at drawing I used SketchUp to visualize my ideas.

As you can see I didn't alter the layout. I tried to replicate the circuits elevation changes as close as possible because the combination of them and the actual layout is what makes it special.

View attachment 702465

The game version of turn 1 doesn't have any run-off at all although it is a pretty fast and demanding corner. Therefore I added a small strip of asphalt after the grass in order to allow the driver to catch the vehicle before it slips into the gravel trap. The pit exit has also been altered because cars leaving the pit in the game version are going straight into the driving line for turn 1.

View attachment 702466

The Tunnel in turn 4 has been ditched by me because you arrive at pretty high speed after the fast left-hand kink which is turn 3 and subsequently run-off is needed which is impossible/totally unrealistic if you have a tunnel.

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I have also revised the pit entry and the final chicane to make the pit more spacious and to provide a more safe final turn. I haven't touched the montaneous part of the circuit yet.

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Edit: Maybe we need a seperate thread to discuss needed changes for this and other original circuits and to make side by side comparisons.
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Bro, I think you need work for PD, to do more amazing jobs 👍
 
Johnnypenso
Does it? Can you explain why relatively tiny budgeted games like AC and PCars can have so many real world tracks?
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I seriously doubt company's license at a flat rate though. If I wrote a song and some college filmmaker wanted to use it, I would charge him 200$, if they wanted to use it for the next avenger's film, Disney is going to have to pay me in the millions. This is quite literally how licensing works in the film industry.
 
KingFrog
I seriously doubt company's license at a flat rate though. If I wrote a song and some college filmmaker wanted to use it, I would charge him 200$, if they wanted to use it for the next avenger's film, Disney is going to have to pay me in the millions. This is quite literally how licensing works in the film industry.
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Even if this the case @Johnnypenso makes a valid point mate.
Take Laguna Sega -example-.You'll find that track in AC,Pcars,rFactor2,iRacing,Forza 7.All these titles are made from both "small" and "big" developers.But they dont have a problem as it seems in terms of getting the licence no matter the cost.So it is not logical to assume that for PD and only PD money would be an issue.
I mean if both small and big developers can add a good number of real tracks into their title,then why such a thing is difficult for PD?
 
JulesDennis
Even if this the case @Johnnypenso makes a valid point mate.
Take Laguna Sega -example-.You'll find that track in AC,Pcars,rFactor2,iRacing,Forza 7.All these titles are made from both "small" and "big" developers.But they dont have a problem as it seems in terms of getting the licence no matter the cost.So it is not logical to assume that for PD and only PD money would be an issue.
I mean if both small and big developers can add a good number of real tracks into their title,then why such a thing is difficult for PD?
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Who says PD doesn't have the licence ? PD has been known to sit on licences in the past ..
 
KingFrog
Who says PD doesn't have the licence ? PD has been known to sit on licences in the past ..
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And who says they do?It could be either way.The fact is that the game lacks in terms of real life tracks.Money should not be the issue for it.
They could be holding back in order to add them later or they dont (for whatever reason) have the licences yet or they dont plan to add a lot of real tracks (for again whatever reason).
 
Gran turismo and Forza should actually have more tracks than other racing games. Especially given that PD is backed by Sony and T10 backed by Microsoft.

Money should not be an issue at all compared to sms and kunos. T10 and PD have no excuses at all.

Given how sony has the exclusive licence for pikes peak its pretty disappointing how the hillclimb road did not even feature in the release of GT sport. Whats the point in a licence if you are not going to use it.
 
JulesDennis
Even if this the case @Johnnypenso makes a valid point mate.
Take Laguna Sega -example-.You'll find that track in AC,Pcars,rFactor2,iRacing,Forza 7.All these titles are made from both "small" and "big" developers.But they dont have a problem as it seems in terms of getting the licence no matter the cost.So it is not logical to assume that for PD and only PD money would be an issue.
I mean if both small and big developers can add a good number of real tracks into their title,then why such a thing is difficult for PD?
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Now hopefully the huge vacants for these job positions (http://www.polyphony.co.jp/recruit/english/)
especially the jobs that invloves making cars and tracks, could answer to PD's issue: they need more people.
 
GRF
Now hopefully the huge vacants for these job positions (http://www.polyphony.co.jp/recruit/english/)
especially the jobs that invloves making cars and tracks, could answer to PD's issue: they need more people.
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May not be the case.
In PD official site there is a page that someone can make an application for various jobs.
Still they are a big studio/developer and the "small" staff cannot be a valid point about this.Compare PD staff with those at Kunos or SMS.Its a day/night comparison yet they...dont have enough people?

EDIT:If smaller developers with way less money/staff can,then PD should not have problems related to either money of staff.
 
polizei
you'd think the tracks would laser scan their tracks once themselves and sell the files to anyone who wants them.
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Indeed. If I was in charge of marketing for any circuit, or any car, I'd be doing everything in my power to make sure it appeared in every game possible. If people are intimately familiar with a circuit, they'll be more likely to want to watch races there, do trackdays there, and eventually race there. Even if people are not local enough to visit, building that brand can't possibly hurt, and whatever makes that easier for game developers is worth doing.
 
I suspect the 'classic GT' circuits are being developed as part of the long term marketing and the late realisation that they in fact have to provide the classic GT experience, as demanded by the player base..

'Trial Mountain is Back' would be all over the press and would sell a bunch more copies to old GT fans, plus bring back lapsed players.

On real world circuits, it could be that they think adding Laguna Seca, again, like every other game on the market sounds boring?
 
I honestly don't give a toss about real world tracks , especially if F1 races them . Heck I bet my life track designers would kill to design tracks unrestricted by stupid regulations that kill all sense of flow . Now if we got 80's versions of each track that would be awesome .
 
JulesDennis
May not be the case.
In PD official site there is a page that someone can make an application for various jobs.
Still they are a big studio/developer and the "small" staff cannot be a valid point about this.Compare PD staff with those at Kunos or SMS.Its a day/night comparison yet they...dont have enough people?

EDIT:If smaller developers with way less money/staff can,then PD should not have problems related to either money of staff.
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So long as Yamauchi is the head of PD I suspect we will always see PDs releases being delayed and not reflective of the superior resources available to them. It's just poor management.
 
Dont know about that. I love it that a game has content added later. Even if I need to pay for it.

Makes it far more special to me. Enjoying the game over a long period. New tracks new cars new enthusiasm.
To me this is just brilliant marketing.
 

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