Why Trial Mountain, Grand Valley, and Deep Forest Aren't in GT Sport (Yet)

Ameer67

Premium
10,983
United States
Chicago
If we want to bring that into the quality of GT Sport now, there is a lot that we have to redesign, and it is not that easy.

Here's hoping the original tracks don't lose much of their personality if they do get redesigns. I trust PD on this one though, as I'd say GT6's versions of Apricot Hill and Midfield turned out quite nice.

There were curbstones that were wider than cars!

Meanwhile on Dragon Trail...

upload_2017-12-28_13-16-32.png
 

SlipZtrEm

GTP Admin
Staff Emeritus
27,384
Canada
Toronto
NewAesthetic
SlipZtrEm
Here's hoping the original tracks don't lose much of their personality if they do get redesigns. I trust PD on this one though, as I'd say GT6's versions of Apricot Hill and Midfield turned out quite nice.

We won't speak of the GT4-era Grand Valley corner reprofiling... :(

It's nice to know, but I'm just gonna throw this out there... are those 'holy trinity' of GT circuits actually deserving of inclusion - or is it 'just' nostalgia that makes people want them?

Would you argue the big three aren't genuinely good race tracks? Trial Mountain will probably have to undergo some level of redesign for that final chicane. I imagine the rocks lining the track could be an issue in terms of realism, though in practice, they're no different from Tokyo's walls. But other than that, I think the layouts of all three have aged quite well.
 

JayRS200

(Banned)
536
Finland
Finland
It's nice to know, but I'm just gonna throw this out there... are those 'holy trinity' of GT circuits actually deserving of inclusion - or is it 'just' nostalgia that makes people want them?

I've played them since the first GT game. I would rather have new fantasy tracks to learn or historic real life tracks like Spa, Monza, Silverstone etc from different eras... those are the real classics.
 

GTRacer22

photographer and racing enthusiast
Premium
8,117
United States
New Jersey
GTP_GTRacer22
We are missing all this:

Daytona
Indianapolis

Watkins Glen
Road Atlanta
Road America
Homestead Miami
Lime Rock
Sonoma
VIR
Laguna Seca
COTA
Sebring
Long Beach
Silverstone
Donington
Snetterton
Top Gear
Le Mans

Paul Ricard
Magny Cours
Nogaro
Motegi
Tsukuba

Sugo
Fuji
Okayama
Hockeneim
Oschersleben
Norisring
Lausitzring
Sachsenring
Spa
Zolder
Catalunya
Jarama
Valencia
Aragon
Jerez
Albacete
Navarra
Monza
Mugello
Imola
Misano
Adria
Vallelunga
Magione
Varano
Pergusa
Yas Marina
Dubai
Losail
Phillip Island
Adelaide
Melbourne
Assen
Zandvoort
Estoril
Portimao
Sochi
Moscow
Slovakia Ring
Brno
Red Bull Ring
Sepang
Kyalami
Phakisa
Zhuhai
Shanghai
Grand Valley Speedway
Deep Forest Raceway
Autumn Ring
Apricot Hill Raceway
Tokyo R246
High Speed Ring
Citta di Aria
El Capitan
Smokey Mountain
Seattle Circuit
Cape Ring
Trial Mountain Circuit
Midfield

and many more

HURRY UP KAZ!!!
If you think PD has the ability to include all of these tracks, you might want to lower your expectations. A lot.
 
156
Austria
Vienna
It's nice to know, but I'm just gonna throw this out there... are those 'holy trinity' of GT circuits actually deserving of inclusion - or is it 'just' nostalgia that makes people want them?
I always liked GT for its graphics, and amazing presentation of their original tracks. If I want to race on world circuits, I fire up Assetto or PC1/2.
Circuit de la Sarthe??:bowdown:
I race Deep Forest, Trial Mountain, and Grand Valley over Le Mans any day of the week. Don't know what the fuss about La Sarthe is, it is a bad track. Period. I never heard a racing driver gush over that track. When asked usually Brands Hatch, old Austrian ring, Spa, Monza, Watkins Glen, Monaco come up. Le Mans? Not so much.
 
461
Ireland
Ireland
We won't speak of the GT4-era Grand Valley corner reprofiling... :(



Would you argue the big three aren't genuinely good race tracks? Trial Mountain will probably have to undergo some level of redesign for that final chicane. I imagine the rocks lining the track could be an issue in terms of realism, though in practice, they're no different from Tokyo's walls. But other than that, I think the layouts of all three have aged quite well.

You've said a bad word there. Realism. In the context of a fanciful location, no matter how well grounded in realism, artistic license is always an op
We are missing all this:

Daytona
Indianapolis

Watkins Glen
Road Atlanta
Road America
Homestead Miami
Lime Rock
Sonoma
VIR
Laguna Seca
COTA
Sebring
Long Beach
Silverstone
Donington
Snetterton
Top Gear
Le Mans

Paul Ricard
Magny Cours
Nogaro
Motegi
Tsukuba

Sugo
Fuji
Okayama
Hockeneim
Oschersleben
Norisring
Lausitzring
Sachsenring
Spa
Zolder
Catalunya
Jarama
Valencia
Aragon
Jerez
Albacete
Navarra
Monza
Mugello
Imola
Misano
Adria
Vallelunga
Magione
Varano
Pergusa
Yas Marina
Dubai
Losail
Phillip Island
Adelaide
Melbourne
Assen
Zandvoort
Estoril
Portimao
Sochi
Moscow
Slovakia Ring
Brno
Red Bull Ring
Sepang
Kyalami
Phakisa
Zhuhai
Shanghai
Grand Valley Speedway
Deep Forest Raceway
Autumn Ring
Apricot Hill Raceway
Tokyo R246
High Speed Ring
Citta di Aria
El Capitan
Smokey Mountain
Seattle Circuit
Cape Ring
Trial Mountain Circuit
Midfield

and many more

HURRY UP KAZ!!!

Top Gear isn't coming. It was a licensed tie-in that was picked up by Forza after GT5. Also I doubt it was on Kaz's mind to renew it as it served its purpose.

The rest would be interesting and the enboldened ones are certainly a must, add all from Deep Forest and below on your list.

Essential tracks should include all tracks used in the GT series not just all the repeat tracks. The only exceptions being the likes of promo tracks like Top Gear.
 

Joey D

Premium
45,379
United States
Boyne Falls, MI
GTP_Joey
GTP Joey
I race Deep Forest, Trial Mountain, and Grand Valley over Le Mans any day of the week. Don't know what the fuss about La Sarthe is, it is a bad track. Period. I never heard a racing driver gush over that track. When asked usually Brands Hatch, old Austrian ring, Spa, Monza, Watkins Glen, Monaco come up. Le Mans? Not so much.

Agreed. Le Sarthe is awful, a couple of meandering corners, a long straight, tight chicane, long straight, a few more tight corners then back to a couple meandering corners.

I always though the original three tracks being discussed here were pretty good. When I was young Grand Valley also annoyed me, but I got used to it and now it's up there on my "must have tracks" in a GT game. Deep Forest will always be my favorite though, I used to spend hours hot lapping it with various cars in search of a sub-1 minute time.
 
30
South Africa
Johannesburg
ebrahimosman
I can't help but ask. With the obvious budget they have. What the hell have they been doing with their time since GT6.

You can't get an outside team or more members to help with track and car design.

I love GT. I love PD. But it's becoming unacceptable. They seem to get 1/3 done in the time others have released 2-3 games already.

Something has to give. Really.
 
35
United States
Manchester, PA
jaczrwild3
I had a feeling they were coming sooner or later, but likely one at a time rather than in a big "GT Classics" update like I think I'd prefer they would do, Oh well, hyped either way.

Hoping they don't leave Apricot Hill and Midfield in the dust just a few years after they were redesigned as well. :(
 
1
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
pearcie27
I’m wondering if these tracks (and maybe others) will just be part of either another free update once reprofiling is complete, or maybe as an unlock feature in the GT League? That would make completing certain sections of the game feel more rewarding rather than just gaining cash/mileage points etc. Don’t get me wrong, I use these rewards to my advantage, but it would be great to have an unlock feature in the game, anyone agree?
 
14,973
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Would you argue the big three aren't genuinely good race tracks? Trial Mountain will probably have to undergo some level of redesign for that final chicane. I imagine the rocks lining the track could be an issue in terms of realism, though in practice, they're no different from Tokyo's walls. But other than that, I think the layouts of all three have aged quite well.

I'd argue that their merit as race tracks is disproportionate to the degree people want them in the game, and that discrepancy is due to nostalgia.

Whilst I was at it... I'd also argue that the layout and aesthetic of those tracks was not dictated by what made for good racing using the physics engine we have now - nor to get the best of the rendering and lighting engine we have now, but instead was designed to make the best of 20 year old know-how (hence all the claustrophobic nature of their designs). I would also add that, from what I recall seeing, one common big complaint about PD tracks is that they are too 'smooth', and that any new layout, or new version of an old layout, is still susceptible to that problem - so the degree to which people are happy with them in the end, might not be so related to their layout, aesthetic, or sentimental values - but how well executed the re-modelling of the surface is.

If I have an issue with fantasy tracks in general, it only comes down to how well executed they seem as a real-life venue, i.e., are they the SRT Tomahawk of the fantasy track-world, or the BMW VGT of the fantasy track-world (to be fair to PD, we've not seen the Chaparral 2X of fantasy-track-world from them yet). As such, I think GVS needs a bit of re-working, and that TM and DF might almost be better presented as Eiger Nordwand type venues, than racing circuits... but that's just my personal preference.

edit:

I always liked GT for its graphics, and amazing presentation of their original tracks. If I want to race on world circuits, I fire up Assetto or PC1/2.

I'm not hating on Original tracks in general, I'd like a mix of both in the game... but as I mentioned above - is getting the same ones we had 20 years ago really what would make the best of the game?
 
748
Canada
Canada
hypershock12
I can't help but ask. With the obvious budget they have. What the hell have they been doing with their time since GT6.

You can't get an outside team or more members to help with track and car design.

I love GT. I love PD. But it's becoming unacceptable. They seem to get 1/3 done in the time others have released 2-3 games already.

Something has to give. Really.
I never really cared about how long PD has taken to do things. Especially now since the things we wanted in GTS are planned to arrive in future updates.
At this point, I couldn't care less about how long these things take to arrive. I'm just happy that they're even coming to GTS. I don't mind waiting.
 

GTRacer22

photographer and racing enthusiast
Premium
8,117
United States
New Jersey
GTP_GTRacer22
So.. why they aren't in the game?

"There is no particular reason"

:crazy:
The article clearly said
“The problem that we had with some of the older tracks from previous Gran Turismo games was the scale being off in certain places. The size of the trees are very large, or the width of the curbstones, etc. There were curbstones that were wider than cars!

“If we want to bring that into the quality of GT Sport now, there is a lot that we have to redesign, and it is not that easy.”
 
1,051
Brazil
Brazil
I never really cared about how long PD has taken to do things. Especially now since the things we wanted in GTS are planned to arrive in future updates.
At this point, I couldn't care less about how long these things take to arrive. I'm just happy that they're even coming to GTS. I don't mind waiting.

Oh, man.

I'm not happy with promises.

I calm down with concrete actions.

After five years of GT6, GTS appears as a skinny and malnourished game in relation to content.

We can not rest easy in the face of these concrete facts.

If Yamauchi-san told me that in 2018 he will bring more than 20 tracks and 200 cars, i would be happy and calm.

But I doubt very much about the history of PD. It's too slow. Too much. A lot.

See for yourself! Kaz just admitted that they are only now reworking in Deep Forest!

What? What have they done in the last five years?

So, by the way, if there are 5 circuits in 2018, it will be a herculean victory.
 
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