Will General Motors declare bankruptcy?

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BlazinXtreme
Granted GM doesn't design all cars to be big hits, but like I've said many times...they have been coming out with some lately.
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those have been more like base hits than home runs.

vettes are homeruns. theyve brought up the quality increased the price and are minting money on each one.
the caddys are homeruns. each one is strong albeit overshadowed by thier german and japanese rivals
it pretty much stops there.

have the new models exceeded sales of the models they replaced? not really. buick killed three models and brought a new one.
the G6 is probably selling better than the grand am, but its a substantially better car. is it a homerun? no. people are still shopping fusion, taurus, accord, altima first for the most part. and the malibu too; better value.
dont mention the solstice. its too limited in numbers and doesnt make that much profit in the >23000 segment. the high perfomance ones will bring profit.

the GMT 900s will probably be a homerun. im taking a wait and see approach on this. i think the market for body on frame SUVs is going to start dwindling.
and thats the cash cow. pickups dont make as much as SUVs. SUVs are going the car based way for people who dont tow and haul for the most part. and thats the majority. EVERY MANUFACTURER IS BRINGING (HAS BROUGHT) OUT A CAR BASED SUV ALREADY. even minnows like suzuki and kia are in the game, thats where the market is headed. but GM is placing its bets on the body on frame. :scared:

maybe they know something we dont.
 
In America people will not be bothered with a uni-body pick-up. GM will sell a ton of Silverados when they come out because there will always be people that want to buy trucks.
 
neanderthal
the GMT 900s will probably be a homerun. im taking a wait and see approach on this. i think the market for body on frame SUVs is going to start dwindling.
and thats the cash cow. pickups dont make as much as SUVs. SUVs are going the car based way for people who dont tow and haul for the most part. and thats the majority. EVERY MANUFACTURER IS BRINGING (HAS BROUGHT) OUT A CAR BASED SUV ALREADY. even minnows like suzuki and kia are in the game, thats where the market is headed. but GM is placing its bets on the body on frame. :scared:
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GM has the Equinox/Torrent pair, which they feel places them in the soft-roader market (although they are relatively uncompetitive).
 
You forgot about the VUE which is selling fairly well. The Equinox was a mistake though, its ugly as hell. The Torrent replaced the Aztek which was a good move in of itself.
 
The Vue is an awesome truck, and I cannot figure out why they decided to change the front facia to look as ugly as what it has become. It looks like it has a gigantic and completely unnecessary air-induction scoop on the front, almost as big as that found on the F-16...

auto_saturn_vue.jpg

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Neanderthal - FYI the Grand Am was Pontiac's best seller for a while... So, if the G6 is better, for Pontiac, Likely a homerun, assuming it can do what the Grand Ams did, only better.
 
I think the Grand Am was Pontiac's best seller for quite some time, particularly in the early '90s. The GT models with the V6 (of course, after they retired the Quad4) were usually on top.
 
LeadSlead#2
Neanderthal - FYI the Grand Am was Pontiac's best seller for a while... So, if the G6 is better, for Pontiac, Likely a homerun, assuming it can do what the Grand Ams did, only better.
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i dont disbelieve that.

but i bet it sold in pitiful numbers. pontic had what? the trans am, (killed due to low numbers) the cavalier clone (hideously ugly thing,) grand prix, montana minivan and bonneville. having the best sales in that group is akin to being voted the slimmest person at a fat farm; its not an achievement of any sorts. :)
 
Pontiac, at the time atleast, had one of the better lineups available in the US market. Back in the early-mid '90s it was a period in the US where even most foreign cars were worse than American cars, and that says a lot. The Honda Accord was still considered to be the best in class (since when hasent it), but cars like the Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima werent even considered to be competition untill 1993.

Of course, a lot can change in a short period of time, and the majority of American cars havent been considered to even be close to the Japanese models untill recently.
 
In case anybody forgot, Ford is in real trouble, too:

Ford's fight for survival

When Ford Motor announces its North American restructuring plan on Monday, the headlines will be about the number of plants closed -- as many as ten -- and the number of people who will lose their jobs -- up to 30,000 over the next five years -- if published reports are correct.
 
Ford passed Chrysler in sales. But Ford will never fail just due to the F-Series truck.
 
...Dont leave out Ford Europe or Ford Australia. They are both pretty strong sellers in their respective markets, so they do have product to move besides Fusions and F-150s.
 
I do. We all know the Mustang has been selling well.

But their Trucks continue to go in a new direction. I like them now, but if they go the way of the Super Chief design, that may change very fast.
 
YSSMAN
...Dont leave out Ford Europe or Ford Australia. They are both pretty strong sellers in their respective markets, so they do have product to move besides Fusions and F-150s.
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So does GM who has Holden, which out sells Ford Australia last time I checked.
 
[spam]Live by the Lion, Die by the Lion, GO HOLDEN!![/spam]

You want a real competitive battle im America? Have GM Bring the commodore stateside *like i've always said* badged as a caprice, and have ford bring over the Falcon, badged as an LTD, let the wars begin!
 
YSSMAN
Back in the early-mid '90s it was a period in the US where even most foreign cars were worse than American cars, and that says a lot. The Honda Accord was still considered to be the best in class (since when hasent it), but cars like the Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima werent even considered to be competition untill 1993.
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Are you sure? From the early 90's, only decent American sedan I remember is a Taurus. Most American sedans I remember from early 90's were pretty horrible. Dodge Spirit, Plymouth Sundance, Chevy Lumina, Beretta(I liked personally), Ford Tempo, Eagle Premier, Buick Century, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme(the worst car I've driven in my life), etc.
 
... I love Holden with every bone in my body and it pisses me off more and more every year when GM doesnt use Holden to develop new RWD American coupes and sedans. Sure, we got the Monaro as the GTO, and the new Camaro and GTO replacement will be based off of the "Zeta-Lite" Architecture, but there still arent any Commodores, Caprices, Statesmen, Utes, Adventras, Calaises, etc... comming stateside.

FireEmblem62
ou want a real competitive battle im America? Have GM Bring the commodore stateside *like i've always said* badged as a caprice, and have ford bring over the Falcon, badged as an LTD, let the wars begin!
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...The Commodore would have to replace the W-Body cars (ie Impala/Grand Prix) and that would spin off models like the Chevelle/Malibu and Tempest/LeMans. They may as well import the full-sized Caprice as a Caprice (why bother changing it?), and maybe sell the Statesman as the Impala. The Ute would obviously become an ElCamino, and the Calais could revive the Nova name... I just want to have the Adventura here in the states...

aM65
Are you sure? From the early 90's, only decent American sedan I remember is a Taurus.
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Hmmm, maybe. I never recall the pre-93 Camry lineup being all that special. The Altima really was a nobody untill post '93, and really only up untill a few years ago was it ever compeditive with the Accord and the like.

I know the Lumina was a pretty well-liked car for quite some time, and the same could have been said about it's sister car, the Grand Prix.... Hell, even the old Pontiac 8000 was considered to be a good car that was comparable even to Audi products of the era.
 
FireEmblem62
[spam]Live by the Lion, Die by the Lion, GO HOLDEN!![/spam]

You want a real competitive battle im America? Have GM Bring the commodore stateside *like i've always said* badged as a caprice, and have ford bring over the Falcon, badged as an LTD, let the wars begin!
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They don't need to bring in the Falcon. With the modified LS-platform that sits underneath the new Mustang, they could engineer a new four door RWD if they really wanted to. And with Mustangs selling like crazy, development would be cheap, too. No offense to the Falcon, as I've always wondered why Ford of America kept ignoring it, but its chances of US sales are zip.
 
True, but to deign a new body would cost millions of dollars, and for the faclcon, all you have to do is move the steering wheel.
 
FireEmblem62
True, but to deign a new body would cost millions of dollars, and for the faclcon, all you have to do is move the steering wheel.
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A new body would cost billions of dollars...to move the steering wheel would be tens of millions of dollars. Car development is rediculiously expensive.
 
How do small manufacturers manage to make such good chassis when they have nowhere around that budget?

Nothing special really except that they wont be able to mass produce.
 
BlazinXtreme
A new body would cost billions of dollars...to move the steering wheel would be tens of millions of dollars. Car development is rediculiously expensive.
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But which is cheaper, moving the wheel is, so why dont't they just do that?
 
Poverty
How do small manufacturers manage to make such good chassis when they have nowhere around that budget?

Nothing special really except that they wont be able to mass produce.
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Look at the price of a Porsche 911 and look at the price of a Corvette...which is cheaper?
 
BlazinXtreme
Look at the price of a Porsche 911 and look at the price of a Corvette...which is cheaper?
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:rolleyes:

Is porsche small production? It isnt. And look at porsches profits. They could pretty much price their 911 to the same figure to taht of the corvette except that they dont have to.

I was thinking of companies like TVR and weismann. Hell why is it taht TVR can make a car that does 0-60 in about 3.8 secs with a top speed of 190+mph and be able to sell it for only £30+ grand when they dnt even have sell 4+ passenger cars to subsidise the costs.
 
A TVR in the states would cost over a 100 grand, it wouldn't sell and they wouldn't make money. But my point is that small companies charge more for there cars to off set the cost. And fine how about a Panoz Esperante vs. Corvette when it comes to price.
 
BlazinXtreme
A TVR in the states would cost over a 100 grand, it wouldn't sell and they wouldn't make money. But my point is that small companies charge more for there cars to off set the cost. And fine how about a Panoz Esperante vs. Corvette when it comes to price.
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Why do you have to change everything to fit only america. The whole 100 grand in america bit is beside the point of the discussion. Were not talking about importing the cars or anything but why some companies can produce chassis for little money and make very good cars and why for some reason it will cost GM billions. It doesnt matter if TVR was based in kazakstan or the moon. At the end of the day they are making their vehicles extremly cheap for a low production company.

I know why it will cost GM billions for a new chassis to be built as they would most likely have to uprgade alot of factories. That could also be why their in the position that theyre in now. Back when they had money instead of pumping it back in the company and making new and fresh chassis every other generation they skimped and just slightly edited the chassis instead to save money in the short term.

I dont know anything about panoz.
 
I've explained why GM is in the position they are in now.

But the reason I talk about America is because I know nothing of the UK, just like you know nothing of America (but for some reason you continue to think you do).
 
You can't use the TVR though since they are only sold in one part of the world.

Small car companies = higher price to off set cost. End of discussion.
 

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