Will General Motors declare bankruptcy?

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Yeah but if you use the conversion rate without includeing import tax etc etc a TVR would work out at about the same price as a corvette z06 and if TVR was based in america I reckon theyre cars would be even cheaper. The UK is a extremly expensive place for manufacturing. Anyway your missing the whole point of what im saying.

There are plenty of small car companies with the higher offset costs that manage to undercut the likes of GM and offer cars that are just as fast or faster which really shouldnt be happening to mass manufacturers and major game players such as GM.
 
No I believe you are missing the point. Large companies can do high volume, which marketing sense says will be cheaper. Take an economics class and it will all make sense.
 
Exactly thats my whole point and what ive been saying all along. Thats why im asking how come there are a handful of small companies can undercut the likes of GM and develop chassis without spending billions.
 
Because a smaller company would have less people to pay, less overhead, less everything, but it would cost a lot more to develope a car and take much longer.

Large companies can put out a car very quickly and make it cost less, but have more people to pay and more over head.
 
I'm actually not really going to trust you on the whole TVR thing, I need live4speed to clarify everything on TVR for me.
 
I wouldnt trust me on TVR neither :lol:

I know that they havent got much money though compared to the big boys. They also do a bit of platform sharing within its company. I predict TVR will be the next porsche in the way that they will rise out of being a small production small profit company.
 
If you don't know about them don't talk about them. The only reason I talk about GM is because I know about them, you'll never see me really talking it up on other car makers.

But I'll have live4speed clear everything up since he's like the leading GTP expert on TVR's.
 
Well I know quite a bit about TVR just not about their finances. You have to be a serious TVR fan to know about that. Im a bit of a VAG expert but its a difficult job keeping up with those guys and picking out all the rumours from facts that comes with such a big and hugely popular company.
 
TVR have a single base platform and one base engine which they currently use (was two until last year), so the cost of development is minimal. This is where TVR saves money, by finding something that works and adapting that same thing across their range. Last year Peter Wheeler sold TVR to Nikolai Smolensky for no more than 13 million British pounds, this shows just how small a company like TVR really is.

The reason they offer such great bargains is because they cater for a very nich market and at the sae time they develop almost everything in-house. Compare that to Noble who buy their engines off Ford, the body work is done by someone else (I forget the name) and then they assemble it all in South Africa and ship it to the UK, that costs a lot more, and it's represented in the cars price for a decent model you spend 10k or more over the respective TVR, Noble don't have the facilities to manufacture their own engines and to do everything themselves.

TVR are financially stabe, very stable, very small but they simply don't set their sights too high. They wouldn't dream of making a car with the aim of mass production, not many people would buy a TVR as an everyday car, plenty would a Porsche. They target a very niche market, they have a target audience they know will buy xxx ammount of cars off them each year, and they don't over produce.

The price of a TVR is fantastic, you get so much for so little, but as Blazin said a while back, they can only apply these prices to a very select few markets. They sell in Japan but they have quite a following over there (thanks to Gran Turismo I kid you not). They do sell in a few European countriels but your talking a handfull of cars a year. If TVR were to sell in the US a car like the Sagaris wouldn't be selling for $88k (£50k) it'd be probably 50% over that, so your looking at around $120k, all of a sudden that TVR has lost it's appeal. Okay the Sagaris is a bad example since I'm sure it'll still outperform a lot other $100k cars sold in the US, so lets apply that to the TVR T350C, $61k ($35) that'd again likely be 50% up over that price, so it'd become around $90k. Now as much as I love TVR, I couldn't defend that price when the US get's the Corvette for so much less, even if TVR magically managed to keep the price the same as ni the UK (which they wouldn't), the Corvette still undercut's it.

The cost of selling in a market like the US is at the moment, far too high for TVR to attempt, it's not that they couldn't afford to get a dealership over there, it's that they couldn't sell the cars for the price they'd need to sell them for to make a profit. You can only really go into a market like that if you mass produce cars, take the Corvette over here, the base C6 costs £50k, to the T350 is over £10k less, the C6 cabriolet is £55k, thats more than the Sagaris. Yet Ceverolet is part of GM as we all know, and GM are a huge company, so they just sell the Corvettes through existing dealer networks they already have in the UK, and they can afford to only sell a handfull of them over here since they already make a mint on all the other cars they sell.

Small manufacturers can offer cheap prices, but generally only in their home markets.

Porsche can't sell each 911 for £30k and make a profit, they spend too much on R&D and they have a huge global network to fund. Making a profit isn't always just about selling the car for more than it cost to build.
 
The problem with converting between right and left hand drive is the fact that a particular car is designed to have either one. I'm not sure if the 911 is designed to have right hand driving positions, as I believe Germany is a left hand nation.

Live4Speed is right when he says smaller companies can do much more on the cheap. GM's problem is that a lot of their products have to go through so many different layers of testing and retesting before it could ever be introduced to the public. Fortunatley they have begun to design many of their vehicles so that they could be sold globally, which explains why Saturn and the Vauxhall/Opel group will start sharing models later this year. In the case of the GTO, the Australian market shares many of the safety and polution standards of the US, so it was as simple as altering the dash configuation for the US market to get the Monaro stateside.

TVR is a great company, dont get me wrong, but they might have a tough time here in the States. Cars like the Corvette, Viper, and GT are tough competition for any 911, 360/F430, Gallarado, etc. Putting the Tamora, T350c, Segaris, or the SpeedSix against any of the American cars will come down to price... I havent herd much on build quality in the TVRs, but word was that it was worse than many of the standard vehicles available in the UK... That makes sales even worse in the US.

...Then again, Noble has begun to import the M12 GTO and new M400 here to the States, and I have so far seen one here in Michigan. But because they are sold as kit cars in the US, they are allowed to not comply with US crash and emissions testing... The same cannont be said for TVR, which would have to alter many of their designs. That is part of the reason why Pagani hassent been able to sell the Zonda in the US, although Wyclef Jean does have one in Miami, but it technically is not street legal. Its also the same reason why the Elise (and later Exiege) was not sold in the US for such a long time. Lotus dealers could sell the car, but only as a track car.
 
Pagani, however, is actually trying to make their cars legal.

It does change some aspects of the car, but Pagani says they are trying to. They do realize they can make a little bit of cash by selling some cars in the states, though they need to get a bigger factory. Pagani reported once they expect to get stateside by 2006-2007.

Noble's are still expensive for a kit car costing you around $90,000 for everything which probably explains why everyone would rather buy a Viper, Corvette, etc. instead for the cash.

BTW, Sean does happen to drive his Zonda sometimes as he did drive it once during a big Italian Car Run in Florida.
 
...Ive seen Wyclef take the car out on MTV Cribs, and it has been in a lot of car shows here in the US.

Its a pitty that we have to wait for the next-gen Zonda replacement here in the US. The car is badass, and there really isnt any way around it. I really cant even think of an American car that would even compete with it other than maybe the Ford GT...

Speaking of upscale European "indie" brands comming to the US, Spyker is apparently setting up shop in LA, and the cars are going to start to tricle in this year. They dont expect to sell too many, but with such a small company, they only need to sell a few to make a profit.
 
...True, I forgot about Saleen. I would suppose that Mosler could also be included as well, but I believe most of their designs are Corvette-based, not completely new like those found on the S7.

...Speaking of the Mosler, I'm begining to wonder why they havent changed from the LS6 to the LS2... Or are they going to get permission to use the LS7 from GM?
 
You don't need permission, hell any one can buy the engines from GM performance.
 
...The question is, are there enough LS7s being built at the powertrain factory?
 
What's this about shavings in the heads on new Z06's? anybody heard of this? something about they aren't cleaning them out or something, and people are blowing the bottom end's out?
 
YSSMAN
...The question is, are there enough LS7s being built at the powertrain factory?
I was wondering the same thing since it'd be nice to rise up over the 435bhp for a car with a supercar-look.

Then again, if a new motor means new power, then $189,000 could go higher too, and Mosler may not be able to sell anymore than they can now.
 
If the LS7 was readily available, it would be everywhere in the aftermarket speciality cars. We were just starting to see the LS1 get dropped into a lot of restored cars about a year ago, and now that the LS2 and LS7 have dropped, how much longer till they become the standard in the industry?

...If I could get my hands on a Noble M400 (sans engine and trans as they are in the US), I would be tempted to drop in a Chevy small-block as opposed to the turbo V6... Why? Because I'm a crazy American, and crazy Americans like to stuff V8s into anything that can take one...
 
Yup. They took the basic Vette (400hp) as part of the McCoty (budget COTY, testing in Scotland), while the high priced cars (Ford GT, Ferrari, etc...) got tested separately.

They ragged on the uncommunicative nature of the Vette's steering, and its poor reaction to bumps. But, this being Scotland, the roads were very bumpy. I don't doubt that if they'd done all testing on the track, the Vette would have come in much higher.

BTW, they hated the new Miata, too.
 
YSSMAN
...If I could get my hands on a Mosler M400 (sans engine and trans as they are in the US), I would be tempted to drop in a Chevy small-block as opposed to the turbo V6... Why? Because I'm a crazy American, and crazy Americans like to stuff V8s into anything that can take one...
That, and the turbo V6 dates from roughly 1960 (if you mean the 3.8)
 
...Nah, the 3.0L Duratec V6 that is from the Ford/Mazda lineup... Thats what resides behind the driver in the Noble.
 
Quick question... I know Caddi has it's own heritage going back a long way but why on earth would there be Chevy and then GMC if Caddi is already luxury? :dunce:

Toyota + Lexus = sufficient
 
Chevy and GMC aren't luxery....Chevy is more of the generic line, while GMC provides heavier duty trucks.
 
VIPFREAK
Quick question... I know Caddi has it's own heritage going back a long way but why on earth would there be Chevy and then GMC if Caddi is already luxury? :dunce:

Toyota + Lexus = sufficient
I don't know about GMC, but I belive most companies in the GM Group were bought out, or merged with the GM. It just sort of happened. In Toyota's case, they did that with Daihatsu(maybe Hino Trucks?). But when it decided to expand into the luxury car market, they opted to create their own luxury brand, rather than buying a name(all available names were British, weren't they? Jag, Rolls, Bentley... :D).

Edit: Like Blazin said, since GMC is for big trucks, that name is actually very useful IMO.
 
BlazinXtreme
Chevy and GMC aren't luxery....Chevy is more of the generic line, while GMC provides heavier duty trucks.

But you said the Yukon was more "luxury" than the Tahoe. :dopey: I guess an Escalade is "super luxury"? 💡 and H3 is "luxury on crack"?
 
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