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- jimipitbull
I wonder what the average price per copy was for each generation?
It would appear that Kaz gets approx $1 per copy sold
Will the relatively poor sales of GT6 affect the development of GTSport?
- Thread starter Johnnypenso
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I wonder what the average price per copy was for each generation?
It would appear that Kaz gets approx $1 per copy sold
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I don't think it will reach those numbers as most features will be in GT7 instead and most things will be carried over from GTS too. GTS numbers will depends on SP, offline content.
Thanks for the link. So Kaz also has Golf R32. In some interview he mentioned he has GTR V spec, Porsche 911 GT3, Honda S2000, some AMG model and obviously Ford GT. He is having a great job indeed lol. I would like to think since they have relatively less employees, they are all paid well
It is ludicrous to think that Sony is going to shut PDI. GT is going to stay as long as they make console even if Kaz has to step down
Didn't Prolouge sell more than 5 million?
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I think GT PSP with its 4,22M should be counted for PS3 historical wise?!
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GT4 11.730 oh prologue included sorry
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Indeed. It was also bundled with the PSP and probably accounted for 500k+ units sold for Sony. I was extremely late buying one and that's when I bought it.
Also those DLC's in GT5 brought in some pure profit.. I'm sure we don't have to worry about there being enough money for an exceptional investment to develop GTS and 7. It's impossible it will flop and/or not break even.
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- bluedragoon98
Yeah PDI will stay for a long while. Turn10..not very much luck it looks like. While Microsoft isn't "broke" I'm sure they don't want to try to revive a series with millions of dollars again and again.
Edit: Also what I would like to say is even if GT6 sold 5 million that doesn't mean they should stop improving and adding new things to the table and try to compete with Pcars and Forza Motorsport with things like qualifying,endurance racing,etc. PDI doesn't have to be perfect. I just want PDI to be expansive and boundless like what they did with GT2 and GT4.
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- Neomone
Do we really need to go through this again? Unlikely is not impossible.
I'd expect the break even point for GTS to be somewhere around the 2 million copy mark, if their costs are similar to past projects. Less than that and there's still a case for Sony getting value out of the project from system sales, but it's borderline regardless.
2 million copies sold would be a big surprise, but it's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility. Even when we were going on VGChartz numbers for GT6 (a game with a much larger install base), the argument wasn't so much that 2.4 million was unbelievable, merely that VGChartz to a greater or lesser extent pulls those numbers from their backside.
mister dog
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- misterdog
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PD and T10 can both sleep soundly as first party studios, no matter what they release there's always money available.
And IMO it shows lately, as both are becoming a bit COD'ish. Fancy graphics but going backwards in terms of innovation.
And IMO it shows lately, as both are becoming a bit COD'ish. Fancy graphics but going backwards in terms of innovation.
MKVSupra
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- huzar95
GT5 sold due to time of release and marketing, something you all have issues with understanding as far as GT6 sales are concerned.
Hype is not marketing, wii had hype it became a fad. PS4 has hype that sony them selves don't even understand the cause of. Big marketing budgets are not hype while they hope to create it most times its just letting people know your product is out there. I doubt you'll get it though.
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MKVSupra
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- Johnnypenso
No one has issues understanding how marketing works, we just don't all buy the narrative that GT6 poor sales performance has much to do with marketing. If that's all it would have taken to sell another 5 million units, you'd think Sony would have just pumped $20-30 million into marketing and easily doubled sales. It's not like there was no hype either, the GT6 launch party was one of the most spectacular in history. They took over an entire town and a street was named after Kaz.
Most games would kill for that level of hype.
MKVSupra
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- huzar95
No one has issues understanding how marketing works, we just don't all buy the narrative that GT6 poor sales performance has much to do with marketing. If that's all it would have taken to sell another 5 million units, you'd think Sony would have just pumped $20-30 million into marketing and easily doubled sales. It's not like there was no hype either, the GT6 launch party was one of the most spectacular in history. They took over an entire town and a street was named after Kaz.
Most games would kill for that level of hype.
Most games get tv commercials in the largest marker in the world, GT6 did not.
Sony was near broke at the time and launching new console hardware which is a cost in the billions. GT6 was released to bring in quick revenue and profits at a small cost to them.
Marketing the PS4 was the only thing on their minds. Not a single previous gens game which would sale great regardless.
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- Johnnypenso
Source required for Sony being near broke. And again, if spending few million would bring in 10's of millions of new revenue, it would have been done.
It's a big company, I'm sure they can do more than one thing at a time. I bet they even have a whole division for PS3.
Call of Duty Ghosts, Assassin's Creed Black Flag, BF4 all released within a couple of weeks of GT6 and all sold well on the PS3, in spite of also being on PS4.
Nobody denies that PS4 launching at the same time as GT6 being released wasn't a factor in the sales collapse, but you can't just keep throwing unsubstantiated things at the wall and hoping they'll stick.
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Through what? There is a possibility that impossible can be possible obviously. But the profits made from everything previous, plus all the HD content that can be directly carried over is already a major advantage. However I would stilll hope that they spend as much as they did on GT5 on top of that to make the game an undeniable thriller.
Now with the new sales figures, the thread's question effectively does not remain a question anymore. They can afford 3 titles with no profit made before they would even think about shutting down the GT franchise. And for that to happen, someone else will have to have made extrordinary leaps. Good thing PD don't look to be stagnating, I'm sure they're weary and will have listened to many of it's fanbase's requests.
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- Johnnypenso
What? That profit is long gone, they don't put it in a special vault with "PD" written on the stacks of $100 bills.
Did you read the OP? The question in the OP revolves around game design affected by sales, and in this case we now know that sales were half the previous title, a first for GT by a long way. The question remains and is just as valid. In fact, one could argue that releasing a GT Sport in the first place could be a direct result of those poorer sales results.
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He's just gave you billion$ of reasons why that would never happen.
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How about I substitute the word for revenue for you? How do you think companies trot along and grow even after slow years? You're suggesting Kaz gobbled up all profits? He's running a respectable company for crying out loud. Yes I do think there's a special vault that PD uses to do business.
Yes, I read it, and my thoughts remain the same. There should be enough headroom to make massive 'investments' for continueing largescale development for GT on PS4. Sorry. Doing the GT Sport thing in collaboration with the FiA, which looks to be coming as a seperate title has nothing to do with PD falling apart.
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- Neomone
All right, apparently we do need to go through it again. Probably it's unclear if you've never worked for a subsidiary of a larger company.
Polyphony is a subsidiary of Sony. What that means is that they likely don't have access to all the historical profits, those would go to the parent to be used as they see fit. It also means that they operate year to year, or probably more accurately in Polyphony's case, release to release.
The last major international chemical company I worked for was a fine example. They had traditionally had very strong market position in Australia and been a very profitable part of the larger company. But some strong competitors have shrunk their market share, and increasing costs for manufacturing have put some serious dents in their profits.
So much so that a couple of years ago there was some serious restructuring as they moved the R&D section to China, and made some big cuts on the manufacturing floor. The same is likely to happen again in a year or two, if they don't flat out shut down the factories and just start importing from China. It may be that the AU office becomes salesmen and a warehouse to hold product from China.
The bigwigs don't care that the business was successful ten years ago. They care whether it's successful now. That it was historically successful is reason not to give up straight away when the going gets tough, it's been proven that the company can be successful. But if the subsidiary isn't making money, then the parent has to look at whether their funds would be better spent elsewhere.
The same goes for Gran Turismo. Historically, it was very successful. Recently, less so. A company whose profits are declining is going to be under pressure from it's parent. If it cannot stabilise and generate what the parent considers to be a fair return on investment, then the parent can and should make changes.
There is not a possibility that the impossible can be possible. That's just an abuse of the English language. There is a possibility that an unlikely thing will occur. It is unlikely that GTS will sell 2 million copies or less. But not impossible. GTS selling only 10,000 copies would be as near as dammit impossible, random holiday gift purchases will get it higher than that.
The profits already made are not an advantage, other than in the sense that it creates a buffer for how much 🤬 Sony will put up with before they take major action. The HD content that they have is an advantage, although just like PS2 where they thought they were future proofing, the PS3 premiums turn out to not be entirely at the quality that is expected of a PS4 asset. It will take more work for them to have engine bays and other internal partitions modelled on all cars, and to prep them all for proper damage.
If they spend as much as GT5 again, which probably ended up being somewhere over $60 million, all that does is raise the number of copies that they have to sell to break even. I'd be wary of that if I was Sony. I'd prefer to get a cheaper, smaller, highly polished game out quickly. That allows me to limit my risk, attempt to evaluate how much of the GT6 drop was due to damage to the brand from the PS3-era mis-steps, get some solid prototyping done on the new system, and try to build some hype for the next big game.
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SCE is subsidiary of Sony, and if you want to talk about profits from GT in larger term and SONY funneling those profits elsewhere I'm afraid it could almost be considred peanuts. SCE would be very interested to GT remain a top seller.
Good thing this simply does not apply to GT. The entire world of business could collapse if compaanies keep making the mistake to hand job and manufacturing contracts to Chinese. It's something I really really dislike. Clearly and unfortunately the company you were working for was forced to make the decision to remain competitive in the market. Thankfully there's no Chinese billionaire funding a software developers to outdo any Studios making games that try to compete with todays giants in the industry.
Understood, never was under false impression.
lol nice
We have no idea what GT Sport will even be or what it will cost. It may be a cheap $9.99 game (after a free beta download) and also be required to compete for GT Academy. Who knows.
You're almost making it seem PD has no money and rights of it's own. They are obviously working on the Morpheus together, so there's a major obligation, a GT movie is in the works, a trillion little side projects with all the manufacturers and who knows what technology they are working on with GPS etc. I don't think Sony influences their decisions that much, they making constant decisions on funding and licensing certain aspects but overall what happens at the studio is probably their own vision.. KAZ's Vision!
The prototyping is happening with the beta already, so there's a great start to collect valuable bug and network fault info before the big title drops.
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Possibly, but at this point it would appear that GTS has been the main focus for Polyphony for the last couple of years. God knows that the updates that have been released for GT6 aren't enough to account for a couple of years of work from more than a handful of people.
As such, GTS has to at least be able to pay the studio costs for a couple of years. The cheaper they make it, the more they have to sell.
Of course it applies to GT. You're just thinking to narrowly. It's not about China specifically. Any company is potentially under threat from other companies that operate more efficiently, to produce equivalent or better products at lower costs.
The point is not who is making the decisions. The point is who ultimately holds the purse strings.
Polyphony gets as much money to make a game as Sony gives them and no more. Polyphony is expected to provide a certain return on that money, in whatever way they see fit. Sony no doubt chips in with stuff like requiring Morpheus support, but I agree that probably the majority of the design decision making is Polyphony's, as it should be.
However, what Sony can do is limit their funds so that another sprawling masterpiece like GT5 isn't financially viable for Polyphony. If they've only got a small budget, then they can only afford a small game and they need to get it out quick before operating costs bankrupt them. It's a way of keeping them on a tight leash.
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To answer your question, @MKVSupra, it's because, while we don't see them often, many kids browse GTP.
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It is impossible to know how much profit they make. But if you have a good backing of a publisher like they have and good coverage of advertising, marketing. This is a same pattern other AAA games do and good indication that game is doing great.
How many did those games sell on PS3 ? We now know GT6 is almost 5million. Which is pretty good for a racing game. I do not think any other racing game would come even close to it.
Yes it did. But that was a exception. The jump from PS2 was pretty big. When GT5P was released I could not believe how good the cars looked. They were years ahead to others. Now a days many games have good car models like DC, Forza but during that time this was really a big thing.
This still looks awesome and can be used on PS4. From the GTS trailer, pics comparison. The curves on cars like the mazda vgt, audi are looking better than GT6 but not PS2 to PS3 like upgrade which was rather big
It is same for every game studio having full time employees. They have been working on the PS4 game for at least 3years if not more. They are paid for it and probably will get a bonus too once the game sells certain copies, or makes certain amount of $.
How many did those games sell on PS3 ? We now know GT6 is almost 5million. Which is pretty good for a racing game. I do not think any other racing game would come even close to it.
Yes it did. But that was a exception. The jump from PS2 was pretty big. When GT5P was released I could not believe how good the cars looked. They were years ahead to others. Now a days many games have good car models like DC, Forza but during that time this was really a big thing.
This still looks awesome and can be used on PS4. From the GTS trailer, pics comparison. The curves on cars like the mazda vgt, audi are looking better than GT6 but not PS2 to PS3 like upgrade which was rather big
It is same for every game studio having full time employees. They have been working on the PS4 game for at least 3years if not more. They are paid for it and probably will get a bonus too once the game sells certain copies, or makes certain amount of $.
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- Johnnypenso
The question in the OP has nothing to do with comparing GT sales to other games. It focuses on whether this precipitous decline in sales might have PD/Sony doing a rethink on the franchise and taking things in a new direction to try and rekindle the magic. I'm pretty sure PD and Sony could care less what the sales are of any other game and I'm 100% no one ever sat in a board meeting and said, "a 50% decline in sales is ok because we still beat everyone else". At least no one still employed at Sony or PD ever said that.
mister dog
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- misterdog
- misterdog7
What strikes me is that after all these PR blunders, delays and the last 2 versions of GT being relatively 'poor' to say the least, PD can still count on fans turning into apologists for them.
It's always the fault of a third party, the game wasn't good due to the PS3 being 'underpowered', the game didn't sell good because there wasn't enough advertisement, and of course the other excuse; everyone and his mother already bought a PS4 in December 2013, and suddenly stopped playing on the 3.
It's always the fault of a third party, the game wasn't good due to the PS3 being 'underpowered', the game didn't sell good because there wasn't enough advertisement, and of course the other excuse; everyone and his mother already bought a PS4 in December 2013, and suddenly stopped playing on the 3.
MKVSupra
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- huzar95
What do a Japanese German or Italian commercial have to do with the fact GT6 had NO tv commercial in North America, console gaming largest market ??? seriously what do you think you proved. Why don't you post a USA GT6 commercial as i clearly asked for the largest gaming market.
Want to see their financials just google it, prove me wrong. It a big company that was near dead. Everything but their financial division was bleeding cash. This was not the powerhouse Sony of the 80s early 90s.
They sold way less, and then way way way less.
using vgc numbers, Their legacy numbers are legit as its just them adjusting to official released ones.
COD 2012 13.69 million
COD 2013 9.59 million. drop of 4 million.
COD 2014 4.07 million. A drop of 5.6 million for a total drop of 9.5 million or 70% of their sales. That's what a new gen does to old gens sales.
A Creed3 2012 6.4m
A Creed4 2013 3.87m
Assassins lost 40% of its sales in one year, just due to the 8th gen release.
A Creed Rogue 2014 1.16m. Assassins lost 82% of its sales only one year into the 8th gen.
I only speak facts that are general knowledge to any one interested in this market. Unsubstantiated is whats coming form the GT doom and gloom peeps. Do some basic math be honest about the situation and timing of GT6 and you get GT6 sales pretty much where they are at 5m are logical given the circumstances.
As far as op question, Gt6 sales will have NO impact on the nest GT. The power and easy of development on the PS4 will.
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