Would you like to see DR affected by aid usage?

[Voodoovaj]

As the question says, do you believe that DR should be affected by the usage of driver aids?

Now, I personally don't care if people use them. Especially as you learn the game, or as a means to better enjoy the game. If the aids bring you up to par, great.

HOWEVER, at the pointy end of the stick, I do believe that "Driver Rating" is somewhat tarnished if using aids has no effect on it. In my view, the amount of DR you score is decreased for every aid you have turned on, and the degree to which it is enabled.

So, for full points, it's all off, even ABS (to be fair) and, let's face t, if you can win without ABS, you're pretty PRO!! The same goes for the rest. Because, let's face it, IF:

Driver A and Driver B cross the line in a tie (hypothetical). If Driver A is only using ABS and Driver B has all the aids maxed, I believe Driver A should be scoring more points


Agree or Disagree?

 

[Nick Cannella]

Definitely agree, as driver "A" exhibits more skill.

 

[HERE4BEER3]

I agree with you. Aids should reduce the amount of DR you would gain under the same conditions not using any aids.

However, TCS pretty much makes you slower, but will keep you on track. So I think drivers who rely on TCS and other aids for that matter, aren't that great of drivers anyways so any changes like you suggested probably aren't necessary. I'm not sure how many A+ or A drivers use aids though.

 

[sturk0167]

What about a guy who has to wear glasses to race? Less points for him too?

Driver A and Driver B cross the line in a tie (hypothetical). If Driver A is only using ABS and Driver B has all the aids maxed, I believe Driver A should be scoring more points

Bad example. If driver B has all the aides maxed, his car will be way slower than driver A's. I'd say give less points to driver A, as he should have finished long before driver B.

I understand your point, but as most people will agree, those aides are meant to help less skilled people control their cars, and ultimately makes them slower than a skilled driver without aides. Why should it matter how many points someone else gets?

 

[Voodoovaj]

What about a guy who has to wear glasses to race? Less points for him too?

Bad example. If driver B has all the aides maxed, his car will be way slower than driver A's. I'd say give less points to driver A, as he should have finished long before driver B.

I understand your point, but as most people will agree, those aides are meant to help less skilled people control their cars, and ultimately makes them slower than a skilled driver without aides. Why should it matter how many points someone else gets?

Just curious what the opinions were.

 

[Rexracer702]

I have to agree...less aid =more skill, everything else being equal. I'm biased though, since I only use ABS. If I had any real brake feel on my G29 I'd do without that, too.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Ultimately the point of DR is to match people together with similar race pace. If you are going to adjust points based on aids for people that have the exact same race pace, then you are undermining the purpose of driver rating, basically awarding people using aids with easier matchmaking. If you follow your idea through, those using aids will face less skilled people that do use aids, making it harder for those using no aids.

 

[kilesa4568]

I'd have to say no, the assists aren't that powerful.

 

[mirial]

I have to agree...less aid =more skill, everything else being equal. I'm biased though, since I only use ABS. If I had any real brake feel on my G29 I'd do without that, too.

You could argue that this is maybe the real reason that almost everyone using a wheel uses ABS. Many still think that TCS is taboo, but getting your braking right is even more difficult, yet I think this gets overlooked still.

It's still surprising how no one at Logitech or Thrustmaster has developed a cheap, reliable method for simulating braking resistance to make such a crucial part of driving realistic and easier like the way Fanatec has done.

BTW, with the latest physics update, it is now possible to get much closer to doing lap times without ABS with the high down force cars, except you will probably need a good form of braking resistance and to set the max. travel accurately for consistency.

 

[gtpierre]

I understand your point, but as most people will agree, those aides are meant to help less skilled people control their cars, and ultimately makes them slower than a skilled driver without aides. Why should it matter how many points someone else gets?

It's funny to see an american defending aides meant to make people more equal these days...

Equality is cool in society, but this is a game, and it's called GT sport.

If a guy shows up at a bike race, you don't substract seconds from his final time because his knee is recovering from MCL rupture. You don't give additional point at basketball to the guy that scored a 3 pt when he has itchy eye. You don't give lindsey vonn a time advantage because she is so broken that it is a miracle she still manages to race.
When you are a pro, you compete in pro category. When you are a beginner, you compete in a lower category. If you have poor skills you will reach the higher category slower, and you have to accept it.

I'd have to say no, the assists aren't that powerful.

lol, have you tried the Z8 race with and without CSA ? I was so glad I made it 5th with no help. Then I tried with CSA... I felt like I was cheating...

 

[kilesa4568]

I was so glad I made it 5th with no help. Then I tried with CSA... I felt like I was cheating...

If you constantly ran that race and/or put in more practice, do you think you could eventually match your CSA performance?

We had a great debate on here a while ago that you might find interesting:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ulous-and-should-be-banned-for-wheels.374476/

 

[gtpierre]

If you constantly ran that race and/or put in more practice, do you think you could eventually match your CSA performance?

We had a great debate on here a while ago that you might find interesting:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ulous-and-should-be-banned-for-wheels.374476/

I will just take the example of the Z8 in the race A because it's the most obvious I have seen.

On a short empty track I have no doubt I would match my CSA performance. In fact, my qualy times are similar with an without CSA. The problem comes with many laps and oponents.
The more laps you do, the more you are susceptible to do a mistake. CSA correct this mistake and you lose 0.2s (micro slide) instead of >2s (huge slide or spin ).
Now if you add the opponents which make every lap different (you have to overtake or defend and therefore your lines change), it becomes even more complicated.
Now if you add the rammers/aggressive drivers to the equation ... Without CSA, a rammer touches the rear of the car, you spin out and end up in the wall, race is lost. With CSA, you maybe lose a bit of time, but your car mostly stays on track and you dont end up with the triple penalty (contact, wall, time lost).

I have to say that with Gr4, Gr3, or with race tyres it's ok in general because the cars have so much more grip due to aero + tyres + low weight, but in this particular race, I think CSA is a huge advantage.

 

[Veinz]

I’d give it a chance but I think most people I race against only use ABS anyway, so I’m not sure if it would make much of a difference.

There should be some sort of deterrent though. Like the more assists you use, the less credits you get at the end of the race.

This should apply to cones and driving markers as well.

Driver A and Driver B cross the line in a tie (hypothetical). If Driver A is only using ABS and Driver B has all the aids maxed, I believe Driver A should be scoring more points


Agree or Disagree?

This I totally agree with, driver B does not deserve the same reward.

 

[NevilleNobody]

I think people need to relax and remember it's a game, enjoy the racing. If you want to get all mega serious about it then really, iRacing is your thing, go there, take it uber serious, get a complete rig and do it right.

Just race, enjoy racing, the more people i can evenly race with the better. Driving is over-rated, racing is where it's at.

 

[Veinz]

Sport Mode is the competitive side of the game, if you're into more relaxed racing then the lobbies is your thing.

 

[mwoodski]

TCS and ABS shouldn't be penalized in your theoretical situation considering the highest GT cars in the game, as GT3, all permit both systems in real life.

 

[Veinz]

I'm all for realistic aids, with everyone forced to use the same thing.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I'd have to say no, the assists aren't that powerful.

This came to mind this week while I was doing my ABS weak versus ABS default testing. I was very surprised to see how much it affected my performance. I went from winning a half dozen races a week to winning nothing and barely being able to make the podium (Race C only). I went back to default and promptly won 2 out of 3 and finishing 2nd in that other race.

In that time I went from +/- 53000DR to +/- 42000DR.

The difference in lap times was minimal. Sometimes I actually had faster individual laps. I set my Q time with weak. But, over the race distance, the difference was stark. So, although the assists are not very powerful and quite balanced in limited testing, there is something to be said about their affect on your ranking.

Either way, I was curious about opinions on this. I'm actually surprised that the pole is so even.

TCS and ABS shouldn't be penalized in your theoretical situation considering the highest GT cars in the game, as GT3, all permit both systems in real life.

Again, beside the point. The entire car can be destroyed in real life and you can die.

This GAME is giving you a "Driver Rating" which is currently only based on finishing position. If the only way to gain that position is by using a game assist, then that position should be called into question.

None of the aids in game work as they do in real life anyway.

 

[Satomiblood]

Sport Mode is the competitive side of the game, if you're into more relaxed racing then the lobbies is your thing.

Who is to say that lobbies aren't competitive?

 

[Voodoovaj]

Who is to say that lobbies aren't competitive?

Great point. After all, all the leagues are only lobbies.

I understand why the ratings don't apply there. It's too prone to abuse, but I have said many many many times that GT League should allow multiplayer and should affect your rating as a consequence.

Maybe, in the future, leagues can apply for official status and get ranking support

 

[Veinz]

Who is to say that lobbies aren't competitive?

Not competitive in the sense that there's no ranking system or leaderboards.

 

[abrahamx]

unless I'm incorrect abs, asm, and traction controll are all real systems used in racing cars. I'm not sure what the rules are on how to use them in a race but personally I believe if they are real aids then u can use them if allowed in real racing. No anti steer though cuz its a fake aid. Just my opinion.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

It's funny to see an american defending aides meant to make people more equal these days...

Equality is cool in society, but this is a game, and it's called GT sport.

He didn't say that they made people equal, and they don't. Most aids compromise speed for handling, making the player's actions less erratic and providing safer driving against neighboring drivers.

 

[kilesa4568]

there is something to be said about their affect on your ranking.

You're probably right but I think it's only a negligible boost to overall DR from using them. Certainly not enough to warrant PD redesigning the ranking system around them.

The way I see it, if someone consistently beats me with one or even all assists turned on, either the racing gods regularly smile on them, they get confidence from them or they're simply a better player than me.

 

[sturk0167]

It's funny to see an american defending aides meant to make people more equal these days...

You're on probation, Pierre.

 

[JayRS200]

Of course.

 

[Voodoovaj]

...Certainly not enough to warrant PD redesigning the ranking system around them.
.

You know what I WOULD like to see? I'd like to see DR bonuses or deductions based on car popularity to encourage people using something other than the META car.

So, for instance, maybe the Porsche RSR is -1000DR (because it's so ubiquitous), and the Peugeot VGT (which you almost never see) is +2000DR.

Something to offset the odds of you winning.

 

[JayRS200]

You know what I WOULD like to see? I'd like to see DR bonuses or deductions based on car popularity to encourage people using something other than the META car.

So, for instance, maybe the Porsche RSR is -1000DR (because it's so ubiquitous), and the Peugeot VGT (which you almost never see) is +2000DR.

Something to offset the odds of you winning.

Ha I've been using that Pug on RS and tuning enabled, full downforce and it's still a nightmare.

 

[kilesa4568]

You know what I WOULD like to see? I'd like to see DR bonuses or deductions based on car popularity to encourage people using something other than the META car.

So, for instance, maybe the Porsche RSR is -1000DR (because it's so ubiquitous), and the Peugeot VGT (which you almost never see) is +2000DR.

Something to offset the odds of you winning.

I imagine LIGHTNING would agree with you but that guy could still win with a 3 legged donkey.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

You know what I WOULD like to see? I'd like to see DR bonuses or deductions based on car popularity to encourage people using something other than the META car.

So, for instance, maybe the Porsche RSR is -1000DR (because it's so ubiquitous), and the Peugeot VGT (which you almost never see) is +2000DR.

Something to offset the odds of you winning.

Why not have dynamic bop settings. The more a car is used the slower it gets. (In the race alone ofcourse) Most people don't track DR or care about DR, they just care about winning. Dynamic bop settings equalizing the cars on the track during the week could be interesting.