Would you welcome a clean driver rating in GT6?

Would you welcome a clean driver rating in GT6?

  • Yes

    Votes: 232 88.2%
  • No

    Votes: 31 11.8%

  • Total voters
    263
I would like such a system but only if it works flawlessly and I don't trust PD to deliver that after the laughable penalty system of GT5 so I vote no.
 
More often than not kicks need to happen quickly. I don't have time to answer a bunch of questions. I have driven off track, and exited the race to kick them. My goal is to minimize the damage they are doing to the room.

If it is a network issue I will often send an email after and apologize, and tell them why.

If it was because they were dirty I normally don't, and they rarely ask why. If the do, I will reply to them if they ask civilly, but that is rare. Usually, if they reply, it is with a bunch of expletives, at that point I will usually just PSN block them, and be done with them.

Very good points.
 
I don't think the system should try to figure out intent. It should simply penalise car to car collisons based on their initial severity and through some kind of "aftermath" tracking. It should also obviously be optional somehow.

If you care about your rating, you will generally avoid collisions. If you don't have the skills to avoid a collision, the game should offer schooling, online and offline, for beginners to practise with.
That remains the biggest challenge, how to get beginners on their chosen path before applying a rating system. Perhaps the rating could relax over time to make it easier to switch to cleaner racing, but it should remember where you were should you be naughty.

Similarly, the rating should not be held as some moral marker, simply as a way for like-minded racers to pick up and play together. Granted some of that might be covered by new community options in GT6.

An important point would be for the game and its community to recognise clean and dirty both as legitimate play styles, too.
 
I don't think the system should try to figure out intent.

That's often hard enough or even impossible for humans to figure out, let alone through an arbitrary ingame system.
I can see something like a progress bar for online races which fills up when you don't cause contact (by hitting a car in front or the barriers) and empties when you do, and the speed and severity of filling up and emptying being reliant on the number of races (or experience) you've done.

So if you're new and immediately race clean in your first online race the bar fills up completely but also empties completely when you screw up the second race and this process gradually slowing down the more races you do (and a constant full bar being a sort of status symbol, literally in this case).
Maybe it should also gradually change in colour to indicate the difference in experience so that you can also see someone who always or mostly drives dirty.

But perhaps this has some obvious flaws I didn't think of, but then again, there will always be ways found eventually to manipulate any sort of system like this I guess.
 
In GT, how are you supposed to go online first? you need cars that you are familiar with, basically the cars you've bought in GT Mode, remember, we are talking about the ''casuals'' here.

From the day you insert the disk, you get a bunch of recommended cars. You can also afford to buy a car. If you know people, you can borrow or be gifted cars. But I was responding more to "this is how every game works". It's not. Especially when groups of players are involved. A lot of high end flight sims have player squads that recruit new members, and the new players learn to fly online for example. Usually many times more effective than self learning offline.
 
I'm guessing no one in here played nfs shift they had the driver rating system down where you would level to be a clean driver or aggressive . It wasn't so much a dirty clean system but less aggressive people would end up with each and all the rammers will end up with each other its worked before so all pd has to do is do it right and not half ass it like they do with everything
 
You already have one in GT5 ,it's the GTP_ ,GT5rs ,etc before the PSN Name :P

those gtp drivers are only good at setting laptimes they have no respect for anyone else on the road . I tend to kick them. Only gtp_stricker is worth racing
 
I'm guessing no one in here played nfs shift they had the driver rating system down where you would level to be a clean driver or aggressive . It wasn't so much a dirty clean system but less aggressive people would end up with each and all the rammers will end up with each other its worked before so all pd has to do is do it right and not half ass it like they do with everything

This honestly sounds even more pointless than a clean rating.
 
Damage will never be popular in open lobbies. Very few people want to go online for a night of racing a few sprints, then get taken out of contention by incidental contact or contact that is no fault of their own. A better damage model might suit some leagues but even then, most guys enter league racing to race and have fun and it's not much fun for most people to have to pit and be out of contention for a race.

Then it is a catch-22 because the risk of damage and taking yourself out of the race is the best way to keep people racing clean.

The clamp down on multiple accounts would probably be the best way to limit the amount of accounts whose sole purpose seems to be to destroy the experience for others.

After those two things have taken effect, a clean rating would be very useful.

Another thing I've noticed is that the hosts typically wait a very long time before getting the race under way, the mentality being to make sure everyone who wants to run has a chance, the problem with that mentality is that the people waiting become invested in that room and if someone spoils it, they've spoiled everybody's time up to that point.

Seems better hosts would get a few short races under way quickly in order to find out who the problems are going to be.
 
My point is no amount of programming for a rating system will be able to discern a driver's intent. EVER!

Programming intent would be nearly impossible to get completely right but I don't think it's really necessary. For example, let's say that rooms designated as "Free Run" didn't count against your driver rating. You can smash and crash to your hearts delight without consequence. Everyone knows this going in so the crashers and bashers will likely congregate here as will anyone looking for some more "on the edge" style of racing.

The more serious racers will congregate in "race for real" rooms where your driver rating is a potential prerequisite for entry determined by the host. The host may or may not use the driver rating to restrict access, but for sure it will count against your driver rating if you race there. So when you are online searching for a room to run in you should be able to see whether this function is on and what level it's set at.

What will happen real quickly, is there will be a real separation between those that don't care who they contact and those that take their clean racing seriously. A "clean racer or clean room" tag will actually mean something and be a point of pride for some, a point of derision for others.

The reason intent doesn't need to be a part of it is this. Say you enter a "race for real" room and there are 10 drivers. 8 are there to race for real, the other 2 are dirty and pay no attention to anyone else's position on the track. We've all raced against these people in the past. Race starts and the two dirty drivers impact each other driver once or twice. At the end of the race, hopefully the host gets a summary report of the contact in the race. He'll quickly be flooded with complaints about the two dirty drivers (people will be much more vocal about this because it counts against them), but he can look at the race summary and see that driver A and B have a combined 10 incidents of contact and everyone else 1 or 2. He should immediately eject driver A and B.

This report should be cumulative, meaning however long you are in the room, it follows you and your incidents accumulate. The other thing that will happen, is that hosts that don't penalize dirty players, will have a hard time keeping their rooms full. Anyone that cares about their driver rating will not remain in a room where the host isn't doing their job. Better hosts will naturally rise to the occasion.

A dirty driver will only be able to do this for so long until his rating is poor enough that he no longer qualifies for clean rooms.

Then it is a catch-22 because the risk of damage and taking yourself out of the race is the best way to keep people racing clean.

The clamp down on multiple accounts would probably be the best way to limit the amount of accounts whose sole purpose seems to be to destroy the experience for others.

After those two things have taken effect, a clean rating would be very useful.

Another thing I've noticed is that the hosts typically wait a very long time before getting the race under way, the mentality being to make sure everyone who wants to run has a chance, the problem with that mentality is that the people waiting become invested in that room and if someone spoils it, they've spoiled everybody's time up to that point.

Seems better hosts would get a few short races under way quickly in order to find out who the problems are going to be.

It is a catch-22 but from my standpoint, I'd much rather the system, meaning the driver rating, try to solve the problem before I get to the room, as opposed to relying on the good faith of others in "heavy damage" rooms. I've had both good and bad experiences in heavy damage rooms but the bad experiences are really bad. Being knocked out of contention in the first lap of a 10 lap race at Daytona Road, after a 10 minute qualifying session because someone is "sorry" and forgot to brake isn't fun for me.

Let's face it, most online hosts are not good...lol. They wait too long to start, wait too long for new entries, make too many allowances and waste too much time. Or the opposite is true. They make no allowances, start races too fast, pay no attention to what's happening on the track etc.

How's this for a radical idea? A Host rating system!!! I will expound on this in a separate thread...link coming soon!

New thread posted here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8532539#post8532539
 
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those gtp drivers are only good at setting laptimes they have no respect for anyone else on the road . I tend to kick them. Only gtp_stricker is worth racing

That's a little much considering they do race and quite a lot are well rounded gentlemen. The problem here is you have to give respect to earn respect. ;)
 
This honestly sounds even more pointless than a clean rating.

Plus, it didn't work, the only difference was the badge, you could effectively ram the AI and everybody else and your badge wouldn't change. I was on the ''clean'' side but races did involve crashes most of the time. The game was a lot of fun online but the system didn't do anything for it
 
Plus, it didn't work, the only difference was the badge, you could effectively ram the AI and everybody else and your badge wouldn't change. I was on the ''clean'' side but races did involve crashes most of the time. The game was a lot of fun online but the system didn't do anything for it

It seems to work on iRacing quite well, and given the resources PD has to put into the problem and the large database of information it can gather, they should be able to come up with something useful. There is great potential in this to help clean up online racing without preventing any level of driver from enjoying whatever type of activity they enjoy online and it's a no-brainer that PD has to move in this direction if they want to keep people racing and using the game online. More people using the game = more DLC sold = more exposure = higher future sales = better street cred etc.
 
Knowing PD's definition of 'clean,' absolutely not.
Like accidentally running too wide in one corner and getting a penalty, although the car was still half on track. :rolleyes:

Or being rammed and getting a penalty. :yuck:
 
Knowing PD's definition of 'clean,' absolutely not.

Like accidentally running too wide in one corner and getting a penalty, although the car was still half on track. :rolleyes:

Or being rammed and getting a penalty. :yuck:

PD's penalty system is not best no arguing that, but even as bad as it is, we are all affected by it equally so in the end it all averages out the same for everyone. But in the long run, those running into other cars deliberately or through careless disregard, will accumulate many more incidents than drivers avoiding contact as best they can.
 
PD's penalty system is not best no arguing that, but even as bad as it is, we are all affected by it equally so in the end it all averages out the same for everyone. But in the long run, those running into other cars deliberately or through careless disregard, will accumulate many more incidents than drivers avoiding contact as best they can.
True
 
I still think that a system similar to what COD uses would be the best way to implement it. It would be entirely optional. Another solution would be a very realistic damage model, players would have to learn how to be clean the hard way.
 
I still think that a system similar to what COD uses would be the best way to implement it. It would be entirely optional. Another solution would be a very realistic damage model, players would have to learn how to be clean the hard way.

Damage is rarely used online because no one wants to show up for an hour or two's racing, only to not be able to compete through no fault of their own because someone runs into them. I doubt it'll ever be popular outside of series, but even then, most series don't run full damage.
 
Programming intent would be nearly impossible to get completely right but I don't think it's really necessary. For example, let's say that rooms designated as "Free Run" didn't count against your driver rating. You can smash and crash to your hearts delight without consequence. Everyone knows this going in so the crashers and bashers will likely congregate here as will anyone looking for some more "on the edge" style of racing.

The more serious racers will congregate in "race for real" rooms where your driver rating is a potential prerequisite for entry determined by the host. The host may or may not use the driver rating to restrict access, but for sure it will count against your driver rating if you race there. So when you are online searching for a room to run in you should be able to see whether this function is on and what level it's set at.

What will happen real quickly, is there will be a real separation between those that don't care who they contact and those that take their clean racing seriously. A "clean racer or clean room" tag will actually mean something and be a point of pride for some, a point of derision for others.

The reason intent doesn't need to be a part of it is this. Say you enter a "race for real" room and there are 10 drivers. 8 are there to race for real, the other 2 are dirty and pay no attention to anyone else's position on the track. We've all raced against these people in the past. Race starts and the two dirty drivers impact each other driver once or twice. At the end of the race, hopefully the host gets a summary report of the contact in the race. He'll quickly be flooded with complaints about the two dirty drivers (people will be much more vocal about this because it counts against them), but he can look at the race summary and see that driver A and B have a combined 10 incidents of contact and everyone else 1 or 2. He should immediately eject driver A and B.

This report should be cumulative, meaning however long you are in the room, it follows you and your incidents accumulate. The other thing that will happen, is that hosts that don't penalize dirty players, will have a hard time keeping their rooms full. Anyone that cares about their driver rating will not remain in a room where the host isn't doing their job. Better hosts will naturally rise to the occasion.

A dirty driver will only be able to do this for so long until his rating is poor enough that he no longer qualifies for clean rooms.



It is a catch-22 but from my standpoint, I'd much rather the system, meaning the driver rating, try to solve the problem before I get to the room, as opposed to relying on the good faith of others in "heavy damage" rooms. I've had both good and bad experiences in heavy damage rooms but the bad experiences are really bad. Being knocked out of contention in the first lap of a 10 lap race at Daytona Road, after a 10 minute qualifying session because someone is "sorry" and forgot to brake isn't fun for me.

Let's face it, most online hosts are not good...lol. They wait too long to start, wait too long for new entries, make too many allowances and waste too much time. Or the opposite is true. They make no allowances, start races too fast, pay no attention to what's happening on the track etc.

How's this for a radical idea? A Host rating system!!! I will expound on this in a separate thread...link coming soon!

New thread posted here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8532539#post8532539
Love it.👍
 
That alone doesn't make you a good or clean driver.

those gtp drivers are only good at setting laptimes they have no respect for anyone else on the road . I tend to kick them. Only gtp_stricker is worth racing

Weird,I've come across any of them who raced dirty(granted I don't race online much)
 
Anyone who thinks they can tell if a driver is clean or dirty good or bad based solely on their PSN tag is fooling themselves.

For example I have a GTP tag and I am anything but dirty on the track, in fact I have been known to be a bit slower when in a group due to being careful not to hit other cars or crowd them to much.... Of course if someone starts slamming me then all bets are off as I can slam with the best of em if the situation calls for it ;)
 
How does it deal with impacts between two cars?

The safety rating of both goes down. It doesn't work.

Only really because of the cost of playing the game and the mandatory nature of the safety rating. That causes the safety rating to carry too much weight and for people to get precious about it.

Someone who is a prolific crasher will always have a lower safety rating than someone who is occasionally tagged through no fault of their own (other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.)

Making it optional will relieve some of the anxiety about it and allow people to do as they want anyway.

Yeah, this would be great.

Only problem is people that are usually very clean but like to take part in "dirty" races for a laugh.
In iRacing the "safety rating" criteria can be quite strict, and sometimes frustrating. But it encourages everybody to be as clean as possible. It has real consequences as a heavy incentive to drive well - in order to be eligible to compete officially in higher performance cars you have to increase your safety rating over time. Over the course of numerous practices and races it will go up automatically, and the occasional spinout or collision won't hurt it too much. Even things like dropping a wheel off the track will count toward it, though will barely effect it at all. If somebody is an idiot and can't keep it on track then their rating will suffer and moving up in the ranking will be difficult.

There is a bit of anxiety about it, especially because the game and extra content is anything but cheap. The good thing is that most of the drivers are very high quality. The thing that sucks is you can never turn it off so having a demo derby with your buddies is out of the question.

I think there should be a safety rating in GT that is always active. But, during online races the host can decide whether or not that race will be "ranked", as in whether or not the rating will be active. They could set a limit on the ratings allowed into the room. Or, they could deactivate the rating so anybody can have fun without worrying about ruining their rating.

EDIT: I think the rating should be optional during single player as well. If you choose to activate it then it counts, and will carry over into online racing. This way you don't have to struggle online trying to build up a respectable rating. But if you choose not to activate it during single player, then you're at the mercy of whatever low-rating rooms you can find and try the hard way to build up a rating. This way it lets the good drivers choose to be good, and the rest choose to have fun.
 
I voted Yes.

One of my friends I play with is a dirty, dirty racer. I can always beat his times but when we race offline or online he crashes into me, takes shortcuts, ect..

Most of the time I think it's funny, but I also know him. Online with strangers it's stupid. Penalty to time added for shortcuts and crashes would be a welcome addition.
 
And exactly how would this sysytem work????? if it is going to use the penalty system then it would be completely messed up.

you can get rammed from behind and end up getting the ramming penalty yourself, you can overtake someone on the inside have them slam the door shut on you and get a ramming penalty.

Scenario, a guy hits into the side of your car, you get the ramming penalty, you then go off track and lose time then get a cutting panalty for your troulbles, and now your classed as dirty?

The penalty system in GT5 is a joke, which means other players would have to vote how clean you are? soon as somone gets annoyed at losing we know where thats going dont we.

Without a flawless system in place its a no from me.
 
And exactly how would this sysytem work????? if it is going to use the penalty system then it would be completely messed up.

you can get rammed from behind and end up getting the ramming penalty yourself, you can overtake someone on the inside have them slam the door shut on you and get a ramming penalty.

Scenario, a guy hits into the side of your car, you get the ramming penalty, you then go off track and lose time then get a cutting panalty for your troulbles, and now your classed as dirty?

The penalty system in GT5 is a joke, which means other players would have to vote how clean you are? soon as somone gets annoyed at losing we know where thats going dont we.

Without a flawless system in place its a no from me.

If you get rammed by another car that's one collision for you. Say that other car is a dirty racer, he'll probably crash into others as well. At the end of the race, most competitors will have been involved in a collision but the dirty racer will clearly stand out with multiple crashes. It shouldn't be too hard to create a system that recognizes players who crash more on average.
 
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