x1 or no x1?

[dropsonde]

the car is there for fun. who doesn't want to go hyperspeed potentially going back in time. simulation or not games still should have a fun element.

needless to say the most I drove it was the challenges, kind of a useless car if you get booted for driving it around online.

 

[Downhill Dino]

It's a car, and it does neither you nor the game any harm, does it? If you don't like it, simple solution, don't use it.

I'm aware of that. Why are people taking this so seriously?

 

[Neocodex]

Seriously, that logic is so flawed it's foolish.

Douping X1s ended months ago.

I gave X1s away to many of my low level friends, cant think of any of them who dont race responsibly.

your flawed logic is based on elitism, the idea that the car someone else has hinders you, or the consideration that people will be morons online regardless of car.

pfft

 

[Xavier2342]

Keep it, no sense in taking an awesome car out of the game.

 

[Jubby]

I'd like to voice my opinion (humbly) with a few points:

The online issue: Put restrictions if you don't want the X1 (PP<900).

Beating the AI offline: What's the difference between a 1000+hp LMP/Class C car and an X1 beating other LMP cars, GT300, GT500, or Production cars? Unless the offline races have restrictions and you have a way to get around them... no restrictions means no restrictions. If you use an X1 to win the Sunday Cup (for example) is that different than you using the FGT? It's a matter of choice and fun.

It's a silly drive: I'm sorry, but having someone perfect using the X1 around complicated tracks at 100% effort (lowest lap times possible) is super. I think it's great competition (against yourself or others with like cars). I think it'd be fun for an online Indy 500 or Daytona 500 against other creditable drivers. Trying to lower your Nurburgring time below 4 or 5 minutes can be a challenge, and a good one.

Vehicle realism: Yes, the vehicle will probably never actually be produced. I'll probably never own my own company----for the same reason: because of monetary constraints. The other reason is purpose, there is no reason as there is no racing circle for it to be used in. But... the realism of this car is 100% possible (as we all know). The engine is possible, the body is possible, and the survival is possible. Yes, 8g is more than enough to black someone out... unless they take precautions. It's called the Libelle suit.

The X1 is maybe somewhat ridiculous and outlandish, but fun. A racing simulator should be realistic and fun.
I'm off my soapbox, but feel free to comment if you can keep it civil.

 

[Sier_Pinski]

Well think about this: If the X2010 is so much faster than any other car in the game, why not just fix the online system so that the X2010's are kept in their own little room? Similar to the "Ferrari F1 Only" button, patch in an "X2010's Only" button when creating an online room, and ban X2010's from all other rooms.

Besides, if the X2010 were removed, people would just resort to the next best thing as their little 'currency': The Formula Gran Turismo. And if that were removed, then the Ferrari F1's, and if not that, then the R92CP, and so on...

 

[Exorcet]

why not just fix the online system so that the X2010's are kept in their own little room? Similar to the "Ferrari F1 Only" button, patch in an "X2010's Only" button when creating an online room, and ban X2010's from all other rooms.

The thing is, there's really no reason to ever do this, except maybe licensing.

Now if PD let us set up rooms that only allowed certain classes, like Super GT only, GT1 only, LMP only, X1 only; that's OK. But there is no reason to single out a specific car.

Especially when you can already single it out via PP. Anyone complaining about X1's coming into a room unwelcome just isn't doing it right. Kick the player who's ramming people, because he's the problem not the car. But if you're (as in people in general, not you Pinski) going to be paranoid about it and assume that an X1 can't be driven in a civilized manner for what ever reason, all you need to ever do is set the PP limit so that it can't enter the room.

 

[Capt Air]

Keep it because watch if they take it out. People will bitch and they lose Fans/Buyers. Plus its so fun to mess around in.

 

[PawnBoy]

I like it, it's like all the prototype planes in "Janes Combat Simulations: Fighter's Anthology". A lot of the x planes in that game were never built to be fighters or fire weapons, but it still was really neat to simulate combat with them.

And as far as the "totally unrealistic" comments go, I really don't think it's a big stretch from modern F1 cars to the X2010. I mean, yes it would be dangerous to operate (that's why modern racing regulations don't permit cars like that), yes it would be difficult to operate, yes it accelerates really fast (you don't think 1500hp would accelerate a 500kilo car quickly? And to a really high top speed?), and yes it has piles of grip (it has a downforce fan, and the whole damn car is a 400kph wing). But I mean, F1 cars already do 0-160-0 in like 5 seconds, and pull around 5g's. Is is 0-260-0 in 5 seconds and 10g's really that much of a stretch if they set the engineers and budgets loose?

I think the most difficult thing about racing that car in real life would be finding a human fit enough to operate it. But then again, I'm no F1 driver, and I don't think I even fully understand what being one of them entails.

I like it. I may not really enjoy racing it, and the S.Vettel challenges sure as hell were challenging, but I love that they got someone to design it, and I love that they included it. It's technology, it's art, and just like many other cars in the game, never needs to be built to be appreciated.

 

[Crazed_Coupe]

removing the X1 will cause these people to go away?

Hosts can't figure out how to remove the only car capable of breaking 950 PP from their room? (Hint set PP to 949)


Don't drive it if it makes you feel this way


No


There is no competition from the AI ever. Competition is online, X1 included.


I just don't think people are thinking through their opinions enough.

What I said it obviously just an opinion, no need to shoot down everything I said about the X1 man.

1. As a host sure I can set limitations and what not but what happens when I join a room and the host isn't there?

2. If you don't think the X1 is unrealistic you're a complete idiot.

3. I don't drive the garbage.

4. There is competition with the A.I. it's just people like you who use way overpowered cars on the wrong tires for a particular event.

Like I previously said it's an opinion and I don't think you're going through yours enough, so stop critiquing others and move on.

 

[ghsnu]

My $0.02 on the realism debate: rFactor (at the minimum- haven't played other PC-Racng-sims) has fake cars, yet it's a racing sim. Should everyone cry for them to put real cars in? No.

If I remember right, GT4 and GT3 had the FGT. GT1/2 also had fake/outrageous cars according to what others have said. Should everyone complain about the FGT/whatever else beating the 🤬 out of the AI?


Sims are serious, no duh, but that doesn't mean you can't have some fun.

 

[Exorcet]

What I said it obviously just an opinion, no need to shoot down everything I said about the X1 man.

It's just discussion. I don't usually go into a thread to drop an opinion and leave. It's not all that constructive IMO. No hostility intended.

1. As a host sure I can set limitations and what not but what happens when I join a room and the host isn't there?

You can call a vote to kick a player. Also, if the host is fine with letting X1's in, that's his call. Personally, I avoid rooms that allow "free choice of cars" but don't allow the X1 in even if I won't be driving the X1, because I feel that's ridiculous.

2. If you don't think the X1 is unrealistic you're a complete idiot.

Show me the math. You don't convince an engineer or race team owner what's real or not with a single line.

The car blows away the best racing vehicles we see today, and there's nothing wrong with that. F1 cars are limited. Heavily. If the restrictions went away, we would be seeing cars more like the X1. 1500 hp engines, fan systems, full car aerodynamics, these are all real things. And they were all really effective

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_78

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral_2J#2J

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_in_cars

By 1986, a BMW turbocharged engine achieved a flash reading of 5.5 bar pressure, estimated to be over 1,300 bhp (970 kW) in qualifying for the Italian Grand Prix. The next year power in race trim reached around 1,100 bhp (820 kW), with boost pressure limited to only 4.0 bar.[23] These cars were the most powerful open-wheel circuit racing cars ever. To reduce engine power output and thus speeds, the FIA limited fuel tank capacity in 1984 and boost pressures in 1988 before banning turbocharged engines completely in 1989.[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1



And sometimes, really banned because they were so effective. The X1 puts all the best technology in one car and modernizes to the limit that we could have seen if all this technology wasn't banned.

A real X1 might not perform exactly like the X1 in GT5, but that goes for every car in the game. GT5 is good, but not excellent in terms of realism. One thing that is sure is that it's completely possible to blow a modern F1 car out of the water. You wouldn't endurance race it, you might not possible want to do a race of F1 grand prix length with it (reliability and car longevity isn't in GT anyway), but you could surely break F1 laps records by building a car not bound by F1 rules.

3. I don't drive the garbage.

Then why say anything?

4. There is competition with the A.I. it's just people like you who use way overpowered cars on the wrong tires for a particular event.

I'm not going to spend hours detuning (equal performance surely does not work) my car in a desperate attempt to give the AI a shot at beating me. I gave them chances. I took beat up used cars into races, and I've also tried downgrading my tires. I don't really feel that there is a point to dealing with the AI when you want challenging races. I want to fight for the top spot, not handicap myself repeatedly, so I go online. Though I have nothing against people who manage to make a challenge out of the AI. I'm just not one of those people.

By the way, ban the X1 and suddenly the FGT wins every race without a sweat with the possible except of the FGT series. Should we ban it, and then the next car, and then the next car, until the Sunday Cup is the only race in the game?

Like I previously said it's an opinion and I don't think you're going through yours enough, so stop critiquing others and move on.

As I said it's a discussion. You should expect to find your opinion in someone else's sights, and realize that there's no hostile intent behind it.

 

[Aaronrray]

The x1 is too extreme to be competitive, theres only 1 thing that allows a close race against an x1, and that is another x1.
But, if there is another car of similar capability to the x1, like that Lamborghini concept that is basically an x1, there would be good, cleaner, competitive races involving the x1.

 

[Crazed_Coupe]

It's just discussion. I don't usually go into a thread to drop an opinion and leave. It's not all that constructive IMO. No hostility intended.


You can call a vote to kick a player. Also, if the host is fine with letting X1's in, that's his call. Personally, I avoid rooms that allow "free choice of cars" but don't allow the X1 in even if I won't be driving the X1, because I feel that's ridiculous.


Show me the math. You don't convince an engineer or race team owner what's real or not with a single line.

The car blows away the best racing vehicles we see today, and there's nothing wrong with that. F1 cars are limited. Heavily. If the restrictions went away, we would be seeing cars more like the X1. 1500 hp engines, fan systems, full car aerodynamics, these are all real things. And they were all really effective

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_78

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral_2J#2J

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_in_cars



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1



And sometimes, really banned because they were so effective. The X1 puts all the best technology in one car and modernizes to the limit that we could have seen if all this technology wasn't banned.

A real X1 might not perform exactly like the X1 in GT5, but that goes for every car in the game. GT5 is good, but not excellent in terms of realism. One thing that is sure is that it's completely possible to blow a modern F1 car out of the water. You wouldn't endurance race it, you might not possible want to do a race of F1 grand prix length with it (reliability and car longevity isn't in GT anyway), but you could surely break F1 laps records by building a car not bound by F1 rules.


Then why say anything?


I'm not going to spend hours detuning (equal performance surely does not work) my car in a desperate attempt to give the AI a shot at beating me. I gave them chances. I took beat up used cars into races, and I've also tried downgrading my tires. I don't really feel that there is a point to dealing with the AI when you want challenging races. I want to fight for the top spot, not handicap myself repeatedly, so I go online. Though I have nothing against people who manage to make a challenge out of the AI. I'm just not one of those people.



As I said it's a discussion. You should expect to find your opinion in someone else's sights, and realize that there's no hostile intent behind it.

I'm not going to read through all of Wikipedia to try and figure out what you're trying to prove to me but the X1 isn't realistic whether you like it or not. I'm not going to argue the point, I'll let you figure that one out on your own.

So you're saying the A.I. is good competition but you just don't choose to give them a fair race, changing your mind much?

You ask me "why say anything" but like you said this is a question where there's a yes and a no, so why not give an example as to why I don't like the unrealistic garbage?

 

[deadlyguitarist]

lol yeah, it seems like a great car to have.. too bad it'll be banned from racing in real life, like the description said, it is a fan car, and those fan cars have some outrageous performance

 

[Exorcet]

I'm not going to read through all of Wikipedia to try and figure out what you're trying to prove to me but the X1 isn't realistic whether you like it or not. I'm not going to argue the point, I'll let you figure that one out on your own.

A cop out if I've ever seen one.

If you're not going to research to find the answer, don't make an answer up.

So you're saying the A.I. is good competition but you just don't choose to give them a fair race, changing your mind much?

To be frank, the AI is poorly skilled and can't give a good player a challenge without said player carefully manipulating the race odds. It's much easier to just go online.

You ask me "why say anything" but like you said this is a question where there's a yes and a no, so why not give an example as to why I don't like the unrealistic garbage?

What you said seemed to imply that it was a fact for everyone. And it isn't. Since "ruining the sense of speed" is not a yes or no, it must have a been a reason supporting your choice of yes or no. And it was a bad one.

 

[Crazed_Coupe]

A cop out if I've ever seen one.

If you're not going to research to find the answer, don't make an answer up.


To be frank, the AI is poorly skilled and can't give a good player a challenge without said player carefully manipulating the race odds. It's much easier to just go online.



What you said seemed to imply that it was a fact for everyone. And it isn't. Since "ruining the sense of speed" is not a yes or no, it must have a been a reason supporting your choice of yes or no. And it was a bad one.

It's most defiantly not a "cop out" buddy, I simple don't feel the car could be driven to its full potential without hurting the driver and the steering inputs would have to be put it within fractions of a second if remodeled exactly like the one in GT5. I know F1 drivers are very quick with steering inputs and just quick in general while behind the wheel of an F1 car but the X1 seems a bit too quick and just not safe in general, if like I said it was remodeled exactly like the one in GT5. Not many professional drivers have seen/driven the specs on the X1 which once again would support my other opinions.

The A.I.'s will give you a run for their money if you buy a car with the same power on the same tires without a doubt. They're not the best but they will put up a fight if you do what I said.

It was a bad one in your opinion, do I really have to go back through even opinionated statement I make and put an "IMO"? I guess I will have to because people like you can't seem to figure out what an opinion is obviously.

 

[Golz]

Isn't it pretty easy to restrict it from online races though? I like it, personally.

 

[MNLumberjack]

Don't remove it.
We all know how many updates that would take

 

[Exorcet]

It's most defiantly not a "cop out" buddy, I simple don't feel the car could be driven to its full potential without hurting the driver and the steering inputs would have to be put it within fractions of a second if remodeled exactly like the one in GT5. I know F1 drivers are very quick with steering inputs and just quick in general while behind the wheel of an F1 car but the X1 seems a bit too quick and just not safe in general, if like I said it was remodeled exactly like the one in GT5. Not many professional drivers have seen/driven the specs on the X1 which once again would support my other opinions.

But going by feel isn't very objective is what I'm saying. And the driver being hurt doesn't really effect how realistic the car is. The cars pulls 8 g whether the driver's dead or not. And it can go through a turn at 90 degrees per second whether the driver could react quickly or not.

And "modeled like in GT5" is different from "performing as it does in GT5". I'm fairly confident that the model of the car would be quite realistic, or at least more realistic than the performance in game. Not to say that either is completely realistic or not, that would take work to figure out conclusively. Although this work was supposedly already done when designing the virtual car.

Anyway, if you want to say

The X1 is unrealistic full stop

You're going to need a lengthy paper. Else, the best you can do is, I don't think it's realistic. And then argue points back and forth with someone who disagrees.

The A.I.'s will give you a run for their money if you buy a car with the same power on the same tires without a doubt. They're not the best but they will put up a fight if you do what I said.

Oddly enough I redid the FGT race at Fuji out of boredom recently because I remembered the FGT series as the most difficult race the AI provided. I was on the same tires and my car was geared such that the AI would be faster than me guaranteed. I pulled ahead of them at least 1 second a lap, probably more like 2.

Then there was the time I went to the Super GT with a Supra fresh from the UCD. Same tires as the AI, bad oil, flimsy chassis, and stock set up. The only time the AI made themselves known was when we raced door to door on the straights. They'd go flying by me, anywhere else they would fall behind. It literally takes me more effort to make the AI challenging than it would to make a race series with other drivers.

At some point, I think I even ballasted my car, or maybe that was GT4. I know in GT3 I happened to find that driving the Astra Touring Car at Midfield against Super GT cars made a decent challenge, but I could only do this so many times before figuring out the AI's routine.

It was a bad one in your opinion, do I really have to go back through even opinionated statement I make and put an "IMO"? I guess I will have to because people like you can't seem to figure out what an opinion is obviously.

It's quite clearly IMO (or IYO [In Your Opinion] from my POV). That's not the point. If it ruins your sense of speed, don't drive it. It shouldn't be an issue, unless you like driving it and don't like your sense of speed ruined. But that doesn't seem to be the case. I don't really consider something so easily avoided a reason to have the car removed from the game, or even a reason to dislike the car if you don't drive it in the first place.

I guess, I'm wondering what was the point in bringing sense of speed up? It doesn't necessarily hold any water except when brought up in reference to you, and in your case it's not an issue because you don't drive the car. The statement is just there.

 

[SkateNj]

its impossible to drive with a g27 so i dont want it.
the wheels wants to explode when i drive it

 

[rexc]

Of course it should be in the game. It's up to people if they want to use it, or hosts if they want to allow it. Anyway, its way better as a concept car than that ridiculous Nike thing in GT4.

Incidentally, ground effect cars were generally not banned because they were too effective, they were banned because they were too dangerous to anyone following behind. Any little bit of grit or debris on the track got sucked up and shot out the with deadly potential. Think Felipe Massa's accident, only smaller and faster.

 

[Crazed_Coupe]

But going by feel isn't very objective is what I'm saying. And the driver being hurt doesn't really effect how realistic the car is. The cars pulls 8 g whether the driver's dead or not. And it can go through a turn at 90 degrees per second whether the driver could react quickly or not.

And "modeled like in GT5" is different from "performing as it does in GT5". I'm fairly confident that the model of the car would be quite realistic, or at least more realistic than the performance in game. Not to say that either is completely realistic or not, that would take work to figure out conclusively. Although this work was supposedly already done when designing the virtual car.

Anyway, if you want to say

The X1 is unrealistic full stop

You're going to need a lengthy paper. Else, the best you can do is, I don't think it's realistic. And then argue points back and forth with someone who disagrees.


Oddly enough I redid the FGT race at Fuji out of boredom recently because I remembered the FGT series as the most difficult race the AI provided. I was on the same tires and my car was geared such that the AI would be faster than me guaranteed. I pulled ahead of them at least 1 second a lap, probably more like 2.

Then there was the time I went to the Super GT with a Supra fresh from the UCD. Same tires as the AI, bad oil, flimsy chassis, and stock set up. The only time the AI made themselves known was when we raced door to door on the straights. They'd go flying by me, anywhere else they would fall behind. It literally takes me more effort to make the AI challenging than it would to make a race series with other drivers.

At some point, I think I even ballasted my car, or maybe that was GT4. I know in GT3 I happened to find that driving the Astra Touring Car at Midfield against Super GT cars made a decent challenge, but I could only do this so many times before figuring out the AI's routine.



It's quite clearly IMO (or IYO [In Your Opinion] from my POV). That's not the point. If it ruins your sense of speed, don't drive it. It shouldn't be an issue, unless you like driving it and don't like your sense of speed ruined. But that doesn't seem to be the case. I don't really consider something so easily avoided a reason to have the car removed from the game, or even a reason to dislike the car if you don't drive it in the first place.

I guess, I'm wondering what was the point in bringing sense of speed up? It doesn't necessarily hold any water except when brought up in reference to you, and in your case it's not an issue because you don't drive the car. The statement is just there.

Whatever you say.

 

[ChicoMaloXD]

Don't be bitter, leave the car alone.
It's cool for tracks like La Sarthe, not for small, full of curves ones.
I rarely see X2010's online.

 

[deadlyguitarist]

those who havent seen much x1s online. then u havent been in the majority of the poorly hosted rooms

 

[Aaronrray]

Don't be bitter, leave the car alone.
It's cool for tracks like La Sarthe, not for small, full of curves ones.
I rarely see X2010's online.

Its wicked on monza

 

[gt addict]

Very hard to get and for the few that can get it good for you but ramming and online is just dumb. It only takes skill to win the car not race with it online. I don't really care I'm trying to unlock it and it's really making me mad on the ring track I csnt even medal on it. I lost a bronze place by .013

 

[Eric W]

Personally, I really could care less about the X1. I just wish that there was a way to prevent it from being used online like with the Ferrari F1's. X1's should only be raced with other X1's and nothing else.

Yeah, I know you can restrict the HP and PP in a room but I just wish that it could be excluded as a choice.

 

[Jahodac]

They could remove them, fix track glitches and reintroduce them through an online event again. This way, only people who earned it fairly can have them thus getting rid of the disruptive people who just traded for all of them or glitched the tracks and are absolutely terrible at driving them.

It seems to be the younger guys who crash into people and use them to win race events despite spinning out several times.

Overall, I am fine with them staying. I love driving the Ferrari F1s and the X2010. I wish PD added more F1 cars to the game, unfortunately they can't because of licensing issues.

Nothing like driving around Laguna Seca at blistering speeds!

 

[Ganon83]

Ristrict them online, but instead of just putting a "X2010 Only" option, also put a "No X2010s" option.
I don't really care about the car itself, but I think PD wouldn't just take it out of the game. After all, they had the F1 WORLD DRIVERS CHAMPION promote it, so they'd be idiots from a business perspective.