Young children should not be smacked as a means of punishment.

[Encyclopedia]

So they act out even more?

I can't see that happening in other than extreme cases. In which case it's probably a good idea to look for help.

 

[Pagey279]

I can't see that happening in other than extreme cases. In which case it's probably a good idea to look for help.

Or give them a palm to the backside and say enough is enough.

 

[Encyclopedia]

I don't think we'll be agreeing anytime soon.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

So as long as it's done with restraint (how much btw) it cannot be violence?

Yes. From the 15 or so definitions of 'violent' and 'violence' I have just read, none mention restraint. Most mention a sudden use of excessive force, intent to harm or kill, or acting without caring about the potential consequences. None of this should be happening when you physically discipline a child. If it is, that's child abuse.

You can grab/carry away/ignore and pretend to leave them etc. The list goes on. I still fail to see the need to smack them.

You're missing something that people keep repeating - physical discipline is not the first step, but the very last. You only smack/spank after you have been through whatever discipline model you follow with no success.

In my opinion, the methods that you have mentioned only make things worse in the long-term. It's much better to keep the child involved with whatever it is that you're doing, as then they are too busy/distracted to misbehave. Shocking, huh? Kids misbehave when they are bored and want attention, who knew?!

EDIT: As Doth1s said, ignoring a child set on having a tantrum will make them more determined. If you want to spend your time with your child ignoring them, walking around a store with them screaming their lungs out, or returning them to the naughty step over and over, carry on.

The important part that jumping right into discipline misses is how the child is brought up as a whole. If you raise a kid right, they won't misbehave (much) because they won't feel that they need to act up to get attention. As I said before, keeping them involved with what is going on is a good way to achieve this.

As for giving up and looking for help - whut. Sounds similar to calling an armed cop because a gunman just shot you - if you carry the right tools (in this case, parenting skills) you won't need to call for backup.

 

[Spoil-t]

When my parents took away my PS1/PS2/PC I shrug it off & watched TV but when they whacked me upside the head I listened & behave. If you ain't going to discipline your children right you shouldn't have them. The day when you need a license to parent is the day this world gets slightly better because quite frankly most people shouldn't procreate.

 

[Encyclopedia]

You bring up some valid points MarinaDiamandis, I will consider them.

Spoil-t, basicaly no one in Sweden should have kids then. Disciplining your children with physical force even if it's just a slap or a hard grab will land you in jail.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Kids will take advantage of a parent. Until you show them who's boss, they will misbehave. Sometimes, they need that reminder too.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

You bring up some valid points MarinaDiamandis, I will consider them.

Thank you, even though I am for smacking/spanking, I still think that avoiding those situations is the most important.

It's interesting that you brought up the subject of smacking/spanking being illegal in Sweden as, in my experience, Scandinavian children seem to be much better behaved than British children. I could be wrong.

 

[niky]

It just doesn't work that way. I was hit when I was a kid, sometimes pretty hard for stupid stuff I did. Now I thank them for hitting me.

You thank them because they conditioned you to believe hitting children is okay? Because that's all that that accomplished.

Not in the case of physical discipline done correctly. Using the word violent to describe it is trying to paint it as uncontrolled and harmful to the recipient, of which it is the complete opposite.

Causing physical pain to another human being is violence. Even incarceration or deprivation is classified as violence.

-

As a teacher and a special educator, I'm painfully aware of what physical punishment accomplishes. And what it accomplishes is basically a conditioning of the child to believe that physical punishment is an acceptable mode of social interaction. As I have been conditioned to believe, and as I have worked for the past several years to decondition myself believing.

Physical punishment will not stop misbehavior. Not until it gets to the point where children actively fear their parents, which is an unhealthy relationship and affects the way those children will interact with their life partners and their own children when they grow older.

"Misbehavior" for children is not voluntary. As you have said, children misbehave when they are bored or seeking attention. They also misbehave because they do not have a full understanding of the consequences of their actions, they have a lack of impulse control and they have a lack of boundaries. This is something we deal with in cases where children have ADHD, as they may technically know what proper social behavior is, but lack the impulse control or attention span to follow social norms. They cannot learn in he same way regular children can, and must be guided accordingly.

-

It's really a case of setting the proper boundaries and strictly implementing them. Prevention. Once you are forced to apply deprivation punishment, that means that you have failed at prevention and need to take remedial steps. If you feel the need to apply physical punishment, that means you have failed the test of patience and are propagating the stereotype that all "misbehaviour" requires physical punishment.

Children who are spanked are more likely to hit other children, and to internalize that behaviour when grown up.

-

Things get worse when you consider that there are children with chemical imbalances or pre-existing conditions that make it impossible for them to "behave" properly. In which case, physical punishment is not deserved, doesn't work, and only makes matters worse for the child.

-

Having ADHD, I certainly wish these things were known when I was growing up. All spanking ever gave me was a violent streak that manifests when I am frustrated. I've built up enough control that I do not hit people, or that I no longer spank my kid, but that's something that should never have been there in the first place.

Once you get to the point where physical punishment is the only resort, that's a failure of parenting... both on your part and the part of your parents. I'm not too proud to admit that I have failed at times, despite my education on childhood development, but I'm also not too proud to ask for help and guidance when I need it. No parent should be.

 

[Zenith]

My mother's-side grandfather never lay a finger on any one of his 11 children, my father's side grandfather hit his children as a means of punishment. Today my mother's side family is as loving and caring for each other as they come while my father's side family is entangled in legal problems and have had violent exchanges between each other as adults.

 

[ShobThaBob]

If hitting someone in the adult world because they did something you don't like will land you in jail, why is it that so many people think that the same thing shouldn't apply to kids. It's ok to hit our kids because they're kids. It's not ok to hit adults because they're adults. It doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Grayfox]

If hitting someone in the adult world because they did something you don't like will land you in jail, why is it that so many people think that the same thing shouldn't apply to kids. It's ok to hit our kids because they're kids. It's not ok to hit adults because they're adults. It doesn't make much sense to me.

When kids steal someones car, go joy riding, and destroy the car why should they be treated as minors and be let off scott free?

Make no sense as it just says you can do it again and you will not get in trouble.

 

[Northstar]

My mother's-side grandfather never lay a finger on any one of his 11 children, my father's side grandfather hit his children as a means of punishment. Today my mother's side family is as loving and caring for each other as they come while my father's side family is entangled in legal problems and have had violent exchanges between each other as adults.

My aunt never hit her two daughters, one is an alcoholic who is on the verge of losing her kids and the other is a recovering meth-addict who just regained visitation of her kid a few months ago.

How a child turns out as an adult depends on alot more than how they were punished as a child.

If hitting someone in the adult world because they did something you don't like will land you in jail,

Everything that would have gotten me spanked as a child would get me justifiably beaten as an adult. I only remember getting spanked twice, once was for hitting another child with a toy and another was intentionally breaking a plate. Now as an adult I would be stupid to not expect retaliation if I went up and punched a stranger or damaged someone's property on purpose.

 

[BobK]

Causing physical pain to another human being is violence. Even incarceration or deprivation is classified as violence.

Although I agree with the first sentence, I flatly reject the second. That's the kind of thing you hear from the "any form of punishment is evil" crowd.

Physical punishment will not stop misbehavior. Not until it gets to the point where children actively fear their parents, which is an unhealthy relationship and affects the way those children will interact with their life partners and their own children when they grow older.

Again I disagree, pointing to myself as Exhibit "A". I learned at an early age that if I got too far out of line the response would be painful. This does not mean I was spanked for the slightest transgression. It does mean if my behavior was sufficiently awful there would be retribution.

"Misbehavior" for children is not voluntary. As you have said, children misbehave when they are bored or seeking attention. They also misbehave because they do not have a full understanding of the consequences of their actions, they have a lack of impulse control and they have a lack of boundaries.

You do have a point here except for the first sentence, but on the other hand kids will learn when bribery works. An example is the kid who throws a tantrum in the store until his parent buys that toy he wants, or a treat of some sort. Not that it's a deliberately calculated action for the most part, but it does have a purpose.

It's really a case of setting the proper boundaries and strictly implementing them. Prevention. Once you are forced to apply deprivation punishment, that means that you have failed at prevention and need to take remedial steps. If you feel the need to apply physical punishment, that means you have failed the test of patience and are propagating the stereotype that all "misbehaviour" requires physical punishment.

And here, with respect, is utter hogwash. If a parent strikes the kid for every misstep, then you may have a point. But if a spanking is a last resort, and just one tool in the "upbringing toolbox", no such stereotype gets propagated.

Children who are spanked are more likely to hit other children, and to internalize that behaviour when grown up.

And that, I believe is an over-generalization. While true in some cases, I don't think it's necessarily true when spanking is part of a measured response.


One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this entire thread, though, is a very important principle. DO NOT discipline a child while you're angry at them. The more severe the punishment you're considering, the more time you should reflect on what you're contemplating. That doesn't mean you should wait a half a day particularly with a younger child, but you really need to cool down and wait for the heat of the moment to pass before reacting.

 

[ShobThaBob]

When kids steal someones car, go joy riding, and destroy the car why should they be treated as minors and be let off scott free?

Make no sense as it just says you can do it again and you will not get in trouble.

Those kids need to be sent off to a juvenile facility. That is way past the point where parents should be allowed to continue doing their job. They've already failed.

Also, unless someone is trying to harm you, there's no reason to ever be physically violent with someone. You call the police if they're vandalizing your property or something of the sort. Attacking someone out of retaliation is always wrong, no matter how good it may feel.

 

[Grayfox]

Those kids need to be sent off to a juvenile facility. That is way past the point where parents should be allowed to continue doing their job. They've already failed.

Failed because they didnt care or couldn't really discipline them, telling them NO! doesn't work, look at Kim Jong Un, everyone is telling him to calm the farm down be he isn't, what hope do parents have against a child who is hard to control.

Also most likely thing to happen to those kids is, parents foot the bill and the juvenile gets a good behavior bond.

You call the police if they're vandalizing your property or something of the sort.

Police do not care about someone vandalizing your property, by the time they respond the damage has been done and you are left to foot the bill.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Personally, based on my experience, it can work, but I'm sure that it doesn't work on all kids. As the recipient of a few smacks and slaps when I was younger I would say it never did me any harm, and it did teach me a lesson, for example.. the first time I ever swore in front of my Mum, she gave me a clip round the ear so hard it knocked me off my feet, I didn't even swear at her, I swore because something I'd made broke! - I was probably about 7 or 8 at the time, I'm now in my 30's and STILL don't swear in front of my parents (I swear like an automated swearing machine the rest of the time however). The only other time I specifically remember, was when I was little she smacked me on the back of the hand with a hairbrush, that HURT, and I'm pretty sure I stopped doing what I shouldn't have been doing. There were lots of other times, but they were just 'smacked bottoms'!

To be fair as well, there probably weren't many other punishments that would have worked on me anyway. I recall sitting at the dinner table for hours because I wouldn't eat my dinner - and in an effort to make me I wasn't allowed to leave the table unless I did. Once it was bed-time, I left the table, having not eaten my dinner, and went to bed. It wasn't like they could ground me, because we lived in a house MILES from anywhere anyway so I ust never went out anyway, I didn't get pocket money anyway, and back in those days I was only allowed a few hours a week on the computer (Spectrum 128k!) anyway, because it meant nobody else could watch TV in the house!

Of the many things that are wrong with me now, hitting people in anger isn't one of them.

Even in school we'd get a wooden ruler across the knuckles for misbehaving, and one lad was even tied to the teachers desk with a piece of cord around his wrist and the table leg, because he bit another pupil! (act like a dog, get treated like a dog!)

So now, even though I don't have my own kids, I have smacked both my god-children, (with the consent of their parents I might add) The elder of the two, now 9, will quieten right down, pull a sad face and go all sulky, and is right as rain 5 minutes later. The younger one, now 8, will usually turn round and punch you straight in the family jewels if you smack him.. so it really doesn't work with him, because then you have to find an explanation as to why it's okay for you to hit him, and not the other way round (smart kid!), so he's much harder to discipline.

Now they are both getting to the stage that they are 'adult enough', to be reasoned with when they misbehave, occasionally they'll even apologise without being prompted.

Some kids are just ****-bags though, and I can't see how wrong parenting can go in the first couple of years for some kids to already be that hard to control by the time they are 3! But then I don't have, nor want, kids of my own so I don't really have to worry about it that much.

 

[ShobThaBob]

Failed because they didnt care or couldn't really discipline them, telling them NO! doesn't work, look at Kim Jong Un, everyone is telling him to calm the farm down be he isn't, what hope do parents have against a child who is hard to control.

Also most likely thing to happen to those kids is, parents foot the bill and the juvenile gets a good behavior bond.

What? What does Kim Jong Un have to do with anything at all? And yes, parents will foot the bill, and they can still send their kids to a detention facility if they want to.

Police do not care about someone vandalizing your property, by the time they respond the damage has been done and you are left to foot the bill.

Defending yourself and your property is one thing (hint, you're still gonna have to foot the bill), but you don't go around beating people or fighting them as punishment for the things they do. The notion is just absurd.

 

[Northstar]

What? What does Kim Jong Un have to do with anything at all?

Saying "No" and only "No" doesn't work.

and they can still send their kids to a detention facility if they want to.

What about when they get out?

I've been around kids before and after they go to juvenile center's, they rarely change. It's the same thing with adult's, sure some get straightened out by their "time out" in jail but most end up back there(I think it's like 60% in the U.S.).

Defending yourself and your property is one thing (hint, you're still gonna have to foot the bill), but you don't go around beating people or fighting them as punishment for the things they do. The notion is just absurd.

So if someone was in the act of vandalizing your property you would just stand there? What about if they were robbing you? What if a group of people were beating someone up, would you just stand there or would you try to break it up?

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

You thank them because they conditioned you to believe hitting children is okay? Because that's all that that accomplished.

Why is that a bad thing? Not all children who are spanked/smacked grow up into monsters, so it's obviously not the hitting alone that causes them to turn out like that.

[Causing physical pain to another human being is violence. Even incarceration or deprivation is classified as violence.

So a doctor giving a child a shot is violence? Medical professionals are being violent towards babies! Oh, the humanity!

Children who are spanked are more likely to hit other children, and to internalize that behaviour when grown up.

Source?

Once you get to the point where physical punishment is the only resort, that's a failure of parenting...

Again, opinion, not fact.

 

[ShobThaBob]

Saying "No" and only "No" doesn't work.

What does that have a to with a world leader? I don't understand. He isn't a child.

What about when they get out?

I've been around kids before and after they go to juvenile center's, they rarely change. It's the same thing with adult's, sure some get straightened out by their "time out" in jail but most end up back there(I think it's like 60% in the U.S.).

At that point, they need serious help. No amount of talking tos or beatings are going to stop children who are stealing cars.

So if someone was in the act of vandalizing your property you would just stand there? What about if they were robbing you? What if a group of people were beating someone up, would you just stand there or would you try to break it up?

All of those are stupid questions. Every situation is different and the only thing that would be the same for every one of those is this - calling the cops.

 

[Northstar]

At that point, they need serious help. No amount of talking tos or beatings are going to stop children who are stealing cars.

So what do your recommend?

calling the cops.

Why wait 3-5 minutes(if they decide it's an emergency) when a fist can stop it in 10 seconds.

 

[niky]

Calling the cops makes you a good citizen. Using your fists gets you sued or put in jail alongside the other party.

And here, with respect, is utter hogwash. If a parent strikes the kid for every misstep, then you may have a point. But if a spanking is a last resort, and just one tool in the "upbringing toolbox", no such stereotype gets propagated.

Thank you for calling my field of study utter hogwash. But more seriously, punishment is not a preventive tool. The effects of punishment may mask the symptoms, but they do not address the underlying cause of the behavior. And the side effects, are, again, the propagation of the very stereotype you are defending.

We instinctively defend punishment because it is what we grew up with. We believe that we grew up the way we did, and achieved the level of self-control and social acceptability we have because of punishment. But the values we internalize are not often internalized because we were forced to internalize them, but because the behavior and values were modelled by our elders.

And that, I believe is an over-generalization. While true in some cases, I don't think it's necessarily true when spanking is part of a measured response.

Study suggests that there is no difference between measured and un-measured. I used to be of the mindset that measured physical punishment was okay, but from use and observation, along with my wife (who is also a trained special educator), I've noted that the effect is simply to distress children, without touching the underlying cause (which, at this point of development, is simply the struggle to develop impulse control).

Why is that a bad thing? Not all children who are spanked/smacked grow up into monsters, so it's obviously not the hitting alone that causes them to turn out like that.

Again I disagree, pointing to myself as Exhibit "A". I learned at an early age that if I got too far out of line the response would be painful. This does not mean I was spanked for the slightest transgression. It does mean if my behavior was sufficiently awful there would be retribution.

Just because most children are mentally balanced enough to survive physical punishment without any psychological side effects besides a belief that physically punishing a child is okay, doesn't mean all are. Or, as an analogy, just because most people suffer no ill effects from a concussion doesn't mean that the very real danger of losing IQ points from a concussion doesn't exist.

Although I agree with the first sentence, I flatly reject the second. That's the kind of thing you hear from the "any form of punishment is evil" crowd.

So a doctor giving a child a shot is violence? Medical professionals are being violent towards babies! Oh, the humanity!

Do I need to roll out a rolleyes smiley? No? Can we discuss this like adults, then?

I'm quoting from the technical definition, as put forth by UNICEF, thank you very much, and it is not my opinion.

http://www.unicef.org/progressforchildren/2007n6/index_41849.htm

Personally, I think that deprivation of priveleges should not count in that definition... but deprivation of sleep, food and shelter would. Still, prevention and remediation are better than punishment.

Source?

I am a special education teacher, and we took this up in school long ago. It's supported in study and the science is sound, but if you'd like sources, there are quite a few out there:

http://www.neverhitachild.org/areview.html
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120206122447.htm
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-06-28/spanking-mental-problems/55964610/1

Frankly, I'm surprised that the last one was news... as we had discussed this in class over a decade ago, and the link was already suspected back then.

Again, opinion, not fact.

Opinion based on science. Basically, once you get to the point where you feel that corporal punishment is the only resort, it's time to step back and re-evaluate the situation and see what else you could have done.

This is speaking as someone who has been slapped, kicked and screamed at by numerous students and patients. There is always another way.

You do have a point here except for the first sentence, but on the other hand kids will learn when bribery works. An example is the kid who throws a tantrum in the store until his parent buys that toy he wants, or a treat of some sort. Not that it's a deliberately calculated action for the most part, but it does have a purpose.

What I mean is that the reason children misbehave is not the reason adults associate with such behaviour. Acting out can be a call for attention, due to poor impulse control, due to a mental condition that causes poor impulse control or poor meta-thinking skills.

As for bribery... You SHOULD NOT be permissive. You SHOULD NOT let incorrect actions slide. Proper parenting is firm but not aggressive or combative. Frankly, I'm surprised at parents who tell a screaming child that they will ignore their tantrum, then spend the next twenty minutes standing there, "ignoring" it, and telling the child that they are ignoring them. Bravo!

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this entire thread, though, is a very important principle. DO NOT discipline a child while you're angry at them. The more severe the punishment you're considering, the more time you should reflect on what you're contemplating. That doesn't mean you should wait a half a day particularly with a younger child, but you really need to cool down and wait for the heat of the moment to pass before reacting.

This much is true. And, usually, physical punishment doesn't seem so important after some time has passed, where you can assess a more appropriate punishment for the nature of the offense. Just be careful not to wait too long. Children have short memories. If the timing between offense and remediation is too long, then whatever reaction you have becomes useless.

I'm not the type who subscribes to permissive parenting. That's a fallacy based on wishful thinking and rainbows and moonbeams. Instead, it's in every parent's best interest to really sit down and study child psychology seriously. Actually... it should be required of anyone who cares for a child, period.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

I am a special education teacher, and we took this up in school long ago. It's supported in study and the science is sound, but if you'd like sources, there are quite a few out there:

http://www.neverhitachild.org/areview.html
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120206122447.htm
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-06-28/spanking-mental-problems/55964610/1

Thank you, very interesting. I have read about similar studies before, but obviously personal experience has skewed what I took from them. I have grown up around physical discipline, coming from a big family and having lots of cousins, and not one of us has shown any negative effect from being disciplined in that way. Over such a large group I find it odd that not one has been negatively effected by it.

Opinion based on science. Basically, once you get to the point where you feel that corporal punishment is the only resort, it's time to step back and re-evaluate the situation and see what else you could have done.

So what else can be done, in your experience, once a child has become borderline uncontrollable? Let's say that you're out shopping in public, and the child is throwing a huge tantrum - how would you deal with this? Or is it a case of prevention alone?

As I have never raised a child from the day that they were born (I don't have a child of my own but have been very involved with raising my friends daughter since she was only a few years old), I have never met a child raised in the way that I would raise one of my own. Oddly, physical discipline would not be part of that upbringing!

Would it be too much to say that the bad behaviour that my friends daughter exhibits (albeit very rarely) might have already been established before I started playing a part in her life? Or will bad behaviour manifest itself in certain situations, no matter how the child was brought up?

 

[sumbrownkid]

I got hit when I was younger and I turned out alright...I hope.

Anyway whenever I was smacked it was accompanied by an explanation as to why I was hit. Interestingly enough my mom did all the hitting while my dad usually just vocally reprimanded me. I understand why people think smacking is wrong though.

Sometimes a parent can take the smacking a bit too far. My mom usually ended it at slap to the shoulder or butt. If I said a bad word I got a flick to the mouth by her index finger. It stings like hell but it goes away after a moment or two. Worst I've gotten was a small hanger slap to the butt because I was being very rude. But to hear stories of kids getting punched by mom or dad is messed up. But I don't think spanking as a whole is entirely wrong. Sometimes a kid just needs to be hit.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Thank you, even though I am for smacking/spanking, I still think that avoiding those situations is the most important.

It's interesting that you brought up the subject of smacking/spanking being illegal in Sweden as, in my experience, Scandinavian children seem to be much better behaved than British children. I could be wrong.

I see where you're coming from but, no matter how I spin it, I just can't see inflicting pain as a respectable form of punishment. It just screams wrong to me. Something that belongs in the past.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

Oh God if you had Albanian parents... If the kid does anything minor wrong I would understand. If he disrespects his own parents, you get your *** spanked! Your parents have raised you to know better, not to disrespect the people who have raised you, paid for your diapers, paid your entertainment bills, etc. You should respect them for what they go through for you. Now, I am not to talking to anyone directly, but some of you people don't understand that sometimes, you don't learn the lesson the easy way. And getting hurt more than you deserve is another story.

 

[niky]

Thank you, very interesting. I have read about similar studies before, but obviously personal experience has skewed what I took from them. I have grown up around physical discipline, coming from a big family and having lots of cousins, and not one of us has shown any negative effect from being disciplined in that way. Over such a large group I find it odd that not one has been negatively effected by it.

To be fair, there is the factor, one that cannot be discounted, that mental issues are hereditary, and that parents that feel the greater urge to spank (beyond simple discipline) already have pre-existing conditions... in which case spanking and mental illness in the children can be signs of illness in the parents. (Again, though, not saying any of us are mentally ill... we feel spanking is right because we grew up with it).

With your family, hereditary factors predispose you to be well-balanced. The question is, whether you would be better or worse off without discipline.

So what else can be done, in your experience, once a child has become borderline uncontrollable? Let's say that you're out shopping in public, and the child is throwing a huge tantrum - how would you deal with this? Or is it a case of prevention alone?

Ignore. If you tell the child you're ignoring them, do it. Don't talk to them, don't try to reason. (Once you start negotiating from this position, the child is in control) If the child becomes disruptive, isolate them from the crowd, find a timeout area.

Once the child has stopped and is calm, you are in a position of control. Remind them that you are in control and that you won't give in just because they throw a fit.

As I have never raised a child from the day that they were born (I don't have a child of my own but have been very involved with raising my friends daughter since she was only a few years old), I have never met a child raised in the way that I would raise one of my own. Oddly, physical discipline would not be part of that upbringing!

Would it be too much to say that the bad behaviour that my friends daughter exhibits (albeit very rarely) might have already been established before I started playing a part in her life? Or will bad behaviour manifest itself in certain situations, no matter how the child was brought up?

I swore I would never spank. A rule I broke when my child reached the terrible (or was that troublesome) threes. Truthfully, it's very, very hard not to spank. But it's a process. You've got to find a way of control that works. Each child is different. Now, despite my rhetoric, I cannot say fully that spanking does not work, but it definitely has a negative psychological and developmental effect on the child, and that must be weighed against any potential gain in discipline.

I've met perfectly adjusted, perfectly moral and perfectly sane people who have never been spanked. And I've met rotters. I can say the same about those who were spanked, too.

Yes, sometimes bad behaviour will show up no matter what you do. The question is what the cause is. If the child has an issue like ADHD or, worse, mental illness... then spanking will not have the desired effect, and you're punishing them for something they cannot control as readily or as easily as "normal" people.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Thanks for the reply, niky. If my friends daughter wasn't now old enough to be reasoned with, I would certainly be making some changes.

 

[Villain]

Fascinating. I'm an ADHD kid and I can tell you straight off that getting spanked, slapped, or taking a belt across my thighs (oooooh that hurts; and for the record - my parents never left a mark) never worked.

I would recieve the punishment because I was misbehaving or not doing my homework. Guess what? I didn't start applying myself in school until I was 23. I'm a great student now, but I barely graduated high school even though I was a fairly bright kid. I don't think I can credit physical punishment for any of the lessons I've learned in my life. As a matter of fact, I would actually prefer getting the belt because that punishment usually meant that I wouldn't be grounded for as long of a period of time.