Your opinion on Racing Softs?

[JBanton]

Racing Soft Tyres?

Alien Technology...

 

[TomBrady]

rs = my opinion will probably get me in trouble here lol.
What really makes me laugh is when people couple rs with aids... That's like hoisting a flag saying that you can't drive. Lol. Get some self respect.

hahahaha +1000000000000000000000000000000

What you showed is a F1 car with grooved tires.

If a skilled F10 user could do a comparison between the real life F10 and the GT5 version on the various racing compounds, it could help somewhat. But do bare in mind the 2010 Bridgestone tires were like concrete, and due to a lack of a 2011 F1 in GT5 we cant test GT5 tires vs modern Pirelli F1 tires.

EDIT: To answer the thread, there is nothing wrong with them imo. The amount of elitism thrown around is ridiculous. You only drive the Ring in the Yellow Bird using Comfort Hards? Good for you!
Those that claim it is no fun, you are wrong, stop portraying your opinion as fact. I have had more fun with a tuned Prius on Racing Softs on tight tracks than I probably ever will with 'pro' tires on X supercar.

The only car I use Comfort Tires is the X2010 and X2011, Comfort Hards make it far less twitchy so I have an easier time controlling it, and thus get quicker and more consistent lap times.

On some sports cars I will hapily use Sport Soft, and use the other racing tires on mid ranged race cars, but I prefer RS on most.
And as was said above, a great driver is a great driver, no matter what tire he uses. A noob is still a noob, no matter the tire.

It's not just about fun or not fun. I'm sure people using controllers can still have fun on racing softs, the problem is all the noobs who use them 100% of the time when that is completely unnecessary.

Not to mention, this is a simulator. I just don't see the point of playing a sim that way, with no regard or care for realism at all. The biggest reason racing soft tires disgust us is because it makes GT5 seem like an arcade game. They're just TOO GRIPPY, on any car. They're unrealistic, and it's one thing if you controller players need a little extra help to drive a zonda R, or a Mclaren F1 race car, but it's just pathetic to see that some controller guys use racing softs on 400pp cars, WITH TCS and SKID RECOVERY!!!! That's just something else entirely.

It's not "tire elitism", it's a respect for the simulator, something you racing soft junkies simply don't have.

If you really like that kind of racing, no challenge at all, easy as pie, driving unrealistically fast, go play forza or grid.

 

[White & Nerdy]

As I recall, they're pretty much the online standard. I use them on road cars without shame.

 

[mikeonthebike]

Check this out: (Done on Comfort Soft tires)

EDITED FOR CLARIFICATION to make sure it's not being taken as I did this video. I did the same thing as what this guy did in the video. I didn't make the video

I did this recently, I used what he has of the tune that is listed, same car, comfort softs and made some minor changes to the default lsd and suspension settings and I've been able to get down to a 1:49 and some tenths

THE funny thing about this is one night my friends and I had the same car running with similar tune and we were taking turns seeing who could do the hot lap and reset the ghost on SPA. Those times were saved for spa in practice mode and we were using racing soft and the time was 1:59 and some tenths and I was able to blow that time out of the water in my first lap with the comfort softs.

I since tried the formula gran turismo with default tune and a lil more top end so it wouldn't hit rev limiter down the long strait and the FGT drives amazing on comfort softs as well.

I'm going to try to get some friends together in a room, distribute the tune to everybody and run comfort softs and have a hell of a formula race. I did stints up to 8 laps with tire wear on with both cars and they still held firmly and had very good feedback.

 

[iamsupernasty]

While I agree that it takes skill to drive cars fast on RS, I believe it's a different skill than is required to drive on sports/comfort tires.

The skills required to drive ultra fast on RS is akin more to the skills required to be fast on NFS or Burnouts moreso than the skills required to be fast in a real race car or simulator.
On RS you are full throttle so much, that the game becomes more of a point/shoot/brake routine, and far less of a simulator where the goal is to simultaneously adjust all of your cars input in order to manipulate your cars mechanical grip.

On crap tires there is more involved in terms of who can get their power down quicker, instead of who can turn in at the exact perfect time. As a result, qualifying times are often much more diversified on crummy tires because there is a ton of finesse and skill required to nail a turn exit; finesse that is not necessarily required with the same car on RS.

Lastly, IMO of course, RS completely kills the handling traits of road cars and makes them all feel very similar. Weight transfer is far less important, and if you bomb into a turn too fast it's easy easier to correct the issue without loosing massive amounts of time.

 

[JrDarknes]

As I recall, they're pretty much the online standard. I use them on road cars without shame.

Yes. +1

 

[grog]

One important thing to note about racing tires compared to sport/comfort tires is that while they offer much more grip they also have the potential to snap oversteer. Where the other tires tend to slide gently in a more controllable way.

So while the sport and comfort tires provide less grip than racing tires I believe they are more forgiving.

 

[Johnnypenso]

While I agree that it takes skill to drive cars fast on RS, I believe it's a different skill than is required to drive on sports/comfort tires.

The skills required to drive ultra fast on RS is akin more to the skills required to be fast on NFS or Burnouts moreso than the skills required to be fast in a real race car or simulator.
On RS you are full throttle so much, that the game becomes more of a point/shoot/brake routine, and far less of a simulator where the goal is to simultaneously adjust all of your cars input in order to manipulate your cars mechanical grip.

On crap tires there is more involved in terms of who can get their power down quicker, instead of who can turn in at the exact perfect time. As a result, qualifying times are often much more diversified on crummy tires because there is a ton of finesse and skill required to nail a turn exit; finesse that is not necessarily required with the same car on RS.

Lastly, IMO of course, RS completely kills the handling traits of road cars and makes them all feel very similar. Weight transfer is far less important, and if you bomb into a turn too fast it's easy easier to correct the issue without loosing massive amounts of time.

If you're talking about racing a 450pp car on CS tires vs. RS tires then I agree. But comapring 450 pp on CS or SH vs street or race cars at 600pp is a much more relevant comparison. Running around with 250 hp on RS tires is relatively easy because the RS tires increase the cornering limits of the car so much it's hard to push the car behond them in many corners. But when you put harder compounds on slower cars and softer compounds on the faster and more powerful cars, everything that happens with Sports Tires happens with Racing tires just to a different degree and at different speeds and thresholds. Trying to squeeze the last tenth or two out of racing tires can be just as challenging as squeezing the last tenth out of any grade of tires on the appropriate car.

Finesse is not required on RS tires at all if your goal is getting around the circuit. It is required if you want to be anywhere near the front in an online race of 10 people. Nobody wins races online bombing into turns unless everyone else in the room sucks as bad as they do. One could even make the argument that mistakes on RS tires are far more critical because if everyone is running around the track so perfectly as you suggest, then one mistake will cost you the race because they are so easy to drive at the limit...which they aren't.

On RS tires reaction times must be quicker because you are cornering faster. I race on everything from Comfort Softs to RS tires and I can tell you from my own experience, things happen a lot slower at 450 pp on CS tires than they do at 600 pp on RS tires and both require a great deal of skill and precision to get around the track anywhere near their potential. Trying to nail the last corner at Deep Forest at 160 km/h seems like slow motion sometimes compared to an RS approach speed of 240 km/h. A mistake of just 5/100th of a second in reaction time at 240 km/h puts you 10 feet off the apex if you aren't quick enough to correct for it.

 

[JrDarknes]

One important thing to note about racing tires compared to sport/comfort tires is that while they offer much more grip they also have the potential to snap oversteer. Where the other tires tend to slide gently in a more controllable way.

So while the sport and comfort tires provide less grip than racing tires I believe they are more forgiving.

Is that why the Corvette zr1 dosent turn right on racing softs?

 

[Spinodontosaur4]

hahahaha +1000000000000000000000000000000





It's not just about fun or not fun. I'm sure people using controllers can still have fun on racing softs, the problem is all the noobs who use them 100% of the time when that is completely unnecessary.

Not to mention, this is a simulator. I just don't see the point of playing a sim that way, with no regard or care for realism at all. The biggest reason racing soft tires disgust us is because it makes GT5 seem like an arcade game. They're just TOO GRIPPY, on any car. They're unrealistic, and it's one thing if you controller players need a little extra help to drive a zonda R, or a Mclaren F1 race car, but it's just pathetic to see that some controller guys use racing softs on 400pp cars, WITH TCS and SKID RECOVERY!!!! That's just something else entirely.

It's not "tire elitism", it's a respect for the simulator, something you racing soft junkies simply don't have.

If you really like that kind of racing, no challenge at all, easy as pie, driving unrealistically fast, go play forza or grid.

I can't help but lol at this, seriously.
First of all, is there any actual substance to this 'Racing Soft are to grippy', or is it just that they have alot of grip full stop? Comparing to real life is nigh on impossible as the only cars that run slicks are race cars. Race cars generally run alot of downforce, and downforce is not correctly modeled in GT5 (maximum is ALWAYS best unless on SS RX/R7). And that doesnt include the possibility of the relative downforce levels of cars in GT5 being wrong. (Group C with as much downforce as an LMP...?)


Everything happens so much slower on low grip tyres that, although the car steps out more often it is much easier to react to it and save it. On Racing Soft, if the same thing happens, you must react much quicker or you're off.

It may just be my style, but I find on Racing Softs that it is extremely easy to counter steer a little to much and shoot off in the other direction, yet I dont belive I have ever had this problem on low grip tyres.

They require skill to drive fast. That is not something anyone should try and counter. It requires a different skill to driving on Comfort Softs yes, but that does not make them 'easy as pie'...

 

[driftinziggy]

RS for time trials if allowed...other than that RM or RH for race cars except for the occasional sport soft to avoid the need to pit ... Sport soft for street cars.. CH for drift cars... Use whatever makes you happy.... after the point is to have fun...right?

 

[Evolvedsoul]

I try to avoid them as much I could. I think they mask the car's feel.. (?)
My personal rule with tires are sports hard tires on non-racecars and racing whatever on anything that's not.

 

[Toyinster]

I did this recently, I used what he has of the tune that is listed, same car, comfort softs and made some minor changes to the default lsd and suspension settings and I've been able to get down to a 1:49 and some tenths

Where can I find the tune for the Ferrari Spa lap - I would love to have a go at this too.

 

[DDAAVVIIDD82]

Phenomenal, mikeonthebike. Absolutely phenomenal.

 

[TomBrady]

I did this recently, I used what he has of the tune that is listed, same car, comfort softs and made some minor changes to the default lsd and suspension settings and I've been able to get down to a 1:49 and some tenths

THE funny thing about this is one night my friends and I had the same car running with similar tune and we were taking turns seeing who could do the hot lap and reset the ghost on SPA. Those times were saved for spa in practice mode and we were using racing soft and the time was 1:59 and some tenths and I was able to blow that time out of the water in my first lap with the comfort softs.

I since tried the formula gran turismo with default tune and a lil more top end so it wouldn't hit rev limiter down the long strait and the FGT drives amazing on comfort softs as well.

I'm going to try to get some friends together in a room, distribute the tune to everybody and run comfort softs and have a hell of a formula race. I did stints up to 8 laps with tire wear on with both cars and they still held firmly and had very good feedback.

I'm very interested in that. I know I won't win, but I think it's a great idea and sounds like great fun.

While I agree that it takes skill to drive cars fast on RS, I believe it's a different skill than is required to drive on sports/comfort tires.

The skills required to drive ultra fast on RS is akin more to the skills required to be fast on NFS or Burnouts moreso than the skills required to be fast in a real race car or simulator.
On RS you are full throttle so much, that the game becomes more of a point/shoot/brake routine, and far less of a simulator where the goal is to simultaneously adjust all of your cars input in order to manipulate your cars mechanical grip.

On crap tires there is more involved in terms of who can get their power down quicker, instead of who can turn in at the exact perfect time. As a result, qualifying times are often much more diversified on crummy tires because there is a ton of finesse and skill required to nail a turn exit; finesse that is not necessarily required with the same car on RS.

Lastly, IMO of course, RS completely kills the handling traits of road cars and makes them all feel very similar. Weight transfer is far less important, and if you bomb into a turn too fast it's easy easier to correct the issue without loosing massive amounts of time.

Nicely put man.

I can't help but lol at this, seriously.
First of all, is there any actual substance to this 'Racing Soft are to grippy', or is it just that they have alot of grip full stop? Comparing to real life is nigh on impossible as the only cars that run slicks are race cars. Race cars generally run alot of downforce, and downforce is not correctly modeled in GT5 (maximum is ALWAYS best unless on SS RX/R7). And that doesnt include the possibility of the relative downforce levels of cars in GT5 being wrong. (Group C with as much downforce as an LMP...?)


Everything happens so much slower on low grip tyres that, although the car steps out more often it is much easier to react to it and save it. On Racing Soft, if the same thing happens, you must react much quicker or you're off.

It may just be my style, but I find on Racing Softs that it is extremely easy to counter steer a little to much and shoot off in the other direction, yet I dont belive I have ever had this problem on low grip tyres.

They require skill to drive fast. That is not something anyone should try and counter. It requires a different skill to driving on Comfort Softs yes, but that does not make them 'easy as pie'...

Well everything you're saying is true, about the downforce problems of GT5, and especially about correcting slides on RS vs CS. BUT, it doesn't mean what I said was wrong. Racing Softs just have TOO much lateral grip, and in most cases they're very unrealistic. Of course, every car is different, but I think it brings up another issue with GT5.

It seems to me that GT5 physics don't take into account the width of the tires. Is it just me that thinks that the tires seem almost identical no matter what car you're driving? Like it doesn't take into account the profile or width of those tires? I don't know. I could be wrong, but all I know is I can sense different characteristics of each car, but I can't sense the different characteristics of the same tire type, on 2 different cars. To me it seems like sports hard on an evo, feel the exact same as sports hard on a WRX. The cars still have their own characteristics that are unbelievably true to life (I would know, I've taken evo's and WRXs around Lime Rock), but it just seems to me the tires feel the exact same in GT5 when they really shouldn't.

Of course also, like you said, because of the speed you're traveling, it can be harder to correct a slide on RS, than CS BUT, that doesn't mean they're not easier to use, ESPECIALLY with controllers. And that's only with some cars. Try driving an LMP with sports hard tires, it's harder, no doubt about it but then a few cars are harder to drive with racing soft tires, LP640 comes to mind. Still doesn't mean that using racing soft tires 24/7 is excusable or realistic.

 

[TomBrady]

Erase this post!!

 

[mikeonthebike]

Where can I find the tune for the Ferrari Spa lap - I would love to have a go at this too.

On the video that I posted. you click on the video to go to youtube and watch it on youtube. Right below the video in the description for the video the guy gives his downforce tune, trans tune and something else I'm forgetting.

I'll see what else my setup is for the f2007 next time I turn it on and I'll post it up. I'm running the comfort softs on the FGT now too. It's funny, any track that Ive ran either my Ferrari formulas or fgt in practice mode on racing softs prior with the times saved in, they are now easily beat!

 

[DDAAVVIIDD82]

It's funny, any track that Ive ran either my Ferrari formulas or fgt in practice mode on racing softs prior with the times saved in, they are now easily beat!

This is to be expected. I often throw on lower grade tires with the expectation of seeing improved times when the desired tires are used. I broke in an SLR on the Nordschleife using CH prior to serious runs for the Nordschleife Lap Times thread.

 

[ssyd780]

Although I prefer to find sports soft lobbies up to 500pp (anything more becomes difficult to accelerate without TC using a DS3) you have to admit that racing soft tires make for more competitive racing.

 

[barmyclown]

As people have said the skills for Racing soft are differant than they are for the lesser grip tyres.

I do not think it take less skill to drive with them, it takes more.

Most people will be able to hit the limit of comfort softs fairly quickly, and will then from that point be able to get to their natural fastest from that point on. It is just a case of learning control, the car will slide sooner at slower speeds, because everthing is happing at slower speeds a mistake isn't going to prove costly if you overshoot by a small amount.

On racing softs the limit is that much higher, which means when it goes wrong you have less time to recover, If you miss your breaking point by 1 second your in the kitty litter etc. So to be at the limit of racing softs you have to hit it very precisly, because one slight mistake over the limit has massive consequences, hit a corner wrong at the limit on the nordshliefe so you hit a bump that you don't normally hit, and your in the armco/facing the wrong way. As the car loses grip, does something unexpected at anything up to 50 MPH quicker. Below the limit they make it easier, so if your of the opinion that a real driver doesn't use racing softs because it is easier, it most probably means your not at the absolute limit of racing softs, and driving at that limit for long periods of time is beyond your natural talant abilty.

For the short amounts of time that I spend on the absolute limit of racing softs in corners etc, I find they move around in more unexpected ways, ways that make you think your about to have a big accident, because they seem upredictable at the limit as the grip increase and fades over the bumps and the way the car reacts to those changes at high speed.

Yes driving with the lower grip tyres is fun, I like doing it in real life, my wifes old car had cheap nasty tyres on it (before I re-educated her). But you could get it to slide and move about at fairly low speed. I wouldn't even attempt that in my car on a public road, because the speeds involved in it starting to move around are so high that it is dangerous.

 

[Ducati900]

Racing softs are just like qualifying tires, make it so they only last 1-2 laps.

 

[brainzombie1212]

If you are trying to make a brutally fast car, go ahead and put the racing softs on. But if you are tuning a car up for a laugh, go for the more ordinary tyres.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Was quite sad over the weekend I tried for 30 minutes to find a 500pp room that I could have some fun in, but couldn't find one that wasn't using Racing Soft tires. Gets a bit frustrating really.

Needless to say that I can't wait for all these people that are used to running Racing Soft tires on their cars to complain about the tires that will be used during GT Academy.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Was quite sad over the weekend I tried for 30 minutes to find a 500pp room that I could have some fun in, but couldn't find one that wasn't using Racing Soft tires. Gets a bit frustrating really.

Needless to say that I can't wait for all these people that are used to running Racing Soft tires on their cars to complain about the tires that will be used during GT Academy.

Was hosting 400 on SH friday night. Low power, but fun, if you ever want to join.

 

[avens]

Was quite sad over the weekend I tried for 30 minutes to find a 500pp room that I could have some fun in, but couldn't find one that wasn't using Racing Soft tires. Gets a bit frustrating really.

Needless to say that I can't wait for all these people that are used to running Racing Soft tires on their cars to complain about the tires that will be used during GT Academy.

barmyclown is going to win it since he thinks it's more difficult to drive with RS

 

[barmyclown]

barmyclown is going to win it since he thinks it's more difficult to drive with RS

No I said they it is more difficult to get to the absolute limit of grip consistantly all the time on racing softs. So if your are finding them easier than comfort or sports tyres, you are most probably not consistantly at the tyres stable grip limit.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I disagree. For example, I believe it takes a lot more skill to get 100% out of Yellowbird on comfort or sports tires, than it does to get 100% out of it on racing tires.

Same applies to virtually every car.

I have noticed that when I have some very tough competition in a Racing Soft lounge, most of those same people can be beaten on a sunday drive when you restrict them to comfort tires. Fitting racing softs to a car, especially road legal cars, is a bit like turning Speed Recovery Force on to 300%. It very much levels out the playing field.

Like someone else said, RS tires is just like pointing and shooting. It takes a lot more effort and skill when you have to delicately balance a car's weight, power and grip, as if the steering wheel and pedals are made out of butterfly wings.

 

[barmyclown]

But how do you know your at 100%, there is no gauge to tell you, the tyres start to slip before the indicator goes red.

Tyres only have so much grip to give, so if you are at a tyres 100% grip laterrally (ie cornering) and you take away the effects of weight transfer as this increases/decreases grip depending what the weight is doing. When you try and accelerate the tyre, it will start to slip, because it has no more grip to give.

This what people see with the comfort tyres, you are turning you hit the power the tyres hit their grip limit fairly early on and the back steps out. As the yellowbird was mentioned above, extreme example because the weight is way out back of the car acting as a pendulum making it easier to break the rear tyres laterally.

But the engine back there does help accellerating, as you get a lot more weight transfer over the back wheels giving them more grip.

On racing softs if your in a corner and you smash the throttle down and all you do is accelerate, then you cannot be anywhere near 100% of the tyres grip, because the actual way they work is the same, but the grip levels are a lot higher.

As I keep saying, if it is easier then you are not driving anywhere near the limit of the tyre, and you are driving up against your natural talent level.

Some cars will struggle to get them to slip even at 100% laterral grip when they accelerate, again weight transfer adding grip and lack of torque meaning they don't get to the point of slipping.

They are a great leveller, because nearly every ones natural talent levels will be around the same, but some people practice more with comforts giving them an experience advantage. This means if you get someone who is not so quick on comforts, and someone who is quick with comforts, and put them on race softs and they are about the same speed, then their talent levels are about the same. But you get someone in the 0.01% of the population with the talent to push the racing softs to the limit consistantly, then the result will be him disapearing into the distance and everyone else wondering what happened. But everyone else will find it more difficult to do, because pushing race softs to 100% consistantly is difficult to do, needs more skill and talent.

I am not one of those Uber gods by the way, not even close. And I know that I haven't been able to get close to the limit of Race Softs consistantly.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I very much disagree about everyone having an equal talent level. Practice helps, it can help a lot, but some people are just simply better than others at racing. I could practice all day every day and still never reach number one on any of the seasonal leaderboards. On the other hand, I know people that literally do nothing but play GT5, and I am still considerably quicker than them.

But how do you know your at 100%, there is no gauge to tell you

Yes there is, they're called time trial ghosts. Although no single person will ever make a car hit 100% of it's abilities all of the time, they will however get very, very close.

As for your point about people disappearing into the distance on racing softs, again I disagree. In all my races, I have never seen a driver leave everyone in the dust when everyone is on RS tires. Sure there are quicker drives still, but the distance between an average driver an elite driver is not so big.

On the other hand, an elite driver will run circles around even an above average driver on comfort tires. More time is made up when you get the wheels to grip throughout a corner, and grip on the exit of a corner on comforts in comparison to racing tires.

Sometimes in comfort tire lobbies, if I am far enough ahead (even in a 3 - 4 lap race), I will give myself a pitstop so that the other drivers can catch back up again. I have never been able to do this in an RS tire room. As has been stated, RS allow you to just point and shoot, and they will do all the tricky work for you.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I disagree. For example, I believe it takes a lot more skill to get 100% out of Yellowbird on comfort or sports tires, than it does to get 100% out of it on racing tires.

Same applies to virtually every car.

I have noticed that when I have some very tough competition in a Racing Soft lounge, most of those same people can be beaten on a sunday drive when you restrict them to comfort tires. Fitting racing softs to a car, especially road legal cars, is a bit like turning Speed Recovery Force on to 300%. It very much levels out the playing field.

Like someone else said, RS tires is just like pointing and shooting. It takes a lot more effort and skill when you have to delicately balance a car's weight, power and grip, as if the steering wheel and pedals are made out of butterfly wings.

This is such malarkey, pardon my french. Using one of the handful of cars that is extremely difficult to drive on any tire, like the Yellowbird is an irrelevant example. It does not represent the handling characteristics of 99% of the cars in the game. It's like saying, "Yeah try driving an LMP on Comfort Hards then we'll see what skill you have" A completely unrealistic and irrelevant example.

Once again, yes, putting RS tires on cars that are 500 PP or less does make them easier to drive relative to the same car on harder tires, but I believe it's just as hard to find the limit at 600pp on RS tires as it is at 450PP on SH tires. The appropriate tire comparison is the right car on the right tires, not extreme examples of cars on tires with way too much or way too little grip. No one would take their $250,000 Yellowbird to the track and race side by side with other Yellowbirds with CS tires on unless you have both a death wish and extremely deep pockets, nor would anyone likely slap full blown racing slicks on a stock Mazda RX8 for racing.

If RS tires were so easy at 600 PP for example, why is it that 4 or 5 lap races still see gaps of 30-40 seconds from front to back most of the time? Why is it everyone isn't running in a huge freight train around the track since they are so easy to drive? Why is it there is still usually one guy running up front, 1-2 seconds per lap faster than the guy in second place and 2-5 seconds faster than most of the field? Because it takes a huge amount of skill and experience to get the most out of RS tires when they are on the appropriate, more powerful vehicles just as it takes a huge amount of skill to pilot a 450PP car on CS or SH tires around the same track.