Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Griffith500]

... its just makes a weirder noise.

I see you hatin'...
If you can't appreciate it, that's fine, but don't deny or denounce supersquirrel's enjoyment of it either. 👎

Oh, and it's VTEC

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Thirty cars in twelve months extra? Does that mean 15 groups of artists? 200 cars in six years equates to around 16-17 groups, not including the (unknown) off-time between TT and GTPSP. All this assumes an equivalent work rate for each group working on a car in series. In fact, they probably work on several in parallel, but the throughput would be the "same" for the purposes of these numbers.

In other words, I think we can expect a few more than just thirty extra. I'm guessing around 220.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Exactly. It's got to a point where all some people care about is how the cars look and the fact that they can't have their beloved cockpit view on 800 of them. As you say, they all use the same physics engine, and for me, the game is all about driving cars around stunning tracks.

I agree, this is where the meat of the game is.

If a Veyron is standard and a poll revealed that to be the most popular request for conversion, what's the problem? So you disagree and vote for something else. No point crying over it just because the majority of people disagreed with you.

Since the possibilties of DLC will be a new option with GT5, its difficult to predict what may become available in the future.
I just don't see a large scale shift from standards to premiums, but on the other hand, maybe thats part of the strategy behind this arrangement.

A poll to determine the highest percentage, on specific standard models desired for conversion is certainly one way to petition PD to provide it,
and on which cars first.
With 800 cars to choose from, it would be interesting to see what the first model to win that poll would be.
No doubt, somebody will be dissapointed in the outcome.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

For me, I think all cars will be worth it, every single one will use the same physics engine. Also explain on what do you mean by "worth it".

For me, the game is only about the premium cars. I wouldn`t buy this game if there were only standard cars around. Paying 70€ for GT4 on HD? No. Paying 70€ for some great premiums+800 standards? YES!

 

[witham]

How about not a poll? Rather open a public thread and tally which cars get most votes? It may be rather tedious especially if the voters exceed well over even 10000, but hey, quality service must be delivered.

You don't need to do a poll, they should just look at the cars being used online and the time attack modes and see which ones are used the most.

 

[Dapper]

You don't need to do a poll, they should just look at the cars being used online and the time attack modes and see which ones are used the most.

GTPlanet, and other GT websites, hold races and TT's with specific cars. Therefore the most liked cars wouldn't be the most used.

 

[Griffith500]

GTPlanet, and other GT websites, hold races and TT's with specific cars. Therefore the most liked cars wouldn't be the most used.

Except that GTPlanet and other GT websites don't represent the whole of the expected market for GT, nor the expected online demographic. It's a sensible way to gauge, if not wholly define, which cars should get "upgraded". Assuming that is the plan in the first place...

 

[Dapper]

Except that GTPlanet and other GT websites don't represent the whole of the expected market for GT, nor the expected online demographic. It's a sensible way to gauge, if not wholly define, which cars should get "upgraded". Assuming that is the plan in the first place...

Sensible way to gauge a portion? Ok.

 

[Pierced Lead]

You don't need to do a poll, they should just look at the cars being used online and the time attack modes and see which ones are used the most.

Yeah. That's an even better method.

But who knows. Maybe no one is using some car just because it is standard, and they want it as a premium with premium damage, lights, textures, cockpit, and sound

 

[Dapper]

If the tuned Clio wasn't premium it would be first on the list then.
And once GT5 is released and the public races are set forth, there will be cars that win all the time and are used more just because they win, and nothing to do with how much people like it (like the tuned Clio).

 

[Griffith500]

If the tuned Clio wasn't premium it would be first on the list then.
And once GT5 is released and the public races are set forth, there will be cars that win all the time and are used more just because they win, and nothing to do with how much people like it (like the tuned Clio).

I personally like the Tuned Clio, and use it more offline than on.

And yes, it is a sensible way to gauge the portion of players who race online, or submit time-trial times. What else is there? I'm not going to sit and try to impotently vote for something when all the "tasteless" people vote for the same type of car over and over again.

Maybe we should just leave it up to PD?

 

[Dapper]

What else is there?

I'll leave that to you.

Maybe we should just leave it up to PD?

But look at the premiums we have now. A lot of people moan about all the Cappuccino's and cars like that, and they probably wouldn't want them premiums at all. The range of cars offered has worked so far --at PD's discretion-- so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Griffith500]

I'll leave that to you.

So you're saying there is no other way, as far as you're concerned?
I think it's best to leave it to PD.

But look at the premiums we have now. A lot of people moan about all the Cappuccino's and cars like that, and they probably wouldn't want them premiums at all.

I don't moan about them, and I do want them as they are - there are a good number of others here that would agree. The selection of Premium cars so far strikes a nice balance across the spectrum of interesting cars in the world, past and present. This is a continuation of the theme started with GT2, and bolstered more recently by GT4.

 

[Dapper]

I think it's best to leave it to PD.

The selection of Premium cars so far strikes a nice balance across the spectrum of interesting cars in the world, past and present. This is a continuation of the theme started with GT2, and bolstered more recently by GT4.

I agree completely with your sentiments Now, if we add in another variable, the subjective human, that balance will change.

 

[analog]

Maybe we should just leave it up to PD?

I'm not a fan of public polling or voting which cars should be included as Premium as the outcome might be rather predictable or even frustrate people as the cars they wish to include are voted out by the vast majority.
I'm betting many cars and brands included in previous GT-games didn't even appear on the radar before being included in GT for the most part of the GT buying demographic and aren't even used or appreciated that much apart from a car nerd like me for example.
I guess it's the choice between satifying demand for the largest group ( which is democratically fair and proper perhaps and makes sense from a customer satisfaction point of view to a company like PD ) or have the selection process safe behind close doors without anyone knowing the reasons why they picked a certain car like they do know.
If they listened beforehand we might not have gotten a car like the Jaguar XJ13 for example purely because many didn't know it existed.
And for the cars already existing as Standard, we all have our favourites, and I guess the selection process will end in an all out war....
Best to listen perhaps but not tell us they did, or hopefully just being stubborn and doing it the way they want ( if they do the first thing proper it might even appear like the last one ).
Or even better, PD could just contact me and I'll happily supply them with a list of cars which will be the best for everyone as I will be purely objective and in no way force my personal preference onto others.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

To PD's benefit, they don't really have 800 cars to model; there's probably at least 2 dozen FD RX-7's, and while there was the facelift in '98, the basic shape of the car has stayed similar from '91 to '02. It'd just be some detail changes like foglights, rims, badges, and the afore-mentioned facelift. The R32, R33, and R34 generations could all be done in large swathes too. We've seen a Miata modeled to PS3 standards with GTHD, right? There's the swarms of NA Miatas in GT4 taken care of.

A poll could always be lead in a direction by PD. They could give us a few manufacturers, and tell us to vote for 10 specific cars each. Top 20 or so get modeled. They could theme a poll; German makes, 60's cars, front-drivers... really, it'd make things interesting. What T10 did with the Jalopnik pack was pretty cool (even if it still hasn't been released), modify that setup a bit to apply to Standards. And as always, PD does get the final, over-ruling say over a poll's final outcome. It's to get the public's opinion in one easily accessible spot, that's all.

 

[analog]

Well they could at least first model one Premium car of each brand included, that would already create a huge variety and I agree with SlipZtrEm that a lot of the "duplicates" would only take a few detail changes to include perhaps.
The classic and iconic ( for whatever reason ) cars which should remain in future GT-games could also be first to be modelled as it leaves time to model future releases and new additions to the serie.
Ofcourse what should remain is debatable in itself but I guess the choice between modelling a Jaguar E-type or the previous generation Citroën C5 shouldn't have to be that difficult ( biased no doubt, and my apologies to the Citroën C5 owners club if existing ).

 

[SlipZtrEm]

...the Citroën C5 owners club if existing.

Impossible!

Though really, I do see your point, and it could extend to basically all of the Citroen's that were "modern" during GT4. The company was on the cusp of building the much more interesting cars they currently use, but even the cars in the game weren't the best choices from that time; the Xsara used the lame VTR instead of VTS, the C3 really does look like a snail, and the Xantia and C5? Heaping bowls of Meh. I really like modern Citroens and wish they were available here, but GT4's (and subsequently, GT5's Standard) lineup left much to be desired from the road car division. I'm sure there are fans, but there's countless other cars that are Standard that are more well-liked.

Having the majority vote will end up in disappointment, sure (if the Escudo is Standard, you can bet tons of the kiddies will vote in force), but it accomplishes it's goal of getting the public's opinion, and like it or not, places like this don't represent the majority. But hey, we can always hope that the poll would be set up poorly, and allow multiple votes from the same person/location; surely the casual gamers won't bother with something so tailor-made for the obsessives .

 

[Sohvakettu]

But if it was Citroën DS and E-Type... Then the choice would be truly clear!

 

[PirateThom]

If only the Celica GT-Four could be premium!

 

[analog]

But if it was Citroën DS and E-Type... Then the choice would be truly clear!

Hope you're joking, the DS is probably even more significant and iconic than the E-type regardless which you prefer.
Always wondered why GT didn't include the DS ( or the SM ), I remember Enthusia did.
I love the DS and the E-type, you might not like the DS but this car is a legendary milestone in car history whether you like the styling or not ( I love the styling ), which can never be said of the previous gen C5.

 

[VXR]

SLipZtrEm, you raise a good point about the standards that goes beyond my thinking about the age of the cars, but that a lot of them were quite tedious models within their range.

I'm a Vauxhall fan for example, so I find it perplexing that the Corsa is a 1.4 Comfort [1.8 SRI would be better] and the Vectra is a 3.2 Elite 4-door and not a 3.2 GSI 5-door, which had sportier suspension. Then with the March, it's a 1.2 IIRC and not the 1.4(?) The VW line-up with a standard Lupo, a Citroen C3, the basic Ka instead of the SportKa and more I can't think of.

With a bit of quality control, a fair bit of the 800 could have been easily culled and largely gone un-missed, but again, it seems like Sony needed numbers to keep the marketing bods happy.

 

[Pierced Lead]

To PD's benefit, they don't really have 800 cars to model; there's probably at least 2 dozen FD RX-7's, and while there was the facelift in '98, the basic shape of the car has stayed similar from '91 to '02. It'd just be some detail changes like foglights, rims, badges, and the afore-mentioned facelift. The R32, R33, and R34 generations could all be done in large swathes too. We've seen a Miata modeled to PS3 standards with GTHD, right? There's the swarms of NA Miatas in GT4 taken care of.

A poll could always be lead in a direction by PD. They could give us a few manufacturers, and tell us to vote for 10 specific cars each. Top 20 or so get modeled. They could theme a poll; German makes, 60's cars, front-drivers... really, it'd make things interesting. What T10 did with the Jalopnik pack was pretty cool (even if it still hasn't been released), modify that setup a bit to apply to Standards. And as always, PD does get the final, over-ruling say over a poll's final outcome. It's to get the public's opinion in one easily accessible spot, that's all.

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

Miata Pack, Skyline Pack, 3000GT Pack, it sounds pretty neat, like a car dealer getting some new arrivals in bulk

 

[WesWelker83]

Seriously? You're saying to us we should be happy and thankful with the 200 cars we're getting to experience the way we expected them to play ( cockpit view ) and not complain as it should be good enough as it is, whilst you will have 1000+ cars at your disposal in the way you expected them to play ( bumper or hood cam )?
Whatever the reason why you may prefer a certain view and dislike another, that's completely irrelevant in this debate purely for the fact this isn't about choice but about the limitation of choice.
Fine to know it doesn't concern you and the reasons why it doesn't concern you but that's hardly going to convince those who have other reasons why they like cockpit view now does it?
And why pay respect to a game developer? It's hardly charity now is it? I will pay them with money, the respect they will have to earn with what I'll get in return.

Although I do have to say the analogy used by WesWelker83 is far too extreme in this context.

extreme yes but the point is still clear. things that don't effect you directly can effect something that you do care about. that's what's happening here yet people are so busy focusing on their own preferences that they critisize people for being upset & in disagreement with what PD has done. Like I said, I find it to be by far the most useless view(bumper cam) , but if GT5 was going to only have 20% of the cars be able to use that view(bumper cam) , I would either be agreement with those upset or I wouldn't say anything, putting my preferences aside. no one can say this doesn't effect the game & the series negatively, you can argue whether the effect is minor or major but you can't say this is a good thing

 

[analog]

extreme yes but the point is still clear. things that don't effect you directly can effect something that you do care about. that's what's happening here yet people are so busy focusing on their own preferences that they critisize people for being upset & in disagreement with what PD has done. Like I said, I find it to be by far the most useless view(bumper cam) , but if GT5 was going to only have 20% of the cars be able to use that view(bumper cam) , I would either be agreement with those upset or I wouldn't say anything, putting my preferences aside. no one can say this doesn't effect the game & the series negatively, you can argue whether the effect is minor or major but you can't say this is a good thing

Don't get me wrong, the argument you tried to get across is shared by me as well, it was the example you used to compare this situation to which was completely out of context and completely different in scope and rather inappropriate and extreme.
If you use the example of losing a relative or any human suffering reference to describe a minor issue in the grand scheme of things ( an element of a videogame ) you will not only lose credibility but it won't help to get the argument across either and those who you wish to persuade will only discard it as a pointless statement not to be taken seriously.

 

[Killinator]

One thing that really, really bugs me is the headlights for standards and premiums,
Why was it not possible to have standards with high and low beam lights, given what PD have achieved would this minor inclusion have been so difficult to pull off?

 

[stig's helmet]

One thing that really, really bugs me is the headlights for standards and premiums,
Why was it not possible to have standards with high and low beam lights, given what PD have achieved would this minor inclusion have been so difficult to pull off?

not too fussed about the headlights myself

 

[Killinator]

not too fussed about the headlights myself

I wouldnt really except it would be nice to be able to switch and also suggests we won't be able to flash lights to cars ahead to move over,
Which is dissapointing, for something so basic.

 

[TouringDevotee]

Voting for cars ... I guess that I could see something of an instant-runoff style, just to get something that a greater majority would enjoy.

It all sounds a bit odd though.

 

[Devedander]

Voting for cars ... I guess that I could see something of an instant-runoff style, just to get something that a greater majority would enjoy.

It all sounds a bit odd though.

This is all starting to become a fans fantasy rather than a legitimate possible game plan...

 

[fcautoX]

So my appologies if this has already been discussed, but does anyone know if the standard cars will share the ame sounds from gt4?