Z06 motor NOT covered by warranty, if..

[kingcars]

Pot + Kettle = black.. 💡

That makes no sense. Pot plus kettle? ...

And no, I don't spend my days lookin up GTR problem threads if that's what youre insinuating.

 

[Joey D]

I would honestly think more of the issue if it wasn't brought up by Leonidae.

Probably.

I still stand by my statement though, all manufactures will void your warranty if you blow your car up at a track. The same way insurance companies won't cover your vehicle if it's destroyed at a track. This guy I know who races locally wrecked his WRX at the local track, the insurance wouldn't cover any of it and there was no way to get around it because there were videos and photos floating around the net.

 

[Duke]

Buy foreign or buy used, but don't buy their bull ****!

So instead I should buy a brand new GT-R, use the factory-programmed launch control software and... void my warranty as well?

Or talk to the WRX/STi owners - who received an SCCA membership free with their car - how well warranty claims worked out when Subaru found out the car had been autocrossed. In fact, Subaru trolled internet message boards for autocross results and proactively voided the warranties of the owners involved.

Talk about bullpuckey! It's got nothing to do with US vs. foreign.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Taking a car on track on the other hand is not abusive behaviour, certainly not for a Corvette which is designed to have high performance. It's more than capable of being taken on track and as long as the driver isn't drifting it all day or doing flat-shifts, then I don't see how track driving could be considered abusive enough to void the car's warranty.

He still drove it hard enough to blow the engine though which isn't exactly the easiest thing to do.

Not much of a surprise, really. Who remembers the hoopla from a few years ago when Mitsubishi started looking for Evo owners out on trackdays to void their warranties?

Really? Bugger...

 

[Leonidae]

I would honestly think more of the issue if it wasn't brought up by Leonidae.

So, the fact that Nissan enthusiast brought out this matter makes it suspicious? I didn't think that you're that ignorant. Anyway, in a way this is very ironic.. and that's why I brought this out. It evens up the field. Nissan has had few faulty gearboxes that represent technology that Nissan hasn't used before, GM has few blown up SBC LS-series engines, which are widely known as reliable performance engines.. So, no peas here. If you and few others think that this is flamebaiting, it is not. It is just a fact that nobody is perfect. Not me, not you, not GM, not Nissan. I'm not that petty that I'd start flamewar over something like this. Anyway, You have privilege to your opinion, as I have privilege for mine. I agree to disagree, and wish you merry Christmas.

 

[1X83Z]

I still stand by my statement though, all manufactures will void your warranty if you blow your car up at a track.

Not LOTUS!!!! We had that happen this summer -- manufacturer happily paid the claim. Lotus LIKES when you use them the way they were meant to -- Chevrolet is a sad company in need of total restructuring.

Talk about bullpuckey! It's got nothing to do with US vs. foreign.

I know

I just said that because I wanted to incite people like you.

 

[Tornado]

So, the fact that Nissan enthusiast brought out this matter makes it suspicious?

No. It is the fact that the one who brought up a Corvette defect is the same Nissan enthusiast who, when someone joked about the transmission in the GT-R being "Awesome," posted this in response:

In case you have not been visiting Corvetteforums, there have been multiple threads about Z06 surrendering under abuse.. blown diffs, failed rocker arms due oil starvation, even unwanted targa conversions resulting from normal driving.. I guess Z06 isn't any better than GT-R.

The fact that you clearly jumped to drag the Corvette through the mud at the slightest hint of exaggeration towards the GT-R is what makes it a big deal when you post something that makes the Corvette look bad.
Quite frankly, this isn't even newsworthy. Ooh, Chevrolet won't cover your damages to your Corvette if they are the result of track driving hoonery like literally every other car manufacturer. Stop the freaking presses! You yourself complained that the GT-R transmission fiasco was being blown out of proportion here and here; but any defect of the Corvette? Well, that's fair game. Lets just exaggerate that as much as possible.
lol, Chevy sux like teh GT-R now.

Not LOTUS!!!! We had that happen this summer -- manufacturer happily paid the claim. Lotus LIKES when you use them the way they were meant to

That is only because it would help keep it from looking bad when the parts started catching on fire.
"Hey, the door fell off!"
"No big deal. It had to be because he was at a track."

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

It's more than capable of being taken on track and as long as the driver isn't drifting it all day or doing flat-shifts, then I don't see how track driving could be considered abusive enough to void the car's warranty.

But how will they know the driver wasn't doing just that?

 

[Dave A]

That makes no sense. Pot plus kettle? ...

And no, I don't spend my days lookin up GTR problem threads if that's what youre insinuating.

Pot + Kettle = black is a phrase people use to identify when someone is being hypocritical, as in it is hypocritical to defend Nissans policy for the GT-R and then hammer Cheverolets over this and vice versa, which is what some members did. I don't think this is directed at you personally but more towards certain members who are well known Corvette fans that were having a go at Nissan and the GT-R for a similar reason.

I understand why Leonaide has made this thead, as a kind of ying to the GT-R bashing yang (I feel like Yoda). I'm sure he'd be happy to say this is no big deal and is very representative of what other car companies offer. But swings go both ways, will the people that want that or more specifically the people that want that that were bashing the GT-R recently be willing to do the same on that matter. This thread wouldn't be here if so many members hadn't jumped on the GT-R situation like rabbid dogs and instead took a backwards step, looked at the facts and then been able to quite clearly tell that much like this situation, it wasn't actually odd or bad for Nissan to void a warranty under the conditions that they stated.

 

[Leonidae]

^ Finally a voice of reason!👍

 

[Jim Prower]

I'm still surprised by the number of people who don't want to take responsibility for driving their cars hard.

 

[homeforsummer]

He still drove it hard enough to blow the engine though which isn't exactly the easiest thing to do.

Then it's completely fair to void the warranty. But for the large majority of owners who take their cars on track but don't destroy drivetrain parts, it's a bit harsh their warranty being affected.

Not LOTUS!!!! We had that happen this summer -- manufacturer happily paid the claim. Lotus LIKES when you use them the way they were meant to -- Chevrolet is a sad company in need of total restructuring.

You're right, I found a copy of Lotus' warranty statement a while back (though the link escapes me - it's probably in the GT-R transmission problems thread) which said they understand that many owners would take their cars on track, but they'd only refuse to cover if the car was actually used in some form of timed competition.

But how will they know the driver wasn't doing just that?

If the car doesn't blow up, chances are it isn't being abused. As I've already said, it's fair enough if the car in the OP wasn't covered as you'd have to try pretty hard to damage it, but having a clause in the warranty stating that any owner who tracks their car isn't covered isn't particularly fair, and doesn't show much faith in their performance car's performance abilities.

I'm still surprised by the number of people who don't want to take responsibility for driving their cars hard.

A sports car should be able to stand up to hard driving. It shouldn't have to stand up to abuse. This is the distinction I'm trying to make.

If I had say, a Civic Type R, and took it on track for a trackday, drove it hard but smoothly (not whacking curbs, not flat-shifting, and taking breaks every few laps to let the car cool a little) I'd be most dis-chuffed if a part broke a couple of thousand miles down the line and Honda refused to pay just because I'd taken it on track. Especially seeing as quite a few Type Rs get treated worse on the roads.

If on the other hand I'd taken my car on track and done all of the above (bounced it off curbs, flat-shifted, loads of late braking, setting qualifying laps) and it broke, I'd fully expect Honda to tell me to sod off, as I would have subjected the car to undue punishment and more than it was designed for.

 

[niky]

Like I said back on page one, track use is a warranty marker. It's unfair, yes, to those of us who do the occassional track-day... I'm much more careful with my brakes, clutch and engine on track than some guys are on the street... but whether we like to admit it or not, track use is hard on cars... so it's a perfectly legitimate marker for warranty voiding.

Said warranty doesn't matter much to a dedicated enthusiast, though... one who's probably voided it already by fitting an aftermarket suspension, exhaust, camshafts and brakes... ...I couldn't wait for the warranty to expire on the car. In fact, I gave up waiting about 20,000 miles early and went ahead and did it.

 

[Pupik]

It's not just the Z06, I'm pretty sure with just about every car if you blow something up on a track it isn't covered.

Exactly: Mitsubishi went as far as to discover how many Evo owners in the US were "abusing" their cars: Track use does not equal day-to-day driving. There's a reason it's the 24-hours of Le Mans, and not the 365-days of Le Mans. Cars can only handle so much abuse stemming from hard driving.

Read the manual; every car manufacturer has it in print. What is more shocking is that people do not believe it or think they can circumvent it with magic. One track day will not kill your car, two days will not either (concrete walls not withstanding). But using it repeatedly in a driving school program is going to kill the car, just as it is excessive towards a manufacturer's warranty to use it as a hire car, a taxi, a rental, as a work truck, towing a cruise ship, or as an artificial reef.

Even Lotus or Ferrari would find a way to get out of paying for track use, if it were to cost them dearly. They would probably sent in an area representative before authorizing a $10,000+ claim (Audi and Lexus had a $5000 limit, unless it was a "known" issue like a transmission failure).

 

[buickgnx88]

just as it is excessive towards a manufacturer's warranty to use it as...an artificial reef.

If you're doing that with the car, I'm sure you wouldn't want to be driving it!

 

[Azuremen]

People still don't get that absolutely punishing the car voids the warranty? Kind of like not changing the oil properly, or not using the correct coolant voids the warranty?

Subaru was nasty about the SCCA membership thing, though. Basically auto voiding the warranty if you used the free membership they gave you.

Still, insurance policies won't cover you at a track unless you take out special coverage. And so on.

 

[showoff3civic]

from the sounds of his post he was driving it hard and the engine was starved of oil

his post:
I understand that they are changing the dry sump to a larger capacity tank for the 09's

if this was the case sounds like GM knows there is a problem and changing it for 2009 if thats the case they should give the guy an engine track or not

 

[Joey D]

fif this was the case sounds like GM knows there is a problem and changing it for 2009 if thats the case they should give the guy an engine track or not

No they shouldn't, he was at a track and the warranty book GM gives you with they car explains that tracking your vehicle is a instant warranty void. They will actively look too. There are cases of people on Saturn Ion Redline forums that have had their warranty voided because the Saturn dealer saw them either tracking their car or modifying the engine extensively.

If you break the agreement then your warranty should not be covered, this isn't a hard concept to grasp.

 

[showoff3civic]

Then it's completely fair to void the warranty. But for the large majority of owners who take their cars on track but don't destroy drivetrain parts, it's a bit harsh their warranty being affected.



You're right, I found a copy of Lotus' warranty statement a while back (though the link escapes me - it's probably in the GT-R transmission problems thread) which said they understand that many owners would take their cars on track, but they'd only refuse to cover if the car was actually used in some form of timed competition.



If the car doesn't blow up, chances are it isn't being abused. As I've already said, it's fair enough if the car in the OP wasn't covered as you'd have to try pretty hard to damage it, but having a clause in the warranty stating that any owner who tracks their car isn't covered isn't particularly fair, and doesn't show much faith in their performance car's performance abilities.



A sports car should be able to stand up to hard driving. It shouldn't have to stand up to abuse. This is the distinction I'm trying to make.

If I had say, a Civic Type R, and took it on track for a trackday, drove it hard but smoothly (not whacking curbs, not flat-shifting, and taking breaks every few laps to let the car cool a little) I'd be most dis-chuffed if a part broke a couple of thousand miles down the line and Honda refused to pay just because I'd taken it on track. Especially seeing as quite a few Type Rs get treated worse on the roads.

If on the other hand I'd taken my car on track and done all of the above (bounced it off curbs, flat-shifted, loads of late braking, setting qualifying laps) and it broke, I'd fully expect Honda to tell me to sod off, as I would have subjected the car to undue punishment and more than it was designed for.

civic type ARRRRE would not have broke My ep3 see's the track once a week my stock motor went to 60k miles when my best friend misshifted to second gear making the timing chain jump 3 teeth and bending 2 exhaust and 2 intake valves. Now i have a modded k20a2 all motor 225 whp and a redline of 8750 that gets happily revved there everyday that i drive it. Honda offered to even replace the engine after it was toast but i didnt want 160 hp back 👍

 

[showoff3civic]

No they shouldn't, he was at a track and the warranty book GM gives you with they car explains that tracking your vehicle is a instant warranty void. They will actively look too. There are cases of people on Saturn Ion Redline forums that have had their warranty voided because the Saturn dealer saw them either tracking their car or modifying the engine extensively.

If you break the agreement then your warranty should not be covered, this isn't a hard concept to grasp.

If its a flaw in there system its not the customers fault

 

[Azuremen]

If its a flaw in there system its not the customers fault

No, it isn't. But the customer agrees to the terms of the contact prior to signing. Further, oil starvation at a track is fairly beyond normal driving requirements. On top of that, he could have been using slicks, incorrect weight of oil for the situation, and so on.

 

[showoff3civic]

No, it isn't. But the customer agrees to the terms of the contact prior to signing. Further, oil starvation at a track is fairly beyond normal driving requirements. On top of that, he could have been using slicks, incorrect weight of oil for the situation, and so on.

everything was stock have you read the tread? common problem with the Z06 is oil starvation causing engine failure (gm failure). Most cars get driven harder on the street then on the track unless the person does not know how to drive, but if his engine would have went because he was driving it hard on the street it would have been ok? If it was a driver error misshift or something along those lines it is not the manufactures fault for a system that does not perform to there spec. Maybe they should put a relistic redline on it somewhere around 3,000 rpms i bet the engine would not starve for oil there and you can drive how ever you choose then.

With a Dry sump system there should not be that issue.

 

[kingcars]

Even if he WASN'T driving hard, how is the manufacturer supposed to know? Unfortunately, these days, it's very unlikely for people to just take your word for it.

 

[Joey D]

Most cars get driven harder on the street then on the track unless the person does not know how to drive,

Because everyone I know tries to set the fastest possible time while driving to work, school, the store, etc. I'm really curious why you think day to day driving is more abusive then track driving?

Also for the record Pupik already explained this:

Exactly: Mitsubishi went as far as to discover how many Evo owners in the US were "abusing" their cars: Track use does not equal day-to-day driving. There's a reason it's the 24-hours of Le Mans, and not the 365-days of Le Mans. Cars can only handle so much abuse stemming from hard driving.

Read the manual; every car manufacturer has it in print. What is more shocking is that people do not believe it or think they can circumvent it with magic. One track day will not kill your car, two days will not either (concrete walls not withstanding). But using it repeatedly in a driving school program is going to kill the car, just as it is excessive towards a manufacturer's warranty to use it as a hire car, a taxi, a rental, as a work truck, towing a cruise ship, or as an artificial reef.

Even Lotus or Ferrari would find a way to get out of paying for track use, if it were to cost them dearly. They would probably sent in an area representative before authorizing a $10,000+ claim (Audi and Lexus had a $5000 limit, unless it was a "known" issue like a transmission failure).

 

[showoff3civic]

Because everyone I know tries to set the fastest possible time while driving to work, school, the store, etc. I'm really curious why you think day to day driving is more abusive then track driving?

Also for the record Pupik already explained this:

because most people that drive to and from work take off from stop light full throttle and slam on the brakes when coming to a stop. I drive an old toyota 4 runner for the winter its by far the slowest most boring thing i have ever driven but the amount of people that cut me off and floor it next to me is insane. Its really not good for a motor to be run hard when the engine is cold and most people do not drive long enough to let the engine fully warm up (30 min. running time). I do not agree that engines cannot be built to run high power, lots of rpms and also last. I built a 250 whp k20a2 for a buddies RSX and the motor sees 9k daily every single day of its life and it has over 100k miles on it. A car that cost 70-80k i would expect that they would know that the sump tank is to small and cannot lubricate all the bearings.

 

[Azuremen]

everything was stock have you read the tread? common problem with the Z06 is oil starvation causing engine failure (gm failure). Most cars get driven harder on the street then on the track unless the person does not know how to drive, but if his engine would have went because he was driving it hard on the street it would have been ok? If it was a driver error misshift or something along those lines it is not the manufactures fault for a system that does not perform to there spec. Maybe they should put a relistic redline on it somewhere around 3,000 rpms i bet the engine would not starve for oil there and you can drive how ever you choose then.

With a Dry sump system there should not be that issue.

O'rly?

Edit: Just saw above post. Just wow...

 

[Joey D]

because most people that drive to and from work take off from stop light full throttle and slam on the brakes when coming to a stop. I drive an old toyota 4 runner for the winter its by far the slowest most boring thing i have ever driven but the amount of people that cut me off and floor it next to me is insane. Its really not good for a motor to be run hard when the engine is cold and most people do not drive long enough to let the engine fully warm up (30 min. running time). I do not agree that engines cannot be built to run high power, lots of rpms and also last. I built a 250 whp k20a2 for a buddies RSX and the motor sees 9k daily every single day of its life and it has over 100k miles on it. A car that cost 70-80k i would expect that they would know that the sump tank is to small and cannot lubricate all the bearings.

I live in Michigan, where drivers are regarded as some of the most insane in the entire country, and I probably see 5-10% of the people doing hard starts and stops on a normal drive.

I'll stand by my statement though, regular, street driving is no where near as abusive as track driving. It would be unsafe and not to mention illegal to drive the way one would on a track on a public road. Not saying people don't do it, I'm just saying it isn't the norm.

 

[Azuremen]

I live in Michigan, where drivers are regarded as some of the most insane in the entire country, and I probably see 5-10% of the people doing hard starts and stops on a normal drive.

I'll stand by my statement though, regular, street driving is no where near as abusive as track driving. It would be unsafe and not to mention illegal to drive the way one would on a track on a public road. Not saying people don't do it, I'm just saying it isn't the norm.

It is okay, Joey. It isn't his fault he doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

[showoff3civic]

Yes i do not know what I am talking about, while we are at it i don't know anything about cars or internal combustion engines either.

I will let you proceed to think that your view is the only one out there.

 

[Joey D]

But you have still failed to show us any proof that taking a car to the track is less abusive then driving to and from work, school, the store, etc. Ask anyone who tracks their car where they driver harder on public roads or on the track, I bet 99% of them say the track. Prove it to me and I'll believe what you are saying, but in the mean time I just honestly don't think you understand the abuse your car goes through on a track.

Let me ask you this, have you ever tracked a car before?