Zeta News 2.0: New VF Commodore and Chevrolet SS

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Meh, so long as GM don't try to pass it off as the hardcore performance model. There should at least be a GT3-type model. Call it Z/28.
 
I don't think it would be "performance" like how Lexus tries to pass theirs off. My guess is that it would just steal the hybrid system from the VUE Two-Mode (ie DIG 3.6L V6 with twin 55-kW electric motors), not the same two-mode system from the Tahoe Hybrid. But, alas, I could be wrong...

Personally speaking, I'd find it to be much "cooler" if GM decided to build an oil-burner Camaro with that new 4.5L diesel V8. At least in that form there would be some serious go-power when needed, and of course, some really good fuel-sipping capability anywhere else. But, alas, we aren't due to receive that engine until the time the Camaro debuts, and furthermore, its only going into the trucks/SUVs first.

We'll see, its not the end of the world. I'm interested to see what they do to go up against that EcoBoost Mustang that undoubtedly is coming down the pipe...
 
Hmmm, a high op V-6 with a Dual Mode hybrid would be pretty sweet.

5.3 DoD V-8 with Dual Mode would be even better, and would be the choice I'd opt for.

Rumble, snort, grunt, go... and drive past the gas station. :D
 
Video of the Denali XT

 
What the Brits think of it:

Top Gear
As American as shooting your neighbour or making a world series that only your country can enter, the pick-up truck is an icon of the American way.

But it's taken some Aussies based down under at GM's Holden Division - who are much more accustomed to an Oz-style Ute - to develop the much-loved pick-up into the form of the Dinali XT hybrid that you see here.

In the continuing attempt by US manufacturers to find the pick-up a way forward into the future, you'll find an electric motor and a direct injection 4.9-litre V8 engine under this hood, and running on bio-ethanol, it's slated to return 32mpg from its 326bhp.

Aussie designer Warrick Leach has spouted reams of quotes regarding what he's done and why he's done it, so to save you the pain, we've paraphrased him here:

"Awww maaaate, I really wanted to do a flammin' Yank truck that looked super awesome in a bogan Ute style but that had the performance and handling of a sports car only with room to put your chully bun of beer in the back. The Sheilas will love it, mate.'

Rappers and sportsman are no doubt already eager to sign up, even though the Dinali XT is only currently scheduled to go no further than the Chicago motor show next week, as there are no plans for production.

Yet.

We know they secretly love it. Everyone does. They all wish they could drive it...

Which reminds me: How much longer must I wait to get the G8 ST?
 
My issue of MOTOR arrived today with a yellow HSV GTS-R gracing the cover. Oh it also may have the Supercharged LS9 engine from the ZR1 in it. Whatever it is, it will be appearing at the Melbourne Motor Show next month.

I will scan the images within the next 24 hours, but in the mean time here is a picture of the previous HSV GTS-R, so just imagine of a Zeta Version of this.

hsv_vs_gt_r_1.jpg


Complete in bright yellow paint, black wheels and carbon fiber wings.
 
My issue of MOTOR arrived today with a yellow HSV GTS-R gracing the cover. Oh it also may have the Supercharged LS9 engine from the ZR1 in it. Whatever it is, it will be appearing at the Melbourne Motor Show next month.



Nice idea but I doubt it will happen, maybe LS7 but I doubt LS9.
 
It could get the LSA from the Cadillac CTS-V, essentially the same LS9 with a few minor changes, and a drop in about 70 BHP. In that form, it can be matched up with the 6L80E automatic, which seems to make far more sense in the Commodore/G8 anyway...
 
It isn't the true sporting option, but in automatic-crazy America, its about one of the best decisions Cadillac could have made with the LSA in the CTS-V. It opens up a whole 'nother segment...
 
Two things:



Click on the photo to check out the rest of the Detroit Rock City (with snow) spy shots!

===

In other news, like I said, the Trans Am was never going to happen:

Since Buick, Pontiac and GMC dealers are in the process of consolidating their showrooms, many were likely hoping for a halo product that could draw customers into the showroom. Hey, wouldn't a version of the upcoming Chevy Camaro badged as a Pontiac Trans Am revival do the trick? Maybe, but at the NADA conference this week, GM told these dealers that a Pontiac Trans Am is not going to happen. Blame the new, more stringent federal fuel economy regulations for killing off this cool idea. In fact, the new regs also mean that the automaker will be scaling back on transforming Pontiac into a rear-wheel-drive performance division. Though GM assured dealers that Pontiac will remain a car-only brand, the assurance that a debacle like the Aztec won't happen a second time is little comfort to those who were hoping Pontiac would once again be the brand that builds excitement. And who says performance has to be totally sacrificed for fuel economy? New powertrains are being developed that make the most of the internal combustion engine's efficiency, and a twin-turbo, direct-inject four-cylinder can make gobs of power while being much more efficient than an equally powerful V6 or even V8.

GM did inform Buick, Pontiac and GMC dealers that they would be getting 12 new or special-edition vehicles over the next 20 months. A special-edition GMC Sierra pickup called Pro Grade was mentioned, for instance. Still, the quashing of any hope for a new Trans Am means that the number of vehicles slated to share the Camaro's rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform in the U.S. is dwindling. Only the Pontiac G8 and G8 ST car-based truck are confirmed, with Zeta-based rear-wheel-drive sedans for Buick and Chevy still up in the air. This means that without the ability to spread out costs across a number of new vehicles, the price of producing these vehicles will likely be high and passed on to the performance-minded consumer.

Too bad, because I know the kids wanted 'em. Would have been pointless, really. People complain about GM badge-engineering all of the rest of the cars, this is no different. You can't have it both ways...
 
Would have been pointless, really. People complain about GM badge-engineering all of the rest of the cars, this is no different. You can't have it both ways...
The Trans Am/Camaro twins were a far different story than practically every other GM car ever made, and I (and JCE) have already explained why.
Furthermore, you can't use that "would have been pointless" argument anyways, because I do believe GM is still being hilariously retarded when it comes to rebadges. You want pointless? What about the VUE? Or the Astra? The Sky? At least the Camaro/Firebird appealed to different groups and didn't steal each others' sales.
 
Which is all very true, but I still don't understand why people are so "shocked" that it was never going to happen in the first place. I never saw it as a feasible model in the Pontiac lineup, I don't think many did at GM in the first place. Sure, the ultimate demise of the Monaro/GTO program should have made it that much easier for the Firebird to happen, but of course, the EPA had to come in and ruin things too.

I just don't think it would have "fit" in the lineups at the BPG dealers all that well, particularly if there is a Camaro available next door for the same price that does the same exact thing. Maybe they'll do something with it later on, I dunno, but I didn't find it to be much of a surprise that it won't happen...
 
I never thought it was going to happen (pipe dreams don't really count), I'm just saying that if they wanted to do it they could have easily done so. And it would have sold.
 
I guess you could contact someone to build you a bodykit.
 
They were thinking of building a Firebird?

That's something that I would have said "oh, that makes sense" to when it hit dealers but something I wouldn't have thought of if I didn't hear anything about. Somehow I'm under the impression that a Firebird and the lower Camaros might have stolen sales from each other.
 
The Trans Am/Camaro twins were a far different story than practically every other GM car ever made, and I (and JCE) have already explained why.
Furthermore, you can't use that "would have been pointless" argument anyways, because I do believe GM is still being hilariously retarded when it comes to rebadges. You want pointless? What about the VUE? Or the Astra? The Sky? At least the Camaro/Firebird appealed to different groups and didn't steal each others' sales.

+1 "air rep". I couldn't of said it better myself. I am truely sad if this is the definate end to the Firebird/Trans-Am. :( The Firebid/Trans-Am has always been better than its Camaro sister (minus my 1990 model Camaro :p)--from day one to the last day.

I don't think Americans are realizing it but this is the late 1970's all over again. The US Goverment in all its VAST (:lol:) wisdom is once again killing the fun by legislating musclecars WE THE BUYING PUBLIC WANT out of your hands. And this is also the US automaker's faults for not spending the MONEY for R&D to develop alternatives to lazy low-revving V8's--and giving the people the CHOICE. If you had to choose between a rubbish-in-everyway 4/6cyl or a V8 that made good noises and tiremarks...honestly which would you choose? The GNX/T-Type and the Trans-Am GTA were anamolies in that arguement because GM finally did something right--and then promptly killed it because it was "hurting Corvette sales". **** you GM. I don't blame the buying public because they can only buy what's available...with exception to pig-headed overly patriotic hicks who have a closed mind when it comes to anything that comes from or is influenced by something non-American. The same people who won't buy modern "Japanese" cars because "they're not American" when some of them are designed and built in America for Americans.
 
There is a lot that can be said about GM's unwillingness to utilize existing technologies to make the RWD cars happen that we want. The Aussies are getting diesel power in their Commodores, and yet, there aren't any specific plans for Americans to get it. There are rumors that we could get a hybrid Camaro, but GM could nix it for history's sake.

Simply put, there are alternative ways for these RWD cars to happen without violating the rules laid out by the EPA here in the US, and furthermore, other sanctioning bodies around the globe. That new 4.5L diesel V8 would work plenty well, as could the 2.9L diesel V6 that we'll likely see in the CTS (the CTS and G8 weigh nearly the same).

Hell, maybe if the G8 sells better than they expect GM will go about making the cars that they've been planning on for a while (RWD Park Avenue, Impala, Monaro/GTO, etc)...
 
I've always thought of the Firebird/Trans-Am as the "halo car" of Pontiac. Much like how people have said that Chrysler isn't really in need of a halo car since the Viper will soon be [disappointingly] dropped, is it sad that there won't be the Firebird/Trans-Am anytime in the future?

Just to show what the Firebird/Trans-Am means to me, the car that got me into cars was the F-Body Camaros as well as the Firebird/Trans-Am cars. I had a tough time telling the two apart in my past with cars. I always tend to hark back to the F-Body Camaros in regards to cars I've loved in my life. So to not see a rebirth of the Firebird/Trans-Am makes me a bit sad and disappointed personally.
 
There is a lot that can be said about GM's unwillingness to utilize existing technologies to make the RWD cars happen that we want. The Aussies are getting diesel power in their Commodores, and yet, there aren't any specific plans for Americans to get it. There are rumors that we could get a hybrid Camaro, but GM could nix it for history's sake.

If the new German onslaught of diesels proves a success, I would imagine GM would at least seriously consider offering diesel alternatives here. Or better yet, make the Firebird the diesel/alternative version of the Camaro.
 
So to not see a rebirth of the Firebird/Trans-Am makes me a bit sad and disappointed personally.

You and me both. The earliest coupe I can remember riding in as a kid is a 1970's Trans-Am. Its just as much of an American icon (the Firebird and Trans-Am) as the Camaro is. Infact I will throw out that the Trans-Am specifically is more well known than the Camaro. Smokie and the Bandit and Knight Rider had alot to do with it most likely.

Well the GTO, Charger, and Challenger made a comeback (briefly for the GTO) so anything's possible. Just don't turn a Firebird/Trans-Am into a saloon or I will quite upset.
 
As mentioned in another thread, its worthwhile to update the current rumors going on about the Zeta chassis at GM from the GMI Boards:

GM’s proliferation of the VE/Zeta platform also seems to be experiencing upheaval.

It seems that GM has all but official cancelled the RWD Impala (GMX551 program). GMI learned of this shortly before the recent articles with Lutz's commentary, but we were waiting to hear back from our insiders. Apparently there were people who sit on the GM Global Product Board who never liked the idea of the Impala moving to RWD, partially because of the success of the refreshed W-body model. The new CAFE standards were the icing on the cake for the case against a RWD Impala.

How this will settle is still up in the air. We have not heard much of the “Chi” platform (essentially a Lambda platform, but in a FWD application) for some time. In fact most of us think it is dead. However, could a project like this be revived if GM has killed a RWD Impala? There is also rumors that the next generation EpsilonII platform can be stretched and widened to accommodate an Impala – but will the Malibu (which is certainly larger than the car it replaced) cannibalize Impala sales between now and the next-generation, tarnishing the nameplate? Not to mention how it will affect possible future police/government car sales.

This will be a close call for GM; again demonstrating how government regulations can change so much in a short period of time.

But we can be critical of these decisions as well.

Though non of us are insiders, one wonders, why is it that GM is pulling back from some of these RWD endeavors while domestic competitors like Ford are moving forward with their plans for a new family of RWD products? And it is already confirmed that the new LY family of RWD products will be coming from Chrysler (the Challenger is supposed to be the first of the LYs). Since CAFE is based on “averages” is it possible that Ford’s future product mix will include significantly less trucks/suvs/etc to offset the expectant mileage from a “Huntsman/Orion” family of products? We already know that a number of future Ford products are planned from this platform --- why Ford and not GM? A recent article pegs use of a RWD vehicle to a loss of 1-MPG vs. a similarly sized FWD product. Cannot GM overcome this problem through AFM, DI, smaller engines with turbo-chargers, multi-speed automatics or "DSG" style transmissions, hybrid technology, HCCI ingition, etc?

Is any of this on the table or was GM's decision made in light of these current/emerging technologies as well? Can GM afford to let Chrysler and Ford move forward with their mass-market RWD programs and sit on the side-lines?

So, lets try to lay this out in simple bits and pieces from the past few weeks/months talk at GMI...

- The Camaro is going on unchanged and will be built at the Oshawa, Ontario plant as it has always been planned. The Monaro/GTO is semi-officially dead, the Camaro being a true global replacement for the mid-size coupe... Seeing duty in North America, Europe, Australia and even Asia. There are rumored "green" versions of the Camaro rolling about, including a Two-Mode hybrid model, however, details are not solid as of yet.

- The RWD Impala is semi-officially DEAD. No RWD Zeta (other than the Camaro) for Chevrolet, it seems. There have been people inside Chevrolet who have said it both ways on GMI, but the current line says that "it aint gonna happen." Too bad really, people were counting on it. Note that it may get the new "Chi" platform, or be based on a HUGE version of Epsilon-II (read Vectra/Insignia/Aura/everything mid-size at GM).

- A RWD Buick is not out of the question, but it won't happen for a while. The Velite was green-lighted, then turned down, but may come back. The Lucerne may go RWD, but that depends on Cadillac.

- Cadillac will use Zeta to replace the STS and the DTS, but details are scarce and unconfirmed. We know the Ultra V8 program is dead, so no one even knows what will power it.

- Rumor has it that Zeta production of non-Camaros may move from Oshawa (due to increased production and labor costs) to the already booming plants in Lansing, Michigan that already build the Lambda crossovers and Sigma-I/Sigma-II Cadillacs. This would split production between Australia, Canada and the United States, and rumors have flown that the Michigan plant could build Aussie-only models as well.

- What other Zeta models are coming? The G8 is here now-ish. There will be a G8 ST by the end of the year (read Ute), but the Sportwagon has been axed in the US. The GMC brand will likely get its own version of the Zeta chassis to replace both the GMT900 Sierra and GMT355 Canyon, to further separate it from the Chevrolet lineup. GMC may even replace its GMT900 Yukon with a Zeta-based crossover, which would be a new Holden Adventra of sorts.

- Oh, and what is going on with Alpha?
Alpha, so far, is still going on. But, no steel has been laid for the final design as of yet. Its based on Zeta, obviously much smaller (think of the relationship between the Y-Body and Kappa), and much more of a lightweight design. Confusion exists because development should be further along if it is a 2011/2012 due date, and furthermore, if Alpha and Kappa will merge to form the basis of not just 3-series fighters, but also small sports cars, possibly including the next Corvette.

- Damn the EPA. They did it. They made it complicated. So now we wait for GM to make their moves...
 
Btw, it's spelled Oshawa Ontario.;)
 
Fixed. Damn Canadians and their crazy town names... I should have known it too!
 
I agree with the last part of the article. 1mpg, big woop, that's the cost of RWD. That could seriously be gained back by anything, even as simple as a more slipstreamed body. GM execs, pull your heads out your rear ends- yes your fingers too. RWD is the answer, it always has been and always will be. If 1mpg is getting you worried, cancel a few trucks- America has enough of those domb things anyway. Cancel a small truck and replace it with an El Camino/leave the G8 ST to do its thing. Direct injection everything and bring the cost of it down. If you haven't the need to develop EFI normal injection then you will save money- and DI will become the cheap and effective norm. Anything else I should rant about? Oh yeah, diesels have potential.
 
I'm wondering if they could offset the loses for moving more Chevrolets to RWD by moving the Silverado and Suburban to the Zeta platform and keeping the GMC trucks on the GMT platforms. I'm sure there are easy ways to get around the penalty for going RWD. I mean, if even Chrysler can do it at this point.
 
Hard to say. I don't think Chevrolet will ditch full-out BOF (body on frame) trucks any time soon. As long as Ford and Dodge make similar offerings, GM will have to as well. There will always be a need for a full-size quarter-ton pickup.

That being said, I still think they should axe both of the GMT355 pickups in favor of a Zeta-based Ute. It will kinda-sorta happen with the G8 ST, but that certainly isn't the El Camino I was hoping for.
 
Is there something with the Chevy having to be the BOF truck? I personally think the GMC brand would better represent the bigger, badder attitude the GMT900 brings if I had to pick one. And having the Chevys being the Zeta trucks would probably open up more opportunities. I'm sure it's something the GM execs have considered. Maybe they need the GMC trucks to be more efficient so they don't have to kill the brand?
 
Chevrolet is better-known and generally sells in higher volumes, so experimenting with GMC won't hurt anyone. It ruins their "Professional Grade" attitude a bit, but I don't see any reason why they can't ditch BOF and still be top in their class.
 
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