2008 Belgian Grand Prix

[Alex.]

Make that Q3 aswell, Vettel was 2 seconds off everyone that session, hopefully on a 1 stopper.

 

[Lee]

Heidfeld outqualifies Kubica for the first time this season.

EDIT: Just found out it's infact the second time, my bad.

 

[superwally]

The sad part about F1 is that qualifying is generally more interesting and exciting to watch than the actual race.

I'm interested to see what kind of pace Alonso can maintain tomorrow.

 

[Muzaffar]

Both Toro Rosso's are in the top 10! Anyhow, I think they are fueled heavily (especially Vettel) so that they can jump the others during the pit stop. Hamilton has once again gotten pole, and both the front runner are both lightly fueled while both on the 2nd row are fueled slightly heavy. As for the BMW, I'm kinda surprised Kubica's driving style didn't suit Spa as much as Heidfeld, as usually Kubica will almost outqualify him.....

As for the race, oh yeah.... lets hope it does rain. I mean, it would totally benefit both the Toro Rosso and the Honda in some way. Its a shame that Honda seemed to be the slowest this time, even the Force India are ahead.....

 

[Lee]

Honda qualified 16th and 17th, not quite the worst.

I don't understand why STR fueled Vettel so heavily, Spa is a track that heavily promotes overtaking and in the opening few laps I can see him falling like a stone. Unless they are heavily expecting an SC, I can't see how this is a points-winning strategy.

Alonso/Webber battle continues on, should be a good-un, as for the win, I think Massa might be slightly more fueled than Lewis and might just steal it.

 

[Muzaffar]

Honda qualified 16th and 17th, not quite the worst.

I don't understand why STR fueled Vettel so heavily, Spa is a track that heavily promotes overtaking and in the opening few laps I can see him falling like a stone. Unless they are heavily expecting an SC, I can't see how this is a points-winning strategy.

Alonso/Webber battle continues on, should be a good-un, as for the win, I think Massa might be slightly more fueled than Lewis and might just steal it.

Eh..... yeah. Totally forgot about their late run during Q1. Bu still, that was only because the track manage to become "fast" during that late session, which also make Bourdais the quickest in that session. :tup:

Anyhow, I think STR are gambling that it could very well rain during the race and could probably hope that there will be some SC period that could put their strategy to plan. I fit doesn't then their toast. But I agree though, I think they fueled Vettel more heavier than Bourdais during that last session. I think Vettel could actually go faster if he was fueled the same as Bourdais.......

As for the race, I really can't tell who would win, but if Kimi's winning record in Spa is anything to go by then you know who else could pull it off. Kimi really need to push in this race if he ever wants to have a chance to stay no. 1 in Ferrari after the next race. Otherwise he would be of no use and have to support Massa for the WDC, making him the most expensive 2nd driver in a formula 1 team this year.

 

[Alex.]

Otherwise he would be of no use and have to support Massa for the WDC, making him the most expensive 2nd driver in a formula 1 team this year.

He's already the most expensive driver.

 

[Only_in_f1]

I wouldn't count Kimi out even if Massa did beat him this race. With Massa's bad luck Kimi could still challenge for this WDC. Stranger things have happend.

In any case, why does one driver have to rally around another? I feel sorry for Kimi he had two certain wins/big points taken away from him in Canada and France.

 

[Lee]

I feel sorry for Kimi he had two certain wins/big points taken away from him in Canada and France.

Yes but on the flipside:

Monaco: Outbreaks himself resulting in a broken front wing and an extra pit stop.
Britain: Team choose wrong strategy, Kimi still spins it on wets.
Germany: Was never ever in the picture.
Hungary: Again, due to quali, never really featured in the race.
Valencia: Goes from his pit stall before the green light is on, causing more seconds to be wasted.

Hardly a champions effort of late from him. 👎

 

[Only_in_f1]

Bee, I do agree and on the other hand Massa also has had his share of bad luck.

But I do think Kimi is good enough to pull it out. We'll see, a champion is able to up his game and we shall see what kind of champion Kimi is.

 

[Ardius]

I wouldn't count Kimi out even if Massa did beat him this race. With Massa's bad luck Kimi could still challenge for this WDC. Stranger things have happend.

In any case, why does one driver have to rally around another? I feel sorry for Kimi he had two certain wins/big points taken away from him in Canada and France.

But if Ferrari don't concentrate their efforts on one or the other, they both can potentially hurt each others championship.
I agree with Mark Blundell in saying that Ferrari should have made the decision to back Massa already.

When it comes down to it, Massa has shown much improvement and although he has his fair share of bad driving (especially in the wet), he seems to be the more reliable choice in my opinion and already has the advantage in points.

 

[Only_in_f1]

But if Ferrari don't concentrate their efforts on one or the other, they both can potentially hurt each others championship.
I agree with Mark Blundell in saying that Ferrari should have made the decision to back Massa already.

If im honest I dont agree with his views as he seems Pro Massa and he described some of the action of tomorrows race ; 'We may see the red cars float past the sliver ones...'

I don't like the idea of one member backing up another. I didnt agree with it when Massa was rear gunner for Kimi.

 

[Metar]

I missed the session, so I can't judge and think - but I'm glad to see Alonso, Webber and Bourdais in the top-ten, and Massa in 2nd is better than Massa in 3rd and lower - I'm now officially rooting for him.

Hardly a champions effort of late from him. 👎

Not to mention some truly terrible driving at Melbourne. He should be thankful that Massa's sloppy driving at the two opening races and Silverstone managed to draw the fire away.

 

[Ardius]

If im honest I dont agree with his views as he seems Pro Massa and he described some of the action of tomorrows race ; 'We may see the red cars float past the sliver ones...'

I don't like the idea of one member backing up another. I didnt agree with it when Massa was rear gunner for Kimi.

Meh, I was only really opposed to it when Barrichello was forced to let Schumacher win, that was totally out of line. But general team tactics are another aspect to the sport.
I don't normally agree with Blundell, but I agree with him on this point at least.

 

[Only_in_f1]

Why can't we have both Ferraris going for the championship going into the last race. Like McLaren last year, like Senna and Prost. It might not mean the team wins but it makes for some exciting racing.

 

[Lee]

Because unlike McLaren's 1, Ferrari have a number of road cars available. A manufacture who can brag that they are Formula 1 World Champions will sell alot more cars than one that says "Yeah.. We have the fastest driver.. Just er... Let's not worry about the teams."

 

[Only_in_f1]

Why not we have the fastest 2 drivers?

 

[Lee]

Well right now Ferrari doesn't have the fastest driver, that honour goes to Toro Rosso, but I was just saying, F1 is still considered a business and an advertising space for the manufactures in the 'sport'. The team championship is considered alot higher than the drivers.

EDIT: I Should quickly add I do support the idea of Ferrari backing Massa now, but in the interest of the discussion, I'll let that slip.

 

[Ardius]

Why not we have the fastest 2 drivers?

Why not have 2 world champions, eh? If they back Massa, they potentially gain a second world champion in their ranks.

Why can't we have both Ferraris going for the championship going into the last race. Like McLaren last year, like Senna and Prost. It might not mean the team wins but it makes for some exciting racing.

No, it doesnt mean the team doesn't win, it actually gives the team potentially more chance to win the constructors if they let them battle it out, but it stops either driver potentially winning, especially when other teams have fast drivers like this year who could sneak between the two and take the championship.
McLaren is a good example last year, beause of Hamilton and Alonso taking points out of each other, it let Raikkonen slip past for the win.

 

[Only_in_f1]

According to a finish ad they have the fastest driver in the world 'Raikkonen, Rosberg (although he is classed as 'German') and Kovalainen'

Maybe im speaking from a Kimi fan point. But I didnt agree last year when people said Massa should help Kimi. However Ferrari have always done it going back to Phil Hill helping Hawthorne.


You think Bourdais is the fastest drive?!

 

[Only_in_f1]

McLaren is a good example last year, beause of Hamilton and Alonso taking points out of each other, it let Raikkonen slip past for the win.

That's what I meant when I said 'might not win'

didnt mean to double post

 

[Lee]

You think Bourdais is the fastest drive?!

If you want me to be annoying, he is the only 4-time champ in the field.

Nah I'm on about that other chap, the one Alex loves oh so much..

 

[Ardius]

That's what I meant when I said 'might not win'

I thought you were referring to the team when you say "it might not mean the team wins". The team would win with both drivers scoring large amounts of points, but the drivers themselves may damage their championships.
In this case, if Ferrari continue to stand at the side lines and not take a strategy, Hamilton will get further and further ahead.

Oh, and what great racing have we seen between Massa and Raikkonen? They barely ever meet each other on track, because Raikkonen's qualifying performances have been low. If anything, telling Raikkonen to help defend will increase the racing as we see people trying to battle past Raikkonen to get a chance on Massa.

 

[Only_in_f1]

Nah I'm on about that other chap, the one Alex loves oh so much..

PeterJB drives for Toro Rosso?!

Oh, and what great racing have we seen between Massa and Raikkonen? They barely ever meet each other on track, because Raikkonen's qualifying performances have been low. If anything, telling Raikkonen to help defend will increase the racing as we see people trying to battle past Raikkonen to get a chance on Massa.

What racing have we seen between many of the top guys? Massa and Hamilton lasted one turn. Soon as Hamilton passed Massa in Germany not much happend.

 

[Ardius]

What racing have we seen between many of the top guys? Massa and Hamilton lasted one turn. Soon as Hamilton passed Massa in Germany not much happend.

Very true, but in that case what difference would backing neither driver make?

 

[Only_in_f1]

Well say tomorrow its wet, Kimi is behind Massa. Massa, knowing he's not to clever in the wet and is taking it steady and Kimi is a good 2 seconds a lap faster and Hamilton is catching both of them by a rate of a second a lap, does he risk over taking or sit and hope for the best? What happens if the same happens in the next race and so on, where do you draw a line?

 

[Ardius]

Well say tomorrow its wet, Kimi is behind Massa. Massa, knowing he's not to clever in the wet and is taking it steady and Kimi is a good 2 seconds a lap faster and Hamilton is catching both of them by a rate of a second a lap, does he risk over taking or sit and hope for the best? What happens if the same happens in the next race and so on, where do you draw a line?

They wouldn't do that though, team orders such as that are banned.

 

[Only_in_f1]

I don't get your post? I didnt say they should tell him to let him past im saying does Kimi risk overtaking or sit thinking of the team. Do the team tell him not to pass or do they let them go at it?

 

[Ardius]

I don't get your post? I didnt say they should tell him to let him past im saying does Kimi risk overtaking or sit thinking of the team. Do the team tell him not to pass or do they let them go at it?

The team would almost always tell Kimi to pass (or rather, warn Massa "your teammate is faster than you").
The point with the team backing one driver over the other, I would have thought anyway, is talking about fuel strategies, pit strategies and the overall strategy for the race. But if a situation arises like the one you mention, they will not risk McLaren gaining the points/themselves losing potential points.
Sorry I misunderstood your post, I thought you meant the team decides for Kimi, not Kimi deciding for himself. If it was up to Kimi, he would likely overtake as damage limitation. At least if Hamilton did catch Massa, Ferrari would at least gain.

 

[Motominded]

I'm watching on Speedtv, Robert Kubica didn't want to do the interview. He looks very frustrated.