2008 Best Car Series Final: FIAT 500 vs Audi R8

[McLaren]

Well the V-spec GT-R is coming too. And for the comparing of the NSX, that's in an entire different class than the R8

Oh and since the GT-R scored 7'29 and the R8 scored 8'04 at the ring, the R8 has to come with a lot more than just power to beat it. I shouldn't be worried, since the NSX-R was faster than the R8 by just one second

Too bad the 'Ring isn't the best the source for recognizing what car is faster than the other.

 

[Philly]

Its more about big power at low revvs.

That is a legitimate concern, seeing that the Audi doesn't achieve peak torque until 5100 rpms.

 

[bobzed]

I like both cars very much (and I voted for them in semifinals).
As far as they have met in the Final I vote for the 500. Basicly my opinion stands on my impressions, not price tags, specs whatsoever.
The 500 has a SOUL and that's my vote.

 

[Kent]

That is a legitimate concern, seeing that the Audi doesn't achieve peak torque until 5100 rpms.

Keep in mind that the Peak power is so far above the Fiat's a dyno may show the R8 achieving the Fiat's peak torque at a much lower number.
Let's just say the R8 produces 300 ft.lb. at 5100... Does the Fiat produce 150lb. at 2550? I doubt it. In fact, I'd bet the Fiat doesn't produce 150 at any RPM.
Of course that's just a guess on both the Fiat's torque and the R8's torque.

 

[niky]

It would take an absolute idiot on his first week of driving to lose to a Fiat 500 in an R8. More grip, more power, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I mean, c'mon... I've got hundreds of thousands of kilometers of driving under my belt, and I'm pretty good around a racetrack...

But there's no way in heck I can get my car to go faster than a Mitsubishi Evolution. And the difference in performance stats between us isn't so big... same tire grip, similar suspension development... brakes... power... errh... well... two out of four, ain't badwell... I can match a WRX... but only if the guy's a total noob.

An R8 lose to a Fiat 500? Maybe downhill with Sebastian Loeb driving the 500...

While I like the Fiat 500... the R8 gets the vote. The 500 may be nice, but it's done nothing that the Mini hasn't done before it.

Besides... it's not the R8's fault the GT-R lost. Some people just don't like the GT-R, and I can accept that... I just wish that had been the finals... it would have been more spectacular.

 

[Muzaffar]

Nope, the R8 is accutally a daily driver, thats right a sports car that you can driver to work and back comfortably, its not exactly got the practicallity of a Pagini

Well of course it could be looked at it that way, but whats the fun of a daily driver sports car if you can't even floor it like what a more capable sports car like the GT-R, Vette or even the 911 Turbo?

I am sorry, but just because it doesnt have 4 seats doesnt mean its not practical, no one said it has to be a family car, its practical on the basis it can be driven comfortably with luxuries and it has sufficient boot, its also high enough to get over speed bumps.

Well it can be seen that way as well, but I meant more practical in a sense that you could probably bring your family along as well. So whats the fun in a car like an Audi if you can't bring your entire family along for a joy ride like most 4 seater sports car?

Its not really a powerful engine by todays supercar standards less powerful than the GTR right, two seats just like an MR2 and the price is nowhere near supercar teritory at least here in the UK, as for the looks well yes it does look very supercarish, thats what I think makes the car so special.

Agreed on that, but that is the downfall of the car as well..... people will not think that the R8 will be a daily drivable sports car and probably think it could outperform some other supercar for cheaper. If it was marketed as a sports car, people could probably better off buying some better sports car on the market other than the R8. I could probably think the R8 in the future would end up like the NSX and not sell quite well.........

refined in which way? a bit of clarification?

As someone has mentioned, the R8 is still far off from what the 911 currently is. The Porsche has been a pioneer sports car maker in Germany for well over a few decades and have many many experience on how their car should handle on the road, despite the RR layout. Furthermore, the R8 just cannot even touch the 911 in terms of ride quality, practicality pricing or even performance.

it seems people will buy the 911 if they have the money, it seems people will buy the R8 if they have the money, both are selling pretty nicely, I wouldn't go as far as saying the Porsche in cheaper to maintain either both dealers will have you paying out your ears in maintainace cost though its hard to say which will be better.

There are more 911 on the road compared to the R8, and since the 911 has been in production longer than the R8, surely parts aren't that hard to find and should also be cheaper to make than the R8.

Yes i have gone well over the top in defending the R8 here, but you seem to be quite opinionated but you are lacking a factual background, just so you know the Audi is a mid engined 4wd.

Well yes, I know I may lack "something" about my opinions, but I still know it was a mid engine 4wd. I just had the habit of naming mid engine cars as MR (mid rear engines) and don't usually talk about the drivetrain, as it is obvious if you know a lot about the car.


Anyways, I think the R8 has outrightbeaten the 500 from this point outwards......

 

[Smallhorses]

Well it can be seen that way as well, but I meant more practical in a sense that you could probably bring your family along as well. So whats the fun in a car like an Audi if you can't bring your entire family along for a joy ride like most 4 seater sports car?

I hope you aren't basing this 4-seater sports car theory on the 911.
You can fit 2 adults comfortably in a 911.
3 adults as long as the 3rd sits in one of the back seats, but with their feet in the opposite footwell and even then it's not very comfortable.
To fit 4 people comfortably in the 4 "seats" of a 911, you need to have small children, or "Mini-Me" in the back.
Still, I'm not arguing, the fact that a 911 isn't classed as a "dangerous" 2-seater sports car means that it's actually cheaper to insure my 911 than it is my MX-5/Miata despite the 911 being 3 times the value of the Miata!!!

 

[homeforsummer]

It would take an absolute idiot on his first week of driving to lose to a Fiat 500 in an R8. More grip, more power, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera

It really is down to the driver though. As I mentioned earlier, the sort of general poseur who would buy the R8 probably won't be the best driver suited to extracting it's performance.

It's also interesting to note that the 500 has two things the Audi doesn't - good visibility and a narrower width. You'd be amazed how much more you can push a car when you've got that much more of the road to play with! And put an R8 on the average British country road and you wouldn't be able to even slightly see around most of the corners, wheras in the 500 you'd at least have a chance of seeing more over the hedges and bushes lining the road.

 

[slidesquad#1]

So far, 100% of the Fiat 500's I've seen have been driven by young women with oversized sunglasses. I could argue that they won't be the best to extract the best performance out of it either.
The general quality of owners/drivers shouldn't have any bearing on the performance of the cars itself. The race driver keeping up with the R8 in the 500 is a sign of inadequacy on the drivers part, not the cars.

 

[Moglet]

So far, 100% of the Fiat 500's I've seen have been driven by young women with oversized sunglasses. I could argue that they won't be the best to extract the best performance out of it either.
The general quality of owners/drivers shouldn't have any bearing on the performance of the cars itself. The race driver keeping up with the R8 in the 500 is a sign of inadequacy on the drivers part, not the cars.

Round here Fiat 500's are driven by middle aged men, but you're right in saying that that shouldn't affect the votes.

None of these choices should be taking the drivers into account, these are the votes for CAR of the year, nothing else.

While I like the Fiat 500... the R8 gets the vote. The 500 may be nice, but it's done nothing that the Mini hasn't done before it.

I really don't understand what the R8 has done that other cars haven't done before it either... Apart from make you pay ridiculous prices for things that should come as standard on a car like that. I was lookig through the R8 brochure last night and you'd be surprised at how many things are optional extras on it.

 

[slidesquad#1]

Round here Fiat 500's are driven by middle aged men, but you're right in saying that that shouldn't affect the votes.

None of these choices should be taking the drivers into account, these are the votes for CAR of the year, nothing else.

That wasn't meant as an insult or anything like that, it was just to point out that the 500 isn't the enthusiasts be all and end all.👍
I mean, you didn't buy your car to be a speed freak, did you? I appreciate that it's a hoot to drive, but to say it's comparable to the R8 through the twisties just seemed a bit far fetched.

 

[Moglet]

That wasn't meant as an insult or anything like that, it was just to point out that the 500 isn't the enthusiasts be all and end all.👍
I mean, you didn't buy your car to be a speed freak, did you? I appreciate that it's a hoot to drive, but to say it's comparable to the R8 through the twisties just seemed a bit far fetched.

Yeah, the R8 would slaughter a 500 everywhere, through corners and on straights, no doubt about it. And we're not even talking about the Abarth here. The standard 500 loses the back end for a split second if you hit a bump in a corner at high speeds! Not good for taking corners flat out, but it is exciting.

It does have a nice engine note though, I made a video of me driving mine about;


Sorry about the shakey cam!

 

[Tornado]

The 500 may be nice, but it's done nothing that the Mini hasn't done before it.

=

 

[slidesquad#1]

That does sound pretty throaty for a small engine. I'd say that sounds better than my car off boost. Hearing the turbo spool up is pretty fun though.

Looks like the Audi should take this one though, ~70 votes seems par for the course so far.

Edit: Re: the 500/Mini and R8/NSX, is there any car that legitimately goes where no other has gone these days?

 

[Jim Prower]

Oops, wait a minute...

I guess not.

 

[buickgnx88]

Ah AMC, those were the days.

 

[Tornado]

What a twist!

 

[slidesquad#1]

Haha, looking at that, it seems Bangle might have been inspired by the Aztek when he was designing the headlights for the 6 series

 

[Serge.D]

That's everybody's problem right now. Everybody thinks that European cars are as pretty as Halle Berry and just swoons all over them. But opinions are opinions

If we may not vote for a European car,then we can't vote here
because they are both European.

 

[Jim Prower]

Aw, shoot. I knew I shouldn't have made the X6 comparo. Okay, that's enough offtrack...

May I say something, Gator? I realize you're pissed, I know I was, But, I think it's time to get over it. I mean, It's not like we were alone in thinking the GT-R deserved to be here more than the R8. I really think that one was the true fight for the title, there, and, in retrospect, as well as it did, I think it's justified that the GT-R is definitely a great car. It's just not the latest thing. The R8, on the other hand, is. Thus, more of the undecided people were more apt to vote for it.

 

[YSSMAN]

That does sound pretty throaty for a small engine. I'd say that sounds better than my car off boost. Hearing the turbo spool up is pretty fun though.

That makes my Celica sound downright pedestrian compared to that, as there is absolutely no growl in my car. Just a wind-up gearbox noise, and a bit of woosh-woosh that you'd expect in a car with an engine out of a Toyota Camry.

 

[Philly]

I get that transmission noise and engine tune in normal driving. It's nice.

That does sound pretty throaty for a small engine. I'd say that sounds better than my car off boost. Hearing the turbo spool up is pretty fun though.

VW seems to be very good at exhaust systems. The GTI does sound great for a small 2.0 Four-banger. That sound is pretty consistent with the smooth, deep and loud of the GTI, although with another bank attached.

I wonder how it would sound at full throttle in a tunnel. The symphony of the engine, transmission, turbo and exhaust screaming in harmony is just amazing in the GTI. The lack of a turbo should take away some of the cool, although the V8 part would probably make up a lot of that.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

As someone has mentioned, the R8 is still far off from what the 911 currently is. The Porsche has been a pioneer sports car maker in Germany for well over a few decades and have many many experience on how their car should handle on the road, despite the RR layout. Furthermore, the R8 just cannot even touch the 911 in terms of ride quality, practicality, pricing or even performance.

May I remind you that the R8 beat the Porsche. I seriously doubt it would have gotten this far if it wasn't better or at least matched the 911 in at least one of those categories.

Well yes, I know I may lack "something" about my opinions, but I still know it was a mid engine 4wd. I just had the habit of naming mid engine cars as MR (mid rear engines) and don't usually talk about the drivetrain, as it is obvious if you know a lot about the car.

Why is the R8 being mid-engined not practical?

 

[forza2.0]

It really is down to the driver though. As I mentioned earlier, the sort of general poseur who would buy the R8 probably won't be the best driver suited to extracting it's performance.

It's also interesting to note that the 500 has two things the Audi doesn't - good visibility and a narrower width. You'd be amazed how much more you can push a car when you've got that much more of the road to play with! And put an R8 on the average British country road and you wouldn't be able to even slightly see around most of the corners, wheras in the 500 you'd at least have a chance of seeing more over the hedges and bushes lining the road.

Wow the things people come up with in favour of the 500.

Now why exactly would a R8 driver be more likely to be a general poseur than a 500 driver.

Are you generalising or stereotyping? Perhaps you should add some more stereotypes as to which demographic FIAT have circled with their 500

 

[Philly]

Why are we arguing about performance and driving excitement? The R8 has 20 times as much power and is designed to go very fast (by definition of "sportscar") and be great to drive. The 500 isn't. Fun or not, it's a city car, supposed to get you from point A to point B. An uneconomical sports car had better be faster and much more fun to drive than a little, practical econobox.

 

[Leonidae]

wow, the things you come up to favour the VAG products in general.. that's just the same thing.

 

[homeforsummer]

So far, 100% of the Fiat 500's I've seen have been driven by young women with oversized sunglasses. I could argue that they won't be the best to extract the best performance out of it either.
The general quality of owners/drivers shouldn't have any bearing on the performance of the cars itself. The race driver keeping up with the R8 in the 500 is a sign of inadequacy on the drivers part, not the cars.

Are you generalising or stereotyping? Perhaps you should add some more stereotypes as to which demographic FIAT have circled with their 500

Stereotyping, obviously.

I was responding to a point that a 500 could keep up with an R8, that's all. And I was referring to the Abarth model, at that. I wasn't saying that it would, in any circumstance I kept up with a spiritedly-driven Audi S4 in a PT Cruiser - it doesn't mean the PT is faster but it does show that you can keep up with quick cars in pretty average ones when the person in the quicker car has more ego than talent Many, many car magazines have reported how their pretty average "camera cars" often are able to keep up with much, much quicker machinery when the conditions are right. And you presume in this case the guys in the quick cars do know what they're doing.

 

[McLaren]

Round here Fiat 500's are driven by middle aged men, but you're right in saying that that shouldn't affect the votes.

None of these choices should be taking the drivers into account, these are the votes for CAR of the year, nothing else.



I really don't understand what the R8 has done that other cars haven't done before it either... Apart from make you pay ridiculous prices for things that should come as standard on a car like that. I was lookig through the R8 brochure last night and you'd be surprised at how many things are optional extras on it.

Then welcome to the world of exotic car sales because you're going to see expensive options like the R8's in nearly all exotic car manufacturers. Lamborghini & Ferrari are notoriously well known for their's.

 

[forza2.0]

I kept up with a spiritedly-driven Audi S4 in a PT Cruiser

Usually when people make such claims on owners forums, how they kept up with a clearly much superior car, they either get:

1. Loads of replies how the superior car owner wasnt trying.
2. Ends up in the scrapyard section
3. Simply gets locked or deleted

 

[Picc84]

I voted for the R8, although allot of people do not like it, I think the car is a work of art. Although quite pricy, and defiantly worthy of the "super-car" term, The car is quite drivable by everyone, and not just a race car, giving my vote