2009 Japanese Grand Prix

  • Thread starter Thread starter Peter
  • 229 comments
  • 17,076 views
Glocks crash was weird. His steering wheel was turned very much right but he seemed to go straight.
 
Roo
Kovalinen has a 5 place penalty for changing his gearbox, so:

Code: 
Pos  Driver       Team
 1.  Vettel       Red Bull-Renault
 2.  Trulli       Toyota
 3.  Hamilton     McLaren-Mercedes 
 4.  Heidfeld     BMW-Sauber
 5.  Raikkonen    Ferrari  
 6.  Rosberg      Williams-Toyota
 7.  Kubica       BMW-Sauber
 8.  Sutil        Force India-Mercedes  *
 9.  Barrichello  Brawn-Mercedes        *
10.  Alguersuari  Toro Rosso-Ferrari
11.  Button       Brawn-Mercedes        *
12.  Fisichella   Ferrari
13.  Kovalainen   McLaren-Mercedes      **
14.  Buemi        Toro Rosso-Ferrari    *
15.  Nakajima     Williams-Toyota
16.  Grosjean     Renault
17.  Alonso       Renault               *
18.  Liuzzi       Force India-Mercedes  **
19.  Glock        Toyota                ***
20.  Webber       Red Bull-Renault      ***

*   Five-place grid penalty
**  Five-place grid penalty for changing gearbox
*** Will use new chassis so will start from the pitlane

Linky

I didn't see qualifying, but as I understand it the Brawns hadn't set a time when they completed their yellow flag times, and as such are better off than they would have been following the rules (14th/15th ish).
Click to expand...

According to www.formula1.com the new grid is

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/10/10041.html
1. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 658.5kg
2. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 655.5
3. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 656
4. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 660
5. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 661
6. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 675
7. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 684.5
8. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 686
9. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 650
10. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 660.5
11. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, 682.5
12. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 658.5
13. Giancarlo Fisichella, Ferrari, 661.5
14. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 665.4
15. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 695.7
16. Romain Grosjean, Renault, 691.8
17. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 689.5
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India, 682.5
19. Timo Glock, Toyota, n/a
20. Mark Webber, Red Bull, n/a
Click to expand...
Now - if Kov takes a pen - he will move 5 back from there...

1. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 658.5kg
2. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 655.5
3. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 656
4. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 660
5. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 661
6. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 684.5
7. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 686
8. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 650
9. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 660.5
10. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, 682.5
11. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 675
12. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 658.5
13. Giancarlo Fisichella, Ferrari, 661.5
14. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 665.4
15. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 695.7
16. Romain Grosjean, Renault, 691.8
17. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 689.5
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India, 682.5
19. Timo Glock, Toyota, n/a
20. Mark Webber, Red Bull, n/a

Which looks significantly different - and even worse for Button...

EDIT : That other grid MUST be wrong - how on earth did Fisichella get up there?!

C.
 
Apparantly we won't know for sure until tomorrow.

Autosport
Final grid to be published on Sunday

Saturday, October 3rd 2009, 13:27 GMT

A definitive grid for the Japanese Grand Prix will be issued prior to the race on Sunday morning.

Title rivals Rubens Barrichello and Jenson Button, Force India's Adrian Sutil and Renault's Fernando Alonso have all been given five-place penalties for failing to slow sufficiently under yellow flags for Sebastien Buemi's accident in Q2. The Toro Rosso driver was also penalised for dragging his damaged car back to the pits.

Although provisional grids have been circulated, a firm decision on the starting order has yet to be made, as the positions will depend on the order in which penalties are applied - with the regulations stating that "grid position penalties will be applied to the drivers in question in the order the offences were committed."

Mark Webber and Timo Glock will have to start from the pitlane having changed chassis after today's accidents, while Tonio Liuzzi had already received a five place penalty prior to qualifying due to a gearbox change.
Click to expand...

Source
 
yeti
Which looks significantly different - and even worse for Button...
Click to expand...
I disagree. Kovalainen and Alguersuari being Kovalainen and Alguersuari present very little threat.
 
interludes
I disagree. Kovalainen and Alguersuari being Kovalainen and Alguersuari present very little threat.
Click to expand...

Perhaps - they may well fall off in front of him...

But it is more metreage down the track - and also - more rookies around button on the start...

On thing however is for sure - the starting lap is going to be pretty epic!!

C.
 
PJ-FFL
Didn't Glock's steering column break?He was turning the wheel at 90 degrees and they didn't move.
Click to expand...

Toyota reported no mechanical failures.

You can clearly see the right hand side wheel move when he removes the steering wheel after the crash.
 
Formula 1.com has changed it's mind... to a third possible connotation...

1. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 658.5kg
2. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 655.5
3. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 656
4. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 660
5. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 661
6. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 684.5
7. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 686
8. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 650
9. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 660.5
10. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, 682.5
11. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 658.5
12. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 675
13. Giancarlo Fisichella, Ferrari, 661.5
14. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 665.4
15. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 695.7
16. Romain Grosjean, Renault, 691.8
17. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 689.5
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India, 682.5
19. Timo Glock, Toyota, n/a
20. Mark Webber, Red Bull, n/a
Click to expand...

Although they do qualify that with the statement...

Note that the final starting order may change depending on the order in which penalties were deemed to have been applied. A final grid will be published by the FIA on Sunday morning.
Click to expand...

Surely someone should know what the order will be?!

C.
 
So, I believe Raikkonen got lucky with all the punishments, he'll start 5th being much heavier than the rest of the people around him. It also helped Vettel a lot, considering Button will struggle to score tomorrow.

But for the main fight, Button vs. Barrichello, I think this could potentially help Barrichello a bit. He'll probably go super aggressive tomorrow, as opposed to Button who'll probably be very careful. If Barrichello manages to pass the heavier cars in front of him he could create a considerable gap to Button. I think this is reasonable to expect, considering Barrichello has had great take-offs this year and he's on a faster car than the people around him and lighter. On the other hand, the chances of an accident would be increased for Barrichello, which would most likely finish the championship for him.
 
tibiquera
So, I believe Raikkonen got lucky with all the punishments, he'll start 5th being much heavier than the rest of the people around him. It also helped Vettel a lot, considering Button will struggle to score tomorrow.

But for the main fight, Button vs. Barrichello, I think this could potentially help Barrichello a bit. He'll probably go super aggressive tomorrow, as opposed to Button who'll probably be very careful. If Barrichello manages to pass the heavier cars in front of him he could create a considerable gap to Button. I think this is reasonable to expect, considering Barrichello has had great take-offs this year and he's on a faster car than the people around him and lighter. On the other hand, the chances of an accident would be increased for Barrichello, which would most likely finish the championship for him.
Click to expand...

Really? I thought Barrichello had made a fair few awful starts this year.
 
I don't know about Glock, I think Formula 1 sneezed this Saturday lunchtime (Japan-time). It was more like the last race of a BTCC season than F1 qualifying.

I was surprised by the lack of pace of the Brawns, but the thing that really gets my goat is that the stewards need 22hrs to set the grid. It's time the FIA removed the sign saying "Race Control" and replaced it with one saying "Dunno. What was the question?"
 
I thought that the Brawns made some big mistakes in the session - why did they only set themselves up for one hot lap - everyone else was doing 2 hotlaps - and the 2nd was better - because the tyres were better after a lap and a half...

Also - if they'd've done that - then they wouldn't've been ruined by Buemi's excursion (if they backed off!)

I thought they might have learned from Q2 - but they made the same mistake in Q3 too...

C.
 
LewyOs
Really? I thought Barrichello had made a fair few awful starts this year.
Click to expand...

Well, those were attributed to his gearbox (although I don't now if there's any driver error in there). But in most of the races he had really good starts. Spain he went from third to first, Valencia he kept up with the lighter McLarens and almost passed them, Singapore he passed one and had to back off because one guy got in front of him, and there were many others too.
 
LewyOs
Really? I thought Barrichello had made a fair few awful starts this year.
Click to expand...

From what I heard is that in Turkey, he had a software and gearbox problem. And again in Spa, he had a software problem too...

So not preety much his own mistake from what I saw... But they're all awful starts...
 
yeti
I thought that the Brawns made some big mistakes in the session - why did they only set themselves up for one hot lap - everyone else was doing 2 hotlaps - and the 2nd was better - because the tyres were better after a lap and a half...

Also - if they'd've done that - then they wouldn't've been ruined by Buemi's excursion (if they backed off!)

I thought they might have learned from Q2 - but they made the same mistake in Q3 too...

C.
Click to expand...

True. They should have been amongst the first cars out in each qualifying session to get a banker lap in just in case. It's the only sane think to do when your fighting for a championship.
 
I'm disappointed that they went back to 2 levels of tire separation for this GP.
 
Guys, i know the rules are there but what did they have to compared the Brawns, Alonso and Sutil against? They only had two flying laps, one was a donkey lap from Raikkonen and the other was Trulli I think and that didnt even get close to what Seb Vet did in the second session.

I'm smelling something here
 
I would think they looked at the telemetry to determine whether they lifted "sufficiently" or at all.
 
The FIA has published a full grid. The penalties were issued in the order the infringements were performed, so it looks like this:

1. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 658.5
2. Trulli Toyota 655.5
3. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 656.0
4. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber 660.0
5. Raikkonen Ferrari 661.0
6. Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 660.5 *
7. Rosberg Williams-Toyota 684.5
8. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 650.0 *
9. Kubica BMW-Sauber 686.0
10. Button Brawn-Mercedes 658.5 *
11. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 675.0 **
12. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 682.5
13. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 665.4 *
14. Fisichella Ferrari 661.5
15. Nakajima Williams-Toyota 695.7
16. Alonso Renault 689.5 *
17. Grosjean Renault 691.8
18. Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes 682.5 **
19. Webber Red Bull-Renault - ***
20. Glock Toyota - ****
 
Liking the look of Vettel at the front but love how Rosberg looks but has a lot of fast company around him
 
interludes
The FIA has published a full grid. The penalties were issued in the order the infringements were performed, so it looks like this:

1. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 658.5
2. Trulli Toyota 655.5
3. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 656.0
4. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber 660.0
5. Raikkonen Ferrari 661.0
6. Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 660.5 *
7. Rosberg Williams-Toyota 684.5
8. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 650.0 *
9. Kubica BMW-Sauber 686.0
10. Button Brawn-Mercedes 658.5 *
11. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 675.0 **
12. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 682.5
13. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 665.4 *
14. Fisichella Ferrari 661.5
15. Nakajima Williams-Toyota 695.7
16. Alonso Renault 689.5 *
17. Grosjean Renault 691.8
18. Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes 682.5 **
19. Webber Red Bull-Renault - ***
20. Glock Toyota - ****
Click to expand...

Shouldn't Fisichella be 13th? Why did he get pushed back a spot? Buemi should be behind him.
 
Ian Poole
Guys, i know the rules are there but what did they have to compared the Brawns, Alonso and Sutil against? They only had two flying laps, one was a donkey lap from Raikkonen and the other was Trulli I think and that didnt even get close to what Seb Vet did in the second session.

I'm smelling something here
Click to expand...

seeing as ross brawn even stated that barichello or button didnt lift at all i dont think they had much hope. but as was stated they most likely looked at telemetry data.
 
Well there was onboard footage of Alonso coming out of Spoon with the yellow light on...he didn't let off until a little before 130R when he saw Buemi, but by then he had already passed through the second yellow light where the marshalls had been flagging as well.
 
Last edited:
well thats interesting the SpeedTV commentators just gave me a good laugh. aparently Piquet Jr will be testing one of the nascar trucks.
 
Without very much success I imagine.
 
Last edited:
Button has magically caught Barrichelo
 
And now Jamie has had a massive crash. Brutal.
 
good to see the championship battle will go at least 1 more week.
 
Dominant drive by Vettel 👍

Either Trulli was very exhausted, or he knows this might have been his last podium for Toyota... Either way, this performance by him should shut up those who think he can't carry a great pace through a full race.
 
Brilliant drive from Vettel. 👍 Certainly had the pace this weekend so the victory was very well deserved.
 
Back