2009 Turkish Grand Prix

Anyone want to take a small wager on a first-corner accident involving Fisichella?
Metar
Thank you, Renault engineers, for bringing me my Weekend Facepalm, every time. :banghead:
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I suspect the only way Alonso can get into Q3 is with a fuel tank as dry as a martini.
 
Do you race?
I suspect the only way Alonso can get into Q3 is with a fuel tank as dry as a martini.
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Everyone is on empty tanks going into Q3, so he got there on genuine pace. But when they put their race fuel on for Q3 it's like they think he can sneak into the top 5 if they just take that little bit of extra fuel out, and it never really works (save China).
 
Blake
Everyone is on empty tanks going into Q3, so he got there on genuine pace. But when they put their race fuel on for Q3 it's like they think he can sneak into the top 5 if they just take that little bit of extra fuel out, and it never really works (save China).
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Well, to me common sense dictates they should plot fuel based on strategy, not strategy based on fuel. In other words, they should go into Q3 with a strategy in mind, rather than siphon off some fuel, see where Alonso parks it and go from there. It's all well and good to put the car into the top five, but that's somewhat negated by the fact that he has to pit on the third lap. To me, working out the strategy ahead of time would pay dividends far sooner than working it out on the fly (I know strattegies are always changing, but that's not what I meant), because then you're just banking on a safety car to keep you in the game. Unless his strategy is to suck it dry and see wht happens next, in which case his strategist should probably be issued his P-45.
 
Seeing as he barely made it into Q3, the smart thing would probably have been to give him a fair bit of fuel. That way his fuel load would be more in line with the people behind him and if he could keep up with the racers in the front, he could jump them in the pits. As it is, he has the lightest fuel load and will probably be stuck in the race. Not only will the people behind him pit later, but also the people in front of him. His biggest hope now is to pass a few people in the first lap.
 
Do you race?
I suspect the only way Alonso can get into Q3 is with a fuel tank as dry as a martini.
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:banghead:

And after this, will you keep arrogantly correcting PJ-FFL?

Do you race?
Well, to me common sense dictates they should plot fuel based on strategy, not strategy based on fuel. In other words, they should go into Q3 with a strategy in mind, rather than siphon off some fuel, see where Alonso parks it and go from there. It's all well and good to put the car into the top five, but that's somewhat negated by the fact that he has to pit on the third lap. To me, working out the strategy ahead of time would pay dividends far sooner than working it out on the fly (I know strattegies are always changing, but that's not what I meant), because then you're just banking on a safety car to keep you in the game. Unless his strategy is to suck it dry and see wht happens next, in which case his strategist should probably be issued his P-45.
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Wait, what? Of course they determine fuel-loads based on a strategy. :odd:

It's a game of compromises with a slow-for-Q3 car like the Renault. On raw pace, it's 9th-8th at best, and so, you either fuel heavy and hope you're not jumped by Q2 runners at the start (or lose sight of the front-runners), or fuel light and hope you don't get shafted too hard at the stops or in traffic: And as long as Alonso stays in the points, he'll be around where his car can get on raw pace, anyway.

This strategy may be wrong, but it's not strategy-by-fuel, or "let's try this" - if it was experiments, don't you think we'd see at least one race with a heavy Alonso?

ROAD_DOGG33J
Seeing as he barely made it into Q3, the smart thing would probably have been to give him a fair bit of fuel. That way his fuel load would be more in line with the people behind him and if he could keep up with the racers in the front, he could jump them in the pits. As it is, he has the lightest fuel load and will probably be stuck in the race. Not only will the people behind him pit later, but also the people in front of him. His biggest hope now is to pass a few people in the first lap.
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It appears Renault missed that bit of strategy in 2008, as well: Throughout the first half of the season, Alonso was faster than his immediate rivals (Red Bull and Toyota at the time), ahead in qualifying - but also lighter, and thus got jumped in the stops. It took the Renault team half a season to realize it doesn't work... And now they forgot it all.
 
Guys it shows here Alonso is 664 not 644

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/06/06/vettel-the-lightest-car-on-grid/
1 - Sebastian Vettel / Red Bull = 649.5kg *
2 - Jenson Button / Brawn = 655.5kg
3 - Rubens Barrichello / Brawn = 652.5kg *
4 - Mark Webber / Red Bull = 656.0kg
5 - Jarno Trulli / Toyota = 652.0kg *
6 - Kimi Räikkönen / Ferrari = 658.0kg
7 - Felipe Massa / Ferrari = 654.0kg *
8 - Fernando Alonso / Renault = 664.5kg *
9 - Nico Rosberg / Williams = 660.0kg *
10 - Robert Kubica / BMW = 664.0kg *
11 - Nick Heidfeld / BMW = 681.5kg
12 - Kazuki Nakajima / Williams = 680.4kg
13 - Timo Glock / Toyota = 689.0kg
14 - Heikki Kovalainen / McLaren = 665.0kg *
15 - Adrian Sutil / Force India = 668.5kg *
16 - Lewis Hamilton / McLaren = 696.5kg
17 - Nelson Piquet / Renault = 689.6kg
18 - Sébastien Buemi / Toro Rosso = 686.5kg *
19 - Giancarlo Fisichella / Force India = 688.5kg
20 - Sébastien Bourdais / Toro Rosso = 701.0kg
 
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I did wonder why other reports said Vettel was lightest of the front-runners - I assumed they just didn't include Alonso as one of that group.

On the other hand, the official FIA site, and F1.com, list him at 644. Perhaps GPupdate is the mistaken one?
 
Metar
On the other hand, the official FIA site, and F1.com, list him at 644. Perhaps GPupdate is the mistaken one?
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Confusing though, because Renault said they were well placed with the amount of fuel Alonso had on board.
 
Wow, this is the first time I've seen the drivers and teams in one meeting together:

_45880926_fotameeting.jpg


Also, I was just on the BBC website feed and apparently they say there is a rumour going around the teams with conditional entries may boycott this race and not start like the 2005 US GP, leaving only Williams and Force India to race. However they emphasise this is just a rumour.

We shall have to see what happens in an hour's time...
 
Blake
Confusing though, because Renault said they were well placed with the amount of fuel Alonso had on board.
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"Yeah, we're on fumes, but we managed to beat the HMS Rosberg and SMS Kubica." (yeah, old German navy ships has the prefix SMS.)

Ardius
Also, I was just on the BBC website feed and apparently they say there is a rumour going around the teams with conditional entries may boycott this race and not start like the 2005 US GP, leaving only Williams and Force India to race. However they emphasise this is just a rumour.

We shall have to see what happens in an hour's time...
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Sutil's first podium? :p
 
Wow, I didn't know Vettel and Hartley were boyfriends :lol:
 
Vettel's race strategy is to go to the toilet...

Interesting.
 
Metar
"Yeah, we're on fumes, but we managed to beat the HMS Rosberg and SMS Kubica." (yeah, old German navy ships has the prefix SMS.)
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And that would make Piquet the HMS Titanic (I don't know the proper prefix)?
 
In the BBC's preamble, they had Alonso lightest also, pitting at lap 12.

We'll find out in 2 laps' time...

Edit: Alonso in on lap 13.
 
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Button's come in earlier than they guessed...
 
Dull race. Jenson did his usual dominance show, and Rubens' action was over after 14 laps... Vettel's strategists must be partying with the Alonso guys these days.
 
Not a bad result for Webber.

Vettel threw away first by going off then threw away 2nd by two slow stints.
 
Deary me, as Brundle put it in the post-race forum, the rest of the teams really need to get their acts together! Jenson and Brawn again on top, I still can't believe it.

All I hope is that Button doesn't end his streak with Silverstone, that would be sad. But it has to end eventually...surely?

Felt sorry for Rubens, though its sad to see again he is mentioning some kind of conspiracy against him.
 
I'm going to take this opportunity to gloat: what were people saying about Felipe Massa being a sure thing of victory? Because I forget ...
Metar
And after this, will you keep arrogantly correcting PJ-FFL?
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Probably. Because, to quote Edmund Blackadder, "That's just the way it is. I kick the cat, the cat kicks the rat, and the rat kicks you, Baldrick."
 
Can't argue with the great Blackadder, but I do think your needlessly arrogant replies at him kind of backfired. Light fuel being a requirement to reach Q3 is an obvious requirement. :p
 
Ardius
Felt sorry for Rubens, though its sad to see again he is mentioning some kind of conspiracy against him.
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Really?

I think Rubens deserved everything he got, he was driving like a total imbecile today.

Just because he was in a quicker car doesn't mean he can throw the car into a gap that isn't there, fortunately his attempted passes only cost himself and not anyone else's races.
 
I loved how Brundle said on the lap before he shunted Kova that, "as an experienced driver Rubens knows that v he aims for will get closed up." Next lap, the experienced driver goes into the 'v' and takes out Kova, who did well to keep it in a straight line.

He played with fire and he got burnt. Having no 7th didn't help, and it remains to be seen if the start was his fault or not. Hasn't he done that before this season?
 
I mean I feel sorry for his bad luck, please show me where I said anything about glossing over his appalling performance today? I did not.

I do feel bad for him though, because its just not going his way this year but at least it provided a very entertaining start to the race!

He needs to get his together though and start using that experience of his to keep a steady hand when it goes wrong, I couldn't believe it when he tried that move on Kovalainen, it was never going to stick without contact. But, he did provide most of the drama today, with the rest being supplied by Red Bull's fruity strategists.

I was happy to see Trulli, Rosberg, Kubica and Glock in points but here lies the problem with everyone except for Brawn - there's no consistencey, no-one is challenging Button consistently enough and its what is making this championship a little dull.
 
Great we are going to have another Michael Schumacher year,
it's going to be a good year.
 
That Webber fellow messed up what would otherwise have been a 1-2-3 for my Fantasy F1 team.

I quite liked that race. Why can't all modern race tracks be that good?
 
I have to go out today so i am going to miss the race. Reminding you guys, NO SPOILERS!!!!!!!
 
Psst, race already happened. ;)

Just stay out of the threads if you want it spoiler-free..
 
I have to wait to see it on FOX because F1 is broadcasting on FOX for the next 4 races. That's in about 1 hour and I have to go now.
 
Why does anyone who doesn't want to know the result look in this thread?
 
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