2009 Turkish Grand Prix

[Bram Turismo]

there's no consistencey, no-one is challenging Button consistently enough and its what is making this championship a little dull.

I'd say consistency is not the problem, but raw speed. So far no single car seem to really threaten the Brawn car on race pace, although judging by the results the Red Bull cars seemed to be getting closer. I haven't had the chance to view the race, but I'm more than statisfied to see my Toyota boys both in the points 👍

 

[Ardius]

I'd say consistency is not the problem, but raw speed. So far no single car seem to really threaten the Brawn car on race pace, although judging by the results the Red Bull cars seemed to be getting closer. I haven't had the chance to view the race, but I'm more than statisfied to see my Toyota boys both in the points 👍

But we have seen in qualifying, there are several cars that have the speed to beat Brawn. The differences are still barely in tenths of a second.
Each race, we seem to have a couple of teams upgrading and jumping up ahead of the rest be it BMW one race then Toyota the next and then Ferrari. But each time they are only gaining a few tenths, it means so much.

There have been several occasions this season where strategy calls have potentially stopped teams at least slowing down Brawn's lead. It also seems that everyone always seems to make a mistake at just the right moment for it to benefit Button/Brawn, Vettel/Kubica in Australia, Toyota in Bahrain, Vettel in Spain and so on.

The BGP001 is the fastest car, there is no doubt about it. However, their dominance has come more from the combination of being fast, reliable, consistent and incredibly accurate with strategy calls. In one of or all of those areas, the other teams have failed and I feel teams like Red Bull and Toyota aren't good enough with stategy calls at times.

I guess the only thing that we do know is that Button is winning this by making no mistakes on race day complimented by Ross' usual strategic brilliance.
I also guess we will find out come the end of the season which teams were giving it their all to try and find some speed, as they'll be the ones who run out of engines. I can actually see some teams like Toro Rosso and Force India gaining points at the end of the season if they have saved their engines thanks to their running at the back.

 

[mipuumal]

He played with fire and he got burnt. Having no 7th didn't help, and it remains to be seen if the start was his fault or not. Hasn't he done that before this season?

He did have a 7th gear but it was just really short, maybe related to his start problem.

Unfortunately another race without any excitement or meaningful battles.

I'm half-hoping that the FOTA teams break off and maybe we can see something exciting again.

V10 engines, no revlimit, multiple tire suppliers?

 

[Tired Tyres]

How about everybody gets a Brawn BG001 with a Mercedes engine? Then the guy at the front is truly the quickest.

 

[Stevisiov]

But we have seen in qualifying, there are several cars that have the speed to beat Brawn. The differences are still barely in tenths of a second.
Each race, we seem to have a couple of teams upgrading and jumping up ahead of the rest be it BMW one race then Toyota the next and then Ferrari. But each time they are only gaining a few tenths, it means so much.

There have been several occasions this season where strategy calls have potentially stopped teams at least slowing down Brawn's lead. It also seems that everyone always seems to make a mistake at just the right moment for it to benefit Button/Brawn, Vettel/Kubica in Australia, Toyota in Bahrain, Vettel in Spain and so on.

The BGP001 is the fastest car, there is no doubt about it. However, their dominance has come more from the combination of being fast, reliable, consistent and incredibly accurate with strategy calls. In one of or all of those areas, the other teams have failed and I feel teams like Red Bull and Toyota aren't good enough with stategy calls at times.

I guess the only thing that we do know is that Button is winning this by making no mistakes on race day complimented by Ross' usual strategic brilliance.
I also guess we will find out come the end of the season which teams were giving it their all to try and find some speed, as they'll be the ones who run out of engines. I can actually see some teams like Toro Rosso and Force India gaining points at the end of the season if they have saved their engines thanks to their running at the back.

A very good post indeed, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Metar]

I also guess we will find out come the end of the season which teams were giving it their all to try and find some speed, as they'll be the ones who run out of engines. I can actually see some teams like Toro Rosso and Force India gaining points at the end of the season if they have saved their engines thanks to their running at the back.

They're not saving the engines running at the back: They're giving it all they can, but they're just slow. Jenson won three races with the same engine (remarkable feat) and used just three so far, as did Rubens - and these engines are still usable. Almost everyone on the grid has nearly his full allotment still usable: Some used two-three engines completely, others used a few more but lightly.

Only Vettel and Kubica are under threat, since both blew two engines. Kubica, IIRC, already "soiled" five engines, two of them blown up. Vettel only lost one new engine, though - the current one was an old unit for Fridays.

And yes, excellent post - though I might add that while Brawn is sometimes matched on raw pace, their consistency and race-pace still seems above the rest. Jenson can hammer down a few fast laps at will, while the others drive as if they're in qualifying.

 

[Ardius]

True, I suppose with the field as it is, being so competitive, that every team has a chance every race so they all try.
But still, I imagine Bourdais, for example, perhaps turned his engine down at the final stages of the race at least.

I think its something for the lower teams to consider in their championship strategy, the engines are certainly going to come into play at the end.

 

[The Outlaw]

Just got done watching the race...well there's still 10 laps left, but I wonder who could possibly win BLAH...

On another note...what the hell is up with Barichello's destruction derby like driving? All season long he's been driving his damn car like it's a 50cc go kart with bumper guards all around. What a fool! I have very little respect for him at this point after seeing the lack of regard he has shown when attempting a pass. LH used to pull some aggresive moves in the past, but they usually worked out in a beautiful way. Most of Rubens attempted passes this season have usually ended up with him driving right into someones rear tires as if he purposely had spikes on his front wing. Maybe I should make a highlight reel of all of the crap he has pulled so far

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

What was the deal with all the Prius commercials? No thanks

Next race is in 2 weeks, crossing fingers, anybody but Button

 

[Ardius]

Well of all the drivers, (and it has been mentioned a lot by the BBC team, who all know Rubens well), Rubens is the most fragile emotionally and I imagine he got pretty filled with rage about screwing up his start so badly, just like Australia where he also made much contact.

When he feels good, Rubens is just as good as and probably better than Jenson, but whenever he feels he's lost it in anyway or feels a bit of anger he just completely loses it.
I think perhaps its a little because he is the last of the old era of drivers who were no where near as professional and corporate. Even people like Damon Hill had bad moments like Rubens is now.

Fortunately for Rubens, the next track is generally his best, so he should by all means be on pole in 2 weeks time. But then, I guess he thought that in Australia (and it certainly looked that way) until Jenson pulls these flaming hot laps out of no where.

 

[The Outlaw]

Well of all the drivers, (and it has been mentioned a lot by the BBC team, who all know Rubens well), Rubens is the most fragile emotionally and I imagine he got pretty filled with rage about screwing up his start so badly, just like Australia where he also made much contact.

When he feels good, Rubens is just as good as and probably better than Jenson, but whenever he feels he's lost it in anyway or feels a bit of anger he just completely loses it.
I think perhaps its a little because he is the last of the old era of drivers who were no where near as professional and corporate. Even people like Damon Hill had bad moments like Rubens is now.

Fortunately for Rubens, the next track is generally his best, so he should by all means be on pole in 2 weeks time. But then, I guess he thought that in Australia (and it certainly looked that way) until Jenson pulls these flaming hot laps out of no where.

Well Rubens must not feel good very often then, judging by his performances this season in a dominant car He's a good number 2...but I feel that's all he will ever be, especially given the caliber of drivers in F1 NOWADAYS 💡

 

[NapoleonMikey]

glad to see massas doing alot better now but still the car needs improvment. also sad to see vettle not get the win this weekend. looked like he had the pace to win but not the strategy.

oh well all i know is i hate FOX airing F1 races because 45 mins of coverage where wasted by emergency weather annoucment for a tornado warning nowhere close to my area. and then they cut out most of the post race stuff. never again will i watch F1 on fox.

 

[daan]

I have to go out today so i am going to miss the race. Reminding you guys, NO SPOILERS!!!!!!!

The no spoiler rule is only in place for thread titles. Spoilers can be made in the thread itself, so if you don't want to know that Button won from Webber and Vettel, then don't visit the thread. 💡

 

[Ardius]

Well Rubens must not feel good very often then, judging by his performances this season in a dominant car He's a good number 2...but I feel that's all he will ever be, especially given the caliber of drivers in F1 NOWADAYS 💡

What, you mean being a solid 2nd place in the championship? Rubens has done decent I think, good enough to be leading the championship if Jenson was still racing like he did in 2008. I mean, most of Ruben's mistakes this season have been due to mechanical failures of some kind and his driving.
He was in for a win at Barcelona until the safety car made his 3-stop strategy a dud.

Its very sad to see people write him off every season as "that perrenial number 2 driver". I don't feel thats fair to his talent that he has shown over the years but the man has a none-too strong head on him and unfortunately he suffers something similar to Nigel Mansell I think, although not in the same way - where if he feels his teammate has the upper hand, he loses confidence (though for Mansell this was because of an inferiority disorder).

Make Rubens number 1 and give him some luck, and I he would beat Jenson or at least challenge him every race. But as it is, he's lost out massively and he's effectively screwing himself over by getting emotional about it. I hope he sorts his head out and focuses on the job at hand, Jenson isn't beyond his abilities.

Its funny that pre-2000, he was seen as a great driver who never got a decent chance at a top team, beating or equalling all his teammates and shining at several races with mediocre cars. But now, 9 years later after being under a driver who was obviously better for 5 of them, he is considered only good enough to be 2nd driver. Rubens is easily the equal of Jenson and many other drivers this year, he isn't in the best of the best with Hamilton, Alonso and co, but he isn't a Fisichella either.

 

[Famine]

Next race is in 2 weeks, crossing fingers, anybody but Button

Bit harsh, considering it's his home grand prix and all that.

Don't you think he deserves it?

 

[Ardius]

I'm undecided about whether I want Rubens or Jenson to win, Jenson because home grand prix and all.
But Rubens because its his strongest track, and should be his best chance to beat Jenson. He also deserved a win a while ago now and we need a proper title fight to keep the interest.

If Rubens screws up at Silverstone, I think he has missed his chance to win a race without Jenson messing up somewhere.

 

[Danny]

The no spoiler rule is only in place for thread titles. Spoilers can be made in the thread itself, so if you don't want to know that Button won from Webber and Vettel, then don't visit the thread. 💡

As long as you don't give away the spoilers about Mothra and Rodan battling in the sky above turn three, I think it'll be fine.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Bit harsh, considering it's his home grand prix and all that.

Don't you think he deserves it?

Well since he's dominating, in my interest a hard-fought 2nd is the best I'm hoping for him.

 

[BMfan]

How about everybody gets a Brawn BG001 with a Mercedes engine? Then the guy at the front is truly the quickest.

have to agree with you there,i have always thought that would be the best way to find out who is the quickest driver.

 

[boiltheocean]

How about everybody gets a Brawn BG001 with a Mercedes engine? Then the guy at the front is truly the quickest.

That would be A1GP then.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Can't argue with the great Blackadder, but I do think your needlessly arrogant replies at him kind of backfired. Light fuel being a requirement to reach Q3 is an obvious requirement.

I kind of meant light in comparison to everyone else. Of course you need low fuel to set a competitive time, but because the R29 struggles, Alonso needs to run with even less to get the same results as everyone else and avoid the Q2 axe.

 

[Stevisiov]

Just got done watching the race...well there's still 10 laps left, but I wonder who could possibly win BLAH...

On another note...what the hell is up with Barichello's destruction derby like driving? All season long he's been driving his damn car like it's a 50cc go kart with bumper guards all around. What a fool! I have very little respect for him at this point after seeing the lack of regard he has shown when attempting a pass. LH used to pull some aggresive moves in the past, but they usually worked out in a beautiful way. Most of Rubens attempted passes this season have usually ended up with him driving right into someones rear tires as if he purposely had spikes on his front wing. Maybe I should make a highlight reel of all of the crap he has pulled so far

Pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly.

I am extremely glad Rubens walked away with no points, after the show he put on today.

Like you said LH passes last season where aggressive much the same ( and I am still not happy about the move on Glock at Monza) but even his passes which I would consider down right crazy sometimes, showed much more finesse than what the experienced Barichello showed today. I am not going to sit here and say he doesn't have Hamilton's overtaking ability (although it would be hard to argue on this seasons performance) but if its not his ability to overtake then it certain is his patients which is a major issue, he may be faster but there is a time and a place to overtake, and Rubens really should know that by now. Seriously

If a driving style showed someone's emotions then Barichello's would certainly show desperation, but even then, I feel there is no excuse for his driving today. The car suits Button's driving style and not his, its about time he came to terms with it. The sooner Button has tied up the championship the better, because at least there wont be the same desperate moves from Barichello. I don't want to see him driving like this again. Call it entertaining, it wouldn't have been for Kovelinen or Sutil had he taken them out the race.

Okay that was a big rant, but I was really disappointed in him today. It's Button's championship now, I just hope Vettel can snatch second.

I kind of meant light in comparison to everyone else. Of course you need low fuel to set a competitive time, but because the R29 struggles, Alonso needs to run with even less to get the same results as everyone else and avoid the Q2 axe.

I don't understand what you mean by this, are you suggesting Renault ran lighter than everyone else because they where desperate?

That wouldn't make sense because everyone wants to run Q2 on fumes. The fact that Alonso made it back to the pits suggests Renault didn't cut corners. I am not kidding by that either, if you made everyone run an extra lap than planned at the end of Q2 you would probably find all the cars stopped on track with no fuel let with the tank, so unless Renault got the Pipettes out to make that extra thousandth of a second, I don't see where your coming from sorry.

 

[Metar]

I kind of meant light in comparison to everyone else. Of course you need low fuel to set a competitive time, but because the R29 struggles, Alonso needs to run with even less to get the same results as everyone else and avoid the Q2 axe.

In these days, when the top ten are separated by half a second and the whole field by 1.5s, do you really believe anyone would risk running Q2 with anything other than fumes? Some run two laps consecutively because that's when the tyres work best - and that means fumes on the second run - but nobody, even McLaren and Ferrari in their domination days, ran any amount of fuel above the absolute minimum.

As a rule of thumb, everyone in Q2 runs on fumes and does the fastest laps of the weekend - or at least tries to. Considering how close Button was to missing Q3 at Monaco (only a tenth away as he failed to improve on his final attempt), not even Brawn can afford to relax and do a single lap, or one on decent fuel. A car that gets into Q3 is top-10 material, unless it's a qualifying-specialist, in which case it's top-12 material. The Renault today was points-material with a crappy strategy.

 

[Robin]

I really want to see someone else win for a change, yes hats of to Jenson etc but it would be nice if someone could up their game just slighty.

I really do think Vettel would have won the race if he hadnt slipped on the 1st? 2nd? lap. The way this is going its going to end up being boring again, the very thing the drastic rule changes were meant to address. Even Bernie said its gone all bloody predictable again.

Robin.

 

[Metar]

At least it showed Bernie that the medals idea would've pretty much sealed the championship at this point. Sure, it'll be tough-to impossible to beat Button anyway - but with a win-based system, it'd be nearly impossible even if Button sat out the next five races.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

anyone expect the FIA to step in on this and look for something to penalize brawn with to make things a little less boring. i can see it happening it always does this time it just wont be McLaren.

 

[Tired Tyres]

No. This is F1. It's a pure sport in that regard. The best car is supposed to win. That's the way motor sport is supposed to be.

 

[Ardius]

have to agree with you there,i have always thought that would be the best way to find out who is the quickest driver.

I think some miss the point here - this is a team sport, its all about how well each team puts together their car, driver, strategy and everything else. All the drivers are good, some better than others but no one is truly terrible.

Also, the main reason I like F1 is because its more impressive to see a great driver take a rubbish car to good finishes than it is to see them use a spec car to overtake the whole field. And besides, if you want to see these drivers in spec cars, watch GP2, F2, F3, Formula Ford, Formula Renault, FPA, and so on.

This season is still enjoyable to me because its interesting to watch how the teams develop their cars to catch up, its great looking at the little details they change to the cars and at the moment 9 teams are battling for points - thats better than last year where at least Honda and Force India had no chance.
When was the last time the whole field was this competitive? As I posted earlier, the BGP001 isn't an invincible car but the team is bullet-proof. So in my opinion its wrong just to blame the dominance on just the car alone. If Brawn had the RB5 this season, I reckon we would still be seeing these results, perhaps a couple less wins/1-2s but still just as dominant.

 

[PeterJB]

I knew Button would win this one somehow. From now I am just going to assume that everything will work out perfectly for him and he'll come out nowhere every race and qualifying and steal victory/pole.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Imagine Button winning this championship, who'd ever guessed that a year back, or even two years back? I've only come to realize that now, it's a freagin+ Button!