2010 Korean Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by prisonermonkeys, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    Some of the carnage from Sundays race - I've never seen such digustingly dirty F1 cars:

    [​IMG]

    As usual, putting that Russian sponsorship money to good use :lol:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. albteman015

    albteman015

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    How do you know which cars are easy to drive and which aren't ?
     
  3. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    You can get a general idea from watching onboard footage as well as understanding the general characteristics of the cars (mechanical efficieny, aero characteristics, engine tractability, etc). Also, in the past few years the Renault has had great mechanical efficiency, compliance, and precision with the front end (despite lacking DF in the past few years) - watching Alonso's onboard footage from this year in the F10 compared to 09 or 08 you see how relatively easy the Renault was to drive and place around the track in order to extract the maximum potential (and IMO the R30 has just gotten that much better with the dramatic improvement in DF). With the Ferrari he always seems to make more correction to get the car placed perfectly, although the car has gotten quite a bit better throughout the year, it still doesn't look anything near as easy to drive nor nearly as tossible as the R30 and the same can be said for the MP4-25.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  4. Shaggy Alonso

    Shaggy Alonso

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    Ted Kravitz mentioned it in his after race report for the BBC, but i've found a written explanation by Martin Brundle:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9125998.stm
     
  5. niky

    niky Moderator

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    Merc's pace in this race was a real revelation as to what proper set-up can do for you... In qualifying and practice, I seem to remember Schumi's arms flailing all over the place. I' m surprised no one else tried it... as running on qualifying set-up was a real disaster for some... McLaren in particular. Until Lewis managed to get the tires to work in the later half, they were in big trouble... A combination of McLaren's troubles and Mercedes's set-up gave Rosberg that overtake... but, of course, it required Rosberg to be competent enough to pull it off.

    I often wonder how unwieldy this year's car is compared to the twitch-monsters that Kimi and Massa were driving a while back.
     
  6. daan

    daan Moderator

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    So technically, the gap between the red flag and the restart was one huge great big, 49 minute or so, pit stop?
     
  7. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    Sounds just like F1 2010...
     
  8. BlueFG2

    BlueFG2

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    I don't think it was "similar" at all. Remember Fernando had damage from Rubens crashing into him earlier. His car was pulling to one side. And he was also way down in the pack. I think he was fighting for one or two points. So, according to him, he was pushing like hell, to get more points. Webber was second, with a healthy car, and all he had to was hold station.

    Sure, any driver can make mistakes, but I just don't see Alonso binning it if he was driving Mark's car in that situation. Remember Alonso's drive in Malaysia. He had no engine braking. His gearbox would go into neutral when he downshifting, and yet he drove a decent race until his engine blew.

    Alonso, Hamilton, and maybe Kubica, are in a league of their own skill wise.
     
  9. Aldo

    Aldo

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    I am 90% sure I heard somewhere, be it on here or the BBC, that F1 cars don't utilise engine braking. They only downshift before the corner so that they are in the right gear for getting the most speed out of the corner.
    :tup:
     
  10. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    Welcome to gtplanet :) I don't remember Malaysia's events, but you are right about Alonso having a crippled car at Spa. I stand corrected on that one! :tup:
     
  11. Christian_C

    Christian_C Premium

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    I'm sorry but what?! are you seriously trying to say Alonso decided to prang his car off the wall harder than necessary to launch himself into the path of others?

    I know you all hate Alonso with a passion but some of the stuff that's been said is verging on out of line.
     
  12. granturismite

    granturismite

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    I'm not saying Alonso crashed on purpose, after all he was in a points position. It's just that his car ended up on the tarmac, when he should have had better control over the final resting position.

    He knew it was in a dangourous position. Look at him scarper away after the car stops. Fundamentally, it was a dangerous position for Alonso's Ferrari to end up in.
     
  13. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

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    I'm sorry but what do you expect with a car that had only 3 working on his wagon? It may ended up on a tarmac but the car was OFF the racing line, and no one had an accident or hit his car there.

    It's a procedure for a driver to leave the car immidiately after a crash, and at least he brake and stop there instead of Mark left his car rolling down the racing line and coming into the path of Nico Rosberg and initially took both of their races to the drain... He apologized to Nico afterwards so it should all be fine.

     
  14. Matti_Dude

    Matti_Dude

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    What are you on about? That's like saying Webber deliberately let his car crash in to Rosberg, It's just ridiculous.
     
  15. Wiegert

    Wiegert Premium

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  16. lpb-nissan-gt-r

    lpb-nissan-gt-r

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    Anyone else find the camera angle shown on tv at the last corner scary? every time they would show someone going in the corner it looked like they where going straight in to the wall.
     
  17. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    That is utterly disgraceful :tdown: Does he honestly think Mark Webber would risk his own life and those of his fellow sportsmen just to spoil one of their results?

    What a stupid Berger :rolleyes:
     
  18. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    :lol: Anything's possible - and I'm sure Berger has a better idea of the mindset (and what they'll risk) of a F1 driver than any of us onlookers. When you're as close as Webber to becoming a Formula 1 WDC (after all his years in F1) you can become a pretty desperate man...
     
  19. Wiegert

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    He couldn't have seen what was coming his way, he would have been right on the racing line if his car had stopped near the wall that he hit. It was an accident with no malicious intent on any other driver.
     
  20. Alex.

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    To be honest it is believable. At that speed all Webber had to do was feather the brake and it'd have stopped the car fully.
     
  21. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    He'd better have more than just 'driver's intuition' as back-up for these outrageous claims, otherwise he'd either get a very convincing apology ready, or seek the services of a good lawyer. These kinds of comments are downright slanderous.
     
  22. Alex.

    Alex. Premium

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    It is Berger's opinion of what happened, surely he's entitled to that.
     
  23. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Typical of Gerhard to be so slow off the mark.
     
  24. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    He is entitled to his opinion, but by stating that opinion on the record, he'd better be able to back it up or he will face the consequences.
     
  25. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    "Couldn't have seen what was coming his way"? As soon as he hit the wall he was looking right toward Rosberg and did absolutely nothing to try and avoid rolling back onto the racing line Now I'm not one claiming for a fact that he intentionally tried to take out one of the contenders, but nor am I one naive enough to write off this possibility either. Everyone acts as if all the drivers except for Alonso & Schumacher (maybe a few others) are some type of saints who would never dream of doing such a thing :lol: Webber has always been a boarderline overly aggressive/unfair driver at times so I can't say it would be some big surprise if he did have bad intentions out of dire instinct (especially considering what is on the line for him).

    It's freedom of speech - I doubt he has any real consequence to face otherwise he wouldn't have said it. It's not like he's trying to make a comeback into F1 or is trying to be best friends with RB or Mark Webber in particular.
     
  26. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. You simply cannot accuse someone like this and get away with it if he turns out to be completely wrong. It's called defamation.
     
  27. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    Well, according to the definition of the word "defamation", the accusations (which were his opinion) must be able to be proven as false in order to prosecute in the court of law - which in this case there is no way to prove the validity of such, unless Webber did in fact try to hit the brakes to prevent from rolling back (with data to prove so), and to prevent the immanent collision.

    Personally I feel Gerhard's words are simply being blown out of proportion. Maybe RB and Mark will respond with a direct response to Gerhards accusations in the press, but other than that, I seriously doubt any legal action will be taken (or any other action would be taken that would really be of much "consequence" to Gerhard).
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  28. lpb-nissan-gt-r

    lpb-nissan-gt-r

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    If he would have stopped directly then, he would of been in the middle of the track, I can see his logic in letting it run across the track(to continue with the race) and he probably cannot see rosberg from his viewpoint.

    But as he had said when he spoke to the press he though he had cuaght the slide before the impact.
     
  29. Dodzzz

    Dodzzz

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    webber was busy trying to find the reset button, and then realize he was not in the simulator :sly:
     
  30. Ardius

    Ardius

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    I personally feel Webber perhaps failed basic racecraft - when in a slow spin you apply the brakes to make your movement more predictable.
    I don't think he steered (or rather didn't steer) on purpose to move back onto the track - that again is a basic driving technique to avoid damaging your hands/wrists/arms by not holding onto the steering wheel during impacts. However, he could have applied the brakes fully at least during the initial impacts and after it.

    I'm willing to give Webber the benefit of the doubt though, the impact or spin may have been so surprising he simply forgot or was in shock that he only realised he should hit the brakes when he was already going back across the track. In which case he was possibly correct to not apply the brakes and stop on the racing line. He may not have expected the car to turn like that too, as he couldn't see all the suspension damage from where he sits.

    Even so though, stopping in the middle of the track is more predictable to the immediate driver behind but not so much for the rest of the pack. I think Rosberg was also partly to blame as he also failed basic racecraft rules by not aiming for where Webber was, instead he tried to go around Webber when he was still moving. But again, its easy to make this mistake and it happens all the time in other racing. Particularly with the time scales involved here.

    50/50 I guess, it depends on what Webber was thinking, which we will never know. If he was letting the accident unfold and then deciding whether to hit the brakes or not, he was at fault (he should have hit the brakes and stuck to the right hand side of the track). If he was in shock briefly and couldn't/didn't react in time that braking would help then he wasn't at fault. I don't think he chose to delibrately ram Rosberg or whoever came up behind...it wouldn't surprise me but I don't think Webber is that crazy. He runs the risk of the car hitting him directly in the side and launching over his head but then again, people don't think things through like that in high-adrenaline situations. And when a championship is at stake, some people are willing to risk quite a lot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010