2010 Pontiac sports truck

[Joey D]

No they aren't delivering what people want, if people wanted this we would have never gotten rid of the El Camino. There is a small group of people that want this and there is a slightly bigger group that says this is cool but will never buy it. This is the exact same thing that happened with the SSR and that failed miserably.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Well shoot me down. The SSR wasn't quite a sports car, and it sacrificed praticality to be what it was. The G8 ST is a sports car, albeit a very practical one. Say there is a Motocross rider who has a thirst for speed with cars also. The Ute can take his bike, and be a weekend track warrior. This will appeal to those people. Say there is a plumber who hasto cart a lot of tools and pipes around on his job but wishes he could also have a sports car as a hobby. The Ute will appeal to these people. Then there are people (like me) who want a Ute because of an unexplainable passion for a fast Ute. Like a Coupe, but cheaper than most others, and still has room to fit groceries in for when I get a house. (Plus Utes are an Australian icon- for me that plays a part too)

 

[Joey D]

Yes it appeals to some people, I didn't say that it wouldn't, but the market is so small for something like this the sales will be pathetic. The Subaru Baja was more or less the same thing, a sporty car/truck thing and it didn't sell at all. People that need trucks will always just buy the truck since it's a symbol of machoism here in America.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Ah, but they see the G8 as a truck. And as I've said before, the Baja just doesn't compare to this, not in the slightest. I think the market will be larger than you realise.

 

[JCE]

Newsflash nd 4 holden: not all Americans are the dumb rednecks you make them out to be. A portion of them are, as well as a portion are mindless idiot lemmings. But they as a whole aren't like that. I think they are knowlegable enough to buy this knowning its a sports truck--something that the SSR failed so miserably at. And not to mention this is more of a cruiser than a utility truck. HOWEVER, it CAN and WILL be used as a truck. You can haul some appliances, some lumber, some sand, and whatever else your project requires to a point in the bed. And as long as you can tow 3,000~3,500lbs you can tow a small boat or some jet skis, which is what most consumers will use it for (at least around here). The key reason this will succeed with 1500 production units a year (if they dont mass produce/import them) will be solely because of everyone who owned an El Camino, Ranchero, and even the Subaru Baja will want one.

And also less we forgot this is something new and different, Americans at the moment are JUMPING ALL OVER new and exciting things. The Astra, Aura, G8, CTS, Fusion, Focus, Edge, and the Lincoln clones are selling like hotcakes. Americans WANT new stuff. Hell, I've seen THREE Smart cars around here--and by around here I mean literally in Denton county within a 15 mile radius. So saying "Americans don't deserve this" or something there about is just wrong and insulting to them.

 

[YSSMAN]

This is the exact same thing that happened with the SSR and that failed miserably.

The SSR failed because it was catering to an extremely small market, and furthermore, GM managed to fudge up what was otherwise a good idea. Using the Trailblazer chassis with a Tahoe engine didn't give the sporty looks of the SSR any credibility, and consequently even when the rather-awesome LS2-powered SSRs with 6-speed manuals showed up... Only few cared.

With the Ute, it doesn't matter if they sell or not. GM won't lose a ton of money if it fails, and if it does well, they stand to gain a bunch of money. They want to see if it will work or not in the US. If it does, "Good job mates!" and if it does not "Better luck next time!"

The simple, honest FACT of the matter is that something has to be done about the BOF trucks that GM offers. Too much of their profit is dependent on it, and with the market shrinking as gas prices climb, people are going to look for an alternative vehicle with similar amounts of utility... Preferably with less of an ecological footprint.

So why get so angry about it? Why condemn it as an automatic failure?

I personally think that this concept has legs here in the US. Its "cheap" by comparison to a full-size truck, its capable, its rather attractive, and does everything a car would otherwise do without much of a problem. I really think the only issue is that it doesn't have four doors.

BUT, it is not a good idea to write this off as an instant-success either...

The simple fact here is that light-duty trucks and crossovers have an extremely mixed track record here in the US. Generally speaking, I think the only exceptions to that rule are the Honda Ridgeline and the El Camino (well, Ranchero too) itself. Granted, there is a HUGE gap in what had happened there, but they catered to a market that wanted a little car and a little truck, and they got both.

Like I've said before, the FAIL points on the G8 ST will likely be the lack of a V6 option and the fact that its only a two-seater coupe. Add another row of seats and a pair of doors, I think it would do a lot better.

Again, this is a low-impact introduction for Pontiac. Shipping 5000 of them over a year with G8 grilles and interiors that they'd otherwise be making will not cost GM any extra money, and consequently, it won't hurt as much if the Ute tanks.

No need to get your panties in a bunch over it...

Hell, people complain about GM NOT taking chances, then they go out and do it, and people complain. What happens if Ford does it too? Are we going to complain as well?

 

[JCE]

What happens if Ford does it too? Are we going to complain as well?

*points to sig*

I won't complain, bring on the EcoBoost!

 

[Tornado]

I agree that it is mostly much adoo about nothing. My problem is that it very easily could have been made an actual sales success with very little modification. I disagree with Joey on that point. I think there is a market for car based pickups, simply because most truck manufacturers have packed up and left the segment (including the ones that killed the segment in the first place). The problem is that you need to market them correctly (which the Subaru Baja was not), and GM badging it as a Pontiac ruined the arguably great chance the ST had at actually being successful.
Its more of the shame of a missed opportunity than anger at GM for selling it.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think the only reason why they went down the Pontiac road with it is because its supposed to be a "sports car" with a truck bed. Given that Pontiac is now supposed to be the performance brand that they've been marketing it as for the past 20 years, I suppose it makes sense.

I don't think there is any way around the fact that it would probably sell two to three times better as a Chevrolet, but the problem is, they've already got two trucks. It wouldn't fit well into the GMC catalog either (however, the Crewman or OneTonne may do it just fine), and well, nobody else could really take it either.

We'll see what happens. I doubt GM is counting on it being an outright sales success, but, if the concept has traction, I wouldn't be surprised to see others try to pull it off. There are already rumblings about a forthcoming Volkswagen Ute (may/may not come to America), and there are the obvious Ford models (sold in Mexico) as well.

 

[Tornado]

I think a Saab Ute would be so incredibly out of nowhere that people would buy it just to think what the hell was going on when GM conceived it. Or not, because it is a Saab, but still.

I think a new Caddy would be pretty awesome, but I am unsure as to how it would fit with VW's still sorta role as mini Audis. Also, since we are talking about completely absurd ideas, I want a Taurus pickup. With EcoBoost.

 

[buickgnx88]

Hey, maybe it could be a Buick! It could be marketed to people who want a luxury pickup, but don't want a full-size half-ton.

 

[Keef]

Wow, I just spotted this thread.

So, do any of you actually think this thing is going to sell? Seems to me a lot like the Subaru Baja, and it didn't sell worth a crap despite being all-weather, AWD, and a four seater. This Pontiac has no interior storage, a big uncovered bed, and a chassis that probably can't support much weight, unlike the Canyon and Colorado. Which can be had with four doors...

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Wow, I just spotted this thread.

So, do any of you actually think this thing is going to sell? Seems to me a lot like the Subaru Baja, and it didn't sell worth a crap despite being all-weather, AWD, and a four seater. This Pontiac has no interior storage, a big uncovered bed, and a chassis that probably can't support much weight, unlike the Canyon and Colorado. Which can be had with four doors...

We've already discussed that this can't be compared to those trucks (I have anyway). This has to be a success or fail for its own reasons, not because of what others have tried in the past.

 

[Eric.]

*points to sig*

I won't complain, bring on the EcoBoost!

DID YOU SEE THAT RANCHERO GO!!?!!?




Sorry, I had to.

 

[YSSMAN]

Wow, I just spotted this thread.

So, do any of you actually think this thing is going to sell? Seems to me a lot like the Subaru Baja, and it didn't sell worth a crap despite being all-weather, AWD, and a four seater. This Pontiac has no interior storage, a big uncovered bed, and a chassis that probably can't support much weight, unlike the Canyon and Colorado. Which can be had with four doors...

To answer your questions from an education GM stance:

- It won't sell in particularly high numbers, well below 10K per year. My guess is that they'll import 5000 or so a year and get through the majority of them

- There is enough storage for regular-cab folks, the bed will carry as much as a full-size truck

- The chassis won't support as much as a BOF truck, but it comes close to the Colorado/Canyon, and thats good-enough for me

- Four door model is coming, for GMC though...

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

To answer your questions from an education GM stance:

- It won't sell in particularly high numbers, well below 10K per year. My guess is that they'll import 5000 or so a year and get through the majority of them

- There is enough storage for regular-cab folks, the bed will carry as much as a full-size truck

- The chassis won't support as much as a BOF truck, but it comes close to the Colorado/Canyon, and thats good-enough for me

- Four door model is coming, for GMC though...

And I'm not educated? You just remember that I know all about Holden Utes and understand the passion for them.

 

[Prosthetic]

Hey, maybe it could be a Buick! It could be marketed to people who want a luxury pickup, but don't want a full-size half-ton.

But that would mean it would have to be ugly!!! Sorry but Buicks design team isn't my cup of tea. The classic Buicks are badass, but recently they seem to be quite ugly, and a bit overpriced.

We've already discussed that this can't be compared to those trucks (I have anyway). This has to be a success or fail for its own reasons, not because of what others have tried in the past.

How can one fail be different from another? If it fails, it's because not a large crowd is attracted to it. Personally speaking I think it's a awesome idea to bring Ute's to the US, but living in one of the more populated areas of the US, and being damn close to 2 awesome race tracks. It just wont sell. If it will sell anywhere, it will be in GM dominated Michigan, but then again they are crazy.


In America sporty pick-up related pick-ups just don't appeal to people here. Everyone I know that has a pick-up uses them for construction, and hauling large objects, jobs that a Ute just can't compete in. Even in the more rural areas of America where about 5/7 vehicles are a pick-ups doing a job. America isn't the hick ville that a lot of people think and make it out to be. And please no one mention Mr. Clarkson's view on America, because what he said about it is totally wrong. I mean look how well Toyota is doing selling there now ugly and crappy cars.

 

[Sniffs]

the point was made here, that everyone shouyld keep in mind

when americans think truck, they think f series/Siverado/sierra/Ram...and occasionaly Avalanche

Dakota, s dimes, colorado and canyon, ranger/B...these are all more personal use truck, with one person in them.
there's allready rumors floating about that the Ranger is for the axe. GM should take the cue and throw Colorado and Canyon in with them. I'm sorry, but there's no need for a "personal use" truck anymore. for proof, look at the Tundra (which swelled into a full size with heavy duty pretentions because that's what working guys TOLD them they wanted), Titan, even Honda's cave in attempt Ridgeline.

remember, pickups for twenty years were a substitute for the muscle cars that the insurance companies and OPEC denied americans! american vehicles are almost entirely about power. this is why europe=Fail (outside of German hot rods and exotics), why automatics=Slushboxes=fail, why front drive = fail. untill the generations change completely (IE the Baby Boomers have all croaked, and half of Gen X has retired), THEN america might be interested in something tiny, curvy, and fuel efficent.

with apologies in advance to anyone over 48 (gen X is listed as starting at 1961!)

 

[Joey D]

Most Americans don't care whether their vehicles are front wheel drives with automatics, especially if they are a baby boomer. This is why cars like the Camry sell.

 

[Sniffs]

then why are the baby boomers the ones prodding the return of the muscle car?

* at the thought of the new camaro*
i wish.

the Camry is what their WIVES make them buy.

 

[JCE]

the Camry is what their WIVES make them buy.

DING DING DING DING!!!!!!! We have a WINNAR!!!!

 

[Keef]

To answer your questions from an education GM stance:

- It won't sell in particularly high numbers, well below 10K per year. My guess is that they'll import 5000 or so a year and get through the majority of them

- There is enough storage for regular-cab folks, the bed will carry as much as a full-size truck

- The chassis won't support as much as a BOF truck, but it comes close to the Colorado/Canyon, and thats good-enough for me

- Four door model is coming, for GMC though...

So I suppose it'll be kinda like a better looking SSR with some actual balls.

And I'm not educated? You just remember that I know all about Holden Utes and understand the passion for them.

Do you think our American reviewers are going to complain about a lack of bed usability? We come from the land of F-350s, so if it has a better it had better be able to use it. The old Lincoln Blackwood got bashed by everyone for its carpeted bed (I loved the carpet and thought it quite luxurious) and its low payload capacity. The SSR had fancy wood that nobody wanted to scratch, and another low payload capacity. I suppose the El Camino did well, but did people actually use them for anything?

 

[JCE]

Also, since we are talking about completely absurd ideas, I want a Taurus pickup. With EcoBoost.

I can't believe I missed this the first time. But, yea a Taurus Ute would be freaking god. I would want one.

DID YOU SEE THAT RANCHERO GO!!?!!?




Sorry, I had to.

I don't have the space in my sig for more quotes--damn 6 line limit--but still yours was definately funny.

the point was made here, that everyone shouyld keep in mind

when americans think truck, they think f series/Siverado/sierra/Ram...and occasionaly Avalanche

Dakota, s dimes, colorado and canyon, ranger/B...these are all more personal use truck, with one person in them.
there's allready rumors floating about that the Ranger is for the axe. GM should take the cue and throw Colorado and Canyon in with them. I'm sorry, but there's no need for a "personal use" truck anymore. for proof, look at the Tundra (which swelled into a full size with heavy duty pretentions because that's what working guys TOLD them they wanted), Titan, even Honda's cave in attempt Ridgeline.

remember, pickups for twenty years were a substitute for the muscle cars that the insurance companies and OPEC denied americans! american vehicles are almost entirely about power. this is why europe=Fail (outside of German hot rods and exotics), why automatics=Slushboxes=fail, why front drive = fail. untill the generations change completely (IE the Baby Boomers have all croaked, and half of Gen X has retired), THEN america might be interested in something tiny, curvy, and fuel efficent.

with apologies in advance to anyone over 48 (gen X is listed as starting at 1961!)

You're forgetting one important thing about "pickup trucks" in America. The Baja, Ridgeline, Sport Trac, Avalanche (not so much), and one more I'm neglecting (?) are selling because they offer something a normal truck doesn't. A better ride and some-sort of X factor that makes them "cool" in the eyes of the buyer. They are pickups without BEING pickups. Does that make sense? Because it does to me. I may hate the Ridgeline with every atom in my body but it does serve a legitimate purpose. If the buying public buys that hunk of crap they will love the G8 Ute.

*edit*
And while I'm at it let me state this.

A car + pickup truck bed = epic genius. I think EVERY manufacturer needs one. How awsome would a Passat Ute or what about an Altima Ute? I think its brilliant.

 

[Prosthetic]

or what about an Altima Ute? I think its brilliant.

Dude, screw the Altima Ute. Nissan listen, make a GT-R Ute with a billion horsepower. Now. I'll take it in black.

 

[YSSMAN]

And I'm not educated?

I didn't mean to cut you down by it, I was meaning from the insider perspective. I'd say that you, TopHat and I are the three who likely know the most about GM's stuff. However, I tend to study more of what happens here than anything else.

In general though, I care too much about all of the American companies. VW too. I'm trying to balance it out as of late, but of course, GM still sits atop my stuff.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I didn't mean to cut you down by it, I was meaning from the insider perspective. I'd say that you, TopHat and I are the three who likely know the most about GM's stuff. However, I tend to study more of what happens here than anything else.

In general though, I care too much about all of the American companies. VW too. I'm trying to balance it out as of late, but of course, GM still sits atop my stuff.

You probably (almost certainly) do know more than I do about GM and the industry and how things work. I just know Utes really well, plus a bit about eveything else.

 

[Prosthetic]

You probably (almost certainly) do know more than I do about GM and the industry and how things work. I just know Utes really well, plus a bit about eveything else.

Have you ever posted without saying Ute?

 

[buickgnx88]

Well he owns a ute, thus he'd talk about one in every post!

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Have you ever posted without saying Ute?

Not in this thread, this thread about Pontiac's Ute

 

[Omnis]

Hey, they could call it the brUTE.