2010 Singapore Grand Prix

Anes
I shouldn't generalise, but timeattack07gt, your opinion is what I'd expect from an American culture filled with NASCAR. Nowhere in circuit racing do you need to be fair to the guy on the outside. Who passed that Virgin and forced him wide? Hulkenberg? It's the same deal.
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What you said is what I'd expect from a big-headed jackass (and that's me staying within the AUP).

See how that works? :rolleyes:
 
interludes
It's not nerves. It's a lack of discipline.
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Well neither you or me are the ones to say exactly what it is with any authority. Also, controlling your nerves and staying focused and calm are an aspect of being disciplined (at least IMO).
 
Terronium-12
What you said is what I'd expect from a big-headed jackass (and that's me staying within the AUP).

See how that works? :rolleyes:
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astrosdude91
Ugh, SPEED Channel. We don't care about NASCAR! Show the Post race press coverage already!
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GTPorsche
Yeah. I'm disappointed about this as well.

I guess America's national racing series is more important than the world's best racing series.
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Actually it's perfectly reasonable to assume Americans feel it is unsportsmanlike to move over on someone in a corner because it's hugely frowned upon in NASCAR. Overreact at me much?

@ timeattack07gt, while you may feel it's unfair, it really isn't. Everyone has been taught to race like this from go-karts and everyone accepts that it's not a problem. Maybe on a casual club meet then yeah I'd be pissed if someone forced me wide, but come on man - this is for a WDC.
 
Anes
@ timeattack07gt, while you may feel it's unfair, it really isn't. Everyone has been taught to race like this from go-karts and everyone accepts that it's not a problem. Maybe on a casual club meet then yeah I'd be pissed if someone forced me wide, but come on man - this is for a WDC.
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And you act like I haven't been fully aware of that from the get go :odd: Also, racing etiquette and things in general are a bit different in a go-kart vs. an open wheel F1 car to say the least. You don't just go around driving people off the track or into barriers, risking wheel to wheel contact with an open wheel car, expecting them to get out of the way because in your head you can stay on the racing line at all times (unless you're as ruthless as Senna or Schumacher :sly: :lol:)

My final 2 cents - And no, I'm not asking you to agree with me or correct my opinion. I just think it's a rather laughable that the stewards allow a driver on the inside line to blatantly run the driver on the outside line off track (particularly when they are wheel to wheel) as an easy way out for the driver on the inside line to maintain position. IMO it's almost as laughable as if Hamilton were to have had completely cut-off Webber's inside line (knowing he was there) expecting him to hop the inner curbing and go off track (to avoid contact) as an easy way to keep him at bay. IMO, at a certain point it becomes against the spirit of what circuit racing should be about and generally doesn't promote good clean racing.

My 2 cents.
 
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Antti-san
Yeah, I just read about it! :eek:


I don't think you can really compare those two situations. Neither Massa nor Webber plowed into Hamilton, Hamilton simply tried too hard in both cases IMO.
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No but the cars on the inside had the same situation although different drivers with different outcomes. Making both the cars on the inside line just trying too hard or purposely forcing their way through by hook or by crook.
 
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timeattack07gt
And you act like I haven't been fully aware of that from the get go :odd: Also, racing etiquette and things in general are a bit different in a go-kart vs. an open wheel F1 car to say the least. You don't just go around driving people off the track or into barriers, risking wheel to wheel contact with an open wheel car, expecting them to get out of the way because in your head you can stay on the racing line at all times (unless you're as ruthless as Senna or Schumacher :sly: :lol:)

My final 2 cents - And no, I'm not asking you to agree with me or correct my opinion. I just think it's a rather laughable that the stewards allow a driver on the inside line to blatantly run the driver on the outside line off track (particularly when they are wheel to wheel) as an easy way out for the driver on the inside line to maintain position. IMO it's almost as laughable as if Hamilton were to have had completely cut-off Webber's inside line (knowing he was there) expecting him to hop the inner curbing and go off track (to avoid contact) as an easy way to keep him at bay. IMO, at a certain point it becomes against the spirit of what circuit racing should be about and generally doesn't promote good clean racing.

My 2 cents.
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This is why I've been saying that Webber had the inside line so Hamilton could in no way be considered in front until after the corner. That's the way it is particularly in open wheelers. I get it's you opinion on racing ethics and this is why I mentioned NASCAR, but seriously, there is nothing wrong with it in any shape or form No one has complained about Hulkenberg forcing wide that Virgin about midway through the race. It wasn't investigated by the stewards nor was it even mentioned here.


Also, this is why I like Schumacher so much. Unless he was intentionally causing contact, he always left the tiniest fractions of room. He is ultra precise. The latest example was with Rubens :lol: I loved that move.
 
It was a racing incident but it was also Webber's fault. The two are not mutually exclusive and, though I was hoping for a penalty (he'd have placed behind Button, bringing the championship gap between the top five down to 19pt) and it would have been internally consistent for the stewards to give one, it's not a wrong decision to not give one.


In other news, Alonso completed his first Grand Chelem in F1 and the first Grand Chelem since Schumacher at Hungary in 2004.
 
The Webber and Hamilton incident was just a racing incident look at it from both cars on board if you look at it from Hamiltons car it looks like it was clearly Webbers fault but if you look at it from Webbers car it looks like it was clearly Hamiltons fault.
 
haitch40
The Webber and Hamilton incident was just a racing incident look at it from both cars on board if you look at it from Hamiltons car it looks like it was clearly Webbers fault but if you look at it from Webbers car it looks like it was clearly Hamiltons fault.
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And if you look at it as a whole, rather than just from one angle, you have a driver who has completed a pass - he is the full length of his car ahead of the car he's just passed - taking the racing line around a corner (out-in-out) being collected by a driver who sticks his car up the inside under braking.

Webber's fault but still a racing incident.
 
Famine
And if you look at it as a whole, rather than just from one angle, you have a driver who has completed a pass - he is the full length of his car ahead of the car he's just passed - taking the racing line around a corner (out-in-out) being collected by a driver who sticks his car up the inside under braking.

Webber's fault but still a racing incident.
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I feel a payback coming. Don't you? :sly: Specially if Hamilton gets out of the championship contention.
 
There's certainly a Schumacher/Barrichello in the works.

Interesting that the McLaren's suspension seems so comparatively weak. At Monza, Hamilton put his front-right in contact with Massa's back-left - Hamilton's broke (you'd expect it from a front though) and Massa's was fine. At Marina Bay, Webber put his front-right in contact with Hamilton's back-left - Hamilton's broke and Webber's was fine.

But then I suppose any manufacturer putting together a car for Webber (and Vettel) will try to ensure it has suspension that's strong under sudden lateral loads...
 
Famine
And if you look at it as a whole, rather than just from one angle, you have a driver who has completed a pass - he is the full length of his car ahead of the car he's just passed - taking the racing line around a corner (out-in-out) being collected by a driver who sticks his car up the inside under braking.

Webber's fault but still a racing incident.
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I'm quite glad that someone else spotted that Webber didn't have the "Racing" line - Lewis quite clearly was using that... and therefore Webber would've gone monsterly wide without the helpful buffer of McLaren...

C.
 
The way I see it Webber should have conceded (sp?) the corner, it was either that or contact and when these are the only options available, it is foolish to go for contact, even if a slight one (considering also what was at stake for him and who were the guys in P1, P2 and P5)

Anyway, he was extremely lucky yesterday. The "contact" not only didn't harm him (just), but it also worked in his favour (with the elimination from the race of another WDC candidate) but it could have been a totally different story, a story like the one LH lived at Monza. It could have been Webber out, LH carrying on. With interesting consequences to the WDC standings.

Anyway, great races by Alonso and Vettel, clearly in a class of their own. Pity we didn't actually see them fighting for position , but they were doing their fight for outright speed and it lasted the entire duration of the GP. Very impressive show!
 
yeti
I'm quite glad that someone else spotted that Webber didn't have the "Racing" line - Lewis quite clearly was using that... and therefore Webber would've gone monsterly wide without the helpful buffer of McLaren...

C.
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That was my impression too, Webber got the apex totally wrong. It seemed like he was playing too much Gran Turismo.
 
Famine
And if you look at it as a whole, rather than just from one angle, you have a driver who has completed a pass - he is the full length of his car ahead of the car he's just passed - taking the racing line around a corner (out-in-out) being collected by a driver who sticks his car up the inside under braking.

Webber's fault but still a racing incident.
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Not to quibble overly much, but the way I saw it was this:
1) Hamilton took advantage of traffic to pass Webber.
2) Lewis did not have a sufficient lead into the next corner in order to take a defensive line, i.e., guarding the inside.
3) Hamilton's line was in fact slightly wide - it appeared as though he was never going to apex.
4) Hamilton admitted later that he thought he gave Webber enough room. But he should have given him either much more - or better yet, authoritatively slammed the door. That he could do neither indicates the extreme vulnerablity of Hamilton in this situation.
5) Webber took a giant chance forcing the issue. Normally, F1 car front suspension gives way to rear. But this McLaren really appears as though it belongs more at a jewelery store than a race track.

Respectfully,
Dotini
 
While I agree in many respects, Hamilton had completed his move. He was the full length of his car ahead plus air.

Had the two arrived at the corner in that position without any overtaking occurring previously, we'd be talking about Webber steaming into an apex with no hope of stopping the car in time. Again.
 
Famine
While I agree in many respects, Hamilton had completed his move. He was the full length of his car ahead plus air.

Had the two arrived at the corner in that position without any overtaking occurring previously, we'd be talking about Webber steaming into an apex with no hope of stopping the car in time. Again.
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True.
 
Famine
While I agree in many respects, Hamilton had completed his move. He was the full length of his car ahead plus air.

Had the two arrived at the corner in that position without any overtaking occurring previously, we'd be talking about Webber steaming into an apex with no hope of stopping the car in time. Again.
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Brundle say's it all the time, 'he was driving into a wedge that was always going to disappear'. Webber was comitted at the point of arriving into the corner because it did look as though hamilton couldn't make the apex. He didnt, but he did go defensive and cut across webbers nose. Webber shouldnt of been there, and hamilton probably should of left a bigger margain for error. But thats racing drivers for you ;) I wouldnt have it any other way 👍

On a different note, I love night racing! Heikki's burning car looked awesome :lol:, and so did Schumacher's sparking front end! Loved watching all the cars bottom out over the bumps too.
 
Radracing
[/B]

I feel a payback coming. Don't you? :sly: Specially if Hamilton gets out of the championship contention.
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No Lewis Hamilton is not that sort of person to undertake such revengeful assignments, he will just try and score as much points as possible for the team, he may be significantly behind in the DC, but the constructors is still up for grabs for the Mclaren outfit.

Mark drove a very solid, workman like drive, he made no mistakes anywhere and was ruthless when under pressure, this is the kind of driving that may get him over the line this year:tup:
 
Famine
While I agree in many respects, Hamilton had completed his move. He was the full length of his car ahead plus air.
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Except from all the videos I have watched, Hamilton never completed his pass of Webber nor was he a full car length ahead. Hamilton was on the outside coming in to the corner, while Webber had the inside and the obvious advantage in that situation. Hamilton expected Webber to back off (which he had no reason to IMO) and thus took too an optimistic line through the corner causing a collision. But really, I wouldn't blame either driver.


Sorry for the awful music, this is the best video I could find. :embarrassed:
 
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Antti-san
Except from all the videos I have watched, Hamilton never completed his pass of Webber nor was he a full car length ahead.
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Watch between 0'22 and 0'24 (can't pin it down better than that). There is an instant where Hamilton's rear is clear, laterally, of Webber's front.
 
Well I must say this could very well be an extremely harsh lesson for Lewis by the time the end of the season comes around. He should have known a guy like Webber was going to take the oppurtunity up the inside though and should have left a bit more room to be safe. It's unfortunate for his sake :ill:

Anes
Yes but because he's on the outside he can never be considered 'in front of Webber'.
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Wasn't he on the "racing line" prior to corner entry though?
 
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