2011 Formula 1 Gran Premio Santander d'Italia

[Dennisch]

British folks favouring British drivers.

 

[Terronium-12]

Pretty much everyone on Twitter is flaming the BBC saying Vettel still cannot race wheel to wheel, opinions?

I think (myself previously included) everyone wants to see Vettel be a Schumacher, a Hamilton, an Alonso, or a Webber -- defensive, bold, and borderline cold when the need arises. That's not his strong suit, his strong suit is pace. He's had a few wheel-to-wheel encounters throughout the season and most were handled brilliantly.

He's only shown the propensity to buckle under pressure once and that was at Canada and the circumstances themselves are questionable.

 

[Demon Drone]

Pretty much everyone on Twitter is flaming the BBC saying Vettel still cannot race wheel to wheel, opinions?

While I'm sure he could and would be great at it we are never going to see it happen. It's not like he will ever have to with the current formula of cars. Red Bull has got it all figured out and everyone is still scratching their heads on how to make a car that can run with the RB7.

 

[Prince.M5]

Pretty much everyone on Twitter is flaming the BBC saying Vettel still cannot race wheel to wheel, opinions?

With that ''full of balls'' overtaking manoeuvre with Alonso, I have got to say this lad can race wheel to wheel... But so far he is best on creating a massive gap after the start/overtake. Obviously. No longer a crash kid

By the way, the Liuzzi's crash is going to put a lot of fixing bill on HRT... Which is not good at all.

 

[dhandeh]

Pretty much everyone on Twitter is flaming the BBC saying Vettel still cannot race wheel to wheel, opinions?

Today he showed he can overtake.

He starts most races from the front, so doesnt need to overtake. When he doesnt start from the front, you dont normally see him slicing through the field. Now why is this, does he want to ensure he finishes and not throw away points or his he willing to take risks to gain a few extra points, and maybe not finish at all.

I would say he can, but chooses generally not to, but them as mentioned he doesnt normally need to. I would like to see him, start from 22nd every now and then, not being 100 points in front in the championship and see what he does then, a bit like the other front runners have to.

British folks favouring British drivers.

One word. Troll.

 

[Alex.]

In my opinion he is not near the best of the wheel to wheel racers, but he is visibly improving this season, it annoys me greatly when people just slap it down completely that 'Vettel cannot overtake full stop'. I was discussing it with friends and they don't have that much of the negative opinion, twitter seems to be Button and Hamilton fanboys Vettel hatin'

 

[ECGadget]

Wish Schumi had the car to hold onto 3rd... Vettel had a typical race as usual. But this time round I will say that he had a strong qualifying AND that overtake with Alonso with fantastic. But that doesn't prove to me that he can race wheel to wheel... not consistantly anyway. Place him in 8th and tell him to fight up. If he can do that (And I am not saying he can't) then I'll rate him as one of the best drivers. But for now, I still feel it's more his car than him. BUT, nevertheless, congrats to him, and condolences to the family of Erin.

Michael Schumacher just pushed the limits of the law today... fantastic drive from him, I saw old Schumacher through most of that race...

 

[C-ZETA]

Liuzzi was just looking to overtake at the start but got a wheel on the grass and ended up all over the place and straight into Petrov and Rosberg.

 

[ZEROX]

Pretty much everyone on Twitter is flaming the BBC saying Vettel still cannot race wheel to wheel, opinions?

Losers can just keep whining.

 

[Dennisch]

One word. Troll.

Accept it. It's the truth, if Vettel couldn't overtake like the others, would he be in Formula 1? No he wouldn't.

 

[Sphinx]

Dhandes & Dennisch,
please don't ruin what has so far been a good F1 discussion.

 

[Dennisch]

Did I say something wrong then?

Vettel is the best, by far, and all the other teams have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[dhandeh]

Accept it. It's the truth, if Vettel couldn't overtake like the others, would he be in Formula 1? No he wouldn't.

If you read my post that you quoted from, I think that makes my opinion clear. He can, but doesnt or chooses not to.

As for Liuzzi, you would have thought with his experience, he shouldnt be trying things like that, on the first chicane at Monza.

Did I say something wrong then?

Red Bull Vettel is the best, by far, and all the other teams have a lot of catching up to do.

Fixed!

 

[homeforsummer]

My thoughts on the race:

Vettel - can't really fault his race today. Great hair-raising overtake on Alonso (who I think can be forgiven for squeezing him there - I suspect Vettel was completely out of his mirrors) and enough pace to keep ahead.

Button - Great racing again. Down to 7th at one point and once again proved himself the best overtaker in F1 to get back to 2nd.

Alonso - Liking him more and more. Ferrari's pace really trails off after half distance but he's clearly one of the quickest drivers on the grid.

Hamilton and Schumacher - fantastic battle, loved every second. Two very aggressive drivers so neither can really complain about the other's moves.

Rest of the race? Quite a bit of overtaking today and a lot of it didn't even require KERS and DRS. An interesting race IMO, and still leaves Valencia as the only real disappointment this season so far.

Pretty much everyone on Twitter is flaming the BBC saying Vettel still cannot race wheel to wheel, opinions?

My opinion would to be to avoid feeding the trolls.

Vettel made a fantastic pass in that race but as he's at the front so often in races it's still difficult to claim he's right up there when it comes to outright passing ability - he's only needed to pass a handful of times in the whole season so far

I think Vettel needs a few more years in F1, preferably with some mistakes, so he can really prove himself able to fight in the midfield. As long as he's right at the top of the table every race then the argument is moot.

Vettel is the best, by far, and all the other teams have a lot of catching up to do.

Worth adding the caveat that he's in comfortably the best car.

Again, it's too early to say that Vettel is the best driver because we've not really seen him have to fight - and he's also made a few mistakes under pressure this season already too.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

It would take an incredible run from one of the contenders even if Vettel stopped racing this season.

I just hope that McLaren stop putting efforts in the current car primarily and mainly spend time putting efforts on concepts for the 2012 car which should also work with the 2011 so they can test parts out and concepts. They really need to get the car working without the EBD for next year as they could start the season 3rd fastest at best if they continue to maximise this years regulations.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Five world champions finish in the top five (12.5 between them). Has that happened before?

 

[ZEROX]

I think some forgot about that Torro Rosso winning in Monza while other top dudes 🤬 their race with the best car.

Come on, he's one of the best driver and get the best car. Stop whining you guys. I've to admitted others are good too but their car sucks bad compare to RBR.

Combination of both = Success.

 

[dhandeh]

It would take an incredible run from one of the contenders even if Vettel stopped racing this season.

I just hope that McLaren stop putting efforts in the current car primarily and mainly spend time putting efforts on concepts for the 2012 car which should also work with the 2011 so they can test parts out and concepts. They really need to get the car working without the EBD for next year as they could start the season 3rd fastest at best if they continue to maximise this years regulations.

Not just Mclaren, all the teams need to step it up. Ferrari need to sort out their hard tyre problems. Williams have been awful, Sauber havent progressed and HRT and Virgin might as well not bother!

 

[Dennisch]

Most of the drivers tend to take it a bit more easy as the championship is coming towards them, and that is the safest, yet more boring, way to become a champion.

 

[homeforsummer]

I think some forgot about that Torro Rosso winning in Monza while other top dudes 🤬 their race with the best car.

Come on, he's one of the best driver and get the best car. Stop whining you guys. I've to admitted others are good too but their car sucks bad compare to RBR.

Way to completely misinterpret my comment. No whining going on here

Plenty of drivers have won (or nearly won) races in bad cars before - Damon Hill almost won at Hungary in 1997 in an Arrows - as neither the quickest driver nor the quickest car.

Vettel is obviously a very good driver, but it's incredibly difficult to claim he's outright the best driver when he's in easily the best car. If you stick him in a Ferrari or McLaren and he's still beating everyone, or stick those drivers in a Red Bull then the comparison becomes very difficult.

As always with these discussions - it's important to avoid letting massive fanboyism get in the way of looking at things with a critical eye.

As it is, and as you actually say yourself, Vettel is one of the top drivers in F1 in comfortably the best car.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Not just Mclaren, all the teams need to step it up. Ferrari need to sort out their hard tyre problems. Williams have been awful, Sauber havent progressed and HRT and Virgin might as well not bother!

McLaren are the only team that don't seem to give in when they have more or less no chance of closing the gap back to mean enough for them to do so, for example the 2009 season. Ferrari are already pressing hard developing the 2012 car, the same with Mercedes.

I think there is a reason why a team of McLaren's stature has not won a constructors title for so many years. They have the capability to do so but they are always playing catch-up because they are probably the last to start developing the new car fully out of the top teams. McLaren the last few years seem to have a very fast car for the last race when they don't really need it anymore. Waste of resources in my opinion and I hope Whitmarsh says enough is enough and they switch more resources to next years car. However having said that, good thing is if they don't switch the resources by a large amount, they won't be as bad off in previous years as they scrapped the 2009 and 2010 car but they say the 2012 car will be an evolution of the 2011 one, obviously complying to the new regulations.

 

[ZEROX]

Way to completely misinterpret my comment. No whining going on here

Err, actually, i wasn't direct it to you.

I agree with you all the way. 👍

 

[homeforsummer]

Err, actually, i wasn't direct it to you.

I agree with you all the way. 👍

No worries, your comment just came after I'd said something about Vettel in the best car so I just assumed

 

[dhandeh]

Agreed, but with their sponsors, they need to be seen competing at the top in all races. Mclaren can win races, their drivers can win championships, but as you say, they do sacrifice a lot for the current season, without focussing on the next. Its a stick or twist scenario. This season though, they are so far behind Red Bull, they might as well stick.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Agreed, but with their sponsors, they need to be seen competing at the top in all races. Mclaren can win races, their drivers can win championships, but as you say, they do sacrifice a lot for the current season, without focussing on the next. Its a stick or twist scenario. This season though, they are so far behind Red Bull, they might as well stick.

They are more or less still going to remain in the ballpark if they stop developing the car as much to still win races. I think their sponsors would like to see them winning championships than being 2nd best more or less most of the time in the last decade. What worries me is their Silverstone performance and they are going to evolve this car so they will need to think hard why others are so much quicker without the exhaust blowing as much.

 

[ZEROX]

No worries, your comment just came after I'd said something about Vettel in the best car so I just assumed

Lol, that's okay.

Well, see you guys in two weeks time.

 

[Anghammarad]

If you take the Hamilton/Schumacher fight out of the equation that was actually the most boring race of the season so far. Well done by Vettel to win and a brilliant pass on Alonso. Well done also by Button who more and more is becoming the number one racer. Finely calculated overtakes boldly and smoothly executed. A good example for his teammate how it should be done. Alonso made a fabulous start and drove as good as he can. The car is just simply mediocre. I actually don't think that it is any better than the Mercedes.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If you take the Hamilton/Schumacher fight out of the equation that was actually the most boring race of the season so far. Well done by Vettel to win and a brilliant pass on Alonso. Well done also by Button who more and more is becoming the number one racer. Finely calculated overtakes boldly and smoothly executed. A good example for his teammate how it should be done. Alonso made a fabulous start and drove as good as he can. The car is just simply mediocre. I actually don't think that it is any better than the Mercedes.

I don't know where all this JB being a top driver comes from...not sure if this or last season is the first season people started watching F1, but some history reading on F1 shows that JB had good seasons before this. He's also a great driver just alot more smooth and patient. Hamilton need learn nothing from Button...his driving style works for him, but is just a more risky style. Why change to be like Button, when he is still winning races. The funny part is when he fails, he's stupid, yet when he makes a daring move with success everyone wants to say how brilliant it is...when it could have gone either way!!! Anyways, Vettel did a great job and doing what Alonso did not too long ago, even if he doesn't wrap it up in Singapore he'll do it in Japan. I'm not a Vettel fan but it is hard not to acknowledge his great skill, which he proved today.

 

[Feschka]

Poor excuses by Liuzzi after the crash, he said he'd been forced into the grass by Kovalainen. It appears he rather did everything by himself...
And got a five place grid penalty for Singapore. Funny guy, Vitantonio.

 

[spyrrari]

Poor excuses by Liuzzi after the crash, he said he'd been forced into the grass by Kovalainen. It appears he rather did everything by himself...
And got a five place grid penalty for Singapore. Funny guy, Vitantonio.

So he will start 29th?...



spy.