2011 Formula 1 Gran Premio Santander d'Italia

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Vettel made an unconventional strategy work. He was 20km/h slower than the fastest driver through the speed trap all weekend, and yet he was consistently setting the fastest lap times. It's easy to write Vettel's success off as being a direct result of the car, but Mark Webber hasn't had a chance to get a look in all season long. Which is pretty telling, if you ask me.

If you ask anyone else it is noted that they changed the gearing for the actual race and he said himself that he only took a risk with the speed trap really in Quali. Which means he upped the speed for the race. The car was obviously smoother through corners all around hence better sector two and three times through out the entire weekend. If your fast in just one sector you're not going to beat the guy that is faster in two of the three. McLaren's drivers throughout the race were setting fast laps times as well, especially at the end. As far as Mark goes, he's done fine just can't start and maybe the car doesn't suit him as well as last years, how do we know if RBR went with Vettel's suggestions more so than Mark. Just saying. Those drivers are greats cause the field was more even and they still made it look easy. If McLaren and Ferrari are close next year and Vettel wins the championship like last year then I think more will respect him.

 

[Famine]

Don't listen to the BBC's British driver bias, Schumacher did not make 2 moves.

Aside from the time he made two moves.

There is a difference between defending position and lining up for the next corner.

Yeah, and between Roggia and Lesmo 1 he moved to defending the inside line and then moved back to take the racing line - and then he did the same coming into Ascari on the same lap, moving to the centre of the track under the old circuit at Serraglio and then back onto the racing line. Once you've picked a line into a corner, you're not allowed to change it.

Schumacher's moves, while borderline in regards to that, was still seen as legal by he stewards. He didn't even go under investigation for it.

And yet isn't it odd that when Ross Brawn was asked if his twice-barked instruction to Michael to "leave room at Ascari" came as a result of contact from Charlie Whiting, the race director, he said "Yes" - after Martin Whitmarsh told Hamilton, in response to "I though you were only allowed one move." that "The FIA are aware.".

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

^^^ ALL that is pure ownage

Great job!!!

 

[niky]

Don't listen to the BBC's British driver bias, Schumacher did not make 2 moves. There is a difference between defending position and lining up for the next corner. Schumacher's moves, while borderline in regards to that, was still seen as legal by he stewards. He didn't even go under investigation for it.

Our service is STAR, not BBC. And it was pretty clear that Schumi was on the cutting edge of legality, when his team were frantically reminding him on the radio every few minutes to leave enough room on the outside when he pulled back onto the racing line to avoid being penalized for blocking and the Mclaren garage indicated that the FIA stewards were aware of the move.

Errh... tree'd by Famine. But yes, all the radio chatter points to an awareness that what Michael did was illegal, but they gave him a warning first and he didn't do it afterwards.

-

RBR managed to get it exactly right. They had a lower top speed than the guys who had their DRS open all through the straights during qualifying, but come race time, the difference really wasn't that substantial... you're not going to hit those same trap speeds in the race unless you get a tow and DRS activation, and that's what they gambled on.

 

[axletramp]

And it was pretty clear that Schumi was on the cutting edge of legality, when his team were frantically reminding him on the radio every few minutes to leave enough room...

I think it was quite telling that Ross Brawn sent the 'reminder' rather than his race engineer. The team clearly wanted Michael and the stewards to hear that they were aware of, and on top of, the situation.

 

[Submerged]

So win number 18 puts Sebastian Vettel on par with Kimi Raikkonen for 13th overall in the all time wins column. So if he wins the rest of the races this season (and we know this may very well happen), he'll be tied with Juan Manuel Fangio for 9th all time, and one behind Jim Clark and Niki Lauda. That's pretty big company, and only at the age of 24!

You have to remember in the olden days, especially with Fangio era, they only had 8 or 9 races in that one year.

Contrast that with now, 21 races a year and you'll see that Vettel's winning total is almost meaningless against the historical drivers.

 

[Small_Fryz]

I reckon that's never happened before. This season has 5 WC all still racing and that is very rare in itself. Webber or someone else has always got in there to ruin it so far this season.

There were 5 champions in most of the 1970 season (Stewart, Brabham, Hill, Surtees and Hulme) but they never managed a 1-5 either.

We'll definitely look back with some awe over the level of talent we have in F1 right now! Just think that six years ago the only present WC was Schumacher.

I agree, The level of competition in the last few years is just crazy.
Hopefully (doubtful) a few more teams are competitive next season!! would be great to see Schumacher battle it out for wins again.

Another crazy thought... If Schumacher sticks around any longer it wouldn't be impossible to see a young driver enter F1 who was born when Schumacher was racing in F1 at the beginning.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Back home after a few days away, just my quick notes:

Driver of the day - Jenson Button. After a poor start, and even after losing time due to the Webber/Massa incident ... an amazing race. My respect for Button has grown immensely (started when he moved to McLaren. He wanted to prove a point and no doubt he did it)

"Flawless drive" prize - Sebastian Vettel. Let's face it, it's not (just) the RBR. Just look where Webber is(n't). One other that earned a lot of respect from me this year.

"Doing better than the car logically allows" prize - Fernando Alonso - Just amazing. He shouldn't be there, but he is. Keeps all of them honest in a dog of a car.

"Mind games master" prize - Michael Schumacher. Made me remember the years I totally hated him. Now I look at those antics in an almost nostalgic way ...

"Juan Pablo Montoya isn't gonna pass me" prize - Lewis Hamilton. The receiving end ... never good to be there.

"Still not sure if the kid has what it takes" prize - Bruno Senna. Solid drive, points collecting, 4th fastest lap (soft tyres at the end helping). Still ... didn't blow me away. To be continued ...

 

[daan]

I agree, The level of competition in the last few years is just crazy.
Hopefully (doubtful) a few more teams are competitive next season!! would be great to see Schumacher battle it out for wins again.

As Brundle and DC were alluding to, it's not just that we have some great talented and quick drivers (Alonso, Button, Vettel, Hamilton, while in no particular order, are all at the very peak of the great driver list, with a supporting cast of Schumacher, Rosberg and Webber) but they're also very brave. Webber overtaking Alonso into Eau Rouge? Vettel overtaking Alonso on the outside of the Caurve Grande, partially on the grass? Button on the outside of Schumacher into Ascari?

 

[Sureboss]

I doubt Schumacher will overtake him in the standings, he's 115 points behind.

Pfft, I'm proud of that brain fade!

 

[axletramp]

...but they're also very brave. Webber overtaking Alonso into Eau Rouge? Vettel overtaking Alonso on the outside of the Caurve Grande, partially on the grass? Button on the outside of Schumacher into Ascari?

Modern safety standards meaning they're less likely to die if it goes wrong? I wonder if anyone would have been as brave week in, week out in the 70's or turbo days. I'm not saying anyone was less brave then, just that the modern equipment they're using perhaps takes some of the doubt away.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I don't know if anybodies posted this yet but here's James Allens strategy breakdown http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/...into-race-strategies-from-italian-grand-prix/

 

[Anghammarad]

Yeah, and between Roggia and Lesmo 1 he moved to defending the inside line and then moved back to take the racing line - and then he did the same coming into Ascari on the same lap, moving to the centre of the track under the old circuit at Serraglio and then back onto the racing line. Once you've picked a line into a corner, you're not allowed to change it.

I was always under the impression that a driver was entitled to make one move to defend and then was allowed to go back onto the racing line.

 

[Famine]

Yep. But you're not allowed to do it in a braking zone - it's classed as a dangerous manouevre to change lines once already in a braking zone. You're allowed to pick a line to defend your position for a corner, not change your line while braking.

 

[Alex.]

Less of this:

And more of this:

Lewis sees Vettel's finger and raises it with a fist:

How about one of these?

 

[tribolik]

Yep. But you're not allowed to do it in a braking zone - it's classed as a dangerous manouevre to change lines once already in a braking zone. You're allowed to pick a line to defend your position for a corner, not change your line while braking.

Much like Hamilton did with kobayashi on SPA for example...

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Modern safety standards meaning they're less likely to die if it goes wrong? I wonder if anyone would have been as brave week in, week out in the 70's or turbo days. I'm not saying anyone was less brave then, just that the modern equipment they're using perhaps takes some of the doubt away.

Just ask fans (like me) of the late Gilles Villeneuve, maybe too brave at times?

The safety technology today has saved many lives, that undoubtedly would have been lost in the 60's 70's and 80's

 

[mirial]

I've always wondered whether Schumacher would defend in the same manner if the cars had no roll hoops. I think he's a coward, so the Frog and Scorpion fable doesn't apply to him.

Just ask fans (like me) of the late Gilles Villeneuve, maybe too brave at times?

The safety technology today has saved many lives, that undoubtedly would have been lost in the 60's 70's and 80's

From what I have seen of Villeneuve, he generally put himself in a situation where he would have came off worst had the move not worked out...Schuey doesn't care too much for ethics.

 

[YellowG1]

As Brundle and DC were alluding to, it's not just that we have some great talented and quick drivers (Alonso, Button, Vettel, Hamilton, while in no particular order, are all at the very peak of the great driver list, with a supporting cast of Schumacher, Rosberg and Webber) but they're also very brave. Webber overtaking Alonso into Eau Rouge? Vettel overtaking Alonso on the outside of the Caurve Grande, partially on the grass? Button on the outside of Schumacher into Ascari?

"Brave" devolves very quickly into "stupid" and "reckless" depending on the driver and the outcome...

 

[Famine]

Much like Hamilton did with kobayashi on SPA for example...

Exactly - look how that worked out for him too!

 

[Seismica]

Interesting thoughts on the car being re-tooled for Button... but if that makes Hamilton slower? Or is it simply Hamilton could outperform a twitchy car more easily? McLaren might want a two-tier program... though they can't complain about the competitiveness of their package this year... just the competitiveness of their provisional number one driver...

I think that both drivers are happy with the car as a whole. What has happened is through developments in aerodynamics, the car has become a lot more balanced which allows Button to get the most out of it. At the same time, it benefits Lewis and means he can perform at his best. I think what it is showing is when the car is working, Button performs more consistently than Hamilton, whilst lacking slightly on overall pace.

Unsurprising to see people reaching for the "its the car" excuse again, when Button does badly, its all Button's fault and Hamilton's genius that they end where they end up..but when Hamilton does badly its the car that has caused Button to do better than him?

Rubbish. Hamilton has clearly been faster most of the year in this car, even in low downforce setup. The problem isn't his ability in this car, setup or whatever. Its his mindset - it couldn't be clearer from Spa to Monza that Lewis' head is not screwed on right at the moment.

Indeed he has. Mclaren's upgrades have made the car the pacesetter in race trim, and also quite an easy car to drive, which means Button can get more out of it. Hamilton's performances haven't really changed at all, Button is just able to get more out of the car which shows how good a driver he is because he is outperforming Hamilton and has been for several races.

 

[tribolik]

I think that Button's been outperforming Hamilton (slightly and mostly in race trim) because on the new Pirelli tyres and his superior tyre management skills but Hamilton seems to be faster than him... (dont get me wrong I like button more than Hamilton but thats just MO)

 

[Seismica]

I think that Button's been outperforming Hamilton (slightly and mostly in race trim) because on the new Pirelli tyres and his superior tyre management skills but Hamilton seems to be faster than him... (dont get me wrong I like button more than Hamilton but thats just MO)

Agreed. I'm a Button fan but I can't deny, Hamilton is faster over one lap.

 

[Peter.]

"Still not sure if the kid has what it takes" prize - Bruno Senna. Solid drive, points collecting, 4th fastest lap (soft tyres at the end helping). Still ... didn't blow me away. To be continued ...

He didn't do any worse than i'd expect of Heidfield to be honest. Plus, he lost quite a few places from the first corner incident, having to limp around the outside of the wreckage, while others cut the chicane on the inside. Even so, finishing 1 place up from where he started, and almost catching di Resta for 8th is something to be proud of in his second race for Renault. He'll score more points this season, trust me.

 

[tribolik]

He didn't do any worse than i'd expect of Heidfield to be honest. Plus, he lost quite a few places from the first corner incident, having to limp around the outside of the wreckage, while others cut the chicane on the inside. Even so, finishing 1 place up from where he started, and almost catching di Resta for 8th is something to be proud of in his second race for Renault. He'll score more points this season, trust me.

But Heidfield and Petrov where in each others way most of the time and Petrov doesnt seems to have any issues with Senna...

 

[Peter.]

But Heidfield and Petrov where in each others way most of the time and Petrov doesnt seems to have any issues with Senna...

I don't remember them compromising each other's race anytime this year. In fact, only time i've seen them together is when Nick passed him in Spain. Been pretty detached in my opinion.

 

[tribolik]

I don't remember them compromising each other's race anytime this year. In fact, only time i've seen them together is when Nick passed him in Spain. Been pretty detached in my opinion.

LOL sorry my fault I didnt explain myself very well... have been in each others way for position as first driver on the team... and Heidfield was supposed to help develop the car (as the more experienced driver) wich he failed miserably... in the start of the season the Renault was one of the top 3 car IMO and now its the 6 or 7 best cars again IMO... Im sure that they will save some money sticking just with senna also.

EDIT: but I do remember a race (from the start of the season - 3rd or 4th race) were they did race each other hard much like Jeson and Hamilton did various times this year....

 

[Brend]

Man, getting more and more impressed with Di Resta every week. 👍

 

[Peter.]

LOL sorry my fault I didnt explain myself very well... have been in each others way for position as first driver on the team... and Heidfield was supposed to help develop the car (as the more experienced driver) wich he failed miserably... in the start of the season the Renault was one of the top 3 car IMO and now its the 6 or 7 best cars again IMO... Im sure that they will save some money sticking just with senna also.

EDIT: but I do remember a race (from the start of the season - 3rd or 4th race) were they did race each other hard much like Jeson and Hamilton did various times this year....

Nick Heidfield was hired to be the team leader in Kubica's absence; to develop the car and lead the team forward, something that Renault couldn't do with Petrov, being in only his second F1 season. I wouldn't say that Nick failed miserably in regards to anything, but he just wasn't doing as well as they wanted him to do being number 1 in the team, and was performing rather lackluster in qualifying. That, and the serious financial issues meant that Renault needed the millions of dollars that Bruno Senna would deliver, and, they were ultimately just bored of him, putting Senna in the car would give them so much more public appeal and attention, and not really cost them anything in terms of performance.

In terms of Renault's pace, I don't think they were ever the top 3 in terms of their car's speed. They got those 2 lucky podiums at the start of the season not on all out pace, but more because the teams weren't used to the tyre wear as yet, and struggled with that. And cut them some slack, they are firmly the 5th best car on the grid at the moment.

 

[CarolinaBlue704]

Every track should have podium celebrations like Monza.