2011 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix

[Prince.M5]

Did anyone notice during the last few corners of the final lap, Vettel's steering wheel display was flickering and nearly gone out? It obviously didn't hinder him, but it's just something I noticed.

I noticed that too, I thought it was a nature of LEDs being recorded with an HD camera... But that shouldn't happen because I've been watching a couple of races already in HD and never seen that before. So I'm guessing that it's just some sort of electrical glitch.

 

[niky]

Could it be a karma for Hamilton for what he did yesterday? The race was fantastic though, a lot of overtakings. Great drive from Michael and Jenson - both are my man of the day.

So for the first time this season, we have a proper first corner incident

Karma wouldn't have seen Maldonado finish within the top ten after his unsportsmanlike show of road rage yesterday.

This needs to stop. Without getting into another debate about who was right and who was wrong, it is very possible that if Hamilton braked, the incident could have been avoided. Are you disputing this fact? His car's not going to explode if it goes under a certain speed. This isn't the (terrible) movie "Speed".

And that has to stop. Re-read my post from earlier and look at the onboards again. Maldonado is in his line of sight for less than an instant before impact. They penalized him for waggling his tail at Maldonado right before the incident... but nobody (I don't care if you have the reflexes of Kimi Raikkonen) could have avoided that hit.

lewis has apologized over twitter. can read his tweets here: https://twitter.com/LewisHamilton

Good job. Clearly his fault there.

----

For those wondering... and I'm seeing a lot of wild theories about how Kobayashi used DRS to pull up on him...Lewis had overtaken Kobayashi on the previous corner, and was taking advantage of DRS and KERS to pull out a lead on him before the next.

Look at the replays: Lewis has his DRS open, Kobayashi's is closed. Kobayashi pulled that on Lewis purely through straightline speed and KERS. Lewis wasn't fully expecting that overtake because, by all rights, he should have been much faster. But he wasn't.

Lewis's mistake was he was clearly taking a defensive line on the inside, and when Kobayashi pulls out to overtake on the outside, Lewis drifts back onto the racing line and BAM! Hits him.

Maybe Kobayashi could have stayed a few feet to the left, but Lewis would have eventually gotten there, too... Kobayashi was performing a legitimate overtake attempt, even if he could have never made it stick... Which is why:

Twitter:
# After watching the replay, I realize it was my fault today 100%. I didn't give Kobayashi enough room though I thought in was past. about 9 hours ago via Twitter for iPad

So much for being an arrogant so-and-so... right? I mean, Lewis may be an arse at times... which is why he got reprimanded for the Maldonado incident, because they couldn't be sure he really didn't know what he was doing... but he's not as evil as some people make him out to be... a muppet, but not evil.

 

[Prince.M5]

Karma wouldn't have seen Maldonado finish within the top ten after his unsportsmanlike show of road rage yesterday.

It's a Karma for Hamilton. On Saturday, he selfishly took advantage and ruined Maldonado's effort. Yesterday, Hamilton's effort were ruined and Maldonado took advantage of everything to score his first point... But as I've said before, I know the latter part of the incident was mostly Maldonado's fault.

Well, he pretty much ruined Maldonado's effort yesterday eventhough in the latter part it was Maldonado's fault. Today, he got a payback. Just what I think because I was pretty mad when he tried to claim a position from someone whose obviously on a hot lap. But whatever, I'm not going to bring the case back up...

 

[niky]

Karma's an imperfect metaphor. IMHO, any incident of road rage should result in a race ban, and Maldonado didn't get that. Instead, he got a chance to race.

Whatever, I felt the stewards went too easy on both of them. I still congratulate Maldonado for vindicating himself... but I feel that Karma was an unfair female dog to Hamilton to day.

But I don't believe in Karma. Karma wouldn't have ruined Button's race with a yellow flag a few races ago and then given him third place in this one with another yellow flag.

Obviously... it should have given him the win.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

So much for being an arrogant so-and-so... right? I mean, Lewis may be an arse at times... which is why he got reprimanded for the Maldonado incident, because they couldn't be sure he really didn't know what he was doing... but he's not as evil as some people make him out to be... a muppet, but not evil.

That was corporate Lewis speaking. Real Lewis is fuming at Koba-crashi.


Decent race overalll...too bad nobody could match the Bulls on pace. Ferrari might have if they were good on the harder tires. What was that conspiracy again?

 

[F1 fan]

And that has to stop. Re-read my post from earlier and look at the onboards again. Maldonado is in his line of sight for less than an instant before impact. They penalized him for waggling his tail at Maldonado right before the incident... but nobody (I don't care if you have the reflexes of Kimi Raikkonen) could have avoided that hit.[/COLOR]

And if you read my posts, you'll see that I am not for once debating who was to blame for the incident. Nor am I saying that Lewis had enough time to react. I was just questioning why Homeforsummer seems to think it was impossible for Lewis Hamilton to touch the brakes. He seems to be under the illusion that Lewis' car would have exploded it he so much as touched the brakes.

So many people on various forums have been using the "Lewis couldn't touch the brakes or he would have stalled" excuse. I'm trying to get to the bottom of that.

 

[Hollidog]

That was corporate Lewis speaking. Real Lewis is fuming at Koba-crashi.

Decent race overalll...too bad nobody could match the Bulls on pace. Ferrari might have if they were good on the harder tires. What was that conspiracy again?

Agreed. His most telling reaction was in the interview with Lee Mckenzie, in which, in typical Lewis fashion he whinges and tries to shift the blame. Take the twitter message with a grain of salt. Frankly, like I said before, I don't see how this incident is very different to the one involving Hiedfeld and Buemi at the Nurburgring. Other than in that case the car that got moved over on came off second best.

 

[Grayfox]

Just watched the race again on SPEED Channel. Did anyone notice during the last few corners of the final lap, Vettel's steering wheel display was flickering and nearly gone out? It obviously didn't hinder him, but it's just something I noticed.

I saw that too, but didnt think much of it, as if it were major the team would have said something.

 

[Feschka]

 

[homeforsummer]

And if you read my posts, you'll see that I am not for once debating who was to blame for the incident. Nor am I saying that Lewis had enough time to react. I was just questioning why Homeforsummer seems to think it was impossible for Lewis Hamilton to touch the brakes. He seems to be under the illusion that Lewis' car would have exploded it he so much as touched the brakes.

I'm not saying it's impossible he could have braked, I'm saying that he had zero reason to (Maldonado was coming from behind, and it's quite fair to assume that Lewis wouldn't expect to be hit), zero opportunity to (since the accident happened so quickly), and even if he had braked, it the time he had to do so wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to the outcome, if not made it worse.

This is the last I'm saying on the matter. You've had several opportunities to understand the bloody obvious points I'm making and failed each time, not to mention ignoring Ardius and Niky saying the same things too.

 

[Seismica]

Ok. Hamilton vs Maldonado, it was a deliberate sidesweep which Hamilton didn't expect and therefore could not avoid. Maldonado was doing the whole 'I don't know what happened' routine to get off, but he knew exactly what he was doing. The previous lap it was over-aggressive of Lewis to take the place in the final corner, but both Williams' laps were already shot because of Kovalainen in front, and were going far too slowly in the final corner. Lewis' move certainly shouldn't have provoked that reaction from Maldonado.

Hamilton vs Kobayashi, contrary to the beliefs of Martin Whitmarsh and several members of the BBC team (Bar Eddie Jordan who spoke sense), Hamilton moved over on Kobayashi alongside him in the braking zone. Had Kobayashi been the one off with Hamilton continuing, he would have almost certainly got a drive-through. Hamilton himself admitted it was his own fault, and that is pretty conclusive coming from his mouth as he usually never admits fault.

 

[GM]

Pirelli are preparing to confirm they will no longer use the Medium Tyre in future races this year link

Edit - I also think Hamiltons move on Maldonado in the chicane was fine, idk if its been mentioned but it was the end of the session and Hamilton was in the drop zone, so he couldn't afford to get held up by the Williams

 

[Seismica]

Pirelli are preparing to confirm they will no longer use the Medium Tyre in future races this year link

I doubt that. They have already stopped use of the hard compound tyre and if they do the same with the medium, they will be left with only the soft and the super softs for every race. You certainly need a harder compound at India considering the track temperatures that are expected there. It's that reason why I am surprised the hard was discontinued in the first place.

Ferrari are just complaining about it because they can't get the tyres to work like Mclaren and Red Bull can. This is a mechanical problem caused by their car as other teams do not suffer the same pace problems. But these problems pay dividends because they can stay out longer on the softer tyre. This points to fundamental problems with the car in not working the tyres enough, it's Ferrari's problem and they have to deal with it, just as Ferrari said Red Bull have to deal with the blistering as they put in too much front camber.

Edit - I also think Hamiltons move on Maldonado in the chicane was fine, idk if its been mentioned but it was the end of the session and Hamilton was in the drop zone, so he couldn't afford to get held up by the Williams

I kind of agree, Maldonado was going too slow and Hamilton really had nowhere else to go without jeopardising his chances of getting into Q3. But, Maldonado was challenging for final grid positions in Q2, with the circuit drying quickly he could have improved his time. But as I mentioned, Kovalainen had held the Williams' up all the way from Stavelot and through Blanchimont, they were not going to get into Q3. It was just an unfortunate incident caused by traffic which happens in almost every qualifying session. Maldonado just needs to learn to control himself on track. If he'd have broken Hamilton's jaw after the race I would've said good on him. But he decided to fight it out on track instead, which is fairly dangerous for everyone, and also very expensive for the teams.

 

[Feschka]

Hamilton vs Kobayashi, contrary to the beliefs of Martin Whitmarsh and several members of the BBC team

What did they say?

 

[PeterJB]

Pretty exciting first half, but a lousy second half.

Vettel: Faultless race. Has shown that he can actually overtake when it is required (which is not very often), and made some good strategy calls. Top Job.

Webber: Once again, a lousy start. It's clearly something wrong with him and not the car. Vettel has electrifying starts, and it's been a while since I've seen Webber gain a position off the start line.

Hamilton: Even though I don't like him I can't help but not blame him for his Maldonado collision. I can however for the Kobayashi one. He should have checked his mirrors more thoroughly and realised that this is Kobayashi, he WILL try and come back at you!

Button: Again, another good run from the midfield, he could be so much better if he could just qualify properly, though I don't think he had it in him to win today.

Alonso: Again, good first half, but then dropped off later, he looked extremely weak towards the end.

Massa: Good start, shame the puncture messed things up, and he is now mathematically out of contention for the title.

Rosberg: One of the best races I've seen in a long time from him. Amazing start, and did a good job, and inevitable failure of defending against his rivals.

Schumacher: The best race start I can remember seeing in a long time, though had he qualified where he should have been I don't think he would have finished much higher, the Mercedes just isn't fast enough.

Senna: Slightly scruffy start, though it wasn't really his fault. Disappointing not to see him in the points, but he made a good run up through the backmarkers.

Maldonado: Well done for finally getting a damn point! Strange weekend for him, I put him at fault for the swipe, but not the the bus stop contact.

Alguersuari: This is very disappointing, could've had a good result but gets taken out straight away.

 

[homeforsummer]

Button: Again, another good run from the midfield, he could be so much better if he could just qualify properly, though I don't think he had it in him to win today.

Think it was more bad luck than inability to qualify. di Resta had similar poor luck, even though his pace has been impressive.

Had be been in the top few rows, I reckon a win could quite easily have been on the cards. His pace was quick enough on the badly blistering soft tyres (am I right though in thinking that Webber set the fastest lap of the race again?), and on the hard tyres better than the average. Not to mention the extra stop he needed for a new front wing that put him down to 19th. 9 seconds behind at the end of the race isn't bad at all from nearly the back of the grid at one point.

Still, "ifs" and "buts" don't win races...

 

[Seismica]

What did they say?

I can't link to videos as they are BBC and therefore UK only, but it was along the lines of 'Kobayashi ran into the back of Hamilton/should have got on the brakes earlier/should have given him more space', even though it was as clear as day that he was on the racing line and the defending Hamilton moved over into the side of him, thinking he was far ahead. Not intentional, but Hamilton was the one at fault, 100%.

Think it was more bad luck than inability to qualify. di Resta had similar poor luck, even though his pace has been impressive.

Had be been in the top few rows, I reckon a win could quite easily have been on the cards. His pace was quick enough on the badly blistering soft tyres (am I right though in thinking that Webber set the fastest lap of the race again?), and on the hard tyres better than the average. Not to mention the extra stop he needed for a new front wing that put him down to 19th.

Still, "ifs" and "buts" don't win races...

Agreed. Button was told to get out of it for Hamilton who was 4-5 seconds slower on his best lap so far, Mclaren wanted both drivers in Q3. It was clear to everyone that he'd done enough to get through to Q3... (I honestly though he was through too) But the track was still drying quickly and when Button came in, he didn't have enough time to go out again. That 'misunderstanding' thing was a load of bull for the media, he was well aware that it was an in-lap. Jenson had a go at his engineer because he'd been told he was comfortably in. It wasn't a driver mistake, it was simply a matter of being on-track at the wrong time, which is a very easy mistake to make in changeable conditions.

Hamilton: Even though I don't like him I can't help but not blame him for his Maldonado collision. I can however for the Kobayashi one. He should have checked his mirrors more thoroughly and realised that this is Kobayashi, he WILL try and come back at you!

Well, Kobayashi said in an interview he knew that Hamilton was faster, which is why he let him past without much of a fight, he wasn't trying to overtake as he knew it would cost them both time. Hamilton's Mclaren was just god-awful in a straight line compared to half the cars on the track, including Button. This is why Kobayashi kept up with him after Hamilton passed

Were Mclaren able to change the engine/sidepod cover after the collision with Maldonado? Are they allowed to do that in parc ferme? This could explain why.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Look at 0:30 ... are the Ferraris still built with steel ??? First Alonso "destroys" Alguersuari's front suspension, immediately after he goes over what's left of someone's front wing ... and keeps going like if nothing happened.

[YOUTUBEHD]b2PzeHxdTF4[/YOUTUBEHD]

 

[Seismica]

Look at 0:30 ... are the Ferraris still built with steel ??? First Alonso "destroys" Alguersuari's front suspension, immediately after he goes over what's left of someone's front wing ... and keeps going like if nothing happened.

As I understand it, the Ferrari has a more conventional rear suspension as they still use pull-rods. Also, the upper and lower wishbones are mounted further apart than in some other cars which helps make the suspension stronger in impacts. Maybe this contributed to it? I remember hearing last year that Ferraris were always made strong in recent years because of Schumacher's style of overtaking

 

[Feschka]

Well I guess you didn't mean this BBC commentator, he said just what I was thinking in that moment...

Sorry if this has been mentioned before but IMO Lewis overtook Kobayashi at the inside entry of Eau Rouge and probably that's why he exited slower than usual and even DRS wasn't enough to make up for the lost speed.

 

[YellowG1]

Vettel drove like a champion in a championship winning car today.

Any thoughts that either Fernando, Lewis or anyone else had of making a real run at Vettel were effectively dashed today. I think I and many others were hoping McLaren or Ferrari could start taking races from here on out, but that doesn't seem very likely anymore.

I'm really glad Senna showed some speed. I predicted he would be off the pace and DNF, but he sort of proved me wrong. I hope he gets to keep the seat for the rest of the year.

 

[Feschka]

I got it.
Here there's Hammie, followed by Koba, then suddenly Schumi...
I think Hammie saw everything in the rear mirror, he saw EVERYTHING!

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Lewis (tweeting) accepted 100% responsibility for the incident with Kobayashi (seemed he forgot about him being there).

A good race; Webber's pass of Alonzo entering Eau Rouge was intense 👍

👎 Speed Channels live broadcast now being blacked out here in BC Canada; stuck with TSN live coverage; Speed does re-broadcast later in day though

 

[F1 fan]

This is the last I'm saying on the matter. You've had several opportunities to understand the bloody obvious points I'm making and failed each time, not to mention ignoring Ardius and Niky saying the same things too.

You seem to have misunderstood my point. I'm not discussing blame or whether Hamilton even saw Maldonado and tried to react. You seem to have misread my posts and the point I was trying to make. And I've explained it several times.

A good race; Webber's pass of Alonzo entering Eau Rouge was intense 👍

That was scary stuff. Very good of both of them to avoid a massive collision.

 

[Alex.]

You seem to have misunderstood my point. I'm not discussing blame or whether Hamilton even saw Maldonado and tried to react. You seem to have misread my posts and the point I was trying to make. And I've explained it several times.

You are still on about saying it was not impossible for Lewis to brake? I hope not, that was the single most pointless point of all time.

 

[homeforsummer]

You seem to have misunderstood my point. I'm not discussing blame or whether Hamilton even saw Maldonado and tried to react. You seem to have misread my posts and the point I was trying to make. And I've explained it several times.

No, I've understood, I just find it ridiculous. You're claiming Lewis had time to brake and that if he had, it would have avoided an incident, correct? I'm simply disagreeing with that - and I've explained my reasons on about five occasions now. As have others.

 

[EDK]

F1 fan and homeforsummer. You guys just need to chill out. Posts on both sides are borderline in terms of being directed at the person.

I don't think anything productive can come from further discussion of the incident, so just move on.

 

[Robin]

Hamilton's reprimand was for the accident at the chicane, genius, not the incident after the hairpin.

Oh really, you must be privy to some inside information then because where exactly did the stewards say in the statement that was the reason for the reprimand?

Actually you don't need to answer because I already know they didn't.

 

[Peter.]

Oh really, you must be privy to some inside information then because where exactly did the stewards say in the statement that was the reason for the reprimand?

Actually you don't need to answer because I already know they didn't.

What else would it be for? We saw all of the videos and whatnot, Lewis didn't do anything wrong besides that collision with Maldonado? What else would it be for, because he's black?

This argument is getting out of hand now, we're all throwing words like rocks at each other now, and it's leading to abuse and infractions.

 

[Robin]

What else would it be for? We saw all of the videos and whatnot, Lewis didn't do anything wrong besides that collision with Maldonado? What else would it be for, because he's black?

For the actual collision with Maldonado on the straight. If he didn't do ANYTHING wrong why did he get reprimanded at all then?