2011 Formula One Grand Prix de Monaco

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You'll have to ask Hamilton. He's the one who said it.

EDIT: You changed your original reply now mine makes absolutely no sense. :lol:


:D

Yea, sorry about that, the point Seis made sounds like the point I was making: LH dived into Massa with a Hail Mary pass, then ran him wide to payback in the tunnel, hence I was unsure ;)
 
👍

What was it he said...

"Is your front wing ok Lewis?
Yeah it should be ok. Massa turned in on me, that was on purpose"

I'm sure in the heat of the moment that's what he thought. Massa did in fact cut him off unintentionally, but this is simply because he was trying to dive down the inside of Webber who had ran wide and was getting jammed up by the cars in front. To me it was a simple racing accident (where both drivers were intending to do the same thing to the car that was in front...and unfortunately it went sour on such a tight track)...which hopefully Hamilton will learn from now that he has had some time to cool off.
 
What a race today. so much happened, I really haven't sucked it in yet. I must say though...

KOBAYASHI!!!!!!!! :D


Anyway, though i'm displeased to see Vettel win yet again, I was pleased to see that it wasn't in dominant fashion, as Ferrari(or Alonso rather) and McLaren get ever closer to Vettel as the races go by. For the second time in a row, the race has had Vettel being hunted down in the last few laps of the race. It looks as if Red Bull's dominance may be coming to an end, slowly but surely.

It's safest to call this a one-off for Ferrari. Ferrari lacks downforce, but has the best mechanical grip of the top 3, which matter as much as downforce here, if not more. McLaren really lacks the traction, as Lewis and Button both fell behind the Ferarris in sector 2, but clawed back the time in sectors 1 and 3, and Alonso really managed to get very close to Vettel in the last few corners in sector 3 all the time.

Disappointing result from Lewis, he did little but get into incidents with other drivers, and ruined a 6th place for Maldonado :grumpy:. Kobayashi did very well today, his race best, 5th!!! Sutil could've done better as well, but he had his own problems, luckily still managed to score points.

Which brings us to the million dollar question. Had there not have been a red flag, could Alonso and/or Button gotten by Vettel or won the race? I think so, Vettel really lucked into this win today. He was a sitting duck on those old softs, and only Monaco's lack of overtaking spots, and his ability to pull enough of a gap in sector 1 and the first half of sector 3 thanks to that Red Bull's superior downforce secured him that win.
 
As for Kobayashi, it was a great showing from him. I hope he eventually gets his chance at a top team...

As for Lewis, he has a tendency to put other drivers in a dangerous situation, where they will either make contact with him, make contact with the wall or back off. If they back off, he is lauded as "brilliant". If they touch him, he whines over the radio "so and so hit me. That was deliberate"... A shallow attempt to try and get the attention of Charlie Whiting.

He's a very dirty driver on an ego trip. He needs to learn that this is Formula one and NOT!!!! the Lewis Hamilton show.
 
Sound similar to someone else we know? :D

Yes, that was an Alonso joke. You're all welcome.

Disclaimer: I like Alonso (except when he's bitching) so there's no "I hate Alonso and wish he were dead." motif from me.
 
As for Kobayashi, it was a great showing from him. I hope he eventually gets his chance at a top team...
I remember hearing about a future RBR drive coming his way. It was in Australia or Malaysia. I can't remember where I heard it. I think the SpeedTV commentators mentioned it.
 
How did I not see that this thread would grow over twenty pages overnight?

Didn't get to watch the race, sadly, was stuck on the road. But from what I saw of the Live Commentary, I wouldn't have enjoyed it.

Terrible day for Mclaren, for one. Lewis Hamilton has got to be the goat of the race. Sure, some of his early troubles were caused by Schumacher punting him over, but the rest was all WonderBoy. I'd say this is probably his worst performance in F1, ever. Sure, he got hit himself a couple of times, but he let his frustration get to him and caused a number of unnecessary accidents himself as a result. He should just shut up and go on to the next race, the jabber isn't doing him any favors.. (and this is a fan, talking)

McLaren gambled on a winning strategy in qualifying that didn't pan out. They gambled on a tire strategy for Button that seemed a sure winner, but it didn't pan out, either. Hell... I was hoping to see Button triumphant, given his tire advantage near the end, but the red flag brought those hopes crashing down. Shame. The McLaren seemed like it would completely dominate here.

Drive of the race has to go to Alonso. Again. Good job, Fernando! 👍 Yes, maybe this circuit suits the Ferrari, but still... you've got to hand it to him for a good drive.

Biggest loser is the racing venue. How many red flags this weekend? While the number of crashes have proved the abilities of the safety barrier, it's still not enough. Given the high rate of wear on the tires this year, the marbling issues and the small rear wings, those cars look incredibly unstable barreling out of the tunnel. I'd say the tunnel requires a repave at the end to smoothen the transition it a bit.

-

This race is a reminder for those people who clamor for more dangerous racing... crashes in F1 aren't entertainment... they're deadly business. 🤬 anyone who says different. :grumpy: We've seen at least one bright young talent lose his chance to participate in a race after doing so well in qualifying, and another who might be laid off for a race or two with an injury.
 
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Sound similar to someone else we know? :D

Yes, that was an Alonso joke. You're all welcome.

Disclaimer: I like Alonso (except when he's bitching) so there's no "I hate Alonso and wish he were dead." motif from me.

In all fairness, when is the last time you heard him moan? The last time I recall was in Valencia - and legitimately because guess who - LH - broke the rules about the safety car. I think Alonso gets an unfair wrap from his McL days, he really doesnt seem to be that guy anymore.

F1 Fan
As for Kobayashi, it was a great showing from him. I hope he eventually gets his chance at a top team...

As for Lewis, he has a tendency to put other drivers in a dangerous situation, where they will either make contact with him, make contact with the wall or back off. If they back off, he is lauded as "brilliant". If they touch him, he whines over the radio "so and so hit me. That was deliberate"... A shallow attempt to try and get the attention of Charlie Whiting.

He's a very dirty driver on an ego trip. He needs to learn that this is Formula one and NOT!!!! the Lewis Hamilton show.

For once, I agree with you ;)
 
In all fairness, when is the last time you heard him moan? The last time I recall was in Valencia - and legitimately because guess who - LH - broke the rules about the safety car. I think Alonso gets an unfair wrap from his McL days, he really doesnt seem to be that guy anymore.

Oh no, I'm not implying he's been complaining at all this season (at least not that I've heard). I wasn't watching F1 much during his tenure at McLaren but I can imagine he didn't take too kindly to being No. 2.
 
Alonso was that way in McLaren... and to some extent, he was very vocal about things he didn't like in his first season in Ferrari.

But this season's Alonso seems more set on winning than ever before. He seems to be more philosophical, yet more determined. He just sets his jaw and races. It also helps, I guess, that things are going well at the moment.

Hamilton, on the other hand... the race card? Really? :lol:
 
Lewis really should come out and apologize for what he said I mean saying stuff like

It's just ridiculous. These drivers are absolutely frickin' ridiculous. Just stupid.

Unacceptable Comments ,He really needs to get a grip on himself .
 
Hamiltons true colors revealed, I had a sneaky suspicion he was an arrogant self centered childish little brat, and his post race interview confirms such suspicions, disgraceful human being.

For Webber to get back up to 4th from at one stage being 15th, in a tight track like Monaco, is a cool effort, and he did is famous chicane pass aswell:) Brings back memories of his first podium here some 5 years ago.
 
Hamilton and Massa
It was definitely a very desperate overtake by Hamilton, but I think Massa turned in slightly too early to block Hamilton and ended up hitting both Mark Webber and Hamilton.

Hamilton and Maldonado / Hamilton and Schumacher
Another ambitious overtake, but aren't most of them in Monaco? He had a similar overtake with Schumacher, but the difference was that Schumacher gave him just enough space to pass. If Schumacher didn't give him enough space, would Hamilton receive a penalty?

Overall, I think the problem is Hamilton's attitude and not the actual overtakes. Most overtakes on Monaco are going to be very ambitious and it requires the person in front to give him enough space.

This reminds me of the Top Gear documentary about Ayrton Senna. Martin Brundle said that Senna would dive up the inside and he would let you decide if you were going to have an accident or not.
 
Hamilton and Massa
It was definitely a very desperate overtake by Hamilton, but I think Massa turned in slightly too early to block Hamilton and ended up hitting both Mark Webber and Hamilton.

It was definitely a desperate move by Hamilton but at the same time I wouldn't blame Massa for turning in slightly too early because he was avoiding Webber who was too slow getting stuck behind one of the Toro Rosso. Massa actually didn't hit Webber but it's Hamilton who decided to take advatage of the problems in front, granted him his own damage.



The incident in the tunnel was just a racing incident. Hamilton was just too close behind Massa and I'm not sure if he actually had a problem but the car just veered to the left. Nothing Massa can do, not entirely his fault either. In the end, it was very sloppy for Hamilton...
 
If you watch Di Resta's interview after the race when he was asked about his penalty.



Now that's how someone mature talks, and he's a year younger than Hamilton.
 
Sound similar to someone else we know? :D

Yes, that was an Alonso joke. You're all welcome.

Disclaimer: I like Alonso (except when he's bitching) so there's no "I hate Alonso and wish he were dead." motif from me.

I thought you were on about Ayrton Senna, I'm sure many thought he was a reckless, arrogant phallus too (though he was far more eloquent than LH is). On the flip side, Hammy would be pleased in being compared to his hero. :lol:
 


Upon watching this video, I'd say this one is pretty much 40-60. Maldonado should've gave Hamilton more room but at the same time Hamilton should've known that he was going to cut the corner, making contact with him and he's not even fully side by side before reaching the corner unlike his move with Schumacher... Both of them needs to learn something from this and Hamilton needs a little rest with his race yesterday was run with his ego and not his racing soul.
 
The penalties sucked...

I for one think that if you're going to have a Monaco GP, these things will happen and it's no ones fault. Unless it's a blatant take-out or block, let them race!

If I want to see trains of cars running without incident I'll play B-Spec.
 
Monte Carlo is like a Euro trash version of Martinsville....With all the same girl y cat fights afterward (or with words because their too big a pussies to actually have a good ol' fight).

Button had a good race, its too bad Vettel got to change his tires in the pits. Thats the big white elephant in the room, or it should be.

Without fresh tires he would have been driving on the canvas those last 3 laps.....And Alonso would have passed & maybe Button would have gotten up in there too.

The Red Bull tire strategy is a BLATANT EXAMPLE of the level most of the Red Bull team is actually at (average at best). The reason they've won is because the chassis has super good downforce & mechanical grip. But the guys calling the shots are average F1 guys.....who would be mid pack if they were commanding the Ferrari or Mercedes.

In my humble opinion, Christian Horner has always struck me as a very arrogant, domineering man who really is not bright compared to Peter Sauber or Stefano Domenicali.... Although I have only watched every race since last year. Just got into it.
 
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Monte Carlo is like a Euro trash version of Martinsville....With all the same girl y cat fights afterward (or with words because their too big a pussies to actually have a good ol' fight).

Button had a good race, its too bad Vettel got to change his tires in the pits. Thats the big white elephant in the room, or it should be.

Without fresh tires he would have been driving on the canvas those last 3 laps.....And Alonso would have passed & maybe Button would have gotten up in there too.

The Red Bull tire strategy is a BLATANT EXAMPLE of the level most of the Red Bull team is actually at (average at best). The reason they've won is because the chassis has super good downforce & mechanical grip. But the guys calling the shots are average F1 guys.....who would be mid pack if they were commanding the Ferrari or Mercedes.

In my humble opinion, Christian Horner has always struck me as a very arrogant, domineering man who really is not bright compared to Peter Sauber or Stefano Domenicali.... Although I have only watched every race since last year. Just got into it.

Except that That 'Strategy' is Vettel's call or atleats that is what he claimes
 
Hamilton v Massa : It would have been totally different if Webber wasn't there, but he was. Massa didn't have anywhere to go and so I would call it a racing incident.

Hamilton v Maldonado : From watching the replays on TV I would say it was Hamilton's fault, by miles. But from watching the onboard on the previous page, Hamilton is further along side Maldonado than I first thought. surely Maldonado know's that Hamilton is attacking, diving from side to side on the straight? He could have gave him enough room, but he didn't. Who's fault is it? Well, it's Monte Carlo so things like this are always going to happen.

Webber here is pretty much as long side Hamilton here in Singapore 2010 as Hamilton was with Maldonado yesterday, but Webber receives no penalty.

 
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You must be very cautious on praising Kobayashi's overtaking moves then, I'm a fan of his too but even his overtake on Sutil today was a dive down the inside and was not as in control as Hamilton was. He only got a reprimand today though.

I think Brundle said something Schumacher being wise about seeing Hamilton being there and then giving him some space.

His moves did not demand Maldonado or Massa to move out the way, just relied on them giving minimal room for them to both make the corner but he got completely shut off on both attempts. Maldonado's crash was simply because he was not looking in the mirror and did not see Lewis was near him but drivers should be aware in a DRS zone about someone possibly attempting to overtake even if it is opportunistic but it was very similar to the Schumacher one. Lewis got an advantage from making the opportunistic move as he gained Maldonado's place without losing any in the end so his risk paid off in the end as it could be crucial points required to keep him in the title race.

Most drivers don't appreciate it as it puts them in a difficult position to get past and lose position. The reason why the stewards penalised him was him being the car behind and if he stays behind, there would have been no collision and would have all been avoidable. However if Maldonado or Massa gave him slight room, both incidents he would have got no penalty I believe so shows how much the driver in front has got in terms of power. I remember Singapore last year about the clash with Lewis and Mark, had Lewis been the leading car and Webber was attempting a pass, Mark would have been penalised but it went down as a racing incident as Lewis was not fully ahead of Webber before turning in and claiming the position entirely.

On a side not, I have noticed you spell ‘ridiculous’ wrong on many occasions. Not a personal attack or anything I thought you would like to know as I always find the incorrect spelling of ‘ridiculous’ funny as usually in context it is about someone complaining about something. It might help you out in future.

I am very cautious praising Kobayashi's overtakes - the one on Sutil was worthy of penalty but they got reprimands, so perhaps Sutil admitted to fault or something?
Look, I'm not saying Maldanado was right to turn into Hamilton - he should have seen him there and expected him to be close after the DRS zone. But there is also an element of not expecting such moves. Again, it was a racing incident, neither were fully to blame.
Again I shall repeat that I don't think Hamilton's penalty was for just that incident but with respect to his previous incident, he was still making optimistic passes.

Massa wasn't going to give Lewis room in his incident as he was already committed to the corner and was clearly focused on Mark in front of him. He would never had expected Lewis to be there alongside of him and thats a fair reason to turn in as he did. Only Schumacher's pass on Rosberg was successful there and Rosberg had to let Michael pass, he had no chance to try and defend.

Singapore is a different case, in that one the defending and attacking cars knew roughly where each other was and took lines there were fair from their own perspectives. They had several seconds to react to each other and were not focusing on a car in front, or difficult hairpins and barriers. But here at Monaco, its not fair to poke your car up the inside and expect the driver ahead to notice in time, every time. The move on Massa happened in split seconds at a corner and in a sitaution that Massa had no chance at all to see it coming.
Maldanado's was a little more obvious but again due to the nature of the circuit, I think its fair to chalk that one as 50/50.

Look, every overtake is a 2-way agreement. You can very rarely pull an overtake when the other guy is not going to give you the room or acknowledge your presence, that will nearly always end in a crash. So you have to give the guy ahead chance to see it coming, otherwise how can you expect him to give you room if he doesn't know you are there?

To bring it back to the original point, Lewis shouldn't be going about blaming everyone else for his incidents and complaining the stewards are biased towards him. He is not blameless and the stewards have a fair reason to take a critical view on his antics.
I think the only real question here is why did Kobayashi recieve no penalty for his dive on Sutil?
 
There are already too many comments for me to have to read through now, so I'll just say what I think of this.

Well done to Vettel! His driving certainly was bad, but there was definitely an element of luck involved in this victory, even if he had a botched pit stop and radio troubles.

Kobayashi rules! Fantastic to see a personal record finish from him, just a shame to see him lose 4th right at the end, same with Sutil, dropping from 5th to 7th after the puncture, but it made some good action, even if Petrov ended up in hospital.

What is Lewis' problem? I have lost what little respect I had for him. It's bad enough that he ended two peoples races and still somehow end up sixth, even with 2 penalties, but then to insist it wasn't his fault? it's ridiculous. Nothing is ever his fault it seems, he should just be a man, suck it up and take the blame for once.

But overall, an amazing race(s)!
 
I have to admit, I dont quite get what you are saying - you agreeing or disagreeing :odd:

Agreeing... I think :confused: You've confused me now lol. Probably because I kept saying 'you', meaning it was unclear I was referring to what Lewis was saying, not what you were saying in the post I quoted :)

Another point was, at the start of his interview Hamilton said "You can't overtake at Monaco..." You demonstrated that in the race, well done. (There I go again with the 'you' thing :dopey:)
 
One question lingers after this race weekend: How many parties did Hamilton crash last night?
 
I think the only real question here is why did Kobayashi recieve no penalty for his dive on Sutil?

Exactly. Maybe he passed him later during that lap? That would explain why he received no penalty. From my point of view he tried to abort the pass, lost control of the rear, hit Sutil, but he didn't pass him that corner. I thought Sutil was still in front at the exit of Mirabeau. He had a bad drive out of it, but it should have been enough to stay ahead until the hairpin. The camera didn't let me see the end of the action, but I noticed Kobayashi was in front of Sutil at the end of the lap. Can anybody clarify where Kobayashi passed Sutil?

I'm disappointed Hamilton isn't penalized more heavily. He took out two drivers and gained more with that than he lost with his drive-through penalty and post-race time penalty. With these mild penalties you only encourage drivers to attempt dangerous dive-bomb passes.
I think it's safe to say that if Schumachers tyres would have been healthy, he had closed the door as well. Schumacher knew he was weak and chose to maintain having a chance of scoring valuable points. Maybe this early pass boosted Hamiltons confidence, but his behaviour during the rest of the race and directly after is simply unacceptable. It's easy to blame others when you're running out of talent, but Hamilton would do wise to ask Vettel to put his finger to good use for once and help Hamilton deflate his head.

On a more positive note, this was the best Monaco race I have seen, despite the red flag situation at the end. I've seen more passes yesterday than in the last 10 years combined. I really enjoyed the 3-way battle at the front, it could have gone either way. I feel kind of sorry for Button, he drove fantastic, but like Seismica already stated, the decision to go for the super soft tyre again at his second stop, was the incorrect one. Don't know if it was his own decision, but he certainly lost the race there.
Alonso did everything right again. Lightning start, in hindsight he could have taken Button too at turn one, and no mistakes during the rest of the race.
Vettel was impressive like every other race in 2011. I'd like to kick Christian Horner in the nuts for disregarding EJ's question about the tyre strategy, because I can't imagine RB planned a 1-stop strategy with an early pit...
Hats off to Webber as well. Even though being outpaced by his teammate each race and highly unlucky this season, he makes the best out of it and doesn't screw up like Hamilton does when he can't beat Vettel. Very professional and his pass on Kobayashi was an absolute gem 👍
 
Exactly. Maybe he passed him later during that lap? That would explain why he received no penalty. From my point of view he tried to abort the pass, lost control of the rear, hit Sutil, but he didn't pass him that corner. I thought Sutil was still in front at the exit of Mirabeau. He had a bad drive out of it, but it should have been enough to stay ahead until the hairpin. The camera didn't let me see the end of the action, but I noticed Kobayashi was in front of Sutil at the end of the lap. Can anybody clarify where Kobayashi passed Sutil?

Kobayashi passed Sutil right after that incident.



Anyone else feel DRS is unnecessary? I have had that feeling for a couple of races now. Pirelli tyres and KERS is creating plenty of action outside DRS zones.
 
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Kobayashi stayed ahead after Mirabeau. Both Sutil and Kobayashi got "reprimands" from the stewards after the race, which suggests to me that Sutil had somehow done something wrong or had admitted to something. Or maybe both drivers had decided to call it a racing incident. Or maybe Kobayashi apologised and explained he wasn't trying to pass or something.

It would be nice if the stewards clarified these decisions with the public.
 
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