2011 Formula One Grand Prix de Monaco

[Tired Tyres]

He made a passing move on the inside. How do you do that without forcing the other guy to go wide? It's still Massa's choice to back out of it or try and stay with him.

 

[Seismica]

He made a passing move on the inside. How do you do that without forcing the other guy to go wide? It's still Massa's choice to back out of it or try and stay with him.

Massa was ahead coming out of the corner, Hamilton moved inside and Massa couldn't turn for the kink in the tunnel (I think he began to turn in but saw Lewis alongside, at that point it was too late). He couldn't back off, he would have had to put his foot on the brake to avoid that accident. It's ironic, he actually could have turned in on Hamilton because he had nothing to lose at that point, then Hamilton's comments after the race would have had merit. There was nothing wrong with Hamilton's overtake in the tunnel, but Massa couldn't have avoided the collision either. That tunnel can't realistically accomodate two cars side by side.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Which would have made a bizarre bookend with what happened later at Indy.

I agree on that, shame about the red flag incident happening which also involved Hamilton with someone driving into the back of him.

Didn't Hamilton force him to the outside? I only got a quick look at the replay when they showed it on SPEED.

Make your own mind up from this footage:

 

[Tired Tyres]

Massa was ahead coming out of the corner, Hamilton moved inside and Massa couldn't turn for the kink in the tunnel. He couldn't back off, he would have had to brake to avoid that accident. It's ironic, he actually could have turned in on Hamilton because he had nothing to lose at that point, then Hamilton's comments after the race would have had merit. There was nothing wrong with Hamilton's overtake in the tunnel, but Massa couldn't have avoided the collision either. That tunnel can't realistically accomodate two cars side by side.

I only meant what happened in the tunnel. That was a clean move by Hamilton. Massa could have backed out of it but didn't and crashed.*

* On further review of the above video, Massa couldn't have backed out of that. He didn't take the racing line in to the tunnel either. What was that about?

 

[zippy_the_cat]

By the way, lost in the red-flag/Lewis hubbub is the fact that both Red Bulls got through the race without any obvious KERS problems. An ominous development for the rest of the field, I should say.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I only meant what happened in the tunnel. That was a clean move by Hamilton. Massa could have backed out of it but didn't and crashed.*

* On further review of the above video, Massa couldn't have backed out of that. He didn't take the racing line in to the tunnel either. What was that about?

I did refer earlier that maybe the front wing damage with contact with Webber caused him to run wide. However it maybe sidepod damage caused by contact with Lewis or combination of both. Once he got on the marbles and with Lewis on the inside he stood no chance it seems but I think he might have crashed without Lewis being there. Here is what Felipe said about the accident.

Then when I got to the tunnel my car was damaged and I went on the dirty part of the track and hit the wall.

 

[DwightSchrute12]

This could be the next caption photo:

 

[TenEightyOne]

This could be the next caption photo:

Und zen a step to ze ri-i-i-i-i-i-iiight... etc. etc.

And on a completely different subject;

If Petrov's accident really WAS as light as it looked, why might he stay in the car and force a full spinal crew to lift him out? I know he hurt his back in that jump at, erm, Turkey (was it Turkey), but here's some scurrilous rumour mongering for you;

Conspiracy Theory:

Petrov drives for 'Group Lotus Without The Group' Renault Formerly Works Renault.

If, as most people anticipated, the race had been stopped on lap 68 (using the wind-back rule from the last completed lap - 71) then the win would have been taken by a Renault engine on what is nearly home turf.

Stranger things have happened

 

[Saidur_Ali]

This could be the next caption photo:

Alonso: You were lucky. I was going to wait until the last lap to crash, err, I mean overtake you.

Vettel: Really now, good job I saw red *laughs*.

 

[Rossticles]

Massa tried to pin blame on Hamilton for his crash in the tunnel. Spoken like a guy who hasn't gotten over 2008 yet, and is just frustrated over his terrible season thus far.

I know Ferrari has said kept up formalities regarding keeping Massa on, but I'd be stunned if Ferrari kept Massa on after this year. He's just been atrocious.

Did you not see Hamilton crashing into Massa in the hairpin or Hamilton pushing Massa to the wall in the tunnel?

I can understand Lewis's frustrations, he had two drivers give him no room and then two drivers drive into the back of his car, maybe that is why he thought the drivers were ridiculous at the time of the interview. Click here to read his comments after going to the stewards to "make peace".

Do you expect the drivers to lay down and give away their position on track?

 

[Ardius]

So let me get this straight...

People complain that the drivers are told what to say and are not allowed to show any character, yet when someone actually does, they're a baby and/or a spoiled brat?

What if the roles were reversed and it was your hero Ferrari driver who collided in a racing incident with Hamilton. Would he have been given a penalty? If he did, and went on a similar tirade, would he be a baby?

No, you miss the point I and others keep repeating over and over. This is not about Lewis telling us his feelings. Its Lewis displaying an extremely arrogant attitude, he could have just said he didn't feel he was at fault, but instead he talks like its "rediculous".

It would be no different whoever the driver was. Though it doesn't help that in the same interview he cracked some foolish jokes and then suggested that the stewards have a bias towards him.

Yes, we want drivers to be honest in interviews, but when they are honest and display some ugly charateristics, why is it wrong to then criticise that too?

 

[boiltheocean]

I'm getting sick and tired of Hamilton's attitude this season. He raises his hand at every driver just for defending their position, when he overtook Schumacher he raised his hand even though he was on the inside forcing Michael wide nearly into the barrier.

 

[IceMan PJN]

 

[Ardius]

Please, if anything is worse than Hamilton's arrogant behaviour, its the arrogant behaviour of his fans to suggest he is the one that provides excitement in races. 👎

Without his antics, we had plenty of action.
Unbelievable really that a driver can run a shocking weekend like this, and then not admit to any fault throughout all of it and suggest that it was the team's strategy calls, "unfair" penalties, and "rediculous drivers" which ruined his weekend is then defended by people who say we shouldn't complain as he provides entertainment, honesty and emotion?
Its laughable that Lewis even thinks his penalty from qualifying is unfair.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Do you expect the drivers to lay down and give away their position on track?

No I don't. However I expect the driver in front to give some room which Schumacher, Rosberg Petrov and Hamilton clearly demonstrated when being the driver in front and I'm sure a few others managed to as well. Let me put it this way, if Hamilton never got past but Maldonado gave space, people will say good attempt, Hamilton showing he is a true racer. If he gets past, Hamilton is an excellent overtaker, no space he is an idiot for being there and attempting to overtake and gets a drive through penalty for causing a collision. You could see Hamilton turning to cut the corner / avoid Maldonado before Maldonado completely turns in, but it is understandable from Maldonado's point of view as he didn't look in his mirrors unlike Schumacher who did and gave Hamilton room.

Brundle said the overtake on Schumacher was excellent by Lewis, something similar anyway. However had Schumacher turned in completely, everyone would probably be saying Lewis is the idiot for being there and destroying his race early on and pointing to it being similar to Monza last year. Fine margins of passing but it all depends on if the driver in front gives some room. Maybe it was a bit naive for Hamilton to expect a rookie to have the capacity to look in his mirrors while also spotting a braking point but he should have known something was coming as Lewis was over the back of him on the exit going left to right and it was the DRS zone.

 

[Terronium-12]

Lewis also gestured at Michael after passing him for defending that same position.

What were you saying again?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

So Alonso finally seems to have gotten his starts down. Hopefully he continues like this and mixes the races up a bit.

 

[Ardius]

No I don't. However I expect the driver in front to give some room which Schumacher, Rosberg Petrov and Hamilton clearly demonstrated and I'm sure a few others. Let me put it this way, if Hamilton never got past but Maldonado gave space, people will say good attempt, Hamilton showing he is a true racer. If he gets past, Hamilton is an excellent overtaker, no space he is an idiot for being there and attempting to overtake and gets a drive through penalty for causing a collision. You could see Hamilton turning to cut the corner / avoid Maldonado before Maldonado completely turns in, but it is understandable from Maldonado's point of view as he didn't look in his mirrors unlike Schumacher who did and gave Hamilton room.

Brundle said the overtake on Schumacher was excellent by Lewis, something similar anyway. However had Schumacher turned in completely, everyone would probably be saying Lewis is the idiot for being there and destroying his race early on and pointing to it being similar to Monza last year. Fine margins of passing but it all depends on if the driver in front gives some room. Maybe it was a bit naive for Hamilton to expect a rookie to have the capacity to look in his mirrors while also spotting a braking point but he should have known something was coming as Lewis was over the back of him on the exit going left to right and it was the DRS zone.

This is more to do with "diving" overtakes in the first place. But I think you'll find some people (myself included) are a little cautious of praising overtakes like that on Schumacher as we normally add on "but he was lucky he saw him coming".
Which I think you'll find Brundle said that too, admitting that while it was a good overtake...it really relied on Schumacher moving over because once Lewis had committed to the move, Schumacher had no choice but to move out of the way.

This I reckon is what the stewards are really penalising him for, making do-or-die overtakes which demand drivers move out of the way. Its not a fair way of conducting your racing and I think you'll find most drivers don't appreciate it. Why? The reason is Maldanado's crash.

 

[The Outlaw]

So Alonso finally seems to have gotten his starts down. Hopefully he continues like this and mixes the races up a bit.

Yea, ever since Spain (where they installed a new clutch) his starts have been superb. Hopefully more to come

 

[aarror]

Didn't Kobayashi do the same thing over and over last year at the Suzuka hairpin? (something so many praised).

Kobayashi only did it once in Suzuka, the second time Alguersuari clearly turned into him after Kobayashi was cleanly alongside him. This was obviously due to frustration on Jaime's part, no fault of Kamui. (Before you critisize me of being biased, I am not a Kobayashi fan, though i do enjoy his driving.) While I don't like to crucify drivers for agressive overtaking attempts, I am thourougly dissapointed in Hamilton today. Especially after divng late for nonexisting gaps on Massa and Maldonado and putting the latter out of the race, he refused to admit his mistakes. I'm fine with it so long as the driver admits that it may have been his fault, but Hamilton blamed it on the other drivers, his team, anybody but himself. That is what i have a problem with. Drivers need to have accountability for their actions.

 

[Terronium-12]

Speaking of the Pastor incident, what was the verdict from the Stewards?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

This is more to do with "diving" overtakes in the first place. But I think you'll find some people (myself included) are a little cautious of praising overtakes like that on Schumacher as we normally add on "but he was lucky he saw him coming".
Which I think you'll find Brundle said that too, admitting that while it was a good overtake...it really relied on Schumacher moving over because once Lewis had committed to the move, Schumacher had no choice but to move out of the way.

This I reckon is what the stewards are really penalising him for, making do-or-die overtakes which demand drivers move out of the way. Its not a fair way of conducting your racing and I think you'll find most drivers don't appreciate it. Why? The reason is Maldanado's crash.

You must be very cautious on praising Kobayashi's overtaking moves then, I'm a fan of his too but even his overtake on Sutil today was a dive down the inside and was not as in control as Hamilton was. He only got a reprimand today though.

I think Brundle said something Schumacher being wise about seeing Hamilton being there and then giving him some space.

His moves did not demand Maldonado or Massa to move out the way, just relied on them giving minimal room for them to both make the corner but he got completely shut off on both attempts. Maldonado's crash was simply because he was not looking in the mirror and did not see Lewis was near him but drivers should be aware in a DRS zone about someone possibly attempting to overtake even if it is opportunistic but it was very similar to the Schumacher one. Lewis got an advantage from making the opportunistic move as he gained Maldonado's place without losing any in the end so his risk paid off in the end as it could be crucial points required to keep him in the title race.

Most drivers don't appreciate it as it puts them in a difficult position to get past and lose position. The reason why the stewards penalised him was him being the car behind and if he stays behind, there would have been no collision and would have all been avoidable. However if Maldonado or Massa gave him slight room, both incidents he would have got no penalty I believe so shows how much the driver in front has got in terms of power. I remember Singapore last year about the clash with Lewis and Mark, had Lewis been the leading car and Webber was attempting a pass, Mark would have been penalised but it went down as a racing incident as Lewis was not fully ahead of Webber before turning in and claiming the position entirely.

On a side not, I have noticed you spell ‘ridiculous’ wrong on many occasions. Not a personal attack or anything I thought you would like to know as I always find the incorrect spelling of ‘ridiculous’ funny as usually in context it is about someone complaining about something. It might help you out in future.

 

[Seismica]

Speaking of the Pastor incident, what was the verdict from the Stewards?

I believe it was a 20 second penalty for Hamilton, but it didn't affect the results.

 

[Terronium-12]

You must be very cautious on praising Kobayashi's overtaking moves then, I'm a fan of his too but even his overtake on Sutil today was a dive down the inside and was not as in control as Hamilton was. He only got a reprimand today though.

I think Brundle said something Schumacher being wise about seeing Hamilton being there and then giving him some space.

His moves did not demand Maldonado or Massa to move out the way, just relied on them giving minimal room for them to both make the corner but he got completely shut off on both attempts. Maldonado's crash was simply because he was not looking in the mirror and did not see Lewis was near him but drivers should be aware in a DRS zone about someone possibly attempting to overtake even if it is opportunistic but it was very similar to the Schumacher one. Lewis got an advantage from making the opportunistic move as he gained Maldonado's place without losing any in the end so his risk paid off in the end as it could be crucial points required to keep him in the title race.

Most drivers don't appreciate it as it puts them in a difficult position to get past and lose position. The reason why the stewards penalised him was him being the car behind and if he stays behind, there would have been no collision and would have all been avoidable. However if Maldonado or Massa gave him slight room, both incidents he would have got no penalty I believe so shows how much the driver in front has got in terms of power. I remember Singapore last year about the clash with Lewis and Mark, had Lewis been the leading car and Webber was attempting a pass, Mark would have been penalised but it went down as a racing incident as Lewis was not fully ahead of Webber before turning in and claiming the position entirely.

On a side not, I have noticed you spell ‘ridiculous’ wrong on many occasions. Not a personal attack or anything I thought you would like to know as I always find the incorrect spelling of ‘ridiculous’ funny as usually in context it is about someone complaining about something. It might help you out in future.

Are you ignoring the fact that Hamilton practically dove in to Massa in the hairpin? What room could he have given him? You wanted Massa to eat the guardrail?

And yes, perhaps Pastor's incident can be chalked up to a rookie mistake but why should he yield to someone who's bearing on the edge just to get by? It was his position and he had every right to defend.

 

[Mike Rotch]

I was very disappointed to see LH’s attitude when I woke up this morning, having gone to bed after the red flag. He is really making himself hard to like when he blames all his misfortune on everybody else, and doesn’t man up and take responsibility.

On the Schumi over take, I’d say it was a 50/50 move and both drivers did a good job up until LH gestured at Schumi. Get over yourself LH. It is also unnotice so far that LH was on the radio whining that Schumi touched him in the first corner, but then continued to run roughshod over most ahead of him under the 'I'm innocent' banner 👎

The Massa one was more dirty driving then aggressive. Brundle said a few laps before that “an overtake into the Hairpin is rare – you try it and have to expect there is a 75% chance you’re going to leave bit n piece on the track if not retire yourself”. LH was half over the curb when he climbed into the side of Ferrari – very petulant to claim he was in the right and it was all unjust. I also think it was bordering on dangerous in the tunnel. If you watch the replay’s, LH emerged from the tunnel on the normal racing line, meaning that instead of hugging the right hand side as one might do to give another racer room if side-by-side action is taking place, he can be interpreted to have squeezed massa off wide, knowing once Massa was on the marbles, it was over. If schumi had done that, the BBC would have been fetching the pitchforks.

On Maldonado, that was dirty driving. What’s the rule – if you can make a clean pass, don’t make it? Doesn’t seem to apply to LH when things arent going his way, its more a case of stick it on the inside and hope the other guy doesn’t turn in.

The final straw was his ‘Ali G’ jibe. What a jerk, joke or not. Playing the race card is as low as it gets. I was cheering LH to be the one to take on SV, but now as much as I don’t like SV, out of those two, he gets my vote.

 

[The Outlaw]

I've watched the Maldonado/Hamilton incident several times now in super slow mo, and from my perspective Pastor was quite clearly trying to cut Hamilton off. From what I see, Pastor turned in quite early (using other cars in the train as a reference point), and basically was aimed to drive right over the middle of the curbing. I assume he was attempting to slam the door on Hamilton, but unfortunately for him it was a bit to late to try to do so.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I was cheering LH to be the one to take on SV, but now as much as I don’t like SV, out of those two, he gets my vote.

+20 Right there with ya. I will still wait and see if Lewis gets his act together. But right now it looks like Ron Dennis should hand him his pacifier.

 

[Seismica]

On the Schumi over take, I’d say it was a 50/50 move and both drivers did a good job up until LH gestured at Schumi. Get over yourself LH. It is also unnotice so far that LH was on the radio whining that Schumi touched him in the first corner, but then continued to run roughshod over most ahead of him under the 'I'm innocent' banner 👎

👍

What was it he said...

"Is your front wing ok Lewis?
Yeah it should be ok. Massa turned in on me, that was on purpose"

You drove into the side of him and then ran him wide onto the marbles in the tunnel. I presume that was by accident eh?

 

[Mike Rotch]

👍

What was it he said...

"Is your front wing ok Lewis?
Yeah it should be ok. Massa turned in on me, that was on purpose"

You drove into the side of him and then ran him wide onto the marbles in the tunnel. I presume that was by accident eh?

I have to admit, I dont quite get what you are saying - you agreeing or disagreeing

 

[Terronium-12]

I have to admit, I dont quite get what you are saying - you agreeing or disagreeing

You'll have to ask Hamilton. He's the one who said it.

EDIT: You changed your original reply now mine makes absolutely no sense.