2012 European Grand Prix

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C-ZETA
You have to love how Ferrari are 4th in the constructors while Alonso leads by 20 in the driver's. Goes to show what Massa is not doing. Yes he had problems today, but regardless, he got beat by Pic.
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Getting clobbered by Kobayashi right after the safety car period will do that. Puncture, nose change, stuck tire, probably other damage. He then had another stop right at the end. Massa was going to end up well into the points if he hadn't gotten clobbered. Do you guys actually watch the races, or just look at the final results?
 
peter_vod69
What kind of racing driver _LETS_ someone through? Maldonado behaved like a moron. Any F1 driver with an ounce of cool and common sense would've realised he had ample opportunity to pass the man in front, especially given the difference in performance between the two at that moment. And then to drive back onto the road to shove Hamilton into the wall? He deserves to be Disqualified, at least.
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That's all well and good, but you have to factor in who you're racing against - we know Maldonado is a maniac, which is precisely why Hamilton shouldn't have taken any risks with him. It could possibly be excused were it the last lap, but with another lap to go there was no way in hell Hamilton was staying ahead, his tyres were totally gone, and when they're like that you may as well be on wet tyres, and you wouldn't fight for position when you're on the wrong compound would you?
 
DaxCobra
This a thousand times.
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Like Brundle said about Senna, once you yielded to him he would see weakness and shove you away every time.
Hamilton can't afford to yield in this position otherwise every driver will try to "punk" him from an off track position in the future:P
 
Some guys are overreacting just a little to the whole Ham-Mal situation. It wasn't too bad of an incident, but it was definitely Maldonado's fault. It was pretty race changing for the most part though.

Also, how many positions did Schumi make up in so little time?
 
ZEROX
Lol. :lol:
Anyway, the chances of him getting penalty is high.
Just look at Kobay incident.
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Will he learn his lesson though? I doubt it. Ginsters is a liability, who is going to cause a serious incident, if he continues like this.
 
Kobayashi? He was to blame in the Senna incident IMO and also crashed into Massa and got away with it. So I think Maldonado has a very good shot of getting away with this too...
 
peter_vod69
What kind of racing driver _LETS_ someone through?
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Plenty. It's a matter of self preservation. Any form of defence, and Lewis was defending aggressively, brings the risk of collision. That's just racing.

It was less of a matter of if but when Hamilton would lose the position.

I'm not applying blame to anyone, just strategically Hamilton could have been better off letting the position go.
 
peter_vod69
...And then to drive back onto the road to shove Hamilton into the wall? He deserves to be Disqualified, at least.
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I don't see the steering move to crash Hamilton deliberately.
FYI, i'm not on either of the drivers side.
 
So based on the hamilton hating everyone should just randomly be shown a blue flag now and again?
 
SagarisGTB
Getting clobbered by Kobayashi right after the safety car period will do that. Puncture, nose change, stuck tire, probably other damage. He then had another stop right at the end. Massa was going to end up well into the points if he hadn't gotten clobbered. Do you guys actually watch the races, or just look at the final results?
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I said he was having problems already prior, but you'd still think he'd be fast enough to overhaul the position he was in.

But then, he is Massa.
 
Dhalism
Like Brundle said about Senna, once you yielded to him he would see weakness and shove you away every time.
Hamilton can't afford to yield in this position otherwise every driver will try to "punk" him from an off track position in the future:P
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On equal tyres yes, but when your tyres have hit the cliff then it becomes stupidity. The racing incident is of course Maldonado's fault, but I take that as a given because he's such a mentalist and i'm personally uncomfortable with him even being allowed to drive an F1 car - so with this taken into account, Hamilton should have given him a wide berth.

I'm speaking from the perspective of a Hamilton fan, so I want him to do as well as possible and maximise his opportunities - he didn't do that today, Maldonado's fault or not.
 
Hamilton problem was probably more overheating the tyres. I think he could have fended off Maldonado especially if Maldonado complied on the corner they crashed as Maldonado would have dropped back quite a bit. Maldonado seemed to have floored it when going on track but not entirely sure, no wonder why t-bone had such a big impact. If he did floor it, then might expect something like a grid penalty for Maldonado.
 
SagarisGTB
Getting clobbered by Kobayashi right after the safety car period will do that. Puncture, nose change, stuck tire, probably other damage. He then had another stop right at the end. Massa was going to end up well in the points if he hadn't gotten clobbered. Do you guys actually watch the races, or just look at the final results?
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I have to agree. People...
 
I was wondering why Schumi would even open the DRS since there was no car in front of him. Might have been a malfunctioning DRS. Wouldn't be the first time either.
 
Maldonado nailed it; Once he was on the kerb there was nothing he could do. Hamilton tried to squeeze him, which he is entitled to do, but that defending showed desperation from Hamilton. Perhaps Maldonado should've shown more patience but then again, Hamilton didn't give Maldonado any room when they were wheel to wheel. He knew they would lose the position which is why he defended so aggressively, but it cost him the race.

I don't think either driver should be penalised, they were both at fault and both penalised themselves for it.
 
Shaggy Alonso
On equal tyres yes, but when your tyres have hit the cliff then it becomes stupidity. The racing incident is of course Maldonado's fault, but I take that as a given because he's such a mentalist and i'm personally uncomfortable with him even being allowed to drive an F1 car - so with this taken into account, Hamilton should have given him a wide berth.

I'm speaking from the perspective of a Hamilton fan, so I want him to do as well as possible and maximise his opportunities - he didn't do that today, Maldonado's fault or not.
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well i don't disagree, i just think it's a situation with no right decisions. ;(
I'm a Hamilton fan too;;
 
ZEROX
I don't see the steering move to crash Hamilton deliberately.
FYI, i'm not on either of the drivers side.
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Maldonado was off the track (all four wheels on the wrong side of the line), and drove back on in an attempt to occupy the same spot (at the same time) as Hamilton's McLaren. The only possible reasons for this are either

A: Steering Failure
B: Hysterical Blindness
C: Maldonado being an impetuous, ham-fisted fool.
 
No matter whether Hamilton shouldnt have battled with Maldonado (which I think he had every right to do) do we all agree Maldonado going off track and coming straight back is dangerous?

If you dont, you're silly.
 
neljack
No matter whether Hamilton shouldnt have battled with Maldonado (which I think he had every right to do) do we all agree Maldonado going off track and coming straight back is dangerous?

If you dont, you're silly.
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This, pretty much.
 
I am just waiting till people blame Lewis for McLarens pitstops.

Anyway best Valencia race ever.
 
Sad for Massa, would have been an okay finish we're it not for the incidents. Really good race from the Caterhams though, really taking the fight to the Torro Rossos.

Was an exciting race, if Valencia can be exciting I can't wait the rest of the season.
 
1 Fernando Alonso 111
2 Mark Webber 91
3 Lewis Hamilton 88
4 Sebastian Vettel 85
5 Nico Rosberg 75
6 Kimi Räikkönen 73
7 Romain Grosjean 53
8 Jenson Button 49
9 Sergio Perez 39
10 Pastor Maldonado 30
 

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