Here I'm still wondering why there has been so much Alonso hype latelly, IMO he still lacks in some areas like race pace(I don't think Ferraris are that out of pace either, Massa has been competitive in some occassions through the season, so it's his lack of pace is not down to his car).
Not sure what to make from Saturday's results(could not see the race), is nice to see Kimi winning(and is hugely entertaining to see him on the post race conference), impressive pace by Vettel(from 24th to 3rd, you should have something than a good car to acomplish that), and some good pace by Alonso(I guess).
All things given, I still think that Vettel will win the WDC(not Vettel fanboy, actually more of a Button fanboy), his race pace has been pretty damn good over the last few races. I honestly expected him to win this race, and even secure this year's title, I guess that will have to wait until Brazil.
Eitherway, is shaping up to be an exciting end of season.
So, do we think Williams will catch Force India? Not as close as Sauber is to Mercedes and they don't have the pace advantage, but its possible.
[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Blue"]5 Mercedes 136
6 Sauber 124[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Green"]7 Force India 95
8 Williams 73[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]
He drove into Bruno Senna and damaged his front wing. He drove into a trackside sign while behind a safety car and wrecked his front wing - blaming Daniel Ricciardo for it. In his frustration he overtook Romain Grosjean by driving completely off the inside of the track - and had to give the place back.
He made a really very good pass on Jenson Button three laps from the end (though Button kept him at bay for 6 laps before that) but it was far from "excellent" - or even "good" - driving to that point. He acquired his position through the actions of others - Hamilton's mechanical failure and the Perez/Di Resta/Grosjean/Webber incident bringing out the safety car just after he'd pitted from the wrong call on his tyres. Let's face it, the Toro Rossos wouldn't hold him up (either time) and Webber was told not to and then brought into the pits so he wouldn't.
Everyone needs luck - nothing wrong with inheriting places through luck - but luckiness doesn't equal goodness. He did well to get where he was, but it wasn't an excellent drive and it wasn't his best. It was his luckiest.
^^^I think you are just a Force India hater, shame on you for placing such a question, I can't believe how biased some people can be on the internet!
Because he is Alonso fanboy and he would give Vettel a stop and go 10sec',sorry,20sec penalty!
I swear that you wouldn't said this if Alonso cruise to victory every race:tdown:
Give me one sentence when you don't mention or imply anything about Alonso and that's when people will actually take you seriously:tdown:
I think Sauber could overtake the Mercs if Mercedes continues to have no luck and out-of-points finishes and DNFs.
Force India seem consistent, I don't think Williams could beat them by the end of the season.
Alonso is a very good driver but this thread is full of Vettel haters like you:tdown:
and please put me in your ignore list!I already did for you..............
ArdiusI guess the difference between the two is that Button is more well-liked and that it all happened on the last lap for victory.
Here I'm still wondering why there has been so much Alonso hype latelly, IMO he still lacks in some areas like race pace(I don't think Ferraris are that out of pace either, Massa has been competitive in some occassions through the season, so it's his lack of pace is not down to his car).
.......
nikyVery hard to make the argument that it isn't the car, considering Massa lags Alonso by a good 5/10ths most of the time.
Alonso has history. He's shown the ability (since his Renault days) of throwing out an amazing qualifying lap and of driving incredible defense.
Okay, so maybe that's part car, but he went to McLaren and up against Hamilton, who is now acknowledged as being an incredible qualifier, and it was an absolute dead heat. He was frustrated, emotional, angry, and he still managed results.
He went back to Renault, who had a dog of a car when he left, and helped bring them back up into slight contention, then left for Ferrari. At Ferrari, he has consistently been challenging for qualifying positions several places higher than Massa, who can only get close to him when he's comfortable with the car (much like Button with Hamilton).
Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are three of the guys on the grid that we are absolutely sure can eke 11/10ths out of their respective cars. In MotoGP we'd call them "wizards", and that fits. But there's only so much a "wizard" can do. Alonso has been hampered this season by the car's utter lack of race end pace. The Ferrari fell off the cliff more often than the Red Bull or the McLaren at the end of a close fight. Lately, it seems he's been racing his nuts off. Imagine pushing 10/10ths all race long, then finding a little extra pace to close up on the race leader in the closing laps on knackered tires.
That's amazing.
I don't know about Vettel, because we've never seen him in anything but a Red Bull or a Torro Rosso, but guys like Hammy and Alonso seem to be able to adapt to bad cars better than others. Alonso was noted for his "violent turn-in" during his time at Renault. A spectacular style that was very unorthodox. That didn't suit the McLaren, so he adapted his style and kept at the sharp end. Then he went to Ferrari. For the past two years, it has seemed like an unstable car. He adapted, and he's put it on nearly even footing with the undeniably superior Red Bull and McLaren competition.
Who knows how much of Ferrari's results are due to the car? But given his history, I'd say Fernando has earned his reputation as a gifted, if churlish, prima donna-ish and tempermental driver.
You're missing the point a lot of people have tried to make about Vettel's drive. He started 24th and finished 3rd, but he didn't really fight his way up to 3rd. Safety cars, retirements, penalties, and Grosjean did most of it all for him.Honestly, as much as luck greatly contributed to Vettel's storming drive, you still have to admit, 24th to 3rd is quite a feat he has achieved, especially after all the talk of Vettel 'not being able to race up the order'.
Besides, it's not like Button was fantastically 'clean' on his way from dead last to 1st in Canada was he? In order to make so many overtakes in such a short span of time, one is bound to be a little scrappy IMO.
One still needs to know how to make great use of the luck given to make up places, otherwise it's pointless. And I think Vettel has done very well in that respect, especially under those circumstances, where anything minute could've easily spoiled his race.
Peter.You're missing the point a lot of people have tried to make about Vettel's drive. He started 24th and finished 3rd, but he didn't really fight his way up to 3rd. Safety cars, retirements, penalties, and Grosjean did most of it all for him.
Safety cars, retirements, penalties, and Grosjean did most of it all for him.
Very hard to make the argument that it isn't the car, considering Massa lags Alonso by a good 5/10ths most of the time.
Alonso has history. He's shown the ability (since his Renault days) of throwing out an amazing qualifying lap and of driving incredible defense.
Okay, so maybe that's part car, but he went to McLaren and up against Hamilton, who is now acknowledged as being an incredible qualifier, and it was an absolute dead heat. He was frustrated, emotional, angry, and he still managed results.
He went back to Renault, who had a dog of a car when he left, and helped bring them back up into slight contention, then left for Ferrari. At Ferrari, he has consistently been challenging for qualifying positions several places higher than Massa, who can only get close to him when he's comfortable with the car (much like Button with Hamilton).
Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are three of the guys on the grid that we are absolutely sure can eke 11/10ths out of their respective cars. In MotoGP we'd call them "wizards", and that fits. But there's only so much a "wizard" can do. Alonso has been hampered this season by the car's utter lack of race end pace. The Ferrari fell off the cliff more often than the Red Bull or the McLaren at the end of a close fight. Lately, it seems he's been racing his nuts off. Imagine pushing 10/10ths all race long, then finding a little extra pace to close up on the race leader in the closing laps on knackered tires.
That's amazing.
I don't know about Vettel, because we've never seen him in anything but a Red Bull or a Torro Rosso, but guys like Hammy and Alonso seem to be able to adapt to bad cars better than others. Alonso was noted for his "violent turn-in" during his time at Renault. A spectacular style that was very unorthodox. That didn't suit the McLaren, so he adapted his style and kept at the sharp end. Then he went to Ferrari. For the past two years, it has seemed like an unstable car. He adapted, and he's put it on nearly even footing with the undeniably superior Red Bull and McLaren competition.
Who knows how much of Ferrari's results are due to the car? But given his history, I'd say Fernando has earned his reputation as a gifted, if churlish, prima donna-ish and tempermental driver.
If you don't have anything to say except to accuse other GTP members of being "fanboys", then don't say anything.
The word "fanboy" is already worth an instant infraction in the GT5 subforum because of bickering over Forza. We don't want to see similar happen here.
Argue the points. Period.
👍👍:tup:but he won't get it,or better,he don't want to admitt itAgain with this... First safety car, from 12th to 20th. Second safety car, from 4th to 4th. Yes, it wiped out a 15 second gap to Button, but it is hardly like he jumped up significantly through the order like you seem to believe. And Grosjean wasn't at fault for that incident.
I wasn't the first one who has used the word "fanboy" in this topic!but I'm sorry for that and I won't use it again!
Let's say Alonso fans?blinded Alonso fans?
I wasn't the first one who has used the word "fanboy" in this topic!but I'm sorry for that and I won't use it again!
Let's say Alonso fans?blinded Alonso fans?
Let's just say that nobody has actually pointed to Alonso and said: "If he were driving that car." and leave it at that. If you want to debate people who are saying Vettel didn't drive great, fine.
Just don't call them names. Argue the point, not the man.
Thank you.
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I agree that Vettel drove a fine second half of the race. The main criticism of people here is that his first half of the race was garbage. Truthfully, it was. But this is why I gave a drive-of-the-day to Vettel. Most people, once strung with a run of rotten luck and sloppy driving, would simply continue on driving badly. Vettel didn't. He put his head down and drove hard and fast to claim that podium. He had a lot of luck, but he certainly pulled it together at the end.
I'd say Fernando has earned his reputation as a gifted, if churlish, prima donna-ish and tempermental driver.
Honestly, I think people are making far too much of this "Perez has nosedived since signing for McLaren" thing.
A few things spring to mind:
1) He couldn't see Grosjean. The sides of a car are quite high, and the driver's head is held in place by the HANS device and bodywork around the cockpit, so he doesn't get to move around. Grosjean could have been in his blindspot.
2) He was running out of room. There is no real run-off (if any at all) at that next corner, and Perez may have felt that he didn't have time to slow down befor he hit the wall; therefore, rejoining the circuit at speed was the only option, but the problem was that while he was going too fast to stop in time, he wasn't going fast enough to beat Grosjean.
Honestly, I think people are making far too much of this "Perez has nosedived since signing for McLaren" thing. He slipped up in Japan, but if he hadn't signed for McLaren, nothing would be made of it. He had a dull race in Korea, but I believe he took some damage early on. He got caught in the crossfire in India, and was forced out with damage after Ricciardo tagged him. And while the thing in Abu Dhabi was silly, it's been the only genuinely-silly mistake.