2012 Formula One Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by astrosdude91, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. HeXoSKEL3t0n

    HeXoSKEL3t0n

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    The F2012 has been noted to have better race pace, but even though Alonso has been very good in making good use of it to gain positions, it still looks like a very uphill battle for Alonso to clinch his third title.

    Ferrari and Alonso would really need to throw in their everything together as a whole team for Alonso to be able to nab that title. It's certainly going to be very interesting...
     
  2. Signal52

    Signal52

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    He comes off that way at times (it's Kimi), but I think he clearly showed this race weekend that his emotions do get wound up. It was great to see him hold on for the victory, and I felt like his drive was intense, especially going down to the last lap.
     
  3. homeforsummer

    homeforsummer Premium

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    I can't tell whether that's a direct response to my question, or simply the start of another point.

    If it's the former then no part of my response said it was only about having a fast car.

    If it's the latter, then in McLaren's case it's reliability. I've no doubt at all that without the myriad cock-ups and breakdowns Hamilton has had all year he'd be right up there with Vettel and Alonso. Bad luck has robbed Hamilton of a couple of wins and a few podiums too*. Even Button may have scored a few more points, though I don't think he'd be competing for the title this year as he just doesn't seem to be as happy with the car.

    As for Webber, he's not as quick as Vettel, simple as that. But then Massa isn't as quick as Alonso either, and he's been even further down the grid as a result.

    It's pretty simple as far as I can see: Alonso has driven the wheels off the car all season to get where he is. Vettel has done likewise, but he's also had comfortably the better car in the latter part of the season, so has been able to capitalise on it more.

    * Of course, bad luck has also claimed Vettel and Alonso on a few occasions each too, but I doubt anyone would say they've had it on the same level as Hamilton.
     
  4. Ardius

    Ardius

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    So, 12 points between Mercedes and Sauber for 5th in the WCC. Do we think Sauber can manage it?
     
  5. homeforsummer

    homeforsummer Premium

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    Well the way everyone is driving it seems like nobody wants it!

    If Schumacher and Rosberg stay on the track they shouldn't have too much trouble getting 5th. But if Perez pulls out a blinder at one of the next couple of tracks and Merc screws up... who knows?
     
  6. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Mercedes have been pretty poor pace-wise this 2nd half of the season (barely making top 10 pace and dicing with Toro Rossos) and they're clearly not developing their car much.

    Sauber on the other hand have frequently been top 10 on pace but suffer either from poor strategy, mistakes from the drivers or just random poor pace at certain track layouts.

    I think Sauber can do it, but it depends on if the car works well at Austin and Interlagos.
     
  7. Centura

    Centura Premium

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    I think so.

    The two remaining tracks require good medium and high-speed aero performance and as we know already, Sauber do well at those kind of tracks.
     
  8. gogatrs

    gogatrs

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    There is only room for one rooster at Ferrari.
     
  9. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    Said the man that wants no stone unturned and demands from the whole team what he says Alonso is already giving: 120%. Oh and he also has some nice words for Vettel.

    Should Stefano Domenicali be worried? I will 'bold' the relevant parts


     
  10. gogatrs

    gogatrs

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    Did the same number of engineers that went into the room come out?
     
  11. niky

    niky Moderator

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    :lol: If Italians believed in seppuku, that would have been a bloody meeting.

    The Ferrari upgrades were indeed a disappointment. Red Bull and McLaren seem to forever be half-a-second ahead in terms of one-lap pace over the Ferrari. Going to be a long off-season for Ferrari's chassis engineers.
     
  12. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    I think so, "contract terminations" in Italy are never made in elegant meeting rooms, carpets are not to be spoiled :lol:
     
  13. Hugo Boss

    Hugo Boss Staff Emeritus

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    If you can be so utterly relaxed as Kimi when driving a F1 car, doesn't that make you mentally strong? To me that's about the same in this situation. When Alonso was coming closer and closer, Kimi didn't start to overdrive the car. He kept on getting his lines and braking points right and won the race. You need some mental strength for that.

    He couldn't do much about about losing his front end-plate. Maybe he should watch the races like we do, then he would know how rubbish Senna is in traffic and be even more careful. Running into that DRS sign wasn't that pretty no, although Ricciardo did act like a fool there. The gap to the guy in front was huge, way over 5 car lengths.
    He sure showed patience trying to overtake Button. A sign of mental strength to me, nothing mindless about that. It resulted in for me the most beautiful pass of the race. It's not as spectacular as overtaking before Eau Rouge, but overtaking doesn't get any more difficult than the one Vettel made.

    Since you're not a fanboy, I take it you didn't watch the race at Canada last year? Vettel was running a wet setup and created a comfy lead in the beginning of the race. That lead disappeared because of the safety car. After the last safety car went in, Vettel managed to create a decent lead again. The team then told him to control his pace, while Button was still storming through the field. It came as a surprise to Red Bull that Button suddenly made it to 2nd and with his intermediate setup on a drying track he closed in on Vettel quickly. Vettel took all risks at the last few laps to keep Button behind him and marginally went over the limit. Although he got overtaken by Button there, it didn't cost him the win. Unless Button would have made an error somewhere up until the DRS zone, but that would have been unlikely. The McLaren was mighty at the back straight and with Button being within the DRS distance, he would have passed Vettel easily there.
    I don't understand why people blame Vettel for that moment. It was a tactical error from the team in the first place to slow Vettel down (otherwise he would have won easily) and I can only have respect for Vettel going flat out in those conditions trying not to lose that race. While I was watching the race I felt he never would have been able to keep Button behind. His tiny error only allowed Button to take the lead earlier.

    Although Vettel is by no means my favourite driver (don't have one in F1) and I don't rate Vettel above Alonso or Raïkkönen, it still annoys me sometimes that so many people look down upon his performances and twist things in Vettels disadvantage so often.

    You can't blame Vettel for that. Hamilton, Webber, Button and even Maldonado 'cruised' to (some of) their victories this season. Was that painful to watch too? That's what great drivers do when they start at the front and the car works perfectly.

    You can only blame Newey/Red Bull for making the most progress this season and building a car that works on the majority of tracks. Still, it's by no means superior. You need a highly talented driver like Vettel to perform so well. Otherwise Webber would still be in contention for the drivers championship.
     
  14. RX-7_FD3S

    RX-7_FD3S

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    I dont agree, he's responsible for both mistake for me. He's the one that went and hit Senna, Bruno did absolutely nothing there and he admit he did a mistake behind the pace car as well. Ricciardo didnt got a penalty which he would have if he was the one that did a mistake, especially on Vettel.

    I dont dislike him, he's a really good driver for me, he did some crazy things (in a good way) this year even if his car was always in the top 3 if you're talking about racing pace. I also liked very much his overtake on Alonso last year in Monza. So yeah he's a good driver but you can't go blindfold neither and said he didnt do any mistake in Abu Dhabi.
     
  15. F1 fan

    F1 fan Premium

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    I disagree. Vettel had a backmarker in front of him and senna made the overtake. Vettel was on the inside, senna in the middle and the backmarker on the outside. We ended up with three cars going in to a tight corner at the same time. Racing incident IMO.
     
  16. HeXoSKEL3t0n

    HeXoSKEL3t0n

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    I was just trying to use that question to emphasise my point on how it is a team effort when it comes to winning championships, it is never just only about a driver's ability (Alonso) or the car's pace (Vettel).

    That's why that even though the Mclaren has generally had a strong car throughout the season, their drivers' haven't been able to keep up with the title battle due to obvious operational errors.

    That's also why Webber isn't in the title battle too, because he hasn't been able to capitalise on the RB8's strong surge in form recently, and failed to minimise points lost from a less competitive RB8 mid-season.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  17. homeforsummer

    homeforsummer Premium

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    It depends. You don't need mental strength to be apathetic about something, and Kimi's coolness often seems to approach apathy.

    It sounds like you're making excuses for him. He could easily have avoided knocking his endplate off, by not trying to overtake a driver who himself was in the middle of an overtake. It's easy to knock Senna at the moment, but he can't be blamed for Vettel running into the back of him in the middle of a corner. It was poor judgement on Vettel's part.

    And as for Ricciardo, Vettel said himself post race "I probably should have paid more attention". Yes, he should.

    Of course, in retrospect that didn't matter anyway as coming in for a new wing and some softer tyres improved his pace somewhat. But it was nothing but a mistake borne from not really considering his surroundings.

    Patience? Looked more like inability to get past, to me. And it was no doubt a great pass, but one which relied very heavily on Button not being a dimwit (Vettel again: "Not many other drivers would have given me the space"). It blurred the line between judgement and luck, that's for sure.

    All 4.5 hours of it, or however long it was with the rain break.

    Tiny or big is irrelevant: It was an error which essentially cost him the lead of the race. Whether Button would have screamed past later in the lap is academic - what we saw is Vettel under pressure, cracking.

    And if you've been following my posts, you'll be aware that I constantly praise his speed, skill, attitude off-track etc - but it's of no benefit to anyone for people (fanboy or not) to ignore the stuff he's not so good at - a chunk of which involves any time he's under pressure or in traffic.

    Seriously, Vettel is very good indeed, but he's not the Messiah. His charge through the field at Abu Dhabi was very impressive indeed, but as Famine has already said on several occasions, some of his driving was incredibly poorly judged. He was lucky not to take himself out of the race on two occasions. If he has mental strength it's in his ability to make life difficult for himself yet still scrape a good result from a weekend.

    If anything, he looked better by comparison at that weekend. So many drivers were driving even worse that Vettel's race looked fairly incident-free...
     
  18. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Like he displayed behind Grosjean...
     
  19. Centura

    Centura Premium

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    I never heard Red Bull saying they gave Vettel or Webber a wet setup. However, McLaren said that because there was a 60% chance of rain on race day, they went for a wet setup.
     
  20. Submerged

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    I think the stewards should have penalised Vettel for going off the track as Vettel knew full well what he was doing at that time (going off track to overtake someone).

    Also, he was under serious pressure to try and get to the front with no consideration for other drivers as well. That did not make me feel happy when I was watching the overtakes and the rather brusque overtakes he did at time.

    It kinda felt like a professional foul, as in Vettel wanted to unsettle Grosjean by getting past off the circuit, so when he makes his next legal overtake on Grosjean again, he would be mindful to let him by. It kinda felt like that to me.
     
  21. Fryto

    Fryto

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    This tweet from Jenson Button made me chuckle:

    Jenson Button ‏@JensonButton
    Congrats to Kimi who's head I'm sure is still hurting after Sunday night! ;)
     
  22. Centura

    Centura Premium

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    Why? They learned from their mistake in Germany and quickly gave him the position back.
     
  23. HeXoSKEL3t0n

    HeXoSKEL3t0n

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    He gave back the place to Grosjean before completing that lap, as per instructed.

    Vettel then went on to overtake Grosjean fair and square the following lap.

    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/11/05/2012-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-lap-charts/
     
  24. Liquid

    Liquid Premium

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    Well, what a race from a track I thought was similar to Boreain. Excellent win for Raikkonen, but Hamilton just doesn't have any luck at the moment.

    Being an Alonso fan, I'm naturally pleased with the points he picked up but Vettel drove a blinder to come up all the way to 3rd, even if he does use the very limits of the track and beyond.

    We have an interesting finale coming up.
     
  25. RX-7_FD3S

    RX-7_FD3S

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    I just rewatch it and I still think it's a mistake from Vettel, he had a much faster car and he was a bit impatient there. It's a 3 people racing atm and he has a world title in sight, noon of the other drivers are rivals so it was a big risk to not just let Senna pass and overtake him on next DRS zone.
    It's not a kamikaze move or anything I agree but still he shouldnt have taken that risk since he's still fighting for the 1st place of the driver championship.

    http://youtu.be/iu1B94NBBV0
     
  26. Centura

    Centura Premium

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    Honestly, it looked like Vettel backed out of it because Senna was so much faster on that straight, but then Senna backed out of it and I guess Vettel got surprised by that.
     
  27. homeforsummer

    homeforsummer Premium

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    ^ This. Was poor form from Vettel but RBR were quick to correct it, so there's no reason to punish Vettel for it.

    The silly thing for Vettel was that he was blatantly quicker than Grosjean anyway, and showed that when he passed him the next lap. He didn't need to pass Grosjean illegally, he just did so out of frustration. Just like he did with Button at Germany.
     
  28. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    I don't think one should criticize Vettel too much for that rather minor incident (although it was a bit careless given what was on the line), but at the same time I'd say he was mostly at fault for the collision, being that he tried to squeeze through the inside at the last moment (but carried too much speed into the apex) , while having a clear view of Senna's trajectory (which wasn't really eradicate or unpredictable).
     
  29. wajdi1977

    wajdi1977

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    Because he is Alonso fanboy and he would give Vettel a stop and go 10sec',sorry,20sec penalty!
    I swear that you wouldn't said this if Alonso cruise to victory every race:tdown:
     
  30. Signal52

    Signal52

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    Give it a rest man. :lol: