2012 Formula One Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

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How did I miss this? :lol::lol:
 
Judging by how completely exhausted Alonso looked immediately after the race I would say that he had to work extremely hard the whole race to end up in second. Might have been his best drive of the season.
 
SilverArrow
If Bruno Senna could finish in 8th after facing the wrong way at turn 1 then it should be expected for Vettel to finish higher than that. If Grosjean wasn't holding up a long train of cars, he would've had to overtake maybe 5 other people.

Aah..Bruno Senna, the most overrated sportsman since Wayne Rooney!
 
phil_75
Aah..Bruno Senna, the most overrated sportsman since Wayne Rooney!

Isn't that supposed to be Alonso?

It's not like the F2012 that Alonso 'seems to be overdriving 200%' is the same dog that he used to drag up the order at the start of the season... It has clearly improved into a strong, reliable car easily capable of placing top 5 consistently throughout the season .(since the huge Mugello update), unlike rivals like Red Bull or Mclaren, who had been suffering from various fluctuations pace wise.
 
????

SilverArrow was merely pointing out that Bruno Senna, a midfield pack driver got to 8th place after his first lap collision and was actually behind Vettel when Vettel left the pits.
 
Submerged
????

SilverArrow was merely pointing out that Bruno Senna, a midfield pack driver got to 8th place after his first lap collision and was actually behind Vettel when Vettel left the pits.

I was only referring to phil and many others typically underrating Senna's performances due to his 'name'

Sure he may not be setting the motorsport world on fire, unlike his legendary uncle, but seriously, how many people has been actually capable of emulating his success? His uncle is one of those great legends, not many drivers can achieve that kind of reputation easily.

He may not be spectacularly great, or championship material (sadly), but I think he has managed to do a fair job as a driver. No need to berate him for 'subpar' performances compared to his great uncle.
 
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Short memoryatism.

Webber and Alonso were the favourites for champions in 2010. RBR managed to pit Webber out of contention and Ferrari blundered into doing the same, allowing SV to ghost into the win at the Marina that year. He wasn't under pressure as he wasn't the favourite.

True.
 
prisonermonkeys
There, I fixed it for you.

That depends on one's interpretations.

You interpret it as rude, we interpret it as funny, and just as Kimi being himself.

Lighten up PM, no need to be so uptight there...
 
I had given up on this F1 thing already! I was wrong.

Gutted for Hamilton. He was dominant, he had "the formula" for this race, he had traction, he had it in the bag.:ouch:

Thrilled for Kimi. He had it coming and drove a perfect race. One usually says you don't win races in T1, but he actually did. Gained 2nd there which then turned into 1st. Radio was awesome. He's just "raw" like that, and one can't say his team have been very helpfully on the radio this year.

Ferrari was back to being a dog this weekend and Alonso still got to second. And as many of you noticed, he was exhausted. Just like last race, he drove every lap almost as if it were a qualifier, and still managed his tyres. Drive of the day (year) for me.

As for Vettel. Well, Senna did a good job. Kobayashi did a good job. And so did Seb. For him to actually do a great job, the drive of the day, considering his car, his recognized speed and the lucky pace-car timings he got, he should have finished at least ahead of Alonso. People say "drive of the day" while complaining Grosjean and others were "in his way" for too long, and he was "unlucky" with that wing breaking. If he was that great as fanboys make him, he would've finished even better with that car. Like he himself said, a podium was expected. Still did a good job, and was the best result of the day 👍

But that's just for the driving. Because as far as the "persona" goes, screaming on the radio (remember Button a couple races when he almost took Seb out under pace-car?), podium interview arrogance, the completely out of place f* word, champagne on Coulthards back... About to win the WDC for the 3rd time, still acting like a spoiled wannabe trying to prove himself and to be cool. Was it just my impression or did the crowd go from crazy with Kimi to very cold on him? 👎

Honorable mention to Pastor. Did a very good race, especially considering he lost Kers and kept his nose (almost completely) clean.

About the racing incidents, they were just that:
- Pastor for once did nothing wrong (he's not supposed to just roll over when a RedBull tries to pass)
- Massa and Webber were just too hard at it
- Perez penalty is only deserved because he can't come from off-track and claim the apex with another car already diving in there. And Grosjean was not made the scapegoat. Good.

Actually, pretty good marshal steward decisions this weekend, and a great race.
 
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Actually, pretty good marshal steward decisions this weekend, and a great race.


Marshals don't make the decisions, they just report the incident, say what they saw and then let the stewards also look at it and decide on a decision.
 
I had given up on this F1 thing already! I was wrong.

Gutted for Hamilton. He was dominant, he had "the formula" for this race, he had traction, he had it in the bag.:ouch:

Thrilled for Kimi. He had it coming and drove a perfect race. One usually says you don't win races in T1, but he actually did. Gained 2nd there which then turned into 1st. Radio was awesome. He's just "raw" like that, and one can't say his team have been very helpfully on the radio this year.

Ferrari was back to being a dog this weekend and Alonso still got to second. And as many of you noticed, he was exhausted. Just like last race, he drove every lap almost as if it were a qualifier, and still managed his tyres. Drive of the day (year) for me.

As for Vettel. Well, Senna did a good job. Kobayashi did a good job. And so did Seb. For him to actually do a great job, the drive of the day, considering his car, his recognized speed and the lucky pace-car timings he got, he should have finished at least ahead of Alonso. People say "drive of the day" while complaining Grosjean and others were "in his way" for too long, and he was "unlucky" with that wing breaking. If he was that great as fanboys make him, he would've finished even better with that car. Like he himself said, a podium was expected. Still did a good job, and was the best result of the day 👍

But that's just for the driving. Because as far as the "persona" goes, screaming on the radio (remember Button a couple races when he almost took Seb out under pace-car?), podium interview arrogance, the completely out of place f* word, champagne on Coulthards back... About to win the WDC for the 3rd time, still acting like a spoiled wannabe trying to prove himself and to be cool. Was it just my impression or did the crowd go from crazy with Kimi to very cold on him? 👎

Honorable mention to Pastor. Did a very good race, especially considering he lost Kers and kept his nose (almost completely) clean.

About the racing incidents, they were just that:
- Pastor for once did nothing wrong (he's not supposed to just roll over when a RedBull tries to pass)
- Massa and Webber were just too hard at it
- Perez penalty is only deserved because he can't come from off-track and claim the apex with another car already diving in there. And Grosjean was not made the scapegoat. Good.

Actually, pretty good marshal decisions this weekend, and a great race.

Lolllllllllllll........what?ohhh my godness, he was 24° and ends 3°!Webber was 2° and end....where?yes he was lucky with the 2 safety car,but guys,he ends 3°!Alonso was 6° and end 2° with Webber driving like an amateur pilot,Hamilton retired,Maldonado with no Kers and Alonso was,even beaten by Hakkinen/Lotus!
Woww..... and you have called us Vettel fanboys?!!
 
Lolllllllllllll........what?ohhh my godness, he was 24° and ends 3°!Webber was 2° and end....where?yes he was lucky with the 2 safety car,but guys,he ends 3°!Alonso was 6° and end 2° with Webber driving like an amateur pilot,Hamilton retired,Maldonado with no Kers and Alonso was,even beaten by Hakkinen/Lotus!
Woww..... and you have called us Vettel fanboys?!!

Can anyone actually take this guy seriously considering he thinks the guy who won this race was someone who retired 11 years ago.
 
Woww..... and you have called us Vettel fanboys?!!

The guy who picks out a handful of anti-Vettel words from a several paragraph post? Yes, I think fanboy is an appropriate term...

Isn't that supposed to be Alonso?

It's not like the F2012 that Alonso 'seems to be overdriving 200%' is the same dog that he used to drag up the order at the start of the season... It has clearly improved into a strong, reliable car easily capable of placing top 5 consistently throughout the season .(since the huge Mugello update), unlike rivals like Red Bull or Mclaren, who had been suffering from various fluctuations pace wise.

I'd not even slightly say Alonso is overrated, and certainly not this season.

No, the Ferrari is not a dog at the moment, but it's probably only the fourth fastest car on the grid (Behind McLaren, Red Bull and Lotus).

The Ferrari started off this season fairly poorly. It obviously improved over the first half of the season, but the other teams have certainly overtaken it for pace in the second half - McLaren has made absolute leaps, and Red Bull even more so considering the average start that Vettel and Webber had this season.

Taking the two quickest from those teams - Hamilton and Vettel - I'd not say they've been suffering "fluctuations" in pace. They've been consistently two of the quickest drivers throughout the second half of the season - only reliability has been questionable in some instances.

Alonso's car has had great reliability, but it's now not really quick enough to let him compete for the title. And he's looked absolutely knackered after the last few finishes, suggesting he's working rather hard to keep it where it is.
 
Correct, but lets play the stupid "if" game. Lets say all the same stupid incidents and collisions happened, but no safety cars, he would've probably ended up 4th.

Before the safety car, Vettel was behind the leader by 25 seconds.
During the safety car, Vettel was behind the leader by 13 seconds.
After he fell asleep and drove in to the DRS sign like a jackass and forced himself in to a pitstop, he was put at the back of the field and was behind the leader by 23 seconds.

So, that safety car did absolutely nothing for him because of him being a jackass.
Before the second safety car, he already had the fourth place. All the second safety car did for him was give him the opportunity to get third place, which he did.

Newey mentioned after the race that they were actually planning to not change his front wing because it wouldn't have been worth the extra 5 - 7 seconds that it cost during a pit stop. Well, until he damaged it further...

Honestly, I think he could've finished even further up if he didn't hit that DRS sign because that forced him in to a two stop race.

I don't think he would have finished higher up without hitting that DRS sign. The factor you forget is that because he had to change his front wing, he was forced to proceed on the soft compound for two more stints to still try and make something of his race. Vettel was then lucky to have Grosjean hold Maldonado, Webber and Perez/Di Resta(?) up so he rejoined the track before them after his pitstop. The second safety car then made the gap to Button vanish.
On the hard compound he would have ended up in faster traffic that is harder and more dangerous to pass. Now with the soft compound he could make up time more quickly and pass many drivers while they were in the pits. It all played into his hands.

Short memoryatism.

Webber and Alonso were the favourites for champions in 2010. RBR managed to pit Webber out of contention and Ferrari blundered into doing the same, allowing SV to ghost into the win at the Marina that year. He wasn't under pressure as he wasn't the favourite.

You're only taking the last race into account here, that's not fair. With 6 races to go, Webber, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and Button were all in the race for the championship. So it's fair to say they were all under pressure. In those last 6 races, Vettel scored a 4th and a 2nd place and then went on to manage 3 wins and he had to retire once while he was leading the race. He also started from pole 3 times. In my opinion he's shown that he's able to cope with the pressure. He delivered when he needed to and even after the bad luck in Korea, he didn't make any stupid mistakes and won the last two races. Before the last race Webber and Alonso might have been under even more pressure than Vettel, but Vettel was the only one who didn't crack.

From my view, Vettel, Alonso and Räikkönen are the three strongest drivers mentally, (coincidentally?) also the top three in the WDC. So I think we're up for a great end of the season :)
 
A litle off topic

I am somewhat amazed at the difference of results achieved by team mates.

Famine is probably the man to do a comprehensive study on the matter, and his "corrected" WCC table does help, but the plain truth is that, almost every race of the 2012 championship:

You can't compare what Alonso achieves with what Massa achieves

Same thing with Vettel and Webber

Same thing with Kimi and Grosjean

McLaren is the only top team where the drivers are consistenly up there, with Hamilton having the advantage of superior qualifying skills.

Further down the grid you have much more balanced driver pairings, with the exception f Williams, where we have a sort of "Ham-Button" situation too.
 
From my view, Vettel, Alonso and Räikkönen are the three strongest drivers mentally, (coincidentally?) also the top three in the WDC. So I think we're up for a great end of the season :)

Raikkonen isn't so much mentally strong as utterly relaxed. It's hard to really judge his personality but there's an element of him thinking merely "meh" when another car is breathing down his neck. Alonso has matured massively in the last few years.

Vettel? Certainly has the determination, the skill and the Schumacher-like ability to fire off a dozen qualifying-style laps when he needs to. But daft little mistakes like the one which removed his end-plate and the one which collected some polystyrene track-side furniture, doesn't yet speak of mental strength when he's not right at the front of the grid. Let's not forget his half-spin at Canada last year while being chased by Button too - almost certainly lost him the win. And his passing frequently errs towards mindless - as if his brain switches off when he's required to overtake someone.

What I do like is Vettel's attitude out of the car. His "we just have to get on with it" type comments on his qualifying disqualification were really admirable, and bang on the money.

It's a pity some of the young'uns on the grid are a bit scrappy at the mo because a few of them certainly have the speed. Perez is quick but seems to have been less consistent recently. Maldonado is finally calming down. Even di Resta is one of the quicker chaps out there I reckon, but he seems to get demoralised easily when things don't go his way.
 
A litle off topic

I am somewhat amazed at the difference of results achieved by team mates.

Famine is probably the man to do a comprehensive study on the matter, and his "corrected" WCC table does help, but the plain truth is that, almost every race of the 2012 championship:

You can't compare what Alonso achieves with what Massa achieves

Same thing with Vettel and Webber

Same thing with Kimi and Grosjean

McLaren is the only top team where the drivers are consistenly up there, with Hamilton having the advantage of superior qualifying skills.

Further down the grid you have much more balanced driver pairings, with the exception f Williams, where we have a sort of "Ham-Button" situation too.

Quite interesting, Force India would probably come into that bracket too. Hulky and Resta are fairly evenly matched.

Although lately things have evened out at Ferrari and Red Bull to an extent. Massa has upped his game since his contract renewal.

Do you think it was a conscious decision by the teams? By this I mean some teams may prefer to have a distinguished number 1 driver, and some not.
 
From my view, Vettel, Alonso and Räikkönen are the three strongest drivers mentally, (coincidentally?) also the top three in the WDC. So I think we're up for a great end of the season :)

Watching Vettel is like watching my little brother playing an F1 game on the easiest setting, you know he will make stupid mistakes but the car pulls him through in the end, I think having an ageing team mate that has struggled to adapt to the Pirellis has also helped. I don't think it's mental strength, I think it's inevitable. Timo Glock must have pretty good mental strength to be smiling most of the time and where is he?
 
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If your little brother has lightning quick reflexes, sure.

Vettel is incredibly quick, and he's shown an ability to crank out qualifying level laps when he's under pressure. I still look back with fondness on that 2010 season opener in Bahrain where Vettel had a broken spark plug, lost power and fell from first to fourth, then managed to find that little extra in the car to hold off Nico Rosberg till the flag. Maybe not so spectacular if you were just watching the race on the tube, but his mid-sector times were the fastest of the pack by far during those last few laps. Amazing driving there.

Yes, he's immature at times and makes silly, rookie mistakes, even now, but the boy does have talent.
 
If your little brother has lightning quick reflexes, sure.

Vettel is incredibly quick, and he's shown an ability to crank out qualifying level laps when he's under pressure. I still look back with fondness on that 2010 season opener in Bahrain where Vettel had a broken spark plug, lost power and fell from first to fourth, then managed to find that little extra in the car to hold off Nico Rosberg till the flag. Maybe not so spectacular if you were just watching the race on the tube, but his mid-sector times were the fastest of the pack by far during those last few laps. Amazing driving there.

Yes, he's immature at times and makes silly, rookie mistakes, even now, but the boy does have talent.

Of course he has talent, it's just painful to watch him cruise to victory without having to push 100% so often. He gets good points almost regardless of how well he drives, I think he is very strong mentally in qualifying though.
 
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Quite interesting, Force India would probably come into that bracket too. Hulky and Resta are fairly evenly matched.

Although lately things have evened out at Ferrari and Red Bull to an extent. Massa has upped his game since his contract renewal.

Do you think it was a conscious decision by the teams? By this I mean some teams may prefer to have a distinguished number 1 driver, and some not.

Even before raw driver performance, there's the contracts, the money for upgrades, etc. Some teams prefer and can have 2 nr1 status drivers (and cars), others have to, others can't. Then sometimes the nr2 is as fast as the nr1 just to mix things up.
 
homeforsummer
I'd not even slightly say Alonso is overrated, and certainly not this season.

No, the Ferrari is not a dog at the moment, but it's probably only the fourth fastest car on the grid (Behind McLaren, Red Bull and Lotus).

The Ferrari started off this season fairly poorly. It obviously improved over the first half of the season, but the other teams have certainly overtaken it for pace in the second half - McLaren has made absolute leaps, and Red Bull even more so considering the average start that Vettel and Webber had this season.

Taking the two quickest from those teams - Hamilton and Vettel - I'd not say they've been suffering "fluctuations" in pace. They've been consistently two of the quickest drivers throughout the second half of the season - only reliability has been questionable in some instances.

Alonso's car has had great reliability, but it's now not really quick enough to let him compete for the title. And he's looked absolutely knackered after the last few finishes, suggesting he's working rather hard to keep it where it is.

Okay I know Alonso has been doing a great job in maximising points earned from Red Bull's and Mclaren's early season problems, but some people are making it seem like as if he was the only one solely responsible for dragging up a 'useless' F2012 that barely could get into Q3, even though it actually had enough consistently strong pace to challenge for the top 5 since Barcelona.

I'd say it's a team effort really. If Ferrari didn't have great resources and capable people like Fry to develop the car well and Stella to help Alonso manage the races with good strategy, he certainly wouldn't be able to make it this far in the championship IMO.

Some people are saying Alonso's mainly the responsible driving force for this amazing overturn, which makes me kind of feel that he's being a little overrated in that sense, because he has clearly had the help of his team in improving the car significantly since Australia, even though there's no denying that he has done brilliantly to maximise the huge development resources from Ferrari to earn max points during his rivals' mid season problems, to carve out a lead, especially after a poor start to the season.

This also applies to Vettel, who people tend to underrate because of his superior RB8, especially in the later quarter of the season. I feel that most people had forgotten that Vettel had to fight to just be in title contention mid season (he was behind Webber at a point, who was not exactly close to Alonso in points remember?), and has also done well to to make use of the car's surge in performance to quickly overhaul Alonso's chunky lead.

If it were as simple as just having a fast car only to win, then tell me why Webber and the Mclaren drivers aren't doing as well?
 
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Okay I know Alonso has been doing a great job in maximising points earned from Red Bull's and Mclaren's early season problems, but some people are making it seem like as if he was the only one solely responsible for dragging up a 'useless' F2012 that barely could get into Q3, even though it actually had enough consistently strong pace to challenge for the top 5 since Barcelona.

I would say it is more likely that Massa rather than Alonso has shown the true level of the Ferrari all season long.
 
Anghammarad
I would say it is more likely that Massa rather than Alonso has shown the true level of the Ferrari all season long.

Yes from Massa, one can clearly tell that Alonso has been greatly helped (in terms of car pace) in keeping up in the championship battle.

I'd still say without Ferrari's strong development, Alonso certainly wouldn't have been able to drag his F2012 ( the one that barely made Q3) into his current position right now.

There's still a limit to how a driver can overdrive the car IMO, surely Alonso isn't the only one responsible for the strong upturn (it's more of a strong team effort), as some people seem to assume, thus causing some slightly unnecessary hype about it.
 
Qualifying is a great time to see the absolute pace of a car, and Alonso and Massa haven't been consistently up there all season. Alonso qualified 6th yesterday, not the position of a great car. And yet he is able to make up positions at the start, and drive a very good race. I'd say Alonso is definitely one of the all time great drivers, he can get the job done nearly every time.
 
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