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SilverArrowIf Bruno Senna could finish in 8th after facing the wrong way at turn 1 then it should be expected for Vettel to finish higher than that. If Grosjean wasn't holding up a long train of cars, he would've had to overtake maybe 5 other people.
phil_75Aah..Bruno Senna, the most overrated sportsman since Wayne Rooney!
Submerged????
SilverArrow was merely pointing out that Bruno Senna, a midfield pack driver got to 8th place after his first lap collision and was actually behind Vettel when Vettel left the pits.
Short memoryatism.
Webber and Alonso were the favourites for champions in 2010. RBR managed to pit Webber out of contention and Ferrari blundered into doing the same, allowing SV to ghost into the win at the Marina that year. He wasn't under pressure as he wasn't the favourite.
prisonermonkeysThere, I fixed it for you.
Actually, pretty goodmarshalsteward decisions this weekend, and a great race.
Marshals don't make the decisions, they just report the incident, say what they saw and then let the stewards also look at it and decide on a decision.
Who was the driver invited for this race?
Derek Warwick.
I had given up on this F1 thing already! I was wrong.
Gutted for Hamilton. He was dominant, he had "the formula" for this race, he had traction, he had it in the bag.
Thrilled for Kimi. He had it coming and drove a perfect race. One usually says you don't win races in T1, but he actually did. Gained 2nd there which then turned into 1st. Radio was awesome. He's just "raw" like that, and one can't say his team have been very helpfully on the radio this year.
Ferrari was back to being a dog this weekend and Alonso still got to second. And as many of you noticed, he was exhausted. Just like last race, he drove every lap almost as if it were a qualifier, and still managed his tyres. Drive of the day (year) for me.
As for Vettel. Well, Senna did a good job. Kobayashi did a good job. And so did Seb. For him to actually do a great job, the drive of the day, considering his car, his recognized speed and the lucky pace-car timings he got, he should have finished at least ahead of Alonso. People say "drive of the day" while complaining Grosjean and others were "in his way" for too long, and he was "unlucky" with that wing breaking. If he was that great as fanboys make him, he would've finished even better with that car. Like he himself said, a podium was expected. Still did a good job, and was the best result of the day 👍
But that's just for the driving. Because as far as the "persona" goes, screaming on the radio (remember Button a couple races when he almost took Seb out under pace-car?), podium interview arrogance, the completely out of place f* word, champagne on Coulthards back... About to win the WDC for the 3rd time, still acting like a spoiled wannabe trying to prove himself and to be cool. Was it just my impression or did the crowd go from crazy with Kimi to very cold on him? 👎
Honorable mention to Pastor. Did a very good race, especially considering he lost Kers and kept his nose (almost completely) clean.
About the racing incidents, they were just that:
- Pastor for once did nothing wrong (he's not supposed to just roll over when a RedBull tries to pass)
- Massa and Webber were just too hard at it
- Perez penalty is only deserved because he can't come from off-track and claim the apex with another car already diving in there. And Grosjean was not made the scapegoat. Good.
Actually, pretty good marshal decisions this weekend, and a great race.
Lolllllllllllll........what?ohhh my godness, he was 24° and ends 3°!Webber was 2° and end....where?yes he was lucky with the 2 safety car,but guys,he ends 3°!Alonso was 6° and end 2° with Webber driving like an amateur pilot,Hamilton retired,Maldonado with no Kers and Alonso was,even beaten by Hakkinen/Lotus!
Woww..... and you have called us Vettel fanboys?!!
Can anyone actually take this guy seriously considering he thinks the guy who won this race was someone who retired 11 years ago.
Woww..... and you have called us Vettel fanboys?!!
Isn't that supposed to be Alonso?
It's not like the F2012 that Alonso 'seems to be overdriving 200%' is the same dog that he used to drag up the order at the start of the season... It has clearly improved into a strong, reliable car easily capable of placing top 5 consistently throughout the season .(since the huge Mugello update), unlike rivals like Red Bull or Mclaren, who had been suffering from various fluctuations pace wise.
Correct, but lets play the stupid "if" game. Lets say all the same stupid incidents and collisions happened, but no safety cars, he would've probably ended up 4th.
Before the safety car, Vettel was behind the leader by 25 seconds.
During the safety car, Vettel was behind the leader by 13 seconds.
After he fell asleep and drove in to the DRS sign like a jackass and forced himself in to a pitstop, he was put at the back of the field and was behind the leader by 23 seconds.
So, that safety car did absolutely nothing for him because of him being a jackass.
Before the second safety car, he already had the fourth place. All the second safety car did for him was give him the opportunity to get third place, which he did.
Newey mentioned after the race that they were actually planning to not change his front wing because it wouldn't have been worth the extra 5 - 7 seconds that it cost during a pit stop. Well, until he damaged it further...
Honestly, I think he could've finished even further up if he didn't hit that DRS sign because that forced him in to a two stop race.
Short memoryatism.
Webber and Alonso were the favourites for champions in 2010. RBR managed to pit Webber out of contention and Ferrari blundered into doing the same, allowing SV to ghost into the win at the Marina that year. He wasn't under pressure as he wasn't the favourite.
From my view, Vettel, Alonso and Räikkönen are the three strongest drivers mentally, (coincidentally?) also the top three in the WDC. So I think we're up for a great end of the season
A litle off topic
I am somewhat amazed at the difference of results achieved by team mates.
Famine is probably the man to do a comprehensive study on the matter, and his "corrected" WCC table does help, but the plain truth is that, almost every race of the 2012 championship:
You can't compare what Alonso achieves with what Massa achieves
Same thing with Vettel and Webber
Same thing with Kimi and Grosjean
McLaren is the only top team where the drivers are consistenly up there, with Hamilton having the advantage of superior qualifying skills.
Further down the grid you have much more balanced driver pairings, with the exception f Williams, where we have a sort of "Ham-Button" situation too.
From my view, Vettel, Alonso and Räikkönen are the three strongest drivers mentally, (coincidentally?) also the top three in the WDC. So I think we're up for a great end of the season
If your little brother has lightning quick reflexes, sure.
Vettel is incredibly quick, and he's shown an ability to crank out qualifying level laps when he's under pressure. I still look back with fondness on that 2010 season opener in Bahrain where Vettel had a broken spark plug, lost power and fell from first to fourth, then managed to find that little extra in the car to hold off Nico Rosberg till the flag. Maybe not so spectacular if you were just watching the race on the tube, but his mid-sector times were the fastest of the pack by far during those last few laps. Amazing driving there.
Yes, he's immature at times and makes silly, rookie mistakes, even now, but the boy does have talent.
Quite interesting, Force India would probably come into that bracket too. Hulky and Resta are fairly evenly matched.
Although lately things have evened out at Ferrari and Red Bull to an extent. Massa has upped his game since his contract renewal.
Do you think it was a conscious decision by the teams? By this I mean some teams may prefer to have a distinguished number 1 driver, and some not.
homeforsummerI'd not even slightly say Alonso is overrated, and certainly not this season.
No, the Ferrari is not a dog at the moment, but it's probably only the fourth fastest car on the grid (Behind McLaren, Red Bull and Lotus).
The Ferrari started off this season fairly poorly. It obviously improved over the first half of the season, but the other teams have certainly overtaken it for pace in the second half - McLaren has made absolute leaps, and Red Bull even more so considering the average start that Vettel and Webber had this season.
Taking the two quickest from those teams - Hamilton and Vettel - I'd not say they've been suffering "fluctuations" in pace. They've been consistently two of the quickest drivers throughout the second half of the season - only reliability has been questionable in some instances.
Alonso's car has had great reliability, but it's now not really quick enough to let him compete for the title. And he's looked absolutely knackered after the last few finishes, suggesting he's working rather hard to keep it where it is.
Okay I know Alonso has been doing a great job in maximising points earned from Red Bull's and Mclaren's early season problems, but some people are making it seem like as if he was the only one solely responsible for dragging up a 'useless' F2012 that barely could get into Q3, even though it actually had enough consistently strong pace to challenge for the top 5 since Barcelona.
AnghammaradI would say it is more likely that Massa rather than Alonso has shown the true level of the Ferrari all season long.