2012 Formula One United States Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by astrosdude91, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    And yet Hamilton and one of the Williams were stuck behind an HRT for half a lap in FP2 because there were no opportunities to pass it.

    So it looks like we have another Tilketrack, perfectly designed for the Red Bull.
     
  2. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Why didn't the HRT in question move aside?
     
  3. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Firstly, because it's entitled to drive on the same track at the same time - no blue flags in free practice. But moreso because it couldn't. There was a line through the first complex of esses and any other line resulted in sliding, dirt pickup and more sliding.

    It does not bode well for the race when a front-row car cannot pass a 107%er - how is anyone else going to overtake anyone else?
     
  4. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Well, it's no use blaming Tilke, since he didn't design the circuit. Tavo Hellmund came up with the basic idea, with input from Kevin Schwantz (who suggested the double Hockenheim point-and-squirt bit, which appears to be designed for bikes more than cars). They then approached Tilke, who assigned the task of taking their ideas and making them fit the circuit design rules to one of his lieutenants, Johannes Hogrebe.
     
  5. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    "Tilketrack" being a generic term for a modern circuit designed with the absence of overtaking places...

    It's actually easy to design a track that has overtaking places, even without DRS - easier still with DRS. Sweeping corners look great and can provide lovely camera angles, but they're not conducive to racing (unless racing means "following the car in front, give or take a couple of tenths"). Still, you get to see sponsor logos unobstructed for 90 minutes.

    I'm sure, traction aside, it's lovely to drive. Drivers say India is lovely to drive too.
     
  6. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Ah, I see we've not even had a race at this track yet and people are already talking about who's fault it is why it doesn't produce great racing.

    I reserve judgement till the race. But certainly it doesn't look good, though I was suspicious of it producing anything (with F1 at least) when I first saw the layout.

    I've just started thinking about Tilke's layouts, why does he rarely put any awkward medium-speed corners on to straights? I'm thinking here of corners like the end of the Esses at Road Atlanta, Degner 2 and Spoon 2 at Suzuka, Surtees and Clark at Brands Hatch, etc.
    All I can think of off the top of my head is turn 5 at Singapore and the final corner at Shanghai.
    To me, those corners tend to promote overtaking as they generate mistakes and different lines, with the straight really playing the advantage to the car behind if they get a good run.

    High speed corners (as Famine says) tend to space cars out as they can't follow too closely. Low speed corners also tend to space cars out due to the concertina effect.
    It seems almost all of the straights or potential overtaking areas on most of Tilke's tracks tend to use a low speed corner on to a straight or a high speed corner. Almost all of which are "easy" to consistently drive 50+ times.

    When I think about it, even Montreal really has some medium or low speed corners which are high mistake-generators before most of the straights or tight corners. The final chicane for example is the perfect set up - you can gain or lose a lot of time in that one section.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  7. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    I don't think that you can break circuit design down into a mathematical equation that, if followed correctly, will always produce good racing every single time. And if you could, well, we'd probably end up with twenty identical circuits. I believe that a good circuit is one that is more than the sum of its parts, and that a holistic approach is needed. The approach to each turn will simultaneously influence the approach to every other turn.

    If anything, the exacting regulations with regards to surfacing are perhaps the most to blame. When China joined the calendar in 2004, it took a lot of criticism for being bland and uninspiring. However, the past few races there have been very good, and I believe that this is because the circuit has had time to age. The surface has settled, the weight of the buildings has put constant pressure on the topography, and the earth has natraully expanded and contracted with the passnig of seasons. The end result is that the surface is no longer as smooth as a billiards table. While there are still complaints about Shanghai, they mostly have to do with the number of people in the stands or the quality of the air around the circuit rather than the actual racing.
     
  8. Ardius

    Ardius

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    I'm pretty sure you can design a good track without having to wait 6-8 years for the land to change.

    I don't think you can even blame locations or the regulations either, though certainly the best tracks in the world are all old tracks mainly driven on public or ex-public roads or land.

    Why is it that we can race safely at Suzuka yet regulations don't allow a similar track to be built?

    Perhaps that is it, maybe Tilke and the FIA are being too technical in how they design tracks. When you think that most older circuits were not really designed to generate overtaking on purpose, they naturally flowed.
     
  9. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

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    It seems likely but it's not certain, the fact that he was a second and a half quicker than anyone in FP1 suggests that he came out at the right time and pushed it as if it was a qualifying session. There is no chance that he will be on pole by anywhere near that margin. I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis takes it by a few tenths.
     
  10. gorsad

    gorsad

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    Vettel only 3 tenths quicker than Hamilton in the final practice session. While it's likely he'll get pole the race should be pretty interesting, shame I'll have to miss it.
     
  11. Pagey279

    Pagey279

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    Still no practice sessions on BBC iPlayer :grumpy: I swear they normally make them available.
     
  12. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

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    Apparently Hamilton made a mistake on his fastest lap, I think the first 2 rows will look like this.

    1.Vettel
    2.Hamilton
    3.Webber
    4.Button

    Pastor might produce a shock though.
     
  13. gorsad

    gorsad

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    While I am a Mclaren fan, I desperately want Alonso to somehow get up into the top 3 so as to challenge Vettel tomorrow. Unfortunately it doesn't look like that will happen.
     
  14. Centura

    Centura Premium

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    Because they are only offering highlights of qualifying and the race this weekend.

    However, if you go to the BBC Sport website, they're probably offering highlights of the practice sessions.
     
  15. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    This should be an interesting qualifying session. It look like the Medium compound tyres are nearly there with track, I think if they had the Soft compound, it would have made drivers job a lot easier as it seems borderline with Medium compound. Maldonado's onboard at end of last practice session looked very interesting.

    I wonder if qualifying session and race will look clumsy onboard or if the drivers finally get on top of things. I like how the track surface is making top drivers look amateurish so far :tup:.
     
  16. NP

    NP Premium

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    The qualifying session is about to start. Finally! :D
     
  17. m8h3r

    m8h3r Premium

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    Think it's a good job that the GP2 & GP3 drivers aren't there. We all sit here saying all these situations where people crash on hill crests, well the GP Guys would do that, and be run into by 5 more guys. Although the Americans and their beloved Nascar would probably prefer that to F1 concession races. Which sadly is what I am expecting.
     
  18. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    De la Rosa is currently faster than Pic, there's still hope for HRT!
     
  19. Signal52

    Signal52

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    :)
     
  20. mister dog

    mister dog (Banned)

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    I fear this will be another typical Tilke GP; all i see is one corner following another again... only oppurtunity to pass; the bloody DRS straight as usual.

    Shame all new circuits are so overdone; there's no chance for a driver to get of the driving line to make a pass anymore, as there's only one line you can take going through all those corners.
     
  21. Signal52

    Signal52

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    Was there a thread where people were predicting the pole lap time? I can't seem to find it.
     
  22. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    Oh joy, yet more mechanical issues for Karthikeyan.
     
  23. Signal52

    Signal52

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    Red Bulls going to be easily fastest again. :ouch:
     
  24. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    A 24-man grid tomorrow, this is good news.
     
  25. gorsad

    gorsad

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    Yay, both HRTs within the 107% time. And both Marussia's ahead of the Caterham's, wasn't expecting that.
     
  26. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

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    Right here, page 5:

    Maybe one driver will get into 1.35.high. At most...
     
  27. ghskilla

    ghskilla

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    Alonso is mad at Schumacher...
     
  28. mister dog

    mister dog (Banned)

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    Breaking news! Bernie announces 2013 Antartica GP, designed by Herman Tilke.

    [​IMG]
     
  29. mattythedog

    mattythedog Premium

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    Schumacher's old now. Probably needs glasses.
     
  30. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

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    There we go. Vettel already in 1.35 don't think anyone will match him today.

    That said, he's about 15kph slower on the straight. Pretty good aero on that RBR... Rubber nose or not.