2013 Airtel Indian Grand Prix

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Doesn't matter. With Alonso 11th he's WDC anyway.

Exactly and I doubt they weigh that much.

 

[Vinylshark]

It was a five way battle most of 2010 and a four way during the last race, 2012 was a two way battle.

Just checked the final points since 2010 and apparently 2012 was close too.
That doesn't change the fact that Vettel gets pushed up by the medias way to much.
I always could puke when he get's compared to Micheal, Senna and so on. Just because he sits in the fastest car (yeah yeah yeah, you all see it different, but the fact that experts and ex-drivers even said that he has to change the team to prove himself shows that I'm not wrong).

 

[Alex.]

Senna never won a championship in a car that wasn't the best. Vettel and Senna both won their first races in cars that weren't the best.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Doesn't matter. With Alonso 11th he's WDC anyway.

I wasn't concerned so much with the WDC, but with the win. After what happened to Ekstrom a few months ago, it would be awful for Vettel to lose his win/winning streak because of something so insignificant. I hope you guys are right.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Just checked the final points since 2010 and apparently 2012 was close too.
That doesn't change the fact that Vettel gets pushed up by the medias way to much.
I always could puke when he get's compared to Micheal, Senna and so on. Just because he sits in the fastest car (yeah yeah yeah, you all see it different, but the fact that experts and ex-drivers even said that he has to change the team to prove himself shows that I'm not wrong).

So did Michael...Senna is a different story. However, with all the controversy surrounding many of Schumi's cars even more so than the RBR cars I'd say you should leave your childhood favortism behind. I grew up and then realized that Schumi may have not been as great as he was always portrayed. What ex-drivers? I've seen plenty give him due plaudits with the most recent being Lauda.

He ran in a Toro and a BMW and did better than his teammate so...

Actually Senna didn't have the best car in 91, the FW14 which is regarded as high as the MP4/4 was better than the MP4/6

 

[Samus]

It's only fans of other drivers that say he needs to switch teams to prove himself, people actually in F1 know he's a real talent.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Actually Senna didn't have the best car in 91, the FW14 which is regarded as high as the MP4/4 was better than the MP4/6

Fastest is not the same as best. The FW14 suffered bad reliability early in the season that was not overcome, McLaren still ended up winning the WCC.

That's analogous to the comparison between the MP4-27 and the RB8. The former was widely considered to be faster but the latter was widely considered best because it was more reliable.

 

[JGreens]

Still no apologies then? For the guy that CALLED IT RIGHT ON THE MONEY back in Monaco? None?

All to happy to give a bit of stick but still can't take any, ah well, the better person knew he was right all along. And he was.

F1 is in decline. Roll on 2014!

 

[Vinylshark]

So did Michael...Senna is a different story. However, with all the controversy surrounding many of Schumi's cars even more so than the RBR cars I'd say you should leave your childhood favortism behind. I grew up and then realized that Schumi may have not been as great as he was always portrayed. What ex-drivers? I've seen plenty give him due plaudits with the most recent being Lauda.

He ran in a Toro and a BMW and did better than his teammate so...

First, I never was a Schumacher fan.
Yes, Schumacher was dominant too, but there's a huge difference. When Micheal went to Ferrari, Ferrari was a team that could only win if everyone else wouldn't finish the race. Schumi made Ferrari to the team they are today and that was a long and hard way that included a lot of work. Seb went to RBR and already got the quickest car and didn't had to put any work into it.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Fastest is not the same as best. The FW14 suffered bad reliability early in the season that was not overcome, McLaren still ended up winning the WCC.

It was overcome actually the first four races where massive issues for it and it obviously translated over to wins for McLaren, though it didn't help that Senna could squeeze so much out of a good car but a great car and he was on another level. Which is the point that is to be made. If you want to split hairs about cars we could do that though...not sure if the mods would appreciate it.

That's analogous to the comparison between the MP4-27 and the RB8. The former was widely considered to be faster but the latter was best because it was more reliable.

They both had pretty big issues, what made the MP4-27 not shine is a group of people that forgot to put enough gas in it, not properly change the tires and realize that the suspension was put in backwards a couple of times. Car was fine and nimble when the team actually put on their thinking caps however.

 

[F1 fan]

First, I never was a Schumacher fan.
Yes, Schumacher was dominant too, but there's a huge difference. When Micheal went to Ferrari, Ferrari was a team that could only win if everyone else wouldn't finish the race. Schumi made Ferrari to the team they are today and that was a long and hard way that included a lot of work. Seb went to RBR and already got the quickest car and didn't had to put any work into it.

A lot like Lewis.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

First, I never was a Schumacher fan.
Yes, Schumacher was dominant too, but there's a huge difference. When Micheal went to Ferrari, Ferrari was a team that could only win if everyone else wouldn't finish the race. Schumi made Ferrari to the team they are today and that was a long and hard way that included a lot of work. Seb went to RBR and already got the quickest car and didn't had to put any work into it.

That's questionable especially when you look at some of the stuff Brawn and Todt were accused of doing to get extra performance and wins, there is a reason they were brought in front of the FIA so much during those days. Let's not forget the tendencies of Schumi to run over and wreck his competition and then act like it was a racing incident. Then you have the traction control accusations that went on long after Senna died, and then the fuel filter the following season being removed with the B195. Let's not be so quick to forget things. Senna isn't a saint either though as we all know. All Schumi did is perpetuate Ferrari to be more egotistical and one sided in their F1 effort from season to season that we all expect, I'd hardly call them great. I mean I might if I was a penny pinching ego maniac business mogul trying to mule over competition for no good reason other than to support the weight of my massive head (figuratively).

A lot like Lewis.

Exactly, the only reason people give him a pass is because he won everything easily, prior to jumping in the McLaren. Then he further established himself by racing on equal ground with a two time WDC (which is questionable). However, F1Fan despises Lewis so I'd expect more subjective talk, even though I'm a Lewis fan I'm still objective in saying Alonso didn't get as much support at McLaren.

 

[Brend]

Well done Seb and RBR. 👍

 

[Akmuq]

Still no apologies then? For the guy that CALLED IT RIGHT ON THE MONEY back in Monaco? None?

All to happy to give a bit of stick but still can't take any, ah well, the better person knew he was right all along. And he was.

F1 is in decline. Roll on 2014!

Apologies for what? Predicting the world champion? I had a tenner on him before the season started, I'll be looking for winnings, not an apology.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Apologies for what? Predicting the world champion? I had a tenner on him before the season started, I'll be looking for winnings, not an apology.

That guy is still around expecting people to see him as some kind of Soothsayer, what a joke.

The nerve of some people.

 

[Northstar]

I really don't see how the Red Bull's being great cars from the start is somehow a knock on Vettel. That's more or less like saying someone isn't a good football player because they play on Man U.

Also, what is Vettel supposed to do? Give the field a 10 second head start?

 

[Samus]

First, I never was a Schumacher fan.
Yes, Schumacher was dominant too, but there's a huge difference. When Micheal went to Ferrari, Ferrari was a team that could only win if everyone else wouldn't finish the race. Schumi made Ferrari to the team they are today and that was a long and hard way that included a lot of work. Seb went to RBR and already got the quickest car and didn't had to put any work into it.

You're talking as if Michael designed and built the car, whilst he certainly helped the design and technical team they built up had much more to do with it. They are drivers, their job is to drive the car, saying Vettel isn't as good because he didn't 'build' the car is bizarre. Plus you're ignoring the fact RBR wasn't a winning car when Vettel signed in July 2008, 3rd was their best result.

It's also not any different to what other drivers do, impress in a lower team then sign for a better team.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I wonder what happened to Hamilton in his last stint as he managed to keep up in the other ones. Will that be put down to a bad set of tyres, haven't heard an interview from him yet. Great job by Grosjean, Rosberg and Vettel (Congratulations to him on his fourth title and also Red Bull).

Did you not read what I said...

Yes, maybe you don't understand what you wrote.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You're talking as if Michael designed and built the car, whilst he certainly helped the design and technical team they built up had much more to do with it. They are drivers, their job is to drive the car, saying Vettel isn't as good because he didn't 'build' the car is bizarre. Plus you're ignoring the fact RBR wasn't a winning car when Vettel signed in July 2008.

It's also not any different to what other drivers do, impress in a lower team then sign for a better team.

Exactly, Ferrari were actually winning before Schumi and not long before he joined did they have a season or two where the car could have won the championship. The problem is Ferrari didn't like (and still don't) drivers who speak their mind and thus thought their cars were supreme all the time and anyone could put it on top of the WCC. Perhaps if they listened to people like Prost, they'd have had a WCC much sooner than Schumi and the 1999 season.

Samus is right, Vettel did what he needed to show he had the raw speed to get further up the rungs. Grosjean and Hulkenburg are the only other two that I can see right now replacing top drivers like Vettel, Lewis and Alonso.

I wonder what happened to Hamilton in his last stint as he managed to keep up in the other ones. Will that be put down to a bad set of tyres, haven't heard an interview from him yet. Great job by Grosjean, Rosberg and Vettel (Congratulations to him on his fourth title and also Red Bull).

He most likely burnt them out on his own trying to get around Massa. He wasn't having the greatest weekend to being with.

Yes, maybe you don't understand what you wrote.

Actually I understood quite fine, I never once said anything about him having new tires. I actually suggested that they'd probably have him run old mediums like many other were doing to just set a Q2 time and even a Q3 so they'd switch over much later in the session and have much fresher tires for the first stint. As we saw how quickly the tires ran out in today's race especially the options. Also I made note of how RBR for the last several races have been keen to make sure that Seb has a extra set of fresh tires for the race so he can churn out fast times without really having to worry about sets.

If you read that you'll see that I'm not thinking about new mediums based on what was seen during the session and the strategy seen in prior races running up to India. A very plausible way to look at why I think he would have ran as such in the hypothetical scenario you gave.

 

[Milouse]

You're talking as if Michael designed and built the car, whilst he certainly helped the design and technical team they built up had much more to do with it. They are drivers, their job is to drive the car[...]

I did a Todt interview about the Grand Prix II game in 1995, and he explained that Schumacher was working very hard out of the car, and that, at the end of the day, he was always taking at home a computer with on-track data. That is something that can make the difference.

 

[F1 fan]

Exactly, the only reason people give him a pass is because he won everything easily, prior to jumping in the McLaren. Then he further established himself by racing on equal ground with a two time WDC (which is questionable). However, F1Fan despises Lewis so I'd expect more subjective talk, even though I'm a Lewis fan I'm still objective in saying Alonso didn't get as much support at McLaren.

In pre season testing, before the team switched to the Bridgestone control tyre, Alonso was much quicker than Hamilton. Alonso admitted that he struggled to adapt to the bridgestones, whereas they suited Lewis well.

But no, what I'm really getting at is the fact that people accuse Vettel of being "gifted" the best car when we all know he had to work for it. Lewis, on the other hand, arrived in F1 with the best team and car. He did perform well, but the facts shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Forget to mention, haven't heard the actual team radio regarding Kimi and Lotus but if it is true what they said to him then that is quite disgraceful, no need for it.

 

[Samus]

I did a Todt interview about the Grand Prix II game in 1995, and he explained that Schumacher was working very hard out of the car, and that, at the end of the day, he was always taking at home a computer with on-track data. That is something that can make the difference.

Yes but what i'm saying is their primary job is to drive the car, I don't see how you can say Vettel isn't as good a driver because he didn't need to do that. Mind you, it's widely reported Vettel takes a very keen interest in the technical side of things, visiting the Pirelli factory for example.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

In pre season testing, before the team switched to the Bridgestone control tyre, Alonso was much quicker than Hamilton. Alonso admitted that he struggled to adapt to the bridgestones, whereas they suited Lewis well.

What does that matter, I already threw the biggest bone in Alonso's favor for that season which is Ron Dennis hate. Still I'd say compared to some kid that just jumped in an F1 car, you wouldn't expect him to run as fast a two time WDC and at that time one of the best qualifiers and to do this day adapters of cars despite the tires. When all he had was lower formulas to base off of.

But no, what I'm really getting at is the fact that people accuse Vettel of being "gifted" the best car when we all know he had to work for it. Lewis, on the other hand, arrived in F1 with the best team and car. He did perform well, but the facts shouldn't be overlooked.

No one has overlooked them, but there is the fact that even so he showed from the drop of that hat that he too deserved it before and after that first season. I agree others shouldn't knock Vettel or say he got lucky because he didn't. Lucky would be him getting to run in a car like the RB9 at say 18 and winning a WDC, but even then it's not too lucky because he'd have to have talent to control and win said WDC.

I think you and I agree that some people are nut jobs that have no real argument, regarding Vettel that is.

Yes but what i'm saying is their primary job is to drive the car, I don't see how you can say Vettel isn't as good a driver because he didn't need to do that. Mind you, it's widely reported Vettel takes a very keen interest in the technical side of things, visiting the Pirelli factory for example.

There are supposedly a good amount of drivers that do this, especially on the top side. Lewis and Alonso too, so people shouldn't think that drivers now days don't do it and Schumi is some messiah because he told the world he did.

Some of you may need to learn to discern publicity from modesty.

 

[Squach240]

Seb went to RBR and already got the quickest car and didn't had to put any work into it.

I hate seeing this. People assuming these drivers just don't put any work into the team. The way Vettel's team looks after every victory, it's extremely hard work paid off. It's not him just happy.

Do keep in mind, Vettel is one of the few people who really study the development of a part for example. It may be the fastest car, but there's a reason why it is the fastest car.

 

[Samus]

Plus again like I said, Seb signed for RBR in July 2008. There was no way he could know the team would suddenly transform into what they did. They ended up 7th in the constructors that year, best single result a third up to that point. There was absolutely no guarantee that car was going to be winning races the next year.

 

[Touring Mars]

Well done BBC - snapped to a live interview with Seb just in time for him to drop the F-bomb live on BBC News 24. 👍

 

[Saidur_Ali]

He most likely burnt them out on his own trying to get around Massa. He wasn't having the greatest weekend to being with.

He was having an OK weekend up until last stint. After being able to stay closely to them, maybe Mercedes qualifying strategy was costly from Q1 that forced them to use an extra set of tyres that compromised him for the last few laps, I don't know. Also being the 2nd car in team, strategy was compromised slightly which made a big difference. The Medium tyres seemed to hold up well for others and even for him early on when he was chasing Rosberg and Massa.

Actually I understood quite fine, I never once said anything about him having new tires. I actually suggested that they'd probably have him run old mediums like many other were doing to just set a Q2 time and even a Q3 so they'd switch over much later in the session and have much fresher tires for the first stint. As we saw how quickly the tires ran out in today's race especially the options. Also I made note of how RBR for the last several races have been keen to make sure that Seb has a extra set of fresh tires for the race so he can churn out fast times without really having to worry about sets.

If you read that you'll see that I'm not thinking about new mediums based on what was seen during the session and the strategy seen in prior races running up to India. A very plausible way to look at why I think he would have ran as such in the hypothetical scenario you gave.

Makes no sense though, why would they put him on used tyres when he has got new tyres. Are you suggesting Red Bull will sabotage their lead driver?

 

[Blitz24]

That guy is still around expecting people to see him as some kind of Soothsayer, what a joke.

The nerve of some people.

According to my religion I am not supposed to listen to the so called "psychics". So I just look at his babble and laugh.


Anyways, surprised that Alonso was so far off. Did Ferrari mess up his strategy? (Didn't see the race as I couldn't stay up.)

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

He was having an OK weekend up until last stint. After being able to stay closely to them, maybe Mercedes qualifying strategy was costly from Q1 that forced them to use an extra set of tyres that compromised him for the last few laps, I don't know. Also being the 2nd car in team, strategy was compromised slightly which made a big difference. The Medium tyres seemed to hold up well for others and even for him early on when he was chasing Rosberg and Massa.

That's chasing though and catching up to two cars that are mid fight, not really anything strenuous for tires. However, actually battling for a long time seems to be where Lewis will use up his tires and it was no surprise that the rears were burnt out. He was probably trying to put power down much quicker out of corners to keep on with Massa.

Makes no sense though, why would they put him on used tyres when he has got new tyres. Are you suggesting Red Bull will sabotage their lead driver?

...how is that sabotage? Especially when I said the plan like others were shown doing over the weekend, was to get the cars running on a new set as close to the end as possible because tire wear especially on options was awful. We saw both RBRs do very little on soft tires, so with this knowledge it would have been a good idea to run on somewhat worn tires and then run a lap or two at the very end on fresh tires, since that is what they'd be starting on. Also you still seem to be ignoring the fact that they favor Sebastian having an extra set of tires for the race.

I don't know how or why you are coming to these redundant conclusions from my writing, but then I see you asking questions about the GP as if you didn't see or pay close attention and thus I question how much of Quali you actually saw.

According to my religion I am not supposed to listen to the so called "psychics". So I just look at his babble and laugh.


Anyways, surprised that Alonso was so far off. Did Ferrari mess up his strategy? (Didn't see the race as I couldn't stay up.)

Well that's good Blitz, we already deal with enough would be prophets on the Nascar thread.