2013 Formula 1 Grand Prix De Monaco

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prisonermonkeys
Red Bull are really kicking up a stink about it now:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107715/

Which I find to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black, given that the Mercrdes-Pirelli test exists in something of a legal grey area and some of Red Bull's practices last year - like their engine mapping in Germany - existed in a similr grey area.
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RBR were protested several times though, why can't they do the same now?
 
It's not that they can't protest; rather, my issue is that they had no problem building a car that exploited the loopholes in the rules last year - they were called before the stewards four separate times - but the moment someone else does something in that same grey area, they cry foul louder than anyone else and for longer than anyone else.
 
I think RBR is kinda failing with communication this year. First the Malaysian debacle, then the cries on the tyres because this year they dont seems to be able to make them work as they want (even if Vettel is already first in championship and they are first in the team championship). Then they wonder why Pirelli isnt helping them happily. Seriously.

I always loved RBR as a team but this year it's a big disapointement.
 
prisonermonkeys
It's not that they can't protest; rather, my issue is that they had no problem building a car that exploited the loopholes in the rules last year - they were called before the stewards four separate times - but the moment someone else does something in that same grey area, they cry foul louder than anyone else and for longer than anyone else.
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People have been exploiting loopholes in the car design rulebook since the rulebook itself was introduced. A single team getting an exclusive 1000km of testing with the sports solitary tire manufacturer is quite a different kettle of fish altogether. Especially when you consider the ban on in season testing.
 
F1 fan
People have been exploiting loopholes in the car design rulebook since the rulebook itself was introduced. A single team getting an exclusive 1000km of testing with the sports solitary tire manufacturer is quite a different kettle of fish altogether. Especially when you consider the ban on in season testing.
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And that test was well within the rules set out for Pirelli. They had the power to run an extraordinary test with a team of their choosing; it's an obscure part of the contract that was first signed in 2010. Furthermore, there are details surrounding the nature of the test that the like of Red Bull are conveniently choosing to ignore - like, for instance, the way the test had to be condcted by Pirelli. Mercedes provided the car and the drivers, but Pirelli had to supply the engineers. Red Bull are trying to make out that Mercedes carried out an illegal test specifically for the purposes of getting data on tyre wear that nobody else was privvy to. That is far from the case.

And ironically, this test probably happened because Red Bull made such a ruckus over the tyres. They were the ones demanding changes to the compounds, but how did they expect Pirelli to be able to make those changes without gathering data first?
 
Marko said these tests gained 1 second per lap. Im sorry but I feel that other teams should be allowed to outcry, the only reason so many people are defending Mercedes is because they aren't Red Bull...
 
legacyMACHINE
Marko said these tests gained 1 second per lap. Im sorry but I feel that other teams should be allowed to outcry, the only reason so many people are defending Mercedes is because they aren't Red Bull...
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If you believe anything Marko says in situations like this, I honestly just feel sorry for you.

Right now we just don't have enough information to pin this on any one group, the blame game is deep. I'm not even going to waste energy on this whole matter, I did enough of that in 2007. I'll just wait for the results of the FIA hearing.
 
legacyMACHINE
Marko said these tests gained 1 second per lap. Im sorry but I feel that other teams should be allowed to outcry, the only reason so many people are defending Mercedes is because they aren't Red Bull...
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Why would you believe anything Helmut says? The man speaks nonsense every time he opens his mouth.
 
prisonermonkeys
And ironically, this test probably happened because Red Bull made such a ruckus over the tyres. They were the ones demanding changes to the compounds, but how did they expect Pirelli to be able to make those changes without gathering data first?
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SilverArrow
Why would you believe anything Helmut says? The man speaks nonsense every time he opens his mouth.
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Well, nonsense or not, we'll let the FIA decide. Yet this doesn't subtract from the fact that if this was Red Bull, people would be calling for a penalty. But as its Mercedes, people will defend them to the death. People say RBR get away with murder, nonsense! It's just something they say to subtract from success.
 
Exactly - Mercedes were strong in Monaco, becase Monaco does not have any of the long sweepers that put extra load on the rear tyres and so have been wreaking havoc with Mercedes' tyre wear. They've been strong in individual sectors that have the same characteristics as Monaco (like the final sector of Barcelona) all year long.
 
Can this test talk be branched off into a new thread since it's not really specifically about Monaco?

prisonermonkeys
It's not that they can't protest; rather, my issue is that they had no problem building a car that exploited the loopholes in the rules last year - they were called before the stewards four separate times - but the moment someone else does something in that same grey area, they cry foul louder than anyone else and for longer than anyone else.
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That's F1 though, that's how it works and always has. Every single team will try to exploit the rulebook with their car and the other teams will protest. It's just how it is.

If you can exploit the rules and get away with it, you will.
If you see another team trying to exploit the rules, you query it.
 
And querying it is what Ferrari have done. Stefano Domenicali's comments on the subject make it pretty clear that he wants to know more about the situation before deciding upon what, if any, penalty should be handed out.

Red Bull, on the other hand, are making wild and unproveable claims about the kind of advantage they would have gotten, and demanding that the FIA do something about it. In truth, I think they're more upset that they didn't get asked to carry out the tests, since the issue of tyre wear has been their baby since the start of the season.
 
Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali said: "As it is to do with the sporting regulations, you might expect a sporting penalty, but because it is not really clear what could be the effect on the race weekend, it is maybe bigger than that.

"I honestly don't know what should be the solution. Because there is no precedent, I have no idea what should happen."
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A Ferrari spokesman added: "Pirelli can offer to the teams the chance to do 1,000km of testing for tyre development and safety. But the fundamental aspect is the year of the car because if you use a current car it should be allegedly a breach of article 22.

"We want a clarification on this because if it is not against article 22 we would be interested in doing this."
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Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said he had only learnt about the test on Saturday night.

"I can understand Pirelli wanting to test the tyres," he said.

"What's disappointing is it's been done in not a transparent manner. A three-day test has taken place with a current car running on tyres that are going to be used in the next grand prix and irrelevant of what you call it, that's testing."

He added: "We need to deal with it through the proper channels so that's what we'll look at doing."
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Except the usual nonsense from Helmut they've both been pretty similar as far as I can see. They both say that they believe they've broken the rules and could have gained an advantage.
 
Except that Marko holds a position of extraordinary power within the team. Have you ever noticed how nobody in Red Bull moves to play down Marko's comments? He speaks for the team, even moreso than Chrisitan Horner.
 
prisonermonkeys
Except that Marko holds a position of extraordinary power within the team. Have you ever noticed how nobody in Red Bull moves to play down Marko's comments? He speaks for the team, even moreso than Chrisitan Horner.
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He's still officially only an adviser and runs the driver development program though. Whatever he or anyone else thinks officially he is not above Christian and has no official position in the F1 team as far as I know.

Also it's not like Luca De Montezemelo hasn't come out with outrageous comments before. It's not like RBR are the only team with an "outspoken" member. I'm surprised he hasn't piped in on this yet anyway.
 
Sorry, but no sale. Marko speaks for the team. In fact, Marko pretty much is the team. He's Dietrich Mateschitz's right-hand man, a position that not even Christian Horner can lay claim to.
 
prisonermonkeys
Sorry, but no sale. Marko speaks for the team. In fact, Marko pretty much is the team. He's Dietrich Mateschitz's right-hand man, a position that not even Christian Horner can lay claim to.
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This is very much true... Sadly.
 
prisonermonkeys
Sorry, but no sale. Marko speaks for the team. In fact, Marko pretty much is the team. He's Dietrich Mateschitz's right-hand man, a position that not even Christian Horner can lay claim to.
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He doesn't speak for the team in an official manner though, which was my point. When he slagged off Mark Webber that certainly wasn't an official line from the team, it was his personal opinion. Same as this and I doubt many outside of RBR take him seriously. Why would you with the nonsense he spouts.

Officially RBR and Ferrari have said pretty much the same thing about this.
 
Samus
He doesn't speak for the team in an official manner though, which was my point. When he slagged off Mark Webber that certainly wasn't an official line from the team, it was his personal opinion. Same as this and I doubt many outside of RBR take him seriously. Why would you with the nonsense he spouts.

Officially RBR and Ferrari have said pretty much the same thing about this.
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I doubt many IN Red Bull take him seriously...
 
I was silent and away this last weekend (doing this ) but by reading all news and after watching highlights I got to say this:

Rosberg - DOTD

Vettel - Clever drive, he's growing to be a mature driver

Hamilton - Unlucky to lose 2 places, but he lost the chance to win when he didn't get the pole for himself. I wonder if Schumacher was indeed "past it" or if it was Rosberg's speed all along.

Sutil - Great driving.

Perez - Great driving, I don't blame him for trying and Kimi should've been more aware of the danger. Closed too late a gap he left open for too long, when Perez just couldn't dissapear (not even backing off).

Alonso - A shadow of his usual self.

The "tyre scandal" - A mess. I'd hate to see Rosberg's win tainted or lost because of this. Still, glad it wasn't Ferrari, or else we'd have the usual anti-Ferrari hysteria everywhere. It would be just more noise to add to an already noisy mess.
 
Any news on how Massa is doing? I know he got up and walked away, and his visit to the hospital was purely precautionary, but still...
 

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