2013 Formula 1 Grand Prix De Monaco

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by lbsf1, May 21, 2013.

  1. Centura

    Centura Premium

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    I was amazed that Kimi was able to drive back in to the points, but unfortunately, it looks like he will lose his point and Schumi's record will continue to stand.

    If Kimi loses his point, it will be Vettel who has the longest consecutive points finish.
     
  2. Samus

    Samus

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    Don't watch it then, simples.
     
  3. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    Problem is test are not allowed even for other teams. Even if you do it for safety purposes you stil give an IMMENSE advantage to that particular team. Saying Mercedes will not probably win the championship is not the point. It's the logic behind FIA decision which is distorted.

    Do you really think Mercedes didn't tried performance on the long run during the test?

    Safety reason they said. Ok, let's call ALL the teams on track then. Why only one? Even Force India had delamination issues, even Massa had several tyre issues during the season. Calling only one team on track is borderline ridiculous.
    Don't respond like a troll then, even more simple.
     
  4. Centura

    Centura Premium

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    As far as I know, Mercedes was testing unmarked prototype seasons for the 2014 season.
     
  5. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    I read something similar as well. At the end of the day I'm not seeing the advantage. Also it makes sense to test on a more modern car, than a 09 or 10 spec car.
     
  6. Dodzzz

    Dodzzz

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    Yeah I completely agree with you.
    his move on Alonso was totally wrong, if Alonso didn't cut the chicane (assume there was a real barrier there, they're both would've been heavily crashed there, because Alonso couldn't pass the barrier (like David Copperfield) then would've been forced to move left (crashing into Perez)
    I was angry at that point to hear that Alonso had to give the place back. it was totally wrong. But glad finally Perez got his bad karma.
     
  7. MUSC4EVER

    MUSC4EVER

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    Fantastic race! Well done to Rosberg..easily my DotD, what a great driver he's turning into!
     
  8. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    I do see the advantage instead. MGP in Spain destroyed the tyres in couple of laps.
     
  9. DK

    DK Premium

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    The Monte Carlo circuit is the easiest circuit on tyres on the calendar, so the Mercs had a lower chance of ruining their tyres.
     
  10. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    That was Spain, the only advantage I could see is for next year. However, that will totally be destroyed because the cars are going to be very different so please inform us of what advantage is gained? Even before Spain was over Merc were already slated to be the ones to beat at Monaco.
     
  11. Centura

    Centura Premium

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    If what Pirelli say is true*, I don't think anything wrong have been done. However, I think it could've been done better. They could've had an official test after the Spanish Grand Prix for all teams. It shouldn't have been too expensive to do that because all the teams were already there.

    Pirelli need to test their tyres with relevant cars (2012/2013), but it's not their fault they are stuck with a 2010 car.

    * Allowed to ask team(s) for a 1000 km test to test prototype tyres for next season.
     
  12. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    2014 tyre you say. Do I really have to point out the obvious? Ok
    - MGP destroyed tyres in Spain.
    - 1000 km test for "safety" reasons with "2014" tyres.
    - MGP won Monaco GP.
     
  13. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

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    Have you not being following the F1 this year? It's the hot tracks where Mercedes have really suffered. In China, Malaysia and Melbourne they were only slightly off the race pace of the best cars even though their strategies were too conservative, in Monaco the tyres would have been much cooler and as we know it's very hard to overtake. If in the next hot race Mercedes are on the same level or better than the rest then perhaps you can say it's obvious that they have benefitted.
     
  14. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    ...I pretty much covered those points you restating what I already put down, doesn't do anything. You are clearly trying to make a conspiracy out of something that it isn't. Why would they think to use any of the top 3 teams and then have someone like you come out of the wood work even more?

    And let's not forget Monaco, is very easy on tires and has low degradation which works in the favor of fast cars like Merc GP and RBR.
     
  15. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

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    Yep and they actually benefit in another way, they can get their tyres up to temperature quickly unlike Alonso who as we saw struggled badly (qualifying in particular) because his tyres were too cold. I think that is why the Mercedes cars seem to back everyone up when they have the chance, whilst everyone else is struggling to get the tyre temperatures up to the optimum level they can shoot off whenever they want.
     
  16. JGreens

    JGreens (Banned)

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    What, Sutil or Hulkenberg? Oh come on...
    BIG disappointment from Kimi & Nando today. Disaster really, and now they're going to get shafted continuously from Canada onwards. Ugh, 2014 cannot come fast enough now...:banghead:
     
  17. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    Kimi turned superman for last few laps, amazed he got to tenth position in the end and he gets to keep it. Beating Michael's record is within reach still.

    Shame for Lewis to lose out to the Red Bulls. Well done to Nico Rosberg for winning, he never looked to have any trouble from Red Bulls which is promising for next race.
     
  18. Dr. P

    Dr. P

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    Todays track temperatures were 40˚C and above, which is actually quite hot.
    Bahrain was something about 38˚C if I remember correctly.

    The biggest difference were the shorter and tighter corners when the tires were affected much shorter time than in previous races. Mercedes problem has been those long corner which puts pressure to the tires much longer time and causing their tires to overheat.

    But something about todays race,

    Totally different from any this season race, quite obviously. Actually surprised about MGPs race win, it was like from 0 to the top in no time. (As we have seen MGP results earlier).

    Rosberg did quite neutral race. Seemed to be quite easy one.

    Sad day for Alonso, Kimi (and Button).

    Perez....

    Driver of the day: Sutil did excellent job today. Overtaking Button and Alonso was epic.
    Kimis last sprint was good too, but (perhaps) for nothing. Such a shame.*


    And for last, Perez... He didn't even admit that collision with Raikkonen was his fault. "I didn't have any room, if some could have avoided that collision, it would have been Kimi."

    More I was confused that Alonso did get penalty for "avoiding collision" with Perez, but after todays race, there hasn't been (yet) even any conversation about Perez going to front of judges.

    * Kimi can keep his point
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  19. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    Data on tyre degradation is different at every circuit. There will have been a system in place to prevent Mercedes themselves from acquiring the Pirelli data just as there was when Lotus was testing their 2010 car for Pirelli (I'd even go as far as the say the restrictions on data would have been stronger for a current car).

    It's also been pointed out that the tyre data was for a different compound to those being used this year, meaning it is very difficult to analyse the data, even if Mercedes managed to get hold of it. I highly doubt that the extra test contributed to Rosberg's victory in Monaco.

    However, I do question the legality of the situation. The simple fact is, Mercedes tested a current car with full spec tyres (Not the ones they would normally use for filming purposes, or for straighline aero tests which are allowed). This could give Mercedes an unfair advantage on the 2014 tyres, as they will have been essentially designed around the Mercedes car. Let's not forget that the aero rules aren't going to change that much (Not on the scale of the 2008-2009 rule change anyway), so Mercedes already have some idea of how their car will perform on next year's rubber.

    I feel if Pirelli needed such data, they should have tested it on every car in a young driver test style session.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  20. MUSC4EVER

    MUSC4EVER

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    Massa just put a pic on Twitter of him sitting on a sofa with thumps up with the caption 'all good!'....which is obviously a good sign! :tup::)
     
  21. niky

    niky Moderator

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    I'm pretty much of this mind.

    The testing for Pirelli will not have had any direct bearing on tire wear in this race. There were even comments halfway through that it might be possible to do the race on a one-stopper, however, all the teams ended up on a virtual two-stopper (changing tires during the red flag) due to the way the safety car incidents played out.

    Mercedes always had Monaco to lose. They kept the strategy simple. Bunch up the field behind Lewis, force everyone to drive at their pace, and win.

    That sixteen cars were within a dozen seconds of the lead in the first stint and that Vettel got fastest lap at the end, two seconds faster than the lap time Nico had held him up at, (on the same tire strategy) showed how easily the leaders could keep the field bunched up, here.

    No voodoo. Just strategy.

    -

    But there's no denying that even without the tire data from Pirelli, Mercedes could have gathered data pertinent to car suspension set-up and aerodynamics on said tires during such a long testing session. While not likely applicable to Monaco, it does represent an advantage they can carry forward come Canada if the tires tested were to be introduced there.

    If they were invited by Pirelli instead of volunteering, I don't see how that would be their fault, but tire testing for 2014 really should be more transparent.

    -----

    Oh, and when I said if Grosjean had been in Chilton's shoes, he'd have gotten a one race ban? Next best thing... Grosjean gets a grid penalty for Canada for running Ricciardo off the road.

    http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2013/5/14609.html

    The more things change...
     
  22. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Promising for both, but maybe it's just me, I feel Lewis isn't all there and he knows it and thus is shouldering the blame. Or perhaps he has just become that humble after leaving McLaren. Either way I feel if Lewis can just get it together mentally he'll get his win and continue his streak of having a win each year in F1. Canada could be that win, the track is his playground over any other and I think if the car and track temps run cooler which seem the case usually, he'll be fine.
     
  23. CJdK112

    CJdK112

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    Grosjean has received a 10 place grid penalty for trying to mount Ricciardo's Toro Rosso. Kimi gets a reprimand from the stewards and can keep his point.
     
  24. Samus

    Samus

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    You know this is how conspiracy theories start. With those air quotes I assume you have evidence to the contrary?
     
  25. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    As much as I was hoping he did, it would seem he doesn't due to not getting back to me, you and others.

    Also from what Brawn has said, the tire were not tagged and thus they didn't know what tire was what, so I'm unsure how that could be good representative data as far a tire wear goes. Now I agree with Niky perhaps suspension setup data could be gathered, but be reflective of this race or even next race I doubt.
     
  26. CinnamonOD

    CinnamonOD

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  27. TheBook

    TheBook Premium

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    Massa's crash was caused by a car failure of some sort: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107707?source=mostpopular

     
  28. sems4arsenal

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    Thought it looked like something went wrong with the car.
     
  29. Centura

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  30. Samus

    Samus

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    Indeed, that reads as if the FIA didn't give final confirmation for it to take place. Of course Mercedes will argue otherwise. I don't see this being resolved very quickly.

    You do still have to wonder how this was "secret" though, 3 days at Barcelona and nobody from the FIA or any other team in F1 knew about until last week? Odd.

    Yeah as I posted further above Ant Davidson spotted something flailing around on the FL suspension just before the crash. Something seemingly failed.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013