2013 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada
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Dragonwhisky
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Was giving him the benefit of the doubt.
And that would be why Alonso and every other championship class driver are not driving Marussias and Caterhams. They'd be lucky to get into the points. There's absolutley no point to them "challenging" themselves in this fashion. The folks that use this word really mean for the driver to just lose, continiously.
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Based on the photos that were posted on Jalopnik the machine used and its operator will be found to be the reason this accident happened.The Cat TH255 Telehandler at first seemed to be good enough to do this simple job but after reviewing the specs it didnt have enough forward reach.The TH255 only has 10.83 ft of reach and with the jib attached another 6ft approx.The operator in order to prevent the car from swinging back into the Cat made the mistake of lifting it too high which put the ground crew into a dangerous spot.The machine should have had atleast double the amount of boom to keep the load far enough away to allow the driver to make an emergency stop and not have the load swing back into the machine.
Sadly the corner worker who was killed put himself in a bad spot and he paid the ultimate price.You never put yourself above the load.
Hopefully there is a criminal investigation into this matter since either the Cat operator wasnt properly trained and killed his crew member or the Grand Prix organizers in order to cut costs rented the cheapest machines they could find which were inadequate.Either way this accident was easily preventable and either money or poor training cost that guy his life.
Sadly the corner worker who was killed put himself in a bad spot and he paid the ultimate price.You never put yourself above the load.
Hopefully there is a criminal investigation into this matter since either the Cat operator wasnt properly trained and killed his crew member or the Grand Prix organizers in order to cut costs rented the cheapest machines they could find which were inadequate.Either way this accident was easily preventable and either money or poor training cost that guy his life.
- 10,828
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- bramturismo
- 4,887
- Los Angeles, Cali
- JoeTruckV8
I'm new to this F1 tread when do you guys close this 1, and open the next rds tread?
- 3,244
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- Shoe_67
Yes, a new thread for every race 👍
- 10,373
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- Ardius_
Race threads are not usually closed, they just naturally end as people move on with the discussion (most of the discussions that go on past a race weekend tend to get their own threads if they are major enough).
Usually the next race thread is started on the Monday or Tuesday before the race.
- 12,610
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The marshal incident is a very unfortunate event.
However, it wasn't like it was an accident that can only happen to marshals working at a circuit. People trip and get run over all the time all over the world. It just so happened that this time it was a track worker run over by a crane carrying an F1 car at a race track. Our thoughts are with the family.
However, it wasn't like it was an accident that can only happen to marshals working at a circuit. People trip and get run over all the time all over the world. It just so happened that this time it was a track worker run over by a crane carrying an F1 car at a race track. Our thoughts are with the family.
- 7,485
- East Midlands
- m8h3r
- 2,938
- Shrewsbury
- pezzarinho17
So glad I have Sky, David Coulthard is doing my head in just with his articles for the BBC, let alone given a microphone for 3+ hours!
Latest Red Bull Propaganda
He needs to stop working for one of the companies.
Latest Red Bull Propaganda
He needs to stop working for one of the companies.
BHRxRacer
(Banned)
- 1,214
Another boring race. More so than Monaco to be honest.
Drivers of the day: Alonso and Di Resta
Bad luck of the day: Rosberg, Raikkonen, Webber
Sutil's ruined his own race with the spin at the beginning but the penalty at the end was still harsh.
Regarding the Vettel hate, it's really simple. He's full of ****. It's bad enough he represents what the average man hates in life, his personality alone warrants an ass kicking to be honest. Before anyone jumps in and says I'm a hater, I give the guy credit when I think he's done well. See last GP's thread.
1) In our everyday life it usually seems that no matter how hard we work we'll never have what some others have been handed with little to no effort. Vettel reminds us of that. Maybe you always need a fast car to win in F1, but not for so many years running. It usually gets shuffled.
2) He's the most childish driver I've ever seen. At least Hamilton tries to be a man. That incident with Webber? The constant lies? Don't look too much back. Here's an article:
Vettel only concerned with safety
Contradictory to what he has been personally saying for weeks, now he's saying it's for safety. Anyone remembers "We're driving at the pace of the tyres" and "We're being punished for having a fast car"? I'm sorry but nobody likes a blatant liar. I know it's all about PR and politics but the way he's so obvious, and the number of times he does is just too much for me (and I guess others) to bear.
3) He almost only wins from pole. I seriously don't remember the last time he won from further down the grid and for god's sake he has more poles than wins. He's a Saturday driver that gets a good start on a Sunday then enjoys the free air while everyone behind him suffers from turbulence, traffic and fighting others.
PS: Yes, Senna also had more poles than wins. Completely different situations, don't bring that up.
Drivers of the day: Alonso and Di Resta
Bad luck of the day: Rosberg, Raikkonen, Webber
Sutil's ruined his own race with the spin at the beginning but the penalty at the end was still harsh.
Regarding the Vettel hate, it's really simple. He's full of ****. It's bad enough he represents what the average man hates in life, his personality alone warrants an ass kicking to be honest. Before anyone jumps in and says I'm a hater, I give the guy credit when I think he's done well. See last GP's thread.
1) In our everyday life it usually seems that no matter how hard we work we'll never have what some others have been handed with little to no effort. Vettel reminds us of that. Maybe you always need a fast car to win in F1, but not for so many years running. It usually gets shuffled.
2) He's the most childish driver I've ever seen. At least Hamilton tries to be a man. That incident with Webber? The constant lies? Don't look too much back. Here's an article:
Vettel only concerned with safety
Contradictory to what he has been personally saying for weeks, now he's saying it's for safety. Anyone remembers "We're driving at the pace of the tyres" and "We're being punished for having a fast car"? I'm sorry but nobody likes a blatant liar. I know it's all about PR and politics but the way he's so obvious, and the number of times he does is just too much for me (and I guess others) to bear.
3) He almost only wins from pole. I seriously don't remember the last time he won from further down the grid and for god's sake he has more poles than wins. He's a Saturday driver that gets a good start on a Sunday then enjoys the free air while everyone behind him suffers from turbulence, traffic and fighting others.
PS: Yes, Senna also had more poles than wins. Completely different situations, don't bring that up.
How is it even a challenge when you always have a car that leaves everyone in the dust? It's just a matter of time, no challenge here.
It's not fair to say that after 2010.
Go back to facebook where there's only a "like" button and stay away from the real world.
magpie1997
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- magpie1997
- My Xbox had RROD
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BHRxRacer
Nothing meant personally by this, but the man who hates the qualities of another, yet covets those exact same attributes for himself, is a rather despicable fellow. The average man wants his fame, fortune, lifestyle, opportunities, and trappings...yes, he's privileged and is arrogant, but there's few guys on the grid that don't have that same arrogance, but in different measures. The privilege comes from being talented in his craft, and everyone telling him so since he was a teenager.
There's a challenge in the moment he acquires pole position. It's not a gift from the organizers and race stewards. He out-drove everyone, and while not exciting, it's grand prix racing as it plays out on occasion...do a little research, and there's going to be wins like that, just as there's been every year.
You don't have to be a fan of a driver or call him a hero, but also you don't have to jump on everyone else's bandwagon, and make excuses later.
And yes, a rather meh race, from what we've had recently. Still, you had Alonso and Hamilton battle for a few laps. But they aren't all corkers...the problem is that while the ability to pass is there, the mechanism for re-passing a competitor is disappearing from tire wear and other conservation factors. And that's racing!
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BHRxRacer
(Banned)
- 1,214
I don't quite understand what you mean. What quality do I hate of Vettel and what do I covet? I can't speak for others but I don't want fame, fortune or lifestyle. I want things to be fair. If you're talking about life in general, yes it bothers me sometimes when I see people getting something they don't deserve while I have to work hard to get half of it, but I don't wish I'd get things handed to me either. I'd like to earn things, and I'd like others to earn it as well. There should be no free lunch. Not for others, and not for me.
If I was Vettel I'd have either moved to another team or retired after last season. At least so I can tell myself I'm actually the best, not the luckiest.
There are many other talented drivers that didn't have the chance. If you're fooling yourself into believing everyone in the world gets an equal opportunity to get into, and be successful in F1 then you need a wake up call.
He outdrove everyone in qualifying. With a better car(and conditions in this GP in particular). I'm talking about the race.
Excuses? I might've given the guy credit before when he drives a decent race, but I never said I liked him. It's not an excuse when you justify why you don't like someone and it's not a bandwagon if you have any solid reasons.
It's racing but it doesn't have to be this boring. The only thing keeping a lot of us from petitioning for a different tyre supplier is that some of the races are actually fun to watch. The problem with yesterday though, started in qualifying, with virtually no one qualifying in the right position. In the race itself, it would've helped to have a second detection zone for pit straight DRS. It seems too much to be able to use DRS for half the lap just because you were a second behind at the hairpin.
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Implying that someone has gotten to the very top of F1 with little to no effort is epically ridiculous.
Implying that his win came with little to no effort is also pretty unfair. If it really did come with no effort then he's a pretty talented guy, or in actuality he probably busted his nuts to do the best job he could, and really couldn't have achieved anymore without disobeying the team and banging in a fastest lap at the end of the race... what more could he have done to prove that he deserved the win?
Seriously, I'm no Vettel fan, but lets keep things in perspective.
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Nobody in their right mind thinks Vettel got a free lunch. Either that, or your just emphasizing what you already said. Life isn't always fair; some people get lucky and many people are unlucky. It's what you do with what you've got that makes all the difference. Anyhow, this is all opinion - nobody's really wrong, but I think you're justifying crappy behavior from fans only because we don't want it from drivers/politicians/celebrities/et cetera as well. Which isn't any more just, in my opinion.
If the race was a fix (1933 Tripoli GP, 2002 Austrian GP), then booing and feeling insulted is totally justified (although in the first case, no fans were aware). On the other hand, where does something like the 1981 Brazilian GP rank, whereby Reutemann refused to move over for Jones?
I would suggest that you put yourself in those shoes, even if only in deep thought, and see how virtuous you become. F1 and top-level sport is generally about gaining any advantage over anyone and anything that stands in your way. Oh, we'd like it to be fair - that balances out all the bad and unfair in this world - but to ignore that these guys are ruthless, not unlike most people in their paid endeavors...and if the dice roll the way we want, when it's our team/nation/favorite, then we casually ignore the size of David's sling in the fight against Goliath.
Like Senna? Or Prost? Or follow the money like Schumacher (who drove a high-mid-field team to glory)? Or do a Lauda with a team that paid him better but the car was semi-crap?
Look, history has shown that bolting from the championship winning team to a no-hoper doesn't pay off well in the end: Damon Hill to Arrows in 1997? Phil Hill and a bunch of Ferrari castaways go form their own laughable team in 1963? Or go form our own team? (It's worked with quite limited success if your name wasn't Jack Brabham.) It's a nice way to end your career, if the opportunity arises, but Sebastian isn't even 30 years old yet.
Usually, they get the opportunity to drive for Ferrari, if they're still good, that that settles it. Then the team bundles them out with some excuse in a few years' time. Alonso and Schuey have been the exceptions, and there's no doubt that the former is in the team (if not the car) he deserves. But nobody's telling Alonso to leave, unless there's a magical seat-swap between him and Vettel.
Would you leave steady employment for an untenable situation or for an employer that bungles things up? Doubtful.
See above.
Blah blah I hate Vettel, we get it. To recap:
Sounds like jealousy. Maybe you're not jealous, but others are. And some people put on a mask, dislike their enemies, stand in the shadows, and when the moment is right, become the monster they once feared; they really want what others' have. Let me guess, when other drivers do the same things, it's because they're smart drivers. If it's some young kid doing it: Bad. I don't see how booing him is justified because we all have to work our crummy jobs 10 years after our death. Or because life rolls crooked dice and the rules aren't always black-and-white; it's just a game, really. The best part about it is that there's another event.
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BHRxRacer
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May have been an extreme example, but the point remains that any top driver in his shoes would've done the same. I'm sure he's doing his best but many others would do just as well.
It's all about balance. Granting you the proposition that he is the best driver today. Is he sooooooooooooo much better than the likes of Raikonnen that he laps them so easily? That was just painful to watch.
Everyone knows life's unfair but we need an escape. We don't have to see evidence of it everywhere we go. It's like watching the bad guy win in an action film :/
How can you blame me or anyone for booing something that made us feel bad?
So what you're saying is, he should win another 5 titles and get hated more, and THEN try moving to a different team when he has nothing to lose? That's never going to prove anything. It'll make it worse.
He's won 3 already. Enough. Then again it's a part of his personality as you see with the whole fastest lap bit. He wants to erase every record in history and put his name up instead. Even if he deserves it, it's extremely childish. How small does your penis have to be? There's a difference between wanting to be the best, and wanting to be the only one.
I wouldn't use the word hate, and I wouldn't have said anything about Vettel had it not been for you guys complaining about the crowd. Just don't complain about others expressing their feelings, whether it's the crowd or people on the internet.
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I sort of agree. When I hear Hamilton complaining about Vettel having the faster car, though I agree, I feel like giving him an uppercut. I even said that most of the Schumacher hate in the paddock, if not all of, it is sheer jealousy.
Just don't expect the crowd not to boo. We don't get a weekend off of work to watch a race only to get reminded of it, you know?
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Drivers stay put until they're threatened or beaten at their own game. It's not a democratically-controlled process. One day, they're either bored, not paid enough, or not fast enough - that's what's always sparked a championship-winning driver to move to another team (well, other than death). Until someone else puts in a serious championship bid against Vettel, he's going to win again and again.
Alonso and Ferrari are the best chances for that; the team is trying, the car isn't really that good, the second driver (Massa) is barely challenging him, and occasionally Alonso makes silly mistakes (but, so does Vettel and everyone else).
Lotus are up-and-down each week. McLaren is fighting for 5th/6th place. Mercedes hangs on as long as they can until they realized they set up the car for the super-soft tires. After that, Force India is like a slower and less-talented version of Lotus.
That's like me asking for Caterham and Marussia to be better. It's not going to occur just because we want it to happen. (If anything, that's a more gut-wrenching and annoying situation to me; it's been over three years, guys!)
BHRxRacer
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Moving to another team after dying
I don't care what it takes to have him moved, slow down his car or speed up the others. I know it's not going to happen just because I want it to. However until something changes, don't expect me or the crowds not to boo. I'm just tired of seeing him so far ahead of others that I personally feel more worthy than he is.
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- Peasantslayer
Moving to another team after dying
I don't care what it takes to have him moved, slow down his car or speed up the others. I know it's not going to happen just because I want it to. However until something changes, don't expect me or the crowds not to boo. I'm just tired of seeing him so far ahead of others that I personally feel more worthy than he is.
It's the way he is miles ahead despite making mistakes, until I see someone that I know will be consistently competitive throughout a season in Webber's seat then I don't rate him like Alonso and Lewis. Still it was disappointing to see the boos.
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See, Schumacher bashing, I can get. Schumacher was an undoubtedly talented driver, who was a cheating-cheating-cheater. Even when he wasn't winning, he was a cheating cheater who cheated...
And Hamilton, too, had the cheek to bend the rules. To the point that they had to invent new rules to unbend them. But much as I saw many of the Hamiltonian penalties of his early years as witch-hunting, there was a grain of truth to it.
But Vettel? He's cheeky. But the worst thing I've ever seen him do is to ignore team orders and blitz Webber when both were ordered to turn the trims down. Otherwise, he's struck me as a fantastic hot-lapper with the same abilities as Hamilton or Alonso in pulling a magic lap out of his hat, and he's shown the ability to hold it over long stints, as well.
His race to hold off Nico Rosberg at the start of 2011 with a broken exhaust? Epic stuff. His pole lap against Lewis Hamilton in Canada, a Lewis who was so dominant in the rest of qualifyin? Epic stuff.
Lucky? Yes.
Best car? Heck, yes.
Deserves to be booed for being good? No.
And Hamilton, too, had the cheek to bend the rules. To the point that they had to invent new rules to unbend them. But much as I saw many of the Hamiltonian penalties of his early years as witch-hunting, there was a grain of truth to it.
But Vettel? He's cheeky. But the worst thing I've ever seen him do is to ignore team orders and blitz Webber when both were ordered to turn the trims down. Otherwise, he's struck me as a fantastic hot-lapper with the same abilities as Hamilton or Alonso in pulling a magic lap out of his hat, and he's shown the ability to hold it over long stints, as well.
His race to hold off Nico Rosberg at the start of 2011 with a broken exhaust? Epic stuff. His pole lap against Lewis Hamilton in Canada, a Lewis who was so dominant in the rest of qualifyin? Epic stuff.
Lucky? Yes.
Best car? Heck, yes.
Deserves to be booed for being good? No.
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- Small_Fryz
I'm curious if you have ever wanted to achieve something extradonary from life that is above 95 - 98% of people? Your comments suggest to me that you have never stepped up and have always been happy kicking around the midfield making up excuses as to why your not where you want to be.
I think you feel as if one can end up a triple world champion by just bouncing around and not paying attention to details.
Not only is Vettel a fast driver but he works very hard off the track with engineering and setup and testing, he takes time to talk to the team and build relationship etc, their is a reason why the team backs him and thats because he puts in so much effort to control as many varibles as possible, just like Senna did.
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- MattyMc1996
- Egg's box? £3.60.
And, in fairness after three world championships and many records broken you'd want to break as many records as possible before the dream ended.
And there was plenty of action throughout the race thanks to Di Resta, Alonso and a few others to keep the masses entertained.
And there was plenty of action throughout the race thanks to Di Resta, Alonso and a few others to keep the masses entertained.
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Just now noticed that BHRxRacer actually commented on Vettel's maturity by comparing him to Hamilton. Right. The guy who dumped his father-manager, went on an emo streak where pressures, girl troubles and management issues caused him to lose focus on racing, got fined for doing a burnout off-track, splashed cameramen with a jetski and brings a lapdog to the race.
I'm a big fan of Lewis's driving, and I'm glad his on-track shenanigans have settled down, but mature is perhaps not the best word for him.
I'm a big fan of Lewis's driving, and I'm glad his on-track shenanigans have settled down, but mature is perhaps not the best word for him.
- 7,113
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
Very interesting, I do like these litle details about racing. Thanks for sharing.
About this race, I enjoyed it. Without of course a battle for the lead (when I saw Vettel pulling out 2 seconds in the first lap alone I knew it was over) but from 2nd place to the back I watched a good race, with very interesting battles going on.
My quick notes:
1) Vettel - Commanding win, he was lucky in those silly mistakes and that's why I still don't think he is a completely matured driver. And that makes it all the better for him, because, if before his maturity he is already a triple world champion, I can only fear what will happen when he reaches an "Alonso" state of maturity and speed.
2) Alonso - Keeps being the overall best driver in the entire field (IMHO) and this race proved it yet again. Amazing race, amazing battles, the fact that he fought very close his entire race and overtook on track one RBR and both Mercedes is a testament to his quality. I don't consider myself a fan, I just watch with interest, but I give credit to where credit's due and in fact I regard Alonso as the F1 "primus inter pares" now. DOTD no doubt (would be Vettel of his race was flawless. As it wasn't, Alonso gets my vote).
3) Hamilton - A very good race from him, can hardly be blamed for losing 2nd to Alonso at the very end. I hope he settles now after a weekend of being the best Mercedes driver. I regard Lewis as top class driver, but something's missing, maybe he was WDC too soon and suffered from it.
4) Webber and Rosberg had underwhelming performances, when we compare them to what their team mates could extract from the car. Same could be said about Massa, of course, but I do think Massa had a fantastic race coming from the back so it's hard to judge.
5) Other notable performances were the ones from both FI drivers, especially Paul di Resta who did briliantly. Have to say I was gutted for Sutil, I couldn't believe he got a drive through. Hate these blue flag rules. I wonder where Sutil could have ended his race without his mistake (a very lucky moment there for him and many others) and the penalty he got.
6) A final word for Kimi. Maybe I'm drawing too much from a single race, but I do fear "Lotus" to fade out of the title race sooner than last year. Congrats on the 24th consecutive points finish, but he has nor reason to feel happy about what happened in Canada. Watching him get lapped was very strange and worrying.
About this forum allow me a few words. I'm really not liking the way some pointless discussions evolve. I can of course turn my head the other way and ignore it, but I do feel sad when a Formula One Grand Prix is discussed among fans of the sport and 80% of it is about hating or loving the personality of particular drivers. We can make fun of it all (Ham's dog, Vettel's finger, Alonso's samurai quotes, Button's balance quest, Kimi's one liners, etc etc) and we should in a light hearted way, but not like this, we're just an inch away from needing close moderation and that is sad in a supposedly adult F1 forum.
- 9,744
- Las Vegas UTC-8
- Wardez
- Wardez
Good point there at the end Hun for sure.
No matter what, guys will always try and have their say, coming in here to spill the dumbest comment or whatever, that's the sure thing. But what we're in control of is whether we acknowledge it or not and unfortunately a lot of guys seem to feel the need to pick out guys for what they're saying instead of actually being productive and contributing to the discussion, which is way more effective at shutting those guys out than saying things like, " : roll eyes : not another Vettel hater."
It's like, JEEZ, we know! No need to waste a post to point that out. Just ignore them and we'll all be better off. What also gets me is the guys that feel they need to "announce" that someone's going on an ignore list... wow, really? Oh man, just, wtf.
Sorry for going sort of off topic here.
Uhh...
uh.
I liked the way Alonso passed Hamilton and they brushed wheels.
Silverstone marshalls are planning a tribute to their fallen comrade in Canada:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/192221/1/silverstone_marshals_plan_tribute_to_fallen_comrade.html
No matter what, guys will always try and have their say, coming in here to spill the dumbest comment or whatever, that's the sure thing. But what we're in control of is whether we acknowledge it or not and unfortunately a lot of guys seem to feel the need to pick out guys for what they're saying instead of actually being productive and contributing to the discussion, which is way more effective at shutting those guys out than saying things like, " : roll eyes : not another Vettel hater."
It's like, JEEZ, we know! No need to waste a post to point that out. Just ignore them and we'll all be better off. What also gets me is the guys that feel they need to "announce" that someone's going on an ignore list... wow, really? Oh man, just, wtf.
Sorry for going sort of off topic here.
Uhh...
uh.
I liked the way Alonso passed Hamilton and they brushed wheels.
Silverstone marshalls are planning a tribute to their fallen comrade in Canada:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/192221/1/silverstone_marshals_plan_tribute_to_fallen_comrade.html
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